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Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:34 PM

Putin Cuts Off Gas Supply To Six European Countries Without Warning

Last edited Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:09 PM - Edit history (2)

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by NH Ethylene (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Forbes

Paul Roderick Gregory
1/18/2015 @ 4:03PM

On January 14, Vladimir Putin ordered Russia’s natural gas monopoly, Gazprom, to cut back by 60% the natural gas delivered to Europe through Ukraine. His ostensible reason: Ukraine was illegally siphoning off gas for its own use—a charge Ukraine denies. Overall Europe depends on Russia for 30% of its gas supplies, and some 80% of Europe’s Russian natural gas comes via Ukraine. Putin’s order would leave six countries in eastern and southeastern Europe totally without gas.

Gazprom announced that it will instead ship gas previously transiting Ukraine to the Greek-Turkish border via a Black-Sea underwater pipeline. Gazprom’s CEO brushed off European objections that it has no infrastructure to handle such shipments, stating that “We have informed our European partners, and now it is up to them to put in place the necessary infrastructure starting from the Turkish-Greek border.” In other words, Europe must undertake a massive infrastructure investment to replace a well-functioning transmission system, just for Putin’s convenience.

European Energy officials issued the following angry statement: “Without prior warning and in clear contradiction with the reassurances given by the highest Russian and Ukrainian authorities to the European Union, gas supplies to some EU member states have been substantially cut.”

Putin’s out-of-the-blue order went largely unnoticed due to the tragic events in Paris and Switzerland’s sudden decision to float its currency, but it prompted emergency negotiations between Gazprom and European energy officials.

Read more: http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2015/01/18/putin-cuts-off-gas-supply-to-six-european-countries-without-warning/



According to a poster below, FORBES fell for a hoax by Zero Hedge ... not sure I'm buying this, I very much doubt that the author Paul Roderick Gregory reads Zero Hedge, after all:

"THE AUTHOR is a member of the International Advisory Board of the Kiev School of Economics."


But the Daily Mirror article is definitely off, link removed.


Russia to Shift Ukraine Gas Transit to Turkey as EU Cries Foul
By Elena Mazneva Jan 14, 2015 8:46 PM GMT+0100

Russia plans to shift all its natural gas flows crossing Ukraine to a route via Turkey, a surprise move that the European Union’s energy chief said would hurt its reputation as a supplier.

...

Gazprom, the world’s biggest natural gas supplier, plans to send 63 billion cubic meters through a proposed link under the Black Sea to Turkey, fully replacing shipments via Ukraine, Chief Executive Officer Alexey Miller said during the discussions. About 40 percent of Russia’s gas exports to Europe and Turkey travel through Ukraine’s Soviet-era network.

...

After building and acquiring export pipelines, the company cut transit via Ukraine to about 62 billion cubic meters last year from 137 billion in 2004.

“Transit risks for European consumers on the territory of Ukraine remain,” Miller said in an e-mailed statement. “There are no other options” except for the planned Turkish Stream link, he said.

“We have informed our European partners, and now it is up to them to put in place the necessary infrastructure starting from the Turkish-Greek border,” Miller said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-to-shift-ukraine-gas-transit-to-turkey-as-eu-cries-foul.html


Gazprom warns EU to link to Turkey pipeline or lose Russian gas
January 15, 2015
BUSINESS RECORDER

Russia's Gazprom giant on Wednesday urged the European Union to link up to its planned energy pipeline to Turkey or lose the gas that now transits Ukraine. Gazprom chief Alexei Miller reminded the new European Commissioner for Energy Union, Maros Sefcovic that the South Stream project to deliver gas to Europe through Ukraine has been scrapped.

Hence, "the Turkish Stream is the only route along which 63 billion cubic metres of Russian gas can be supplied, which at present transit Ukraine. There are no other options," he said. As relations between the European Union and Russia sank to a new low since the Cold War over Moscow's role in the Ukraine conflict, President Vladimir Putin in December said the South Stream project had been scrapped. ...

http://www.brecorder.com/fuel-a-energy/193/1142492/


31 replies, 6624 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Putin Cuts Off Gas Supply To Six European Countries Without Warning (Original post)
reorg Jan 2015 OP
Hekate Jan 2015 #1
msongs Jan 2015 #2
DeSwiss Jan 2015 #19
djean111 Jan 2015 #3
Igel Jan 2015 #8
DeSwiss Jan 2015 #18
Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #13
djean111 Jan 2015 #14
jakeXT Jan 2015 #4
arcane1 Jan 2015 #5
CentralMass Jan 2015 #6
BeanMusical Jan 2015 #10
Duckhunter935 Jan 2015 #7
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #9
jakeXT Jan 2015 #11
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #12
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #15
reorg Jan 2015 #16
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #17
reorg Jan 2015 #20
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #22
reorg Jan 2015 #23
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #26
reorg Jan 2015 #29
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #31
progree Jan 2015 #25
progree Jan 2015 #24
reorg Jan 2015 #27
muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #28
progree Jan 2015 #30
progree Jan 2015 #21

Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:40 PM

1. KnR. Can hardly wait to read what DU's Putinistas have to say. nt

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:41 PM

2. good ol' vlad. contracts mean nothing to him nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:47 PM

19. Nor Ukraine.

 

- Otherwise they'd pay their bills.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:45 PM

3. Interesting. Of course, it was all fun and games, laughing as the Russian economy crumbled,

 

due to falling oil prices. As if Putin is the only person who lives in Russia.
Oh, I am not a Putinista, but did people really expect Putin to say Thank you sir, may I have another?
This is a dangerous game everyone is playing, and I think a lot of it is ego and jingoism. And money, of course.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:02 PM

8. This would make great sense.

If Europe was responsible for falling oil prices. It's not.

Although it may help shore up demand for oil. After all, if there's no gas then there's no gas and they'll have to import petroleum.

Ukraine's logical reaction will be to stop providing free natural gas to the Donbas. What gets in, at least. The perpetual shelling keeps rupturing delivery lines.


Putin's attitude is a very Russian thing. If your cow dies, the only fair thing is to make sure everybody else's kine die as well. (The opposite does not hold: If your herd suddenly expands, the only fair thing is to make sure everybody sees how great you are, but at least you can let them keep their cows.) It makes Rassiya seem powerful and strong and it'll play well at home--most Russians are a bit fuzzy on all that Europe stuff. It's "zagranitsa," hence wealthy but somehow undeservedly so because the geiropeitsy are just so inferior.

So the One True Put' is not amused and has decided "apres moi, le deluge." Good thing he wasn't around in 1991 with any great power.

Add to that, now he's really be pissed about the restoration of the status quo ante in Donetsk. The change from the Minsk agreement was fine, violations of the ceasefire by his lackeys were unnoticed, as long as it benefited his pups. But this is an unacceptable kind of violence, the wrong side benefits. Russians have rights, others have obligations.

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Response to Igel (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:29 PM

18. That would be US. n/t

 

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Response to djean111 (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:58 PM

13. Um, how is cutting his natural gas revenue going to help him?

 

Europe is not going to pay for gas it doesn't get, so Putin may hurt the EU in the short run, but he is making his own situation more dire as well.

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Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:03 PM

14. I think he is either just lashing out for spite, or else has cut a deal with China, perhaps?

 

I know Europe is not responsible for the oil prices, but Europe is the closest and easiest target.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:50 PM

4. There was one planned for Bulgaria

In other words, Europe must undertake a massive infrastructure investment to replace a well-functioning transmission system, just for Putin’s convenience.


EU Tells Bulgaria to Stop Work on Gazprom's South Stream Project
EU Warned Last Year That South Stream Couldn't Proceed Before it Complied With EU Legislation
http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-tells-bulgaria-to-stop-work-on-gazproms-south-stream-project-1401811829

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:52 PM

5. Seems like it should be easy enough to prove or disprove the siphoning charge, shouldn't it?

 

I assume that stuff is all metered and measured at both ends

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:53 PM

6. No gas delivery = no payment for gas delivery. it sounds like Putin is shooting himself

In the foot again.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:14 PM

10. First thing that crossed my mind.

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 05:56 PM

7. Putin must be pissed

 

his guys are getting pushed back by Ukraine

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:08 PM

9. The Daily Mail story is from 2009; the Forbes commentator has fallen for a recent hoax

that was started by Zero Hedge:

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6088524 for an explanation.

If you look at the Zero Hedge 'story', by teh last page the commenters has worked out it was false too: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-cuts-ukraine-gas-supply-6-european-countries?page=7

Please self-delete this OP. All that has happened is that Russia says it's going to build a new pipeline to Turkey, and ship the gas via that, at least 2 years in the future. The claim that gas has already been cut is completely false.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:21 PM

11. within 3 years

Russia has announced that it will stop supplying Europe directly with natural gas via pipelines that transit through Ukraine within three years, Russian news agencies reported last week.

http://news.yahoo.com/moscow-bluffing-redirecting-european-gas-supplies-173804362.html

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Response to jakeXT (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:32 PM

12. Ah - OK; this story put it as 'within 2 years'

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Response to reorg (Original post)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:10 PM

15. The Forbes writer based his piece solely on the Mail article; it's wrong, please self-delete

You know that:
The Czechs do not currently hold the EU presidency - that was in early 2009
Putin is not the Russian Prime Minister - that was in 2009
Israel is not in a current military action in Gaza - that was in 2009
No news sites are reporting this - that was in 2009

The author is, frankly, a fool. He has not checked with a news site about this. If you accept the Daily Mail article was from 2009, why leave up the 2009 headline from it, in LBN?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:21 PM

16. The headline is from FORBES

sorry, I have been repeatedly told that only Corporate News such as FORBES are accepted here as reliable ...

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Response to reorg (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:25 PM

17. The headline is FALSE

You've accepted that.

It's not a news story; it's commentary. It links, in its first sentence, to the Daily Mail story from 2009. You've accepted that. The writer is an idiot who didn't realise he was writing about a 6 year old story.

A false headline, from a commentary piece, does not belong on DU. The Forbes writer has got it badly wrong. He is a Corporate Idiot. That should not be taken as a reason to leave a false report in LBN. Please remove it. You can post the report about Russia saying it will build a new pipeline via Turkey in GD (it's not news - that was announced on the 14th).

Russia has not cut any gas supply.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:58 PM

20. posted under "World Affairs"

http://www.forbes.com/world-affairs/

by the most reliable Corporate News Media 'Forbes' author Paul Gregory:

I am a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, at Stanford, and the Cullen Professor of Economics at the University of Houston. I am also a research professor at the German Institute for Economic Research Berlin. My specialties are Russia and Comparative Economics, and I am adding China to my portfolio. I have written more than 20 books on economics, Russia and comparative economics. I blog at paulgregorysblog.blogspot.com.


Who are you to make the claim the headline is false?

I noticed that the undated article in the Daily Mirror which the author linked to is probably a few years old. I did not 'accept' that the headline is 'false' because I have no way of knowing outside of relying on the kind of media accepted here. I could cite RT which has a different take, but then my post would immediately disappear.

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Response to reorg (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:12 PM

22. I'm the person who has posted extensive evidence why it is false

The author has used the 2009 article for his headline, which is therefore false. The first paragraph also all come from the 2009 article. So that's false.

The 3rd paragraph is also false: that quote also comes from the 2009 article, and can also be seen here, in other 2009 articles:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/4141293/European-Union-protests-as-Russia-turns-off-gas.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7812860.stm
Here's the Czech EU presidency giving that quote, in 2009: http://www.vlada.cz/en/media-centrum/ocekavane-udalosti/presidency-and-commission-demand-that-gas-supplies-to-eu-be-restored-51275/

Forbes has fucked up. They will be apologising by Monday morning. I'm asking you to actually look at the evidence, and not start trying to excuse it with "oh, everyone says Forbes is reliable, so I'm going to ignore the evidence". By all means start a thread in GD saying "Forbes are useless". They deserve it. But don't leave a story you know is 6 years old in LBN. LBN is for news, not fuckups by Forbes commentators.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:18 PM

23. Look at the date

The story was posted today, oops, now it's gone ...

Guess we'll see if they apologise, I'm betting they won't.

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Response to reorg (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:25 PM

26. So, now that they've withdrawn the article, surely you're going to self-delete this thread?

It was clearly wrong. Forbes has realised that. Whether they have the decency to print an apology doesn't matter. It's not LBN.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:31 PM

29. you don't seem very concerned about the fact

that our 'reliable news media' are lying, only that it doesn't show in LBN on DU.

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Response to reorg (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:35 PM

31. because it's not LBN

As I said, a GD thread on "Forbes are useless" would be fine. I am 'concerned' that they screwed up - that's why I posted here saying it's wrong. Throughout this, it's been me who has tried to get an accurate story on DU - and on Forbes, because I emailed them to say it's wrong. And then they took it down. And I commented on Gregory's blog, to tell him he was wrong too:
http://paulgregorysblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/putin-rolls-dice-cuts-off-gas-to-six.html#comment-form

So, are you going to self-delete your OP that has been deleted from the Forbes site?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:23 PM

25. Please see #24, in particular "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own."

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Response to reorg (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:20 PM

24. It is not news, it is commentary

The Forbes piece is by Paul Roderick Gregory, Contributor and contains the disclaimer "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own."

Note the word Opinions. Sorry, commentary pieces do not belong in LBN, as you well know.

So Forbes doesn't stand by it. Nor does it help that the author, Gregory, "is a member of the International Advisory Board of the Kiev School of Economics."

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Response to progree (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:29 PM

27. this writer is writing one hitpiece after another

on Russia at Forbes, so it doesn't help to add a disclaimer, it's his forum. It also was not an opinion piece, even though he just pieced together information he took - without checking even for consistency - from various sources.

Forbes does no longer 'stand by it' since somebody must have informed them about the author's practices. Still, it took them several hours ...

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Response to reorg (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:31 PM

28. I told them about it, about 2 hours ago (nt)

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Response to reorg (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:33 PM

30. "It also was not an opinion piece" -- Yes it is. SOP alert sent.

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Response to reorg (Reply #16)