Bipartisan bill approves pipeline construction

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-EXCITE

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate supporters of the long-delayed Keystone XL pipeline have introduced legislation authorizing its immediate construction and say they expect the measure will come to a vote in the coming days.

The legislation was introduced by Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu (LAN'-droo) of Louisiana and Republican Sen. John Hoeven (HOH'-ven) of North Dakota.

In a statement, they said it has the support of all 45 Senate Republicans and 10 Democrats.

FULL short story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140501/senate-keystone_pipeline-a5e48168de.html

[villager]

1. More evidence that neither of the "two" parties will ever do anything substantial about

...climate change, oil addiction, etc.

Their owners won't let them.

[Laelth]

2. Vomit.

I get ill these days whenever I hear the word "bipartisan." It means the people are getting shafted.

-Laelth

[lunasun]

10. +1 !! exactly

[TheNutcracker]

51. With democrats like Mary, who needs republicans!

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. Yeah ...

Until it comes to Senate majorities, i.e., committee chairs and SCOTUS nominations.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. Sold down the river again.

The older I get, the more glad I'm likely to be dead before I get stuck living in a Mad Max style postapocalyptic desert, thanks to the greedheads who value money above actually having a planet worth living on. I pity people with children, and am glad I never bred. I'd hate to have sent somebody to live in the sort of future we're headed into.

[upaloopa]

5. You and me both

I say what you said almost daily. We were lucky to have know life before Reagan.
I turn 68 this month and don't feel I turned my back on my principals but all those Reagan Dems were the start of this fall.

[2naSalit]

15. Me three.

I'm a bit younger than 68 but I hope I don't get a whole lot older. And I'm glad I chose not to reproduce either.

Interestingly, I was thinking about Mad Max and Death Race 2,000 (I think it was 2000) as I drifted off to sleep this morning...

Lately I wonder, as I get up for the day, just what horrors will be going on out there... not liking this part of life. I am thankful I was here to see the world before Raygun too.

[upaloopa]

18. What gets to me at times is that people have

already taken the loss of the middle class as the norm.
I see the older cars at the auto parts stores were people are dumping oil into the motors that they can't pay to fix and can't afford to replace.
I see homes with five and six old cars parked on the street and the drive ways. Those homes have more than one household living there. I see people shopping at the thrift store as the main source of their clothing.
I don't know how this is going to turn around.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

20. Yup.

I drive a decades old beater truck that's held together mostly by rust, and I've spent a few years now working on my personal philosophy of life, to get to where the absence of most material possessions will be meaningless to me, so that I won't be miserable as I wind up with ever less. And I don't know where all these 'housing rebounds' are. The house I bought around the turn of the millennium is down something like 20% in value since I bought it, much less the 20% on top of that it lost since it hit its peak value a few years after I bought it. The upside is that I'm only a few years away from being mortgage-free.

[2naSalit]

21. That IS the norm

out here in the rural west touristland... except for the welfare ranchers and farmers. They show up with blinged out wife & kids, trucks and trailers full of new snowmobiles or ATVs,throwing C-notes down when buying smokes and beer, demanding kiss-ass service while treating you like shit. The rest of us live out of the food bank and clothing bank and drive around in whatever gets you from point A to point B... which is usually some go nowhere min. wage hellhole of a job.

[heaven05]

17. I'm 66 and that thought

crosses my mind more and more. I'm hoping I'm not 80 and watching MADMAX's roaming and killing. I don't wish the probable future on coming generations.

[bvar22]

4. It doesn't matter WHAT The Senate and The House do.

Obama Asserts He’s The Decider on Keystone XL Pipeline, Cites Risk to Drinking Water, Public Health

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x809952

[Divernan]

6. So who are the 10 faux Democratic senators? Story didn't id them.

[salib]

7. Is it this... non-binding and only an opportunity for red-state Dems to have cover?

http://lonelyconservative.com/2014/04/harry-reid-staging-phony-vote-on-keystone-pipeline/

[Laelth]

12. If so, good. n/t

-Laelth

[Samantha]

50. Yes, it would have no force of law as the article states so I believe this is a phony vote

Approval of this pipeline is an Executive Branch function, not a legislative one, so it does need President Obama's signature as well as two-thirds of the Senate approving it.

Sam

[RickFromMN]

8. Why don't they build a refinery in North Dakota?

Why don't they build a refinery in North Dakota?

How much does it cost to build a refinery?

How much does it cost to build the Keystone Pipeline?

I have the feeling the price difference isn't that great.

Don't they say they plan to keep the refined products in the United States?

Why do they have to build a pipeline all the way to the ocean?
Is it so they can easily ship the refined products overseas?

[Ash_F]

19. The last sentence is the answer. /nt

[kentauros]

24. As indicated, your last question is part of the answer.

The other is that refinery plants take time to build and add at least another billion to the cost. It was already a $7 billion project when they started, and before anyone had heard of it. All of the refineries they needed exist already here in Texas, so economically, it didn't make sense for them to build their own refinery. Also, shipping it out of Canada means dealing with all those problems winter causes in the Great White North, versus none of that on the Gulf Coast. That was probably the defining factor in building the pipeline other than cost because if your ships are frozen into place at their docks, that's product that isn't being shipped. Whereas, product constantly flowing through a pipeline and into refineries is product sold and paying for more of the same.

The amount of time it takes to build a new refinery is about two years (not including engineering/drafting time, which is also another two years), and that's the same amount of time for most pipeline-engineering projects to complete. Construction doesn't take as long, because it's a relatively simply process to weld, hydro-test, trench, and bury the pipeline. However, pipeline construction doesn't take place during the winter in the northern states and Canada because the ground is frozen solid.

TransCanada simply did not anticipate the fight that ensued countering them. If they had, they may well have built their own refineries and avoided almost all of the problems they've got now. They probably would have saved money, too. I don't know what the total cost of the pipeline is now, when you add on the delays and legal expenses. Construction materials probably won't go up in price as that would have already been order and manufactured.

Oh, as far as the price difference goes, mining the bitumen fields (oil or tar sands to the uninformed) wasn't either feasible or economically viable until the cost of a barrel of oil was high enough to justify the higher cost of mining and processing.

[Dragonfli]

26. The refined product is slated to be sold to China

[IronLionZion]

36. They are building small "modular" refineries, as technology has advanced.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/10/us-usa-bakken-refinery-idUSBRE9390CA20130410

It won't be nearly as big as the ones on the gulf coast, and is supposedly for local use diesel.

The article also lists some of the financial issues involved.

[TeeSell]

9. Politicians

Politicians don't have to live with the consequences of their actions so why shouldn't they vote for things like the Keystone Pipeline? The system is woefully rigged against the average American. And the average American doesn't care. They are disenfranchised because they choose to be. Then when the average guy gets burned by the actions of politicians elected by minorities the average guy screams like a wet cat and the Republicans blame the Democratic Party and the media publish it. Mary LAN'-droo sold her soul to keep her job. She is damaged goods. She can't be trusted. I would rather have a full blown tea party nut job in her seat so America can become so saturated with the foolishness of the Republican Party en mass the disinterested American is forced to become interested and head looks forward to the next election.

[modrepub]

11. Land Grab

Love how the party of government over-reach is going to pass something that lets private industry do the same thing. Wonder if any of the news orginazations will cover people who don't want to sell their land as they get it taken from them.

Oh yea, there's that pesky climate change thing but at east some of the energy companies have admitted there is such a thing (not that it matters).

[Ilsa]

13. I think this pipeline is a threat to national security.

Blowing it up, poisoning the water, would ruin lives and significant crop production and ranching.

[blkmusclmachine]

25. "Terrorism" just means DC can institute a preconceived agenda, and remove whatever rights we have

left (in "bi-partisan" fashion, of course!) ...

[Bandit]

14. Still five votes short if any Democrats decide to filibuster

We will see what Democrats are made of over this issue.

[Ash_F]

16. 10 Democrats that need to be primaried. /nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

23. New Post-ABC News poll: Keystone XL project overwhelmingly favored by Americans

New Post-ABC News poll: Keystone XL project overwhelmingly favored by Americans
By Juliet Eilperin and Scott Clement, Published: March 7

Americans support the idea of constructing the Keystone XL oil pipeline between Canada and the United States by a nearly 3 to 1 margin, with 65 percent saying it should be approved and 22 percent opposed, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

The findings also show that the public thinks the massive project, which aims to ship 830,000 barrels of oil a day from Alberta and the northern Great Plains to refineries on the Gulf Coast, will produce significant economic benefits. Eighty-five percent say the pipeline would create a significant number of jobs, with 62 percent saying they “strongly” believed that to be the case.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-post-abc-news-poll-keystone-xl-project-overwhelmingly-favored-by-americans/2014/03/06/d74c58c6-a4a1-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

[blkmusclmachine]

27. I can make up a report to say whatever you like. Just give me enough MONEY !!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. Like I said before, you're free to "unskew the polls" if you like.

[Ash_F]

39. You seem elated that 10 Democrats broke from their party help Republicans hurt this country. /nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. Elated? Please point it out.

[Ash_F]

43. If the poll said anything about providing jobs, or lowering gas prices, then it is a biased poll.

Because it will be leading the respondents with a false premise.


You brought it the poll up. If you want us to accept it as accurate then show us how it was conducted.

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. I provided a link. Do your own legwork.

[Ash_F]

45. ...and disregarded by everyone here. /nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. "Everyone"? My, my...feeling our omnipotence today, are we?

[Ash_F]

47. Everyone who posts

I am sure lurking freepers are with you on this.

[Tarheel_Dem]

48. Well alrighty then. You take care, mmmkay?

[kentauros]

28. It's too bad the 62-85% don't understand much about construction,

specifically with pipelines. The workers are transients. They follow the work across the country, and the construction companies don't hire inexperienced locals. They make a shitload of money, and like offshore oil-platform workers, tend to be excessively materialistic, going for the big-ass truck, huge house, bad-ass boat, and plenty of guns. This project isn't likely to create any new jobs that haven't already been accounted for by the various construction companies involved.

[Ash_F]

30. A quote

“I’m concerned about the environment, but we also use a lot of oil and we need to transport that oil,” said Laura Dabose, 54, a retiree in Palm City, Fla..

I would like to see how that poll was conducted. This sounds like someone who has been led on.

[Tarheel_Dem]

32. Well, you're certainly free to "unskew" the polls if you like, but all I have to go on is what's....

there in black & white.

[Ash_F]

37. Yes we all know that we can trust ABC. /nt

[cosmicone]

31. that is only as long as they aren't told the truth

Without a pipeline, the oil cannot be exported easily so prices drop domestically.

Once it can be exported, people will be at the mercy of OPEC and world-wide demand.

If people are told that their land and resources are being used while exposing them to pollution, to make them pay more money for gas, the support will evaporate.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. And you're certainly free to make that argument, but looks like you've got some catching up to do.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

41. of course Murkins participating in the poll favor it.

Because no one with a voice allowed on the M$$M airwaves talks about the environment, long-term consequences, etc. etc. etc.

Short-term gain. Desperate people trying to tread water need emergency $$ to survive for the next year. Who's looking 5 years down the road, let alone 7 generations.



Also, Overpopulation. Lotta people need lotta fuel and plastic.

[blkmusclmachine]

22. There'll be ZERO satisfaction coming from DC. The place was quietly bought off awhile ago, and the

99% don't have any voice there anymore.

[PeteSelman]

29. That's only 55. Don't they need 60?

I mean, any progressive legislation always needs sixty votes before any moves can be made, why would this be any different?

Any of the other 43 Democratic senators can put a silent hold on it, right?

[pampango]

35. Yeah, "Bipartisan". 100% of repubicans, 19% of Democrats. Both parties are the same.

Heard it before. Why is it that there are never any "bipartisan" bills with 100% Democratic and 19% republican support?

[Ash_F]

38. If 19% of Republicans ever failed to tow the party line, they would be gone quick.

The elite have power over both parties. Their power over the Republicans is just more complete than the Democrats.

[freshwest]

42. Since the lock-step GOP voted KOCH, we must support the 45 DEMOCRATS who did NOT.

That's what is GOOD about this story. What's bad is that the GOP will attempt to shut the government down or default to get this passed. The Koch Brothers see their prize close at hand now, state by state, total media control, an immature, ignorant populace and plenty of their boys in office already.

[hoosierlib]

49. Told you all it was coming...

Should have gotten something in return...