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Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:07 PM

Obama announces immigration overhaul shielding 4 million from deportation

Last edited Thu Nov 20, 2014, 09:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Washington Post

By David Nakamura, Robert Costa and David A. Fahrenthold November 20 at 6:17 PM

The Obama administration will begin accepting applications this spring from illegal immigrants who are seeking deferred deportations under President Obama’s new executive action program, and those who qualify will be granted protections for three years, administration officials said.

The officials unveiled new details of Obama’s plans ahead of his prime-time address on Thursday evening as the White House sought to portray his actions as an effort to ensure that the U.S. immigration system focuses on deporting the highest-priority immigrants, such as felons, gang members and recent border-crossers.

Obama is expected to say he will stop deportations for a certain group of illegal immigrants: parents whose children are already U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents. The protection would apply only to parents who have lived in the United States for five years or more.

There are about 3.7 million illegal immigrants who meet those criteria, according to a report from the Migration Policy Institute. Under Obama’s plan, some of them would also be able to apply for work permits, which now are available only to immigrants with legal status.

{snip}

According to prepared excerpts, Obama plans to say that mass deportation of the nation’s more than 11 million illegal immigrants “would be both impossible and contrary to our character.”

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-immigration-plan-will-shield-37-million-from-deportation/2014/11/20/3345d672-70dd-11e4-893f-86bd390a3340_story.html



ETA: Updating title to reflect WaPo's edits. Original article title: "Illegal immigrants can start applying for delayed deportations this spring"

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Reply Obama announces immigration overhaul shielding 4 million from deportation (Original post)
ucrdem Nov 2014 OP
Dawson Leery Nov 2014 #1
Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #2
ucrdem Nov 2014 #4
ucrdem Nov 2014 #3
candelista Nov 2014 #5
840high Nov 2014 #11
geek tragedy Nov 2014 #16
Cha Nov 2014 #23
Darb Nov 2014 #25
bravenak Nov 2014 #27
freshwest Nov 2014 #30
bravenak Nov 2014 #31
KT2000 Nov 2014 #32
freshwest Nov 2014 #33
pampango Nov 2014 #34
lunamagica Nov 2014 #6
humbled_opinion Nov 2014 #12
DLnyc Nov 2014 #15
humbled_opinion Nov 2014 #37
geek tragedy Nov 2014 #17
humbled_opinion Nov 2014 #38
pampango Nov 2014 #43
humbled_opinion Nov 2014 #44
pampango Nov 2014 #45
pampango Nov 2014 #35
humbled_opinion Nov 2014 #39
CullenBohannon Nov 2014 #7
freshwest Nov 2014 #8
candelista Nov 2014 #9
freshwest Nov 2014 #13
ucrdem Nov 2014 #14
freshwest Nov 2014 #22
geek tragedy Nov 2014 #19
Cha Nov 2014 #24
freshwest Nov 2014 #42
Martin Eden Nov 2014 #36
Name removed Nov 2014 #29
humbled_opinion Nov 2014 #40
Post removed Nov 2014 #10
geek tragedy Nov 2014 #18
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #20
Name removed Nov 2014 #28
humbled_opinion Nov 2014 #41
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #21
Darb Nov 2014 #26

Response to ucrdem (Original post)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:07 PM

1. k/r

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Response to ucrdem (Original post)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:10 PM

2. I like fighting mode confrontational Obama.

 

The other Obama, not so much.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:16 PM

4. It's a good speech so far

He does well when he's talking politics. Short too.

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Response to ucrdem (Original post)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:12 PM

3. WaPo: Almost half of all undocumented immigrants could gain protection

An estimated 3.7 million immigrant parents could gain temporary legal status if their child has been living in the U.S. for five or more years and is either a U.S. citizen or has legal resident status. Another 1.5 million immigrants could qualify for protection through age and residency expansions to the existing DACA program.

Aside from the 1.2 million young immigrants already eligible for protection under the existing DACA program, 6.2 million of the estimated 11.4 million undocumented immigrants would not qualify for protection under the current programs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/immigration-exec-order/

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Response to ucrdem (Original post)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:25 PM

5. Every increase in the labor pool drives down wages.

 

Especially for those worst off, including many Hispanic and African Americans.

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Response to candelista (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 09:15 PM

11. Totally agree with you.

 

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Response to candelista (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:39 PM

16. except these people are already in the labor pool. got any more dumb talking points? nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:31 PM

23. Indefatigable...

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:52 PM

25. Yeah right?

 

I question their concern.

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Response to candelista (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 12:03 AM

27. Paying sub minimum wage money hurts poor workers.

 

I'd rather compete with an immigrant for a decent paying job than to have him paid slave wages to do the job.
There should not be an under the table, sub starvation wage job market.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:26 AM

30. Some downthread call them the enemy who should be deported. Zero sum logic per Rush.

When Reagan granted a no strings attached amnesty, the real thing, our union opposed it. Then decided the best way to go was to organize them into unions until they were on parity with all other workers.

Some here don't mind the hypocrisy of leaving a lot of people in danger of being deported if they complain of bad working conditions or low wages. Or have notions that 11 million people will disappear with the drop of pen stroke.

They remind me of the 'Ship 'em back to Africa' crowd of the fifties and sixties. It just rubs me the wrong way.

Obama called the GOP out on their hypocrisy that the whole world sees and most of us know exists. He did the right thing, and that's what matters. Sad to see some not being able to handle this.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:33 AM

31. It so much easier to find an ememy than a solution.

 

I am weary of the bullshit and lies. America likes its slave labor. We always have. Who will we look down on if everyone gets citizenship? We may then have to statt fighting up instead of beating down those beneath us in the rungs of power.

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Response to candelista (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:06 AM

32. they are already working

so they are already part of the labor pool.
for example: Fields of fruits and vegetables have had to be plowed under when there are stricter rules and sweeps for illegal immigrants.
and" Illegals work forest jobs for less money. Other contractors have to meet their lower costs to get the job. This will put them on equal footing because they won't be able to work for less than minimum wage.

A lot of Americans have been benefitting from the illegal labor pool - household help, elder care, agricultural, etc. They will now have to pay at least minimum wage and meet labor standards.

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Response to candelista (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:04 AM

33. Slavery drove down the wages of freedmen, too. Why be for abolishing slavery then as a moral wrong,

and supporting its equivalent now in the way some immigrants are being treated now?

Did the freedmen after the Civil War argue to ship black people (who'd been born here, as their families were brought here long before the whites who complain the most with their Ellis Island view of history)?

They had as much right to this nation, even more so, if you want to go to longevity in this hemisphere, many of them like my family, before the Revolution. The ones messed with from Mexico, have a longer claim.

Who gets to say when the gates will be closed? Who has that right, when they were not brought her to do slave labor, or here before the USA was founded?

Change is a constant, and we cannot hold back time or go to a mythical America that didn't work for all.

I find those who are against immigration reform to not be acting like what I think an American is. For the most part we are all immigrants.

This nickel and diming of these people reflects poorly on the USA and doesn't really stand for anything but supporting a confused version of white supremacy, IMO.

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Response to candelista (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 06:45 AM

34. Is that why wages were so much lower in the 1960's than in the 1930's? There was an increase of 50%

in the US workforce.

In 1930 the US labor pool was 44 million people; in 1960 it was 65 million people. Were wages 'driven down' in those 30 years due to the increase in the labor pool?

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Response to ucrdem (Original post)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:31 PM

6. There isn't an increase, they are already here and working. nt

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 09:27 PM

12. Yeah as slaves

They are not in legal minimum wage jobs they get paid less than minimum wage, now they will have work permits and be in direct competition with other low skilled labors i.e., U.S. citizen minorities and young people.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:26 PM

15. With all due respect, wouldn't that push pay scales up?

If a large number of people here and working in the shadows now will get work permits, that means they can insist on higher wages, instead of being forced to accept the sub-standard wages in off-the-books jobs. Also, not fearing deportation, they can bring complaints for mistreatment including dangerous conditions, stealing of pay and so forth. So when a pool of people can demand better pay and better treatment, that makes it much harder for sub-standard employers to find people who will accept their sub-standard conditions. Thus, I would say, wages and conditions tend to improve, not decline.

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Response to DLnyc (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:18 PM

37. Yep and they will compete in this job market

won't hurt the white people but black unemployment is currently double that of the national average. So yes migrant workers who will get work permits will in fact take jobs from black citizens. This isn't going over well with me, the President should have included an EO about jobs...

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:40 PM

17. 1) that's not how things work; 2) you're advocating keeping them as slaves nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:22 PM

38. Yes it is and no I'm not...

Low skilled migrant workers right now do not compete with American citizens in the job market because they work off the books. Many poor and minority people also work off the books so that they can continue to collect some benefits and thus have a minimal existence. This move has created the conditions where 5 million people were just added to the job market they can apply to work at McDOnalds, Supermarkets, Walmart, etc jobs that young people and many minorities can find as their sole source of employment. This added competition without creating additional jobs hurts the African American community the most.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #38)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 07:07 AM

43. "Low skilled migrant workers right now do not compete with American citizens in the job market ..."

So dishwashers or landscapers or retail workers or dry wallers working "off the books" do not compete with those who are citizens or legal immigrants? I believe you will find many posters here who strongly believe that such completion does exist and has had a large impact on American citizens and legal immigrants.

Even if one accepted your rather unique economic theory, should we conclude that it is best to leave this large group of people untouched? Their "off the books" world really does not affect those of us who work in the "on the books" world? It would seem to be an uncaring society that would accept a large caste of people who live 'off the books' with no protection from and limited involvement with the mainstream society.

Many poor and minority people also work off the books so that they can continue to collect some benefits and thus have a minimal existence.

Which would imply that "low skilled migrant workers" and "many poor and minority people" all work "off the books" right now. Does that not mean that they compete with each other for "off the books" jobs? Or are there certain "off the books" jobs for 'migrant workers' and others for 'poor and minority Americans' so that they do not compete with each other?

If providing people here illegally with some measure of legalization so they can participate in society more fully and with less fear is not a liberal policy, what alternative do you propose that is more liberal?

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Response to pampango (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 11:03 AM

44. I am not debating the political principles of the policy

I am stating that in doing this the President has created more competition for already scarce jobs in the minority community. You do realize that unemployment among African Americans is double that of Whites i.e. over 10 percent. There needs to be policy that addresses this disparity i.e. a jobs plan or it will not work. Not doing anything is a strawman, of course something needed to be done but not sure this really solved anything at all, will see as we progress through the political response to it.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #44)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 02:48 PM

45. You posted that 'low skilled immigrants' are already competing with 'poor and minority people'.

Are you now contending that making these 'low skilled immigrants' legal and less exploitable makes them an even greater competitive threat? Although you don't recommend it doing nothing, that alternative would leave them "illegal" and represent less competition than making them 'legal'.

There needs to be policy that addresses this disparity ...

I heartily agree. It is needed regardless of our immigration policy. If congress ever passes an immigration law perhaps an aspect of it could deal with poor and minority unemployment. (I know, from the next republican congress we're going to get a provision reducing minority unemployment? We can dream, right?)

... of course something needed to be done but not sure this really solved anything at all ...

One option is doing nothing, you and I seem to agree that is not acceptable.
Another option is congress to work out their differences and pass comprehensive immigration reform. Most of us would prefer that but few of us see any change in republican refusal to even vote on it.
Another option is Obama's executive order which does something but not nearly as much as a law passed by Congress could do.
I share your belief that his EO "not ... really solve anything at all". I think that an EO cannot 'solve' a problems as complex as our immigration system. I hope and believe that the EO will be progress for some immigrants though very much remains to be done.

Do you have any particular policies regarding immigration that you think Obama should have included in his EO or that congress should consider in an immigration law if they ever get around to it?

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 07:06 AM

35. AFL-CIO: our broken immigration system has allowed employers to drive down wages and working

in our country. The brunt of the impact has been born by immigrant workers, who face the highest rates of wage theft, sexual harassment, and death and injury on the job. But our entire workforce suffers when we allow standards to erode as millions of workers struggle to support their families without the status to assert their rights.

Fixing our broken system in a way that is consistent with labor’s framework for comprehensive immigration reform will remain a core priority of the AFL-CIO, despite disgraceful setbacks in federal legislative efforts.

In the meantime, the president has clear legal authority to grant temporary relief to a broad class of workers, and we call upon him to act immediately to protect our American work standards. Employers must no longer be able to use the threat of deportation as a weapon to keep workers from asserting their rights or enforcing standards on the job.

Read our 10 Key Worker Protections through Executive Action.

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Response to pampango (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:25 PM

39. You know that would be great

If the majority of these newly added legal workers would get union jobs but that simply is not going to be the case. The vast majority will compete against the poor and minority citizens for jobs, sure they will be able to demand a living wage now in the construction trade where they were being abused for low wages and back breaking work but I think those business are going to find other under the table workers to fit the bill instead of paying the higher rates, we shall see...

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Response to ucrdem (Original post)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:31 PM

7. This could hurt

poor/low skilled workers.

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Response to CullenBohannon (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:43 PM

8. I don't think so. They decrease wages for all when they work under the table at lower wages.

When their wages go up because they will be on jobs with payroll taxes and work on the record it will improve wages for native workers.

With less low paid work, native will no longer be competing with those making below par. This was used against native born low wage workers.

The problem with illegal workers was that they drug down the cost of labor which victimizes all native born workers as well as themselves.

It's a win-win for all of those who want to get out of poverty.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 08:46 PM

9. That's ridiculous.

 

Any increase in the size of the labor pool has a tendency to drive down wages. If illegal workers drive wages down even more, the rational solution is to deport them.

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Response to candelista (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 09:57 PM

13. Try this out and tell me who's being ridiculous:



From the transcript:

Business owners who offer their workers good wages and benefits see the competition exploit undocumented immigrants by paying them far less.

As a long time union member, I saw what happened with Reagan and we thrashed out all of our thoughts on cheap labor. And illegal labor is always cheap labor.

And Deportation?

Now that's ridiculous. Open you mind and see what he's doing. He's not giving them as good a deal as Reagan did, no way in hell. And we know that Reagan didn't do it to benefit American workers. Like PATCO?

He's not giving them amnesty. Letting the way have been for years is defacto amnesty and has depressed American wages more than this will. Obama has the highest record of deportation of any POTUS.

As Obama says, do we want to continue to be hypocrites in regards to thesse people who have been here and bring down wages?

They'll be on the book and they will pay dearly for being here illegally. It's their dues they will be paying now. But now the bosses can no longer play with their lives.

When Reagan was in office, the game the employers played and have played since, was that if they asked for safe or decent working conditions or wages equal to American workers, they'd call the INS on them. That is government working FOR cheap labor and not for the American worker.

Give the video a listen, all of it, and then get back with me. I won't hold my breath as I don't think you want to be relieved of your negative views on this matter.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:11 PM

14. He's right about the border.

It's changed phenomenally in the last 6 years, and for the better. The last time I drove through the San Ysidro crossing the wait was an astonishing 10 minutes, astonishing because in bush time (and sometimes after, due to construction) it was typically an hour or two. And the agents were mean suckers too. Now they're actually starting to smile and chat like they used to before 9/11.

Thanks for posting this video fresh!!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 PM

22. You're welcome and thanks for the thread. I personally saw the game being played out by employers in

Texas in the Reagan era.

They kept the immigrants in a state of terror and it led to many bad things happening, it became a 'no-man's land' in some places because they were not accepted in society. Their only contact were the bosses who were treating them badly.

And the people who came across the border, despite propaganda put out by the RW, were NOT all uneducated menial labor types. I knew an entire family from Mexico with college degrees and had worked in the collapsing middle class.

They were no backwards in any way, politically, socially, etc. But since they couldn't get in line the way Obama is saying, they had to take whatever jobs they could get.

At minimum wage, tree cutting, housekeeping, cooking, whatever. So yes, that depressed that labor pool, which was never that big a deal.

As far as cutting into skilled labor jobs, the same thing applies. They worked for private firms that paid them almost nothing. If the firms had been forced to pay a good wage, there would have been competition for and the work force would be integrated.

In each case, it was the native employer who took the profits and they were given very little. That is what reduced the wages in those jobs, not the people hired.

There has been so much rejection of these folks that they have withdrawn to be with their own where they feel comfort. It hurt integration and kept the immigrant and native separate, distrust, disrespect and fear.

Obama is right, we must get past the hypocrisy. The fact that American employers have gone to Mexico to hire people to come to work illegally, should show where the problem is. That is why the GOP, the party of cheap and slave labor if they can get it, will say anything to stop true and just immigration reform as the way things are now is building their patrician society for them.

Obama is very careful in not insulting them, but they will still be furious. Because between the lines he's calling them out. And they need to come clean. They want to force a neo-feudalistic society upon us.

Thanks for the reply. Can you do me a favor if you get to see TELEMONDO's coverage?

I'd like to see their take..

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Response to candelista (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:57 PM

19. The rational thing for site admins would be to deport xenophobic wingnuts from DU nt

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:33 PM

24. Who just love Putin but always have some problem with Pres Obama.. It's puzzling :)

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Response to Cha (Reply #24)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 12:24 AM

42. And ratcheting up the personal attacks, with no links, because they'd be RW ones.

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Response to candelista (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 21, 2014, 07:09 AM

36. Obama's action will NOT increase the size of the labor pool

Additionally he's beefed up border security more than any other president, which decreases the growth of cheap labor.

Unless resources are greatly increased, it's impossible to deport all 11 million illegal immigrants. Obama will continue deportations, but prioritization is necessary so he's targeting the most undesirable (criminals, gang members, etc).

Meanwhile, those who are already in the labor force are getting paid very low wages -- which drives down wages overall and makes it difficult for above-board businesses to compete. Compared to the current status quo, Obama;'s action is an overall plus for the American worker.

I hope this addressed your concerns.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #8)


Response to freshwest (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:35 PM

40. That is a pollyana view of the job market

The only way for business to get a zero sum game from this is to increase their prices to consumers to offset the increase in wages to the newly legal workers, but I think they will simply find other sources of labor that remain cheap. There are very few union jobs what about all the newly minted legal workers that apply at walmart, Kmart, etc where no unions exist, they will be directly taking jobs from the poor and minority U.S. citizen community unless somehow The Presidents EO included some type of jobs bill? I didn't hear it if it did.

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Response to CullenBohannon (Reply #7)


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Response to Post removed (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:57 PM

20. Gee, maybe they should all organize together in unions or something.

 

It's harder to exploit workers who are legally protected.

And it's harder yet to exploit workers who are organized.

Other workers aren't the enemy.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #20)


Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:38 PM

41. Certainly that would help

but it isn't going to happen either, they will be applying at Walmart, Kmart, Dollar General, and a multitude of other non-union establishments and they will be in direct competition with the young and unskilled U.S. citizen workers.... I know this will take a long time to actually get implemented but I wouldn't hold my breath that the Congress is going to suddenly deal with anything that creates the conditions for those effected by the EO to gain citizenship.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:59 PM

21. A larger percentage of DUers sounded like you back when Bush tried to do immigration reform.

 

I'd like to think that's changed because we've learned some things along the way.

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Response to CullenBohannon (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:52 PM

26. Wrong.

 

Nice try though.

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