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Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:19 PM

New York Times propagandists exposed: Finally, the truth about Ukraine and Putin emerges

I usually don't read much at Salon, but a friend sent me this link to an article which I found interesting. It mentions some articles which have been posted here already, by John Mearsheimer, Stephen Cohen, and Katrina van den Heuvel, yet I hadn't read about the first commentator mentioned here:

New York Times propagandists exposed: Finally, the truth about Ukraine and Putin emerges
NATO was the aggressor and got Ukraine wrong. Many months later, the media has eventually figured out the truth
Patrick L. Smith

It has been a long and lonely winter defending the true version of events in Ukraine, but here comes the sun. We now have open acknowledgment in high places that Washington is indeed responsible for this mess, the prime mover, the “aggressor,” and finally this term is applied where it belongs. NATO, once again, is revealed as causing vastly more trouble than it has ever prevented.

(...)

We have had, in the last little while, significant analyses of the Ukraine crisis, each employing that method the State Department finds deadly: historical perspective. In a lengthy interview with Der Spiegel, the German newsmagazine, none other than Henry Kissinger takes Washington carefully but mercilessly to task. “Does one achieve a world order through chaos or through insight?” Dr. K. asks.

Here is one pertinent bit:

KISSINGER. … But if the West is honest with itself, it has to admit that there were mistakes on its side. The annexation of Crimea was not a move toward global conquest. It was not Hitler moving into Czechoslovakia.

(...)

SPIEGEL. What you’re saying is that the West has at least a kind of responsibility for the escalation?

KISSINGER. Yes, I am saying that. Europe and America did not understand the impact of these events, starting with the negotiations about Ukraine’s economic relations with the European Union and culminating in the demonstrations in Kiev. All these, and their impact, should have been the subject of a dialogue with Russia. This does not mean the Russian response was appropriate.

SALON

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Reply New York Times propagandists exposed: Finally, the truth about Ukraine and Putin emerges (Original post)
reorg Dec 2014 OP
bemildred Dec 2014 #1
bemildred Dec 2014 #2
reorg Dec 2014 #17
bemildred Dec 2014 #18
MattSh Dec 2014 #24
bemildred Dec 2014 #25
bemildred Dec 2014 #3
reorg Dec 2014 #20
bemildred Dec 2014 #21
bemildred Dec 2014 #4
bemildred Dec 2014 #5
bemildred Dec 2014 #6
bemildred Dec 2014 #7
bemildred Dec 2014 #11
bemildred Dec 2014 #16
bemildred Dec 2014 #8
bemildred Dec 2014 #9
bemildred Dec 2014 #10
reorg Dec 2014 #13
bemildred Dec 2014 #14
bemildred Dec 2014 #19
reorg Dec 2014 #22
bemildred Dec 2014 #23
Igel Dec 2014 #12
bemildred Dec 2014 #15
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #26
reorg Dec 2014 #27
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #28

Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:15 PM

1. Yep, time for another Ukraine thread. nt

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:16 PM

2. Russian Media Covers Ron Paul In Glory and Praise as Cold War Frosts Anew

For years, the Russian media has been presenting members of the US Congress as a bunch of old, corrupt millionaires who are nothing but Russophobes and poodles on the leash held by the global corporations. Senator John McCain, for example, deploying famous phrases like “Today we all are Georgians” and “now we all are Ukrainians,” never misses the opportunity to attach the KGB label when he pronounces the word “Putin.” He has become a household name in Russia and a symbol of a Russian-American “reset” that was never meant to be. According to the Russian media, most congressmen are crazy to the point that one has to be mentally ill even to listen to them.

But there is one good egg, a positive exception. Never mind that he is a former congressman. His name is Ron Paul and he has become a rising political star in Russia. Mr. Paul became a darling of the Russians back in March when in his interview to the USA Today he declared “Crimea secedes – so what?” In arguing that “self-determination is a centerpiece of international law,” Mr. Paul seemed to hit upon language that rang true to many Russians, writing in his op-ed, “What’s the big deal?”

Nowadays, he gives interviews to the Kremlin international mouthpiece RT, he has been quoted by major Russian newspapers and TV channels. He is a representative of the progressive America.

All because of Mr. Paul’s position on Resolution 758, passed by the House on December 4, which condemns the actions of the Russian Federation toward Georgia and Ukraine starting from the year of 2008 (a policy “of aggression against neighboring countries”). The 16-page Resolution that “nobody read” passed the House with a vote of 411 to 10, said Ron Paul in his interview with RT. The only people who read it were the 10 who voted “no.”

http://observer.com/2014/12/russian-media-covers-ron-paul-in-glory-and-praise-as-cold-war-frosts-anew/

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Response to bemildred (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:11 PM

17. Yes, apparently he compared the Congress resolution with

the "Iraq Liberation Act" of 1998 which was also sponsored by Republicans and unanimously agreed upon and which he said finally led to the invasion of Iraq. It is really a shame that only 5 Democrats (and the same number of Republicans) found it in themselves to disagree with that recklessly propagandistic piece of work, which among many other things calls for sending weapons to Ukraine and, needless to say, blames Russia first, for everything.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-resolution/758/text

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Response to reorg (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:20 PM

18. Mr Paul is a demagogue.

There is an argument going on in the US government over the merits of the interventionist policies we have pursued these last few decades. Paul is on the "isolationist" side, as I am, but he is not the guy you want arguing your case. The people in Congress are for the most part timid souls, and they generally tell you what they want you to think, rather than what they think, so you ought not pay too much attention to what they say anyway, but to how they vote when they make law.

When you take them in bunches, you can get a feel for how the herd is moving though. But for that Mr Paul is not the guy you want either.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 11, 2014, 06:28 AM

24. Well, if no one else is going to argue the case...

I'll guess we'll have to go with Ron Paul. And we may not have a few years for Congress to drop their timidity.

But on the plus side, 6 of the 10 that voted against are from the Deep South, a area that gets bashed often here on DU.

And the "liberal" Northeast? Not a single no vote.

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Response to MattSh (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 11, 2014, 06:55 AM

25. Yeah, it's not like you would think, is it?

We may not have a few years, indeed. Although given the current oil glut, we may limp along a while.

It is that populist split in the two major parties I keep an eye on. That is the thermometer I watch. The left-wing loonies and the wingnuts.

It is entirely possible we will go fill tilt Bozo here before this is over, given that our "leaders" are not up to the job of reform. It won't be the first time.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:18 PM

3. Merkel Party Tells Ukraine Critics to Complain to Putin

Ms Merkel has sounded more petulant this last week or so.

In open letter by former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and 68 others urging Germany to recognize Russia’s “legitimate” security needs is misguided, the parliamentary leader of the governing Christian Democrats said.

The letter, framed as a plea to German policy makers to help prevent war in Europe, “should have been sent to Moscow,” Volker Kauder, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union, said today.

“We’re not the ones who broke international law,” Kauder said in a speech at the CDU’s national convention in Cologne, Germany. “And if you believe that such letters can make Mr. Putin see reason, you’re deluded.”

Other signatories of the letter, published Dec. 5 in the German weekly Die Zeit, include industry lobbyist Eckhard Cordes, head of the BDI association’s eastern European branch; Horst Teltschik, who was former Chancellor Helmut Kohl’s national security adviser; and film director Wim Wenders.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-10/merkel-party-tells-ukraine-critics-to-complain-to-putin.html

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Response to bemildred (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:54 PM

20. These critics actually include the most accomplished "Merkel Party" members

and they are "Merkel Critics", not "Ukraine Critics" which has got to be the dumbest editorializing through headlines I have seen in a long time. It is true that Merkel doesn't seem to be willing to step out of line, something which would be out of character, anyway. Rumor has it that this attitude may have been formed in her early years when she was propaganda secretary in the GDR youth organization FDJ, or when, if this persistent rumor is true, she was a Stasi informer known as "IM Erika".



No, the CDU and SPD leaders currently employed are not really of the stature to stand for policies that could be interpreted as going against the interests of our "big friends". You need to look at those who are safely retired, such as the ones who signed the petition, to learn what they really know and what they really think.

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Response to reorg (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:32 PM

21. I'm not getting into Merkel, except:

It means "Merkel's Ukraine Critics", but the 2nd Merkel is omitted from the sentence.

She seemed to get annoyed and defensive when Putin cancelled South Stream.

She has not impressed me in this, I am reminded of the stories from a while back in which she said Putin is crazy. Aside from the stupidity of saying that, I wonder if she still thinks so?

I imagine they are bickering about money at this point, a lot.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:18 PM

4. The Propaganda War Over Crimea's Break From Ukraine

In the propaganda campaign being waged by the NATO countries and the government of Ukraine against Russia and in support of Kiev's war in the east of the country, the events in Crimea of the past nine months occupy a pivotal place.

The secession from Ukraine that followed the March 16 referendum vote in Crimea is the number one pretext to justify the war as well as NATO's rising aggression in Eastern Europe.

NATO began an eastward expansion 25 years ago at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. It has incorporated 11 new member countries (including eastern Germany) - 13 if Croatia and Albania are counted.

NATO might be upsetting the entire military and political balance of Europe by continuing to push eastward today in Ukraine, but the drumbeat of Western government and media propaganda claims the heightened tensions of this past year are all Russia's fault. Russia's supposed annexation of Crimea in March is the example par excellence that a new "Russian aggression," harkening back to Soviet Union times, is afoot. It must be stopped at all costs before Ukraine falls, too.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27891-the-propaganda-war-over-crimea-s-break-from-ukraine

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:19 PM

5. Russia will go to international court if Ukraine doesn't settle gas debt – Medvedev

Russia’s Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev says Moscow will take Ukraine to court if it fails to pay is gas debt. Even though the country is teetering on the brink of default he left the door open for possible negotiations.

An EU-mediated agreement in October says Ukraine owes Russia $3.1 billion for gas it has already bought, and it has to pay up by the end of the year.

“I think that we can reach an agreement, and there is always room for compromise,” the Russian Prime Minister said during an interview with domestic TV channels in Moscow.

“But if we can’t, there are already several lawsuits at the International Court of Arbitration in Stockholm, we’ll see them there.”

http://rt.com/business/213219-russia-ukraine-gas-stockholm/

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:20 PM

6. Ukraine ceasefire prolonged, attempts for new peace talks fail

Moscow (dpa) - Pro-Russian separatists and the Ukrainian government failed to agree on a new round of talks Wednesday, while a fresh ceasefire in eastern Ukraine was prolonged.

Former Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma, the government's envoy to the talks, said it was unclear why the separatists had refused Kiev's proposal to hold talks in the Belarusian capital Minsk on Tuesday.

"Let them show that they really want peace and not war, and that they fully control their armed formations," Kuchma told the Interfax Ukraine news agency.

The separatists retorted that Kuchma's comments only confirm that Kiev was not interested in obeying the Minsk peace accords reached in September.

http://www.dpa-international.com/news/international/ukraine-ceasefire-prolonged-attempts-for-new-peace-talks-fail-a-43555983.html

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:21 PM

7. Ukraine Seeks Bigger IMF Package as Bonds Slump to Record

Ukraine said it needs an expansion of a bailout program that’s keeping its economy afloat as bonds fell to a record and government forces continued to come under attack from pro-Russian separatists in the east.

Economy Minister Aivaras Abromavicius said yesterday it’s too early to say how much more aid Ukraine requires. The country may need to almost double its $17 billion emergency loan “within weeks” to avoid bankruptcy, the Financial Times reported, citing unidentified officials. Representatives from the International Monetary Fund arrived in Kiev this week to discuss further payments under the existing program and a possible expansion.

Concerns are growing that the government in Kiev will be unable to repay its debts as the months-long fighting in two breakaway regions takes its toll on Ukraine’s economy. The country’s credit-default swaps are the highest worldwide after Venezuela, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

“The financing which Ukraine needs is so large, and the Western financing likely on offer or available of much smaller size,” said Tim Ash, London-based chief emerging-market economist at Standard Bank Group Ltd.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-10/ukraine-seeks-bigger-imf-package-as-bonds-slump-to-record.html

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Response to bemildred (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:29 PM

11. EU leaders to pledge more Ukraine money, threaten Russia sanctions

BRUSSELS - The EU is prepared to inject more money into Ukraine and to impose further sanctions on Russia if need be, draft summit conclusions say.

The provisional text - agreed by EU states ambassadors’ on Monday (8 December) and seen by EUobserver - “congratulates Ukraine on its new government and welcomes its determination to carry out political and economic reforms”.

It says that following a recent EU aid payment of €500 million “the Union and its member states stand ready to further facilitate and support Ukraine's reform process”.

It notes the “situation in eastern Ukraine remains a strong concern” and urges both sides to implement the 5 September ceasefire accord.

http://euobserver.com/foreign/126855

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Response to bemildred (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:10 PM

16. U.S Lawmakers Set to Authorize New Financing for Ukraine

WASHINGTON--U.S. lawmakers are heading toward authorizing new aid for Ukraine that could unlock at least $1 billion in new financing for the country as its economic turmoil deepens from its standoff with Russia.

The new aid package comes as senior U.S. and European officials consider emergency financing to cover a growing hole in Kiev's budget.

The International Monetary Fund has warned that Ukraine needs roughly $15 billion through early 2016 in additional financing to keep the country's economy afloat. That is on top of the IMF's existing $17 billion bailout and around $15 billion already promised by the U.S., Europe and other international lenders.

Ukraine's economy is in a deep recession. Major factories and infrastructure, much of it in the war-ravaged east, are damaged or not operating. Kiev's budget is suffering from weak revenues and rising military costs. The country's devalued currency is wreaking havoc on its financial system and the central bank's reserves are at critically low levels.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/us-lawmakers-set-to-authorize-new-financing-for-ukraine-20141210-01187

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:23 PM

8. Australia could boost Ukrainian energy security with coal, uranium

Dec 11 (Reuters) - Australia could export coal and uranium to Ukraine to help ease Kiev's over reliance on Russian energy exports, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Thursday.

Russia has this year annexed Ukraine's Crimea peninsula and given support to separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine, driving relations between Moscow and the West to the lowest point since the Cold War.

Last month Russia suspended coal supplies to Ukraine, a blow to domestic energy suppliers who are struggling with a severe lack of raw fuel for power plants due to the conflict in the industrial east.

Abbott, who has been among the most vocal critics of Russian President Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine following the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 in July, proposed Australian commodities as a secure alternative.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/11/australia-ukraine-energy-idUSL3N0TV03K20141211?rpc=401

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:26 PM

9. Ukraine president pleads with Russia to withdraw

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko on Thursday pleaded with Russia to withdraw its troops from his country and close the border, saying it would lead to almost immediate peace.

His comments came as a day-old ceasefire that aims to end eight months of brutal war in the east of Ukraine largely held along the bloodied frontline on Wednesday.

But hopes of peace talks, due to start at the same time as the ceasefire, and the pulling back of heavy weaponry to create a 30-kilometre (20-mile) buffer zone remain in the balance.

Poroshenko, on a visit to Australia, said Russia must abide by a peace plan agreed in the Belarussian capital Minsk on September 5.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/ukraine-president-pleads-with-russia-to-withdraw/article/420173

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Response to bemildred (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:26 PM

10. . nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:59 PM

13. well, even the impertinent Congress resolution mentioned above makes the exception

that Russian troops can remain in Crimea, namely

those operating in strict accordance with its 1997 agreement on the
Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet Stationing on the Territory
of Ukraine;

while, of course, edging on Poroshenko to continue with his war against the Russian population.

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Response to reorg (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:02 PM

14. Resolutions in Congress generally are not worth a bucket of warm spit.

Like most of what the Congress does nowadays.

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Response to reorg (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:31 PM

19. "Insolent" is better than "impertinent", by the way.

Maduro in Venezuela got it right:

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro railed against the measure's "insolent imperialist sanctions" after it was passed by the Senate. Venezuela has accused the opposition of plotting with Washington to topple his government.


http://www.vagazette.com/news/sns-rt-us-venezuela-usa-sanctions-20141209,0,5482150.story

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Response to bemildred (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:33 PM

22. Well, I won't argue with a native speaker

or whoever translated Maduro's remark about "sanciones insolentes".

But I am not speaking from a position of authority, I'm only referring to the fact - which seems blatantly obvious to me - that many statements and allegations in this document are way out of bounds, not within the purview, possible knowledge or judgement of those who consented. Therefore "impertinente", "unverschämt" without being bold, just not pertinent if not completely off base.

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Response to reorg (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:42 PM

23. Good idea.

Translation is an art, and I am far from a native Spanish speaker, so I can't criticize the translation (insolente) as such, but in English "insolent" is more forceful than impertinent, so better when bloviating against ones enemies.

As for your other comment, bullshit rules the world, and especially the US congress, so why would this be different?

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Response to bemildred (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:40 PM

12. With part of the withdrawal being from Ukr territory

adjacent to the Crimea.

Khersons'ka oblast, near Strelkove (the "county" or oblast sort of wraps around the northern Crimea. There's what looks like a bulked up barrier island on the east side of the peninsula. Strelkove is a smallish berg, with a natural gas pipeline and pumping station just to the south, and the Russians apparently decided they wanted to control the area, whatever the original county boundaries were.)

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Response to Igel (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:04 PM

15. Hmm. Well, it wouldn't surprise me. nt

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Thu Dec 11, 2014, 11:17 AM

26. ...

 

KISSINGER. … But if the West is honest with itself, it has to admit that there were mistakes on its side. The annexation of Crimea was not a move toward global conquest. It was not Hitler moving into Czechoslovakia.

SPIEGEL. What was it then?

KISSINGER. One has to ask oneself this question: Putin spent tens of billions of dollars on the Winter Olympics in Sochi. The theme of the Olympics was that Russia is a progressive state tied to the West through its culture and, therefore, it presumably wants to be part of it. So it doesn’t make any sense that a week after the close of the Olympics, Putin would take Crimea and start a war over Ukraine. So one has to ask oneself, Why did it happen?

SPIEGEL. What you’re saying is that the West has at least a kind of responsibility for the escalation?

KISSINGER. Yes, I am saying that. Europe and America did not understand the impact of these events, starting with the negotiations about Ukraine’s economic relations with the European Union and culminating in the demonstrations in Kiev. All these, and their impact, should have been the subject of a dialogue with Russia. This does not mean the Russian response was appropriate.


NO, Spiegel! The follow up question is NOT "What you’re saying is that the West has at least a kind of responsibility for the escalation?
" ... The appropriate follow up question would be: "In your opinion, Why DID it happen?"

It really bugs me when journalists advance the interview; rather, than seek to clarify and/or (possibly) challenge what the interviewee is saying.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 02:26 PM

27. Didn't you read your own quotes?

He says quite clearly that it wasn't "a move towards global conquest" and that "Europe and America did not understand the impact of these events, starting with the negotiations about Ukraine's economic relations with the European Union and culminating in the demonstrations in Kiev. All these, and their impact, should have been the subject of a dialogue with Russia."

Such a dialogue had actually taken place before February 21 and led to the Agreement on the Settlement of Crisis in Ukraine, signed by Yanukovych, Klitschko, Tyahnybok, Yatsenyuk, the foreign ministers of Poland, Radosław Sikorski, and Germany, Frank-Walter Steinmeier und Eric Fournier, representative of the French ministry of foreign affairs - Laurent Fabius and Wladimir Lukin as representave of Russia had participated in the negotiations.

But immediately thereafter, a violent coup took place, the Ukrainian was constitution was violated and the West openly ACCEPTED this without further ado. There lies the responsibility of the West Kissinger is talking about. What is there not to understand? What needs to be clarified?

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Response to reorg (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:22 PM

28. Yes, I did ...

 

perhaps I'm weird, but I prefer journalists to allow interviewees to answer the questions they pose. That's the difference between reporting, and making, the news.

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