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Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 05:53 AM Apr 2014

White House opens door to tolls on interstate highways, removing long-standing prohibition

Source: Washington Post

With pressure mounting to avert a transportation funding crisis this summer, the Obama administration Tuesday opened the door for states to collect tolls on interstate highways to raise revenue for roadway repairs.

The proposal, contained in a four-year, $302 billion White House transportation bill, would reverse a long-standing federal prohibition on most interstate tolling.

Though some older segments of the network — notably the Pennsylvania and New Jersey turnpikes and Interstate 95 in Maryland and Virginia — are toll roads, most of the 46,876-mile system has been toll-free.

“We believe that this is an area where the states have to make their own decisions,” said Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “We want to open the aperture, if you will, to allow more states to choose to make broader use of tolling, to have that option available.”

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html



disgusting
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White House opens door to tolls on interstate highways, removing long-standing prohibition (Original Post) Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 OP
That is sooo much better than eliminating some of the tax loopholes I read about yesterday. djean111 Apr 2014 #1
Indiana already sold their Turnpike (I80/I90) liberal N proud Apr 2014 #2
Yes, Mitch Daniels dotymed Apr 2014 #25
To be fair. You had to pay to use on that road before it was "leased" out. LiberalFighter Apr 2014 #36
True liberal N proud Apr 2014 #43
To be fair Aerows Apr 2014 #94
I totally agree on that point. LiberalFighter Apr 2014 #99
Yup, this is our tax breaks at work n/t aggiesal Apr 2014 #62
Is this the New America newfie11 Apr 2014 #3
They want it all. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #40
That is it, precisely! FiveGoodMen Apr 2014 #71
Well if you plan ahead Aerows Apr 2014 #95
So much for the open road... Thor_MN Apr 2014 #4
Why, that's obviously the only solution there is deutsey Apr 2014 #5
He's trying to out-do Clinton in being a business sellout n/t n2doc Apr 2014 #6
Bill ain't going to like that. bvar22 Apr 2014 #97
Just more decay ... GeorgeGist Apr 2014 #7
I love this game! RandiFan1290 Apr 2014 #8
^^^That's it!^^^ Tom Ripley Apr 2014 #84
ALEC favors this: Cooley Hurd Apr 2014 #9
Do we know how much $$ Koch Bros. is giving to Dem Party? Mondavi Apr 2014 #92
The "toll road" part of I-95 is a new bypass n2doc Apr 2014 #10
Half of I44 in Oklahoma has been toll roads my entire life and always will be. CBGLuthier Apr 2014 #11
The rules... Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #12
I-88, I-90 and I-94 in Illinois have always been toll roads. greatauntoftriplets Apr 2014 #53
Grandfathered in dbackjon Apr 2014 #83
No, No, No........ Swede Atlanta Apr 2014 #13
Exactly, Swede, it's a regressive tax. Even if they don't CALL it a tax. nt raccoon Apr 2014 #23
Socialist :) n/t seabeckind Apr 2014 #39
What other "govt" programs will convert to "pay as you go" Supersedeas Apr 2014 #85
NO!!!!! Just up the fuel tax a penny or two. groundloop Apr 2014 #14
An electric car could drive coast to coast and not pay one penny in gas tax. PADemD Apr 2014 #20
I did not see a post about not voting. dotymed Apr 2014 #30
+1 million Louisiana1976 Apr 2014 #81
I can see a Supreme Court Case in the Making Demeter Apr 2014 #15
F*CK NO! 4dsc Apr 2014 #16
I'll bet this will be a big voter turnout machine for the Dems this fall n2doc Apr 2014 #17
Not from the Borowitz Report... klook Apr 2014 #18
change you can believe in Enrique Apr 2014 #19
This absolutely fucks over poor people. Lars39 Apr 2014 #21
Expect delays. Nitram Apr 2014 #22
Would you support a hike in the gas tax? perdita9 Apr 2014 #26
Roads cost money perdita9 Apr 2014 #24
Bullshit. Atman Apr 2014 #31
I don't disagree with you but this approach is extremely regressive......... Swede Atlanta Apr 2014 #33
So many times these things get convoluted seabeckind Apr 2014 #45
Spot on underpants May 2014 #108
Right-wing talking points cost us far more. n/t Orsino May 2014 #110
Absolutely disgusting regressive bullshit. stillwaiting Apr 2014 #27
Is there anything he won't eventually cave on, to satisfy the "free market" types? kysrsoze May 2014 #105
But don't forget.. sendero May 2014 #109
Has anyone been to Dallas? Blanks Apr 2014 #28
Yes, there's no toll booth tammywammy Apr 2014 #91
A two for...... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #29
Good way to extract more money from the working class abelenkpe Apr 2014 #32
This is a huge problem! Every opportunity they increase our costs to live and work! Dustlawyer Apr 2014 #34
more money squeezed heaven05 Apr 2014 #35
When our country is an empty husk? CrispyQ Apr 2014 #44
actually heaven05 Apr 2014 #50
Yes, the bullying is everywhere. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #55
thank you heaven05 Apr 2014 #56
+1000 It is nursed in the culture and in our media. woo me with science May 2014 #104
They're just determined to milk us for everything they possibly can . . . Brigid Apr 2014 #37
I might question the "they" seabeckind Apr 2014 #41
Now, can we talk about our transportation systems? seabeckind Apr 2014 #38
Bill Clinton's fourth term. CrispyQ Apr 2014 #42
Reagan's 9th! adirondacker Apr 2014 #74
Touche! CrispyQ Apr 2014 #76
Thanks. Alkene Apr 2014 #46
Tax the super-rich, tax the corporations Cal Carpenter Apr 2014 #47
Par for the course....... ballyhoo Apr 2014 #48
Some states already collect tolls, that require some connection to OUR Federal paid roads? Sunlei Apr 2014 #49
White House opens door to more regressive taxes seveneyes Apr 2014 #51
Who is that man in the Oval Office? Lasher Apr 2014 #52
Will multinational corporations have to pay a toll think Apr 2014 #54
Is this real? Xyzse Apr 2014 #57
San Diego built a privately owned toll road in South County JayhawkSD Apr 2014 #58
Changetastic! progressoid Apr 2014 #59
Hopeultimate! Aerows Apr 2014 #96
Telecommute! Telecommute! Telecommute! kentauros Apr 2014 #60
One average 18-wheel truck causes more highway wear and tear than 1,000 cars aint_no_life_nowhere Apr 2014 #61
Large trucks 2naSalit Apr 2014 #65
The attached article aint_no_life_nowhere Apr 2014 #69
Then the tolls 2naSalit Apr 2014 #72
And that's why in my opinion no tolls are better aint_no_life_nowhere Apr 2014 #73
The tolls 2naSalit Apr 2014 #75
Umm. You can switch to more locally produced food, etc. yellowcanine Apr 2014 #80
Too bad we decided rail lines were sooo 19th century NickB79 Apr 2014 #87
Nah, rail accounts for about 50% of commerce. joshcryer May 2014 #102
I thought the Constitution already forbade packman Apr 2014 #63
"User fees" for highways and other public goods is a bad idea. laurent Apr 2014 #64
And here in MO... freebrew Apr 2014 #66
I have no problem with this. Gas taxes aen't enough to keep roads well maintained. And yellowcanine Apr 2014 #67
The third way...eh!...nt Jesus Malverde Apr 2014 #70
I don't know what that means. yellowcanine Apr 2014 #77
Anyone driving 95 to DC is paying big tolls.... Historic NY Apr 2014 #68
Auto travel is heavily subsidized both in terms of roads and environmental costs. yellowcanine Apr 2014 #78
You bring up an excellent point - ease of transportion is an hedgehog Apr 2014 #88
Some you really need to got out this county more, compare our roads to France SpartanDem Apr 2014 #79
And the income tax systems in those countries are much more progressive than here.... Swede Atlanta Apr 2014 #90
FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION dbackjon Apr 2014 #82
So, so sick of him, his adminstration and all his fucking bullshit.Change we can believe in, my ass! kath Apr 2014 #100
+10000000000000000000 woo me with science May 2014 #103
Shifting the tax burden further down the ladder. Ash_F Apr 2014 #86
So not only do we have to subsidize the oil industry...... DeSwiss Apr 2014 #89
But President Obama isn't the White House Aerows Apr 2014 #93
I think you covered all the bases...... DeSwiss May 2014 #101
That's a mighty fine suit Jesus Malverde May 2014 #107
I could have sworn the gasoline taxes were supposed to pay for road upkeep. niyad Apr 2014 #98
How many highways could we pay for if we didn't stick our nose in every other countries affairs? Obnoxious_One May 2014 #106
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
1. That is sooo much better than eliminating some of the tax loopholes I read about yesterday.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:11 AM
Apr 2014
"While providing tolling as an option to states, the White House proposal relies on funding from a series of corporate tax reforms, most of them one-time revenue streams that would provide a four-year bridge to close the trust-fund deficit and permit $150 billion more in spending than the gas tax will bring in.

The corporate tax reform proposal has gotten a lukewarm reception even from Democrats in Congress, and Foxx emphasized that the administration is open to any counterproposal that wins bipartisan support."


Wonder if the tax reforms will be in this package if/when it is passed.
Can privatization be far behind, now that states can impose tolls? For some reason, I am picturing Rick Scott and Chris Christie dancing with glee at this news.

liberal N proud

(60,298 posts)
2. Indiana already sold their Turnpike (I80/I90)
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:39 AM
Apr 2014

If they allow all states to collect tolls on the interstate highways, I sure hope like hell they make one transponder that works across the nation.

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
25. Yes, Mitch Daniels
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:37 AM
Apr 2014

W's ex budget director and ex-CEO of Eli Lilly, "rented" those highways to a foreign interest on a 75 year contract. The people of Indiana allowed it. The state democratic legislature fought hard against it but the money won, as usual. BTW, Mitch Daniels first
official act as governor was to force all state employees out of their Union.
Prior to this, Indiana had a long history of Democratic governors. I lived there at the time. I had never seen so much money spent on any election prior to that. In Indiana if you have Eli Lilly backing you, you win.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
94. To be fair
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:44 PM
Apr 2014

it isn't a good idea to open up new avenues to tax people using roads while letting the extremely wealthy slide.

LiberalFighter

(50,477 posts)
99. I totally agree on that point.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:14 PM
Apr 2014

Even if the rich were able to avoid using roads altogether they would still benefit from highways and other venues requiring motor vehicles. They need their employees or employees of companies they have an investment to have the ability to get to work. Likewise, to deliver raw goods to their place of business and ship them out.

newfie11

(8,159 posts)
3. Is this the New America
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:43 AM
Apr 2014

Peons must pay for the commons but the rich get the honor of buying the politicians.

Wonder what comes next?

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
95. Well if you plan ahead
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:45 PM
Apr 2014

I hear you can get chains in different designer fashions. That's pretty much where all of this is headed.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
4. So much for the open road...
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:45 AM
Apr 2014

Your choice, have correct change and wait in line or virtual "Papers, please"

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
97. Bill ain't going to like that.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:43 PM
Apr 2014

It won't be near as much fun being the 2nd Best Republican President Ever.
The Groupie Chicks don't hang around 2nd Best.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
10. The "toll road" part of I-95 is a new bypass
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:55 AM
Apr 2014

Not the "older segment" they are misleading people about. And it can, indeed, be bypassed.

Everything is a grift. Next, they'll sell off the rights to the interstate tolls for cents on the dollar to a multinational corp. The states have already done this.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
11. Half of I44 in Oklahoma has been toll roads my entire life and always will be.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:58 AM
Apr 2014

Never have understood when they say it is not allowed. It is everywhere i drive.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
12. The rules...
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:04 AM
Apr 2014

States are barred from tolling federal interstates now except if the money is used to add lanes or otherwise increase capacity, or if the highways have had tolls dating back to before the federal interstate highway program was launched in 1956.

http://blog.chron.com/thehighwayman/2014/04/loosening-toll-limits-could-improve-roads-at-a-price/

greatauntoftriplets

(175,691 posts)
53. I-88, I-90 and I-94 in Illinois have always been toll roads.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:24 AM
Apr 2014

That said, they are pretty much always under construction with improvements being made. Open-road toll gates mean there's no slowdown as long as you have a transponder.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
83. Grandfathered in
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 01:28 PM
Apr 2014

Oklahoma built those segments on its own, only later were they added to the Federal Highway System.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
13. No, No, No........
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:06 AM
Apr 2014

The federal interstate system is paid for by my state and federal taxes. I believe the federal government stands for a substantial part of work on the interstate system on some kind of a share with the states.

Already here in Georgia they have established tolls to use the HOV lane in some areas around Atlanta.

This is really making our federal interstate highways a pay-to-go system. I am already paying federal and state income taxes as well fuel taxes.

Under a toll system the rich driving their $100K Porsches on their way to their job that pays them $250K a year with all of their cheese tax loopholes pay, axle for axle, the same toll as the poor person driving their 1997 Toyota Corolla with 250K miles on it on their way to a job paying the minimum wage.

What is fair about this system?

Supersedeas

(20,630 posts)
85. What other "govt" programs will convert to "pay as you go"
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 02:31 PM
Apr 2014

on top of the income taxes that we pay to support these programs.

groundloop

(11,486 posts)
14. NO!!!!! Just up the fuel tax a penny or two.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:11 AM
Apr 2014

OK DU, so instead of getting all up in arms and threatening not to vote in the next election and all that let's get all up in arms and contact the DOT or whomever and explain to them why this is a bad idea and that we'd rather see a small increase in the gas tax or whatever.


PADemD

(4,482 posts)
20. An electric car could drive coast to coast and not pay one penny in gas tax.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:59 AM
Apr 2014

People are also paying less gas taxes because of the higher fuel efficiency cars. When the driving public finally switches over to all electric or some other non-gasoline vehicle, road repairs will still need to be made.

dotymed

(5,610 posts)
30. I did not see a post about not voting.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:51 AM
Apr 2014

WHY should there be another increase on the gas tax?
REPEAL THE BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY. Return our income taxes to a Progressive tax. The poor should not shoulder the burden of our highway system. The wealthy make up a small percentage of our population. Because we have "the best democracy that money can buy", we, the underprivileged will be paying a huge percentage of the "tolls" collected. The wealthy can afford it and their
transportation companies do the most harm to our roads.
I miss the "old DU" where people actually protested the inequalities in "our" government. Now, most seem to be brainwashed into believing it is fair to be disproportionately raped.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
15. I can see a Supreme Court Case in the Making
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:22 AM
Apr 2014

and if we had a court that knew what justice was, we could win.

klook

(12,134 posts)
18. Not from the Borowitz Report...
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:45 AM
Apr 2014

I honestly thought this was a joke in response to the recent Net Neutrality news.

Didn't we all already pay for the interstate highways??

Nitram

(22,663 posts)
22. Expect delays.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:20 AM
Apr 2014

I'd rather pay the toll in taxes than pay to set u pa vast system of toll booths that will slow traffic down at every entrance and exit.

perdita9

(1,142 posts)
24. Roads cost money
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:36 AM
Apr 2014

And our infrastructure needs to be maintained.

We've got to pay for it somehow and Congress cares more about getting reelected than responsible governing.

Atman

(31,464 posts)
31. Bullshit.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:54 AM
Apr 2014

Of course roads cost money. Have you tried to drive through Florida? There are tolls in the middle of nowhere, not associated with major exits, just a place to stop you on the highway and extort money for privately owned roads. They spends tens of millions of dollars constructing massive toll plazas, when the money could be used for actually fixing the roads! Close the damned loopholes for billionaires, re-institute a fair tax structure. EVERYTHING is put on the backs of the people who can least afford it. This country is fucked up.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
33. I don't disagree with you but this approach is extremely regressive.........
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:55 AM
Apr 2014

As per my previous post. The rich person will drive their $100K Porsche to their job making $250K. They can take advantage of tax deductions and other loopholes to avoid serious contribution. The poor person driving their 1997 Corolla that has 250K miles on it to a minimum wage job. They pay the same toll. Is that fair?

If we had decent public transportation the poor person could avoid the toll "tax" by using that. But that only works in a minority of major U.S. metropolitan areas. If you live and/or work anywhere outside of the "core" metro Atlanta area, public transportation is not a viable option.

But I am absolutely opposed to a "flat" toll charge that is the same for the rich and the poor when we do not invest and make other options available to the poor.

At one time the gas tax probably approximated usage. But improvements in fuel economy and the introduction of hybrid and all electric vehicles eliminate that direct correlation.

Taxing on miles driven is one option where annually at time of registration miles driven over the past year are calculated and billed by state taxing authorities. Tax rate would be based on mileage and the type/weight/use of the vehicle. States would then share the tax revenue with the federal government.

But that doesn't account for non-resident drivers. I would suspect there are more cars registered in Maine that drive on Georgia highways than the opposite. So that creates a challenge in ensuring that usage is taxed and revenues remanded to those that incur the cost of building and maintaining the highways.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
45. So many times these things get convoluted
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:41 AM
Apr 2014

Instead of using cost to shift the public's opinion and thereby improve the quality of life in positive changes, the "cost" turns into a profit scheme and we're forced into a negative method that nobody likes.

Example: where I used to live Seattle was a ferry ride away. Politically there was a goal to encourage walk-on passengers and thereby reduce the overall cost. But the parking areas near the terminal were treated like a cash cow, privatized and then subsidized. It turned out that paying for the parking and then having to deal with the lack of transportation on the other side made it much more cost effective on a personal levelto take 2 tons of steel with you.

Instead of treating the problem as a whole and looking at each piece as just a factor....

Parking in my current city is another example. Instead of using the parking as a means to encourage non-commuters like me, to use facilities, it's treated as a privatized money scheme. So I don't spend a nice lunch at the local artsy area and instead go to the suburban insult on the senses where the parking is convenient...and I need to exit one parking lot, use a highway, and go 3 blocks to the next parking lot, waiting on multiple traffic lights ...

In this case increasing tolls and using that as a means to get people to start looking for alternatives -- or at least see the actual costs...

kysrsoze

(6,010 posts)
105. Is there anything he won't eventually cave on, to satisfy the "free market" types?
Thu May 1, 2014, 02:02 AM
May 2014

Apparently not. With the exception of ACA and some small first-term victories, I'm seeing little to distinguish him from Republicans. This dovetails nicely with his FCC appointment's gutting of Net Neutrality. I'm sure Keystone XL approval is just a matter of time.

Would we expect anything different from such an admirer of Reagan?

sendero

(28,552 posts)
109. But don't forget..
Thu May 1, 2014, 11:34 AM
May 2014

.... the Republicans (fast death) are soooo0000OOOO much better than the Democrats (death by a thousand cuts).

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
28. Has anyone been to Dallas?
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:40 AM
Apr 2014

They have some kind of toll system where they take it out of the bank (your bank) or something.

I was there a couple months ago and it was all tore up and there were all these signs saying how much it cost, but they had no toll booths.

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
91. Yes, there's no toll booth
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:05 PM
Apr 2014

If you don't have a toll tag they run your license plate and send a bill to your house and you are also paying more per toll. Otherwise, you get a tolltag. You select how much you want to put on it, and when you use that up it charges whatever you've set up (mine is to my debit card) and fills back up. You can monitor the tolls you're being charged on the website.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
29. A two for......
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:42 AM
Apr 2014

The end of net neutrality will take away free internet roads while this will take away free driving roads. We are screwed on land and by air.

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
34. This is a huge problem! Every opportunity they increase our costs to live and work!
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 08:56 AM
Apr 2014

If we ever get a true Progressive in the White House we can ask him, "Mr. President, tear down those toll booths!

CrispyQ

(36,221 posts)
44. When our country is an empty husk?
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:38 AM
Apr 2014

People I talk to do not know or care about these issues. TPTB have us where they want us. We are either working three jobs to keep from going over the cliff or we're comfy enough to not rock the boat. My husband works in an environment where two bullies are allowed to terrorize the department & no one will say a thing because everyone is in fear of losing their jobs. This is the kind of America the rich want.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
50. actually
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:20 AM
Apr 2014

I was forced to retire because of bullies and this IS america now and the power that the well to do, bankers and corporations have. This mentality is even in the government sector. Took a thousand dollar pay cut, lost my house and everything thing that went with it. America the beautiful my ass.

CrispyQ

(36,221 posts)
55. Yes, the bullying is everywhere.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:32 AM
Apr 2014

Might makes right. I don't remember things being so mean when I was younger.

I am so sorry for your misfortune. I wish I had more to offer than words.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
56. thank you
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:36 AM
Apr 2014

your empathy is sincerely felt. It really wasn't so mean when decades ago community meant something. I mean mean people have always been here but not so damn many as seems today. It's cold out here.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
104. +1000 It is nursed in the culture and in our media.
Thu May 1, 2014, 01:25 AM
May 2014

The messaging here is pervasively sick and punitive and vicious, and you don't realize it until you talk to people from somewhere else.

Thank you for this post.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
37. They're just determined to milk us for everything they possibly can . . .
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:13 AM
Apr 2014

Before this country completely implodes.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
41. I might question the "they"
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:26 AM
Apr 2014

I'm sure if we scrape off the opposition label to this proposal we'd find a fossil fuel guy underneath. Gotta make sure the junkies don't run into anything which might cut down on their "need".

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
38. Now, can we talk about our transportation systems?
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:22 AM
Apr 2014

In another thread on DU there's a discussion of the possibility of Reid doing a vote on the pipeline.

There's also a thread on the Bakken shale.

The bulk of the means for outsourcing our manufacturing is facilitated by the highway systems and the ease with which a single, very inefficient vehicle can transport goods.

These systems are a direct support of the current paradigm. A paradigm that is becoming increasingly expensive and is straining its capabilities. Just like air travel. In effect we are feeding the monster that is consuming us.

Maybe it's time to think about it and try to find a solution instead of hiding behind a false equivalency. If we make the system more efficient and get the commuter and long haul overhead solved, it'll open up the system so we won't have to deal with a crisis down the road.

Now is it time?

Personally I don't like the idea that my tax dollars are used to support a walmart distribution center out in the middle of nowhere and in doing so put the local business guy out of business.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
49. Some states already collect tolls, that require some connection to OUR Federal paid roads?
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:13 AM
Apr 2014

Probably a good idea (I guess) to require some of those toll fees to come back to our Federal Gov.

We already give the states Federal money to care for the Federal funded built roads.

 

seveneyes

(4,631 posts)
51. White House opens door to more regressive taxes
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:22 AM
Apr 2014

Why is a Democratic administration putting even more load on the little person? Just tax the millions of millionaires already!

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
58. San Diego built a privately owned toll road in South County
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:42 AM
Apr 2014

They had to buy it back.

Seems there were alternate routes that didn''t take that much longer, so no one was using the toll road, and the builder was losing money merely maintaining it. He said to hell with it and wanted to give it back to the city. They paid him a nominal sum so that he could not later sue, and it now is a toll free route.

Someone, it seems to me, should have pointed out before hand, "Hey, I-905 is not that far away and it's free."

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
60. Telecommute! Telecommute! Telecommute!
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:51 AM
Apr 2014

I've been saying it for years, and hearing all the reasons in the world we "can't" do it. Yes, I know we can't telecommute in-person, hands-on work, like service jobs. And I'm not even suggesting that.

A large majority of your average cubicle, and office desk-jobs can be done from home. If your boss is so insecure about micro-managing you that you must be physically visible, then go with small satellite offices close to the homes of some workers. Keep commute times to under fifteen minutes or less.

And I don't count on the feds to push this idea, even though they do have a website for just for their employees to do it. (Anyone even aware of this? I only discovered it looking for telecommuting info. And yet, it's rarely mentioned, if at all.)

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
61. One average 18-wheel truck causes more highway wear and tear than 1,000 cars
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:01 AM
Apr 2014

according to a paper recently published in the journal Economics Of Transportation.

http://www.baconsrebellion.com/2014/02/how-to-get-trucks-to-pay-their-fair-share-for-road-maintenance.html

Will trucking companies and corporations engaged in commerce pay tolls in proportion to the infrastructure damage they cause? Even then, they'll just pass the costs on to the consumer, who can't pass on his toll costs by requiring a salary increase.

2naSalit

(86,031 posts)
65. Large trucks
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:45 AM
Apr 2014

do pay their fair share and then some. Each state extracts road use taxes based on miles traveled and fuel used along with weight assessments. Then they also pay a fuel tax by the quarter year AND additionally at the pump when they buy fuel in each state. Some states also charge a tax for fuel used while traveling in the state whether you bought it there or not. Then there are the federal taxes... ever wonder why semis have so many stickers in the shapes of states on the doors and then a license plate that has a bunch of little registration-looking stickers? And then there are the operating costs, and per axle tolls in NJ, NY, OH, IN, OK, IL... and all the other toll roads and bridges in the lower 48.

The corporate operations, very large fleets, get breaks on these taxes and tolls while the small fleets and owner operators often earn - after all the taxes, ins. and loan payments - what might amount to minimum wage. And that doesn't even start to account for the phone rates, occasional motels, showers and food, oil, tires and safety equipment.

The corporate loopholes amount to yet another facet of corporate welfare. That we the little people should pay additionally by way of tolls is BS... we deserve better!

Vote this year and get the red out of our Congress!!!

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
69. The attached article
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:57 AM
Apr 2014

and the article it references states what you have stated, that trucks pay fuel taxes already and pay more than car users. But that they pay an infinitessimal amount compared to the damage they cause. It even cites a government study that a truck causes up to 10,000 times more infrastructure damage than a car does.

I agree with the people here in this thread who don't want any tolls, neither for trucks nor cars. But if the government is going to charge tolls for the repair of infrastructure, then I think commercial interests who profit from federal highways must pay their fair share. And while trucks already pay more than cars, I put my faith in the experts who claim that trucks pay just a very, very small amount in higher taxes than the damage they cause, which accounts for most of the infrastructure damage to roads and bridges.

2naSalit

(86,031 posts)
72. Then the tolls
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:02 PM
Apr 2014

should apply to shippers and receivers whose freight weight is the actual culprit and therefore, a corporate expense that is shifted to us, yet again, since they are the beneficiaries (receive profits) of the road system... larger fleets should pay more not less.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
73. And that's why in my opinion no tolls are better
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:20 PM
Apr 2014

because the commercial interests will always pass on the costs to the public anyway. Everyone benefits from the roads and everyone should bear the cost.

2naSalit

(86,031 posts)
75. The tolls
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:27 PM
Apr 2014

will not cover the bulk of the costs... the corporations should be TAXED commensurate with their use and benefit from infrastructure that we paid for already. They make greater use from it for profit so they should be footing the bill for maintenance.

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
80. Umm. You can switch to more locally produced food, etc.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:39 PM
Apr 2014

Start factoring in the cost of transportation when choosing where and what to buy.

Tolls are part of the true cost of the goods which are transported on roads. This will even things out a bit - though the subsidies still will favor the road transport.

NickB79

(19,109 posts)
87. Too bad we decided rail lines were sooo 19th century
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 03:53 PM
Apr 2014

And let most of them fall by the wayside in favor of big semi's crisscrossing this nation, burning billions of gallons of diesel to fill Walmarts with cheap shit from China and watermelons in Winnipeg in January from Mexico.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
102. Nah, rail accounts for about 50% of commerce.
Thu May 1, 2014, 01:04 AM
May 2014

Granted a lot of that commerce is in coal, but still. We use rail.

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
63. I thought the Constitution already forbade
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:44 AM
Apr 2014

any tolls on any interstate commerce. I thought that our Founders didn't want the 13 states erecting tolls and tariffs between the states, especially on river commerce.

Besides, isn't the tax on gasoline supposed to pay for all those roads. What the shit is going on?

 

laurent

(57 posts)
64. "User fees" for highways and other public goods is a bad idea.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:45 AM
Apr 2014

It ignores the fact that a highway, like a park or a library, is a public good--i.e., a good that benefits everyone in society. Public goods should be "socialized"--i.e., paid for by everyone, because everyone benefits from them.

I might never drive on an interstate highway or visit a park or library, but it benefits me for others to do so. Good highways get my goods delivered quicker and more cheaply, parks provide rest and recreation for people who might otherwise be nastier to each other, and public libraries help to create a more informed populace. So I should pay my fair share of the cost of these public goods even though I never use them directly.

freebrew

(1,917 posts)
66. And here in MO...
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:46 AM
Apr 2014

the publicans are trying to pass a sales tax to fund the DOT. These assholes are driving huge gas-hog SUVs around and they want the tax burden on sales tax which burdens the poor much more than anyone else.

We already have a toll bridge in the area, it was supposed to return to free when it paid for itself. 10 years later, still a toll bridge and without a vote of the people is being used for funding private roads and projects.

Everything Sucks!

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
67. I have no problem with this. Gas taxes aen't enough to keep roads well maintained. And
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:56 AM
Apr 2014

some states keep their gas taxes lower than neighboring states. This evens things out a bit. You want to fill up in Virginia because the gas tax is lower and then drive through Maryland? Ok , this allows Maryland to collect something for the maintenance of their stretch of the road. Maryland maintains their roads better than Pennsylvania or Virginia. It costs money.

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
77. I don't know what that means.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:28 PM
Apr 2014

I am just stating what seems reasonable to me. Roads cost money. Some roads cost more than others. The people who use the costly roads should pay for them. Like it or not, this is the future. The technology wasn't there before. It is now. There will be no toll booths. It will all be EZ Pass or you will be mailed a bill based on your registration plate. This will also be used to reduce traffic on heavily congested roads. You insist on driving all by yourself into the city? Ok but you are going to pay for it.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
68. Anyone driving 95 to DC is paying big tolls....
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:57 AM
Apr 2014

imagine if every state had them. It cost me around 33 -35 dollars to DC. In many places its seems like the driver is the cash cow, w/o e-z pass you will pay more. Jersey pretty much doubled, theirs.

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
78. Auto travel is heavily subsidized both in terms of roads and environmental costs.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:32 PM
Apr 2014

This evens things out a bit.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
88. You bring up an excellent point - ease of transportion is an
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 04:43 PM
Apr 2014

economic benefit, but should we be subsidizing trucks and putting rail roads at a disadvantage?

SpartanDem

(4,533 posts)
79. Some you really need to got out this county more, compare our roads to France
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 12:37 PM
Apr 2014

In France, Spain their interstate equivalents are largely all toll and really put our roads to shame. We have short changed our roads for far too long.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
90. And the income tax systems in those countries are much more progressive than here....
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 05:25 PM
Apr 2014

They also invest in public transportation and have excellent long-haul rail systems. There are alternatives to driving. In this country unless you live in New York, Boston, Washington, Portland, Seattle and a few other cities you have few options to get to work than to drive. And in some of these plus hundreds more there may be public transportation but it really only works, as here in Atlanta, if you live close to the city center.

So while I agree they have toll roads I would also suggest that because their income tax systems are more progressive, having a single toll regardless of your personal status is arguably more fair. As well there are usually more options for citizens of those countries in getting from point A to point B.

kath

(10,565 posts)
100. So, so sick of him, his adminstration and all his fucking bullshit.Change we can believe in, my ass!
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 11:43 PM
Apr 2014

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
86. Shifting the tax burden further down the ladder.
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 02:45 PM
Apr 2014

They really are pulling the ladder up behind them.

Disgusting.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
89. So not only do we have to subsidize the oil industry......
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 04:55 PM
Apr 2014

...and rescue the auto industry. But now we have to pay for the highways -- twice.

- Thanks Obama!

[center]
''O'' stands for oil![/center]

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
93. But President Obama isn't the White House
Wed Apr 30, 2014, 06:42 PM
Apr 2014

I mean, maybe he is the head of the Administration in the White House, but he's not a dictator, and besides, this is the only thing he could get approval on before Congress even if he didn't (and was not legally required) to ask them.

His hands were tied. TIED.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
101. I think you covered all the bases......
Thu May 1, 2014, 12:57 AM
May 2014

...except: And it's a FULL MOON fer gawds sake!

I mean, when will people come to understand that just because you voted for someone to become President and then they actually do become President, it's not like they can just willy-nilly do stuff. I mean come on!!!!


- He's just the President!!! Cut him some slack fer cryin' out loud!!!!

 

Obnoxious_One

(97 posts)
106. How many highways could we pay for if we didn't stick our nose in every other countries affairs?
Thu May 1, 2014, 04:54 AM
May 2014

Seriously this policeman of the world obsession is leaving the average suffering American broke.

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