White House opens door to tolls on interstate highways, removing long-standing prohibition
Source: Washington Post
With pressure mounting to avert a transportation funding crisis this summer, the Obama administration Tuesday opened the door for states to collect tolls on interstate highways to raise revenue for roadway repairs.
The proposal, contained in a four-year, $302 billion White House transportation bill, would reverse a long-standing federal prohibition on most interstate tolling.
Though some older segments of the network notably the Pennsylvania and New Jersey turnpikes and Interstate 95 in Maryland and Virginia are toll roads, most of the 46,876-mile system has been toll-free.
We believe that this is an area where the states have to make their own decisions, said Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. We want to open the aperture, if you will, to allow more states to choose to make broader use of tolling, to have that option available.
Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html
disgusting
djean111
(14,255 posts)"While providing tolling as an option to states, the White House proposal relies on funding from a series of corporate tax reforms, most of them one-time revenue streams that would provide a four-year bridge to close the trust-fund deficit and permit $150 billion more in spending than the gas tax will bring in.
The corporate tax reform proposal has gotten a lukewarm reception even from Democrats in Congress, and Foxx emphasized that the administration is open to any counterproposal that wins bipartisan support."
Wonder if the tax reforms will be in this package if/when it is passed.
Can privatization be far behind, now that states can impose tolls? For some reason, I am picturing Rick Scott and Chris Christie dancing with glee at this news.
liberal N proud
(60,298 posts)If they allow all states to collect tolls on the interstate highways, I sure hope like hell they make one transponder that works across the nation.
dotymed
(5,610 posts)W's ex budget director and ex-CEO of Eli Lilly, "rented" those highways to a foreign interest on a 75 year contract. The people of Indiana allowed it. The state democratic legislature fought hard against it but the money won, as usual. BTW, Mitch Daniels first
official act as governor was to force all state employees out of their Union.
Prior to this, Indiana had a long history of Democratic governors. I lived there at the time. I had never seen so much money spent on any election prior to that. In Indiana if you have Eli Lilly backing you, you win.
LiberalFighter
(50,477 posts)liberal N proud
(60,298 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)it isn't a good idea to open up new avenues to tax people using roads while letting the extremely wealthy slide.
LiberalFighter
(50,477 posts)Even if the rich were able to avoid using roads altogether they would still benefit from highways and other venues requiring motor vehicles. They need their employees or employees of companies they have an investment to have the ability to get to work. Likewise, to deliver raw goods to their place of business and ship them out.
aggiesal
(8,863 posts)newfie11
(8,159 posts)Peons must pay for the commons but the rich get the honor of buying the politicians.
Wonder what comes next?
CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)Every last fucking dime, they want it all.
Unbelievable greed.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)And the guy we voted for keeps handing it over to them.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I hear you can get chains in different designer fashions. That's pretty much where all of this is headed.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Your choice, have correct change and wait in line or virtual "Papers, please"
deutsey
(20,166 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)It won't be near as much fun being the 2nd Best Republican President Ever.
The Groupie Chicks don't hang around 2nd Best.
GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)In the Shining City On the Hill. Thanks America!
RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Mondavi
(176 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)Not the "older segment" they are misleading people about. And it can, indeed, be bypassed.
Everything is a grift. Next, they'll sell off the rights to the interstate tolls for cents on the dollar to a multinational corp. The states have already done this.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Never have understood when they say it is not allowed. It is everywhere i drive.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)States are barred from tolling federal interstates now except if the money is used to add lanes or otherwise increase capacity, or if the highways have had tolls dating back to before the federal interstate highway program was launched in 1956.
http://blog.chron.com/thehighwayman/2014/04/loosening-toll-limits-could-improve-roads-at-a-price/
greatauntoftriplets
(175,691 posts)That said, they are pretty much always under construction with improvements being made. Open-road toll gates mean there's no slowdown as long as you have a transponder.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Oklahoma built those segments on its own, only later were they added to the Federal Highway System.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)The federal interstate system is paid for by my state and federal taxes. I believe the federal government stands for a substantial part of work on the interstate system on some kind of a share with the states.
Already here in Georgia they have established tolls to use the HOV lane in some areas around Atlanta.
This is really making our federal interstate highways a pay-to-go system. I am already paying federal and state income taxes as well fuel taxes.
Under a toll system the rich driving their $100K Porsches on their way to their job that pays them $250K a year with all of their cheese tax loopholes pay, axle for axle, the same toll as the poor person driving their 1997 Toyota Corolla with 250K miles on it on their way to a job paying the minimum wage.
What is fair about this system?
raccoon
(31,088 posts)seabeckind
(1,957 posts)Supersedeas
(20,630 posts)on top of the income taxes that we pay to support these programs.
groundloop
(11,486 posts)OK DU, so instead of getting all up in arms and threatening not to vote in the next election and all that let's get all up in arms and contact the DOT or whomever and explain to them why this is a bad idea and that we'd rather see a small increase in the gas tax or whatever.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)People are also paying less gas taxes because of the higher fuel efficiency cars. When the driving public finally switches over to all electric or some other non-gasoline vehicle, road repairs will still need to be made.
dotymed
(5,610 posts)WHY should there be another increase on the gas tax?
REPEAL THE BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY. Return our income taxes to a Progressive tax. The poor should not shoulder the burden of our highway system. The wealthy make up a small percentage of our population. Because we have "the best democracy that money can buy", we, the underprivileged will be paying a huge percentage of the "tolls" collected. The wealthy can afford it and their
transportation companies do the most harm to our roads.
I miss the "old DU" where people actually protested the inequalities in "our" government. Now, most seem to be brainwashed into believing it is fair to be disproportionately raped.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)and if we had a court that knew what justice was, we could win.
4dsc
(5,787 posts)Just say no to more regressive taxation schemes.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)klook
(12,134 posts)I honestly thought this was a joke in response to the recent Net Neutrality news.
Didn't we all already pay for the interstate highways??
Enrique
(27,461 posts)Lars39
(26,093 posts)Fucking disgraceful. Tax the goddammed rich for what they owe.
Nitram
(22,663 posts)I'd rather pay the toll in taxes than pay to set u pa vast system of toll booths that will slow traffic down at every entrance and exit.
perdita9
(1,142 posts)That'd be another way to pay for road repair.
perdita9
(1,142 posts)And our infrastructure needs to be maintained.
We've got to pay for it somehow and Congress cares more about getting reelected than responsible governing.
Atman
(31,464 posts)Of course roads cost money. Have you tried to drive through Florida? There are tolls in the middle of nowhere, not associated with major exits, just a place to stop you on the highway and extort money for privately owned roads. They spends tens of millions of dollars constructing massive toll plazas, when the money could be used for actually fixing the roads! Close the damned loopholes for billionaires, re-institute a fair tax structure. EVERYTHING is put on the backs of the people who can least afford it. This country is fucked up.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)As per my previous post. The rich person will drive their $100K Porsche to their job making $250K. They can take advantage of tax deductions and other loopholes to avoid serious contribution. The poor person driving their 1997 Corolla that has 250K miles on it to a minimum wage job. They pay the same toll. Is that fair?
If we had decent public transportation the poor person could avoid the toll "tax" by using that. But that only works in a minority of major U.S. metropolitan areas. If you live and/or work anywhere outside of the "core" metro Atlanta area, public transportation is not a viable option.
But I am absolutely opposed to a "flat" toll charge that is the same for the rich and the poor when we do not invest and make other options available to the poor.
At one time the gas tax probably approximated usage. But improvements in fuel economy and the introduction of hybrid and all electric vehicles eliminate that direct correlation.
Taxing on miles driven is one option where annually at time of registration miles driven over the past year are calculated and billed by state taxing authorities. Tax rate would be based on mileage and the type/weight/use of the vehicle. States would then share the tax revenue with the federal government.
But that doesn't account for non-resident drivers. I would suspect there are more cars registered in Maine that drive on Georgia highways than the opposite. So that creates a challenge in ensuring that usage is taxed and revenues remanded to those that incur the cost of building and maintaining the highways.
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)Instead of using cost to shift the public's opinion and thereby improve the quality of life in positive changes, the "cost" turns into a profit scheme and we're forced into a negative method that nobody likes.
Example: where I used to live Seattle was a ferry ride away. Politically there was a goal to encourage walk-on passengers and thereby reduce the overall cost. But the parking areas near the terminal were treated like a cash cow, privatized and then subsidized. It turned out that paying for the parking and then having to deal with the lack of transportation on the other side made it much more cost effective on a personal levelto take 2 tons of steel with you.
Instead of treating the problem as a whole and looking at each piece as just a factor....
Parking in my current city is another example. Instead of using the parking as a means to encourage non-commuters like me, to use facilities, it's treated as a privatized money scheme. So I don't spend a nice lunch at the local artsy area and instead go to the suburban insult on the senses where the parking is convenient...and I need to exit one parking lot, use a highway, and go 3 blocks to the next parking lot, waiting on multiple traffic lights ...
In this case increasing tolls and using that as a means to get people to start looking for alternatives -- or at least see the actual costs...
underpants
(182,271 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Obama is SUCH a socialist isn't he?!?!
kysrsoze
(6,010 posts)Apparently not. With the exception of ACA and some small first-term victories, I'm seeing little to distinguish him from Republicans. This dovetails nicely with his FCC appointment's gutting of Net Neutrality. I'm sure Keystone XL approval is just a matter of time.
Would we expect anything different from such an admirer of Reagan?
sendero
(28,552 posts).... the Republicans (fast death) are soooo0000OOOO much better than the Democrats (death by a thousand cuts).
Blanks
(4,835 posts)They have some kind of toll system where they take it out of the bank (your bank) or something.
I was there a couple months ago and it was all tore up and there were all these signs saying how much it cost, but they had no toll booths.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)If you don't have a toll tag they run your license plate and send a bill to your house and you are also paying more per toll. Otherwise, you get a tolltag. You select how much you want to put on it, and when you use that up it charges whatever you've set up (mine is to my debit card) and fills back up. You can monitor the tolls you're being charged on the website.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)The end of net neutrality will take away free internet roads while this will take away free driving roads. We are screwed on land and by air.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)They have plenty to spare.
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)If we ever get a true Progressive in the White House we can ask him, "Mr. President, tear down those toll booths!
heaven05
(18,124 posts)out of our pockets. When will this pilfering end?
CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)People I talk to do not know or care about these issues. TPTB have us where they want us. We are either working three jobs to keep from going over the cliff or we're comfy enough to not rock the boat. My husband works in an environment where two bullies are allowed to terrorize the department & no one will say a thing because everyone is in fear of losing their jobs. This is the kind of America the rich want.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)I was forced to retire because of bullies and this IS america now and the power that the well to do, bankers and corporations have. This mentality is even in the government sector. Took a thousand dollar pay cut, lost my house and everything thing that went with it. America the beautiful my ass.
CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)Might makes right. I don't remember things being so mean when I was younger.
I am so sorry for your misfortune. I wish I had more to offer than words.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)your empathy is sincerely felt. It really wasn't so mean when decades ago community meant something. I mean mean people have always been here but not so damn many as seems today. It's cold out here.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)The messaging here is pervasively sick and punitive and vicious, and you don't realize it until you talk to people from somewhere else.
Thank you for this post.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Before this country completely implodes.
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)I'm sure if we scrape off the opposition label to this proposal we'd find a fossil fuel guy underneath. Gotta make sure the junkies don't run into anything which might cut down on their "need".
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)In another thread on DU there's a discussion of the possibility of Reid doing a vote on the pipeline.
There's also a thread on the Bakken shale.
The bulk of the means for outsourcing our manufacturing is facilitated by the highway systems and the ease with which a single, very inefficient vehicle can transport goods.
These systems are a direct support of the current paradigm. A paradigm that is becoming increasingly expensive and is straining its capabilities. Just like air travel. In effect we are feeding the monster that is consuming us.
Maybe it's time to think about it and try to find a solution instead of hiding behind a false equivalency. If we make the system more efficient and get the commuter and long haul overhead solved, it'll open up the system so we won't have to deal with a crisis down the road.
Now is it time?
Personally I don't like the idea that my tax dollars are used to support a walmart distribution center out in the middle of nowhere and in doing so put the local business guy out of business.
CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)adirondacker
(2,921 posts)CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)Alkene
(752 posts)Got anything else I can't afford on my minimum wage salary?
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)This regressive shit has got to stop, ffs.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Spare the rich, clobber grandma...
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Probably a good idea (I guess) to require some of those toll fees to come back to our Federal Gov.
We already give the states Federal money to care for the Federal funded built roads.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Why is a Democratic administration putting even more load on the little person? Just tax the millions of millionaires already!
Lasher
(27,497 posts)And what has he done with the man I voted for?
think
(11,641 posts)for their military security overseas?
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)They really need to do something better than tolls.
Ridiculous.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)They had to buy it back.
Seems there were alternate routes that didn''t take that much longer, so no one was using the toll road, and the builder was losing money merely maintaining it. He said to hell with it and wanted to give it back to the city. They paid him a nominal sum so that he could not later sue, and it now is a toll free route.
Someone, it seems to me, should have pointed out before hand, "Hey, I-905 is not that far away and it's free."
progressoid
(49,824 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)I've been saying it for years, and hearing all the reasons in the world we "can't" do it. Yes, I know we can't telecommute in-person, hands-on work, like service jobs. And I'm not even suggesting that.
A large majority of your average cubicle, and office desk-jobs can be done from home. If your boss is so insecure about micro-managing you that you must be physically visible, then go with small satellite offices close to the homes of some workers. Keep commute times to under fifteen minutes or less.
And I don't count on the feds to push this idea, even though they do have a website for just for their employees to do it. (Anyone even aware of this? I only discovered it looking for telecommuting info. And yet, it's rarely mentioned, if at all.)
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)according to a paper recently published in the journal Economics Of Transportation.
http://www.baconsrebellion.com/2014/02/how-to-get-trucks-to-pay-their-fair-share-for-road-maintenance.html
Will trucking companies and corporations engaged in commerce pay tolls in proportion to the infrastructure damage they cause? Even then, they'll just pass the costs on to the consumer, who can't pass on his toll costs by requiring a salary increase.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)do pay their fair share and then some. Each state extracts road use taxes based on miles traveled and fuel used along with weight assessments. Then they also pay a fuel tax by the quarter year AND additionally at the pump when they buy fuel in each state. Some states also charge a tax for fuel used while traveling in the state whether you bought it there or not. Then there are the federal taxes... ever wonder why semis have so many stickers in the shapes of states on the doors and then a license plate that has a bunch of little registration-looking stickers? And then there are the operating costs, and per axle tolls in NJ, NY, OH, IN, OK, IL... and all the other toll roads and bridges in the lower 48.
The corporate operations, very large fleets, get breaks on these taxes and tolls while the small fleets and owner operators often earn - after all the taxes, ins. and loan payments - what might amount to minimum wage. And that doesn't even start to account for the phone rates, occasional motels, showers and food, oil, tires and safety equipment.
The corporate loopholes amount to yet another facet of corporate welfare. That we the little people should pay additionally by way of tolls is BS... we deserve better!
Vote this year and get the red out of our Congress!!!
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)and the article it references states what you have stated, that trucks pay fuel taxes already and pay more than car users. But that they pay an infinitessimal amount compared to the damage they cause. It even cites a government study that a truck causes up to 10,000 times more infrastructure damage than a car does.
I agree with the people here in this thread who don't want any tolls, neither for trucks nor cars. But if the government is going to charge tolls for the repair of infrastructure, then I think commercial interests who profit from federal highways must pay their fair share. And while trucks already pay more than cars, I put my faith in the experts who claim that trucks pay just a very, very small amount in higher taxes than the damage they cause, which accounts for most of the infrastructure damage to roads and bridges.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)should apply to shippers and receivers whose freight weight is the actual culprit and therefore, a corporate expense that is shifted to us, yet again, since they are the beneficiaries (receive profits) of the road system... larger fleets should pay more not less.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)because the commercial interests will always pass on the costs to the public anyway. Everyone benefits from the roads and everyone should bear the cost.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)will not cover the bulk of the costs... the corporations should be TAXED commensurate with their use and benefit from infrastructure that we paid for already. They make greater use from it for profit so they should be footing the bill for maintenance.
yellowcanine
(35,692 posts)Start factoring in the cost of transportation when choosing where and what to buy.
Tolls are part of the true cost of the goods which are transported on roads. This will even things out a bit - though the subsidies still will favor the road transport.
NickB79
(19,109 posts)And let most of them fall by the wayside in favor of big semi's crisscrossing this nation, burning billions of gallons of diesel to fill Walmarts with cheap shit from China and watermelons in Winnipeg in January from Mexico.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Granted a lot of that commerce is in coal, but still. We use rail.
packman
(16,296 posts)any tolls on any interstate commerce. I thought that our Founders didn't want the 13 states erecting tolls and tariffs between the states, especially on river commerce.
Besides, isn't the tax on gasoline supposed to pay for all those roads. What the shit is going on?
laurent
(57 posts)It ignores the fact that a highway, like a park or a library, is a public good--i.e., a good that benefits everyone in society. Public goods should be "socialized"--i.e., paid for by everyone, because everyone benefits from them.
I might never drive on an interstate highway or visit a park or library, but it benefits me for others to do so. Good highways get my goods delivered quicker and more cheaply, parks provide rest and recreation for people who might otherwise be nastier to each other, and public libraries help to create a more informed populace. So I should pay my fair share of the cost of these public goods even though I never use them directly.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)the publicans are trying to pass a sales tax to fund the DOT. These assholes are driving huge gas-hog SUVs around and they want the tax burden on sales tax which burdens the poor much more than anyone else.
We already have a toll bridge in the area, it was supposed to return to free when it paid for itself. 10 years later, still a toll bridge and without a vote of the people is being used for funding private roads and projects.
Everything Sucks!
yellowcanine
(35,692 posts)some states keep their gas taxes lower than neighboring states. This evens things out a bit. You want to fill up in Virginia because the gas tax is lower and then drive through Maryland? Ok , this allows Maryland to collect something for the maintenance of their stretch of the road. Maryland maintains their roads better than Pennsylvania or Virginia. It costs money.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)yellowcanine
(35,692 posts)I am just stating what seems reasonable to me. Roads cost money. Some roads cost more than others. The people who use the costly roads should pay for them. Like it or not, this is the future. The technology wasn't there before. It is now. There will be no toll booths. It will all be EZ Pass or you will be mailed a bill based on your registration plate. This will also be used to reduce traffic on heavily congested roads. You insist on driving all by yourself into the city? Ok but you are going to pay for it.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)imagine if every state had them. It cost me around 33 -35 dollars to DC. In many places its seems like the driver is the cash cow, w/o e-z pass you will pay more. Jersey pretty much doubled, theirs.
yellowcanine
(35,692 posts)This evens things out a bit.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)economic benefit, but should we be subsidizing trucks and putting rail roads at a disadvantage?
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)In France, Spain their interstate equivalents are largely all toll and really put our roads to shame. We have short changed our roads for far too long.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)They also invest in public transportation and have excellent long-haul rail systems. There are alternatives to driving. In this country unless you live in New York, Boston, Washington, Portland, Seattle and a few other cities you have few options to get to work than to drive. And in some of these plus hundreds more there may be public transportation but it really only works, as here in Atlanta, if you live close to the city center.
So while I agree they have toll roads I would also suggest that because their income tax systems are more progressive, having a single toll regardless of your personal status is arguably more fair. As well there are usually more options for citizens of those countries in getting from point A to point B.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)They have never been for the people.
raise the damn gas tax
kath
(10,565 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)And the corporate fascists are already planning for the next Trojan horse....
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)They really are pulling the ladder up behind them.
Disgusting.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...and rescue the auto industry. But now we have to pay for the highways -- twice.
- Thanks Obama!
[center]
''O'' stands for oil![/center]
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I mean, maybe he is the head of the Administration in the White House, but he's not a dictator, and besides, this is the only thing he could get approval on before Congress even if he didn't (and was not legally required) to ask them.
His hands were tied. TIED.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...except: And it's a FULL MOON fer gawds sake!
I mean, when will people come to understand that just because you voted for someone to become President and then they actually do become President, it's not like they can just willy-nilly do stuff. I mean come on!!!!
- He's just the President!!! Cut him some slack fer cryin' out loud!!!!
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Love the graphic, thanks!
niyad
(112,424 posts)Obnoxious_One
(97 posts)Seriously this policeman of the world obsession is leaving the average suffering American broke.