On the Run, Bin Laden Had 4 Children and 5 Houses, a Wife Says
Source: NY Times
Osama bin Laden spent nine years on the run in Pakistan after the Sept. 11 attacks, during which time he moved among five safe houses and fathered four children, at least two of whom were born in a government hospital, his youngest wife has told Pakistani investigators.
The testimony of Amal Ahmad Abdul Fateh, Bin Ladens 30-year-old wife, offers the most detailed account yet of life on the run for the Bin Laden family in the years preceding the American commando raid in May 2011 that killed the leader of Al Qaeda at the age of 54.
Her account is contained in a police report dated Jan. 19 that, as an account of that frantic period, contains manifest flaws: Ms. Fatehs words are paraphrased by a police officer, and there is noticeably little detail about the Pakistanis who helped her husband evade his American pursuers. Nevertheless, it raises more questions about how the worlds most wanted man managed to shunt his family between cities that span the breadth of Pakistan, apparently undetected and unmolested by the otherwise formidable security services.
Bin Ladens three widows are of great interest because they hold the answers to some of the questions that frustrated Western intelligence in the years after 2001. They are currently under house arrest in Islamabad, and their lawyer says he expects them and two adult children Bin Ladens daughters Maryam, 21, and Sumaya, 20 to be charged on Monday with breaking Pakistani immigration laws, which carries a possible five-year jail sentence.
Read more: www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/world/asia/on-run-bin-laden-had-4-children-and-5-houses-a-wife-says.html?pagewanted=all
MADem
(135,425 posts)Amazing how he moved so freely and easily within Pakistan. I'll bet that junior wife wishes she didn't have to live in the crappy basement in a house with the other more senior spouses--talk about fresh hell!
And perhaps the Pakistanis aren't so eager to rid themselves of US FMS and other aid as they claimed to be in the immediate aftermath of that raid--the article ends with a cooperative suggestion:
Ms. Fatehs account, if proven, suggests that American military forces came tantalizingly close to Bin Laden in late 2005. In October of that year, a giant earthquake struck northwestern Pakistan, killing at least 73,000 people. For weeks afterward, American Chinook helicopters, diverted from Afghanistan and carrying relief supplies, passed overhead on their way into the quake zone. Meanwhile, Pakistans military ruler, Pervez Musharraf, then a close ally of the Bush administration, repeatedly asserted that Bin Laden was sheltering across the border inside Afghanistan.
The Pakistani decision to prosecute the three wives and two children goes against an earlier recommendation from the police that they be deported to Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Pakistani analysts said that suggested that Pakistani intelligence may have hidden reasons for detaining the family. I think the government wants to hang on to them through a trial procedure so that the investigation can be completed, said Riffat Hussain, a defense analyst. And I think the Americans are quite keen to have access to Osamas wives, too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/world/asia/on-run-bin-laden-had-4-children-and-5-houses-a-wife-says.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
LetTimmySmoke
(1,202 posts)obey
(66 posts)n/t
Javaman
(62,521 posts)Bossy Monkey
(15,863 posts)Boy was I confused!
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)AtopTheRacismNow
(13 posts)Knew where he was, all the time. Probably.
hack89
(39,171 posts)brooklynite
(94,513 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)"Oh merciful Allah, send a drone to take me away from all this"
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)monitored and controlled by their husbands or other men who make and interpret most of the rules, laws, customs, etc, the men make the reproductive decisions (don't mean to edge off into the Taliban, or the Rick Santorum and radical right campaign here, but it can't be helped), their opportunities are limited even to the point of being denied basic reading and writing in their own country,
but they ARE held responsible enough for public humiliation and prison (sorry, I know, off into the RS,RR campaign again).
Sheesh.
We visited an Islamic mosque down the street a while back, they held an open house. I asked my wife to cover her head as a sign of respect to their beliefs, and she thought it was a good idea. (I don't believe in ghosts, but I do believe in respecting people who do until they try to invade my life).
Many of the women from the mosque (gotta say one thing for minority religions in this country - they often do community better than others, such as dinners and helping each other), were seated in the back rows after helping get food ready and kids under control. Their heads were covered, they were mostly quiet. After a man (active duty military) spoke he opened it up for questions, and a couple of the few white women showed their obvious disapproval, peppering the women in the back with questions, and the women patiently explained their beliefs, while the white women shook their heads and muttered their objections.
I do understand how women outside the mosque in this country might view this, and I happen to agree that there is some element of oppression in that opportunities to rise to the top of politics and wealth are not there for many, perhaps. But the women of the mosque were bright, alert, intelligent, educated, they drive and take care of their families and friends. I suspect they are as aware as anyone can be of this oppression. That said, I would love to have a neighborhood full of these folks, men and women, instead of the bigots around me. They explained to the visitors that they could sit up front if they desired, but they felt more comfortable with tradition (cue Fiddler on the Roof), and they have a right to their beliefs. I realize that the restrictions on freedom and their culture shape their thinking, maybe something like this, but it is a deeply held part of their religion as well, which makes it very problematic to treat them badly for not insisting on equal rights demand their rights without being JUST as disrespectful to them as the men are.
The white women's questions seemed pointedly mean, disrespectful, and rude, considering that these people had invited the neighborhood into their church. I hope they weren't attempting to convince or convert someone. That abrasive critical attitude is no way to make friends.
I am not sure if putting the women in the OP in prison is real justice. If they are building bombs or facilitating terrorism and a danger to others, of course. But not for sleeping with someone, even if they are a terrorist, or performing the duties of being a spouse (i.e., living with your partner)...or doing what they are told to do by someone who is a mass murderer, which is all I see above.
pitohui
(20,564 posts)if i choose to give aid and comfort and free fucks AND CHILDREN to a mass murderer, i am guilty of aiding/conspiracy to murder and that's as it should be
these women deserve life in prison/execution, they provided support to a mass murderer without which he couldn't have continued
on one hand you claim to believe you met muslim women who were bright and engaged and on the other hand you say that they have no choice, well, which is it? bright, engaged women are making a choice to support evil when they sell their asses for a free ride, yes, it's HARD to not be married (in pakistan or the usa for that matter, most women make most of their income by being married)...and yet, if my husband is a mass murderer, i don't just hang with him and give him babies if i'm a decent human being
they made a choice to sell themselves for money, and they decided to sell themselves to the rich millionaire mass murderer, instead of the cheesy pimp on the street...they were content to see others murdered and wars waged as long as they had an easy life
sorry, five years is way too short a sentence for women who supported a mass murderer for more than a decade (remember osama didn't start w 911)
either you think muslim women are grownups or you don't, nobody over the age of 9 or 10 should get a free pass on providing aid and comfort to a mass murderer in my view
believe it or not, women have brains, hearts, and a moral compass too...they made a choice to support evil and they must pay the consequences
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)All self-righteous and everything, just like on youtube. Everything is measured on a mythical culture rememberd from a couple hundred years ago based on freedoms that most people never saw, all black and white. Must be easy to get answers that way.
( I need a laughing sarcasm thingy)
On a more serious note, given that divorce for them can involve being ostracized from the whole of society, severe injury, or even death (stuck in a hole and hit with stones until your brain is beaten out of your head), it seems a little too easy to talk about their free choice as if they could just fall off at Kinkos and get the forms to fill out for $49.95.
Of course I never said they have no choice. I said I met bright, engaged Muslim women and their husbands and friends, and they are my neighbors. But in the writing above they are somewhat conflated with those that are associated with terrorists, and that's wrong. Big difference between here and Pakistan, even if they are Muslim. But perhaps that wasn't intentional.
But in the Santorum-inspired view espoused above the slave deserves what they get, the battered wife should have just walked off into the sunset if she knew what was good for her. Regardless of the constraints on their freedom or development? Seriously? The problem is just that the enslaved person needs to grow up, and then they can cast off their chains? No effect from culture, family, religion? That seems like an incredibly uniformed and corrosive of the human condition.
Remember the Harriet Tubman quote? Something like "I saved a thousand slaves, I could have saved a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves?" These people aren't slaves in the classic sense, perhaps, but they are oppressed in many ways not under their control.
In this context, especially in Pakistan and Afghanistan these women are often groomed as property from birth, deliberately held out of school, and given to a man when they are quite young, with little or no chance to ever develop any other kind of world view, and for damn sure not in a place with the freedoms that is the incubator called America. Experts who study behavior tell us an average adults psychology can be transformed in a fairly short time, becoming willing participants in what would have horrified them only weeks before. Imagine what you can do to someone if you start at birth and reinforce it with the culture and religion.
We have women in this country who leave abusive relationships every day, women who are bright, witty, engaged, well-educated, and in one of the richest countries in the world they wind up on the street and in some of the most tragic situations they can find. Many live with the abuse because they cannot fathom how to leave. Is it so hard to see the difference in a place where that act would get you killed or hurt no matter what your resources are?
Everyone certainly has a right to their opinion, so I am not stating that the one above is wrong, but I question if it is as informed as it could be, or very pragmatic. Seems like it would be more helpful to understand the influences on their behavior and look for ways to educate, rather than just throwing them away. At least better for our long-term future than being yet another bully.
ymmv