Kremlin: Russia will retaliate to attack on its interests

[Bosonic]

Source: ITV

Russia's Foreign Minister has issued a stark warning to the Ukrainian government, saying that his country will retaliate if its interests are threatened.

Sergei Lavrov's words came as Ukraine's Deputy Prime Minister announced a new phase of "anti-terrorist" actions against pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.

“If we are attacked, we would certainly respond. If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in accordance with international law,” he told Russia Today.

Mr Lavrov also claimed that the Americans were now "running the show" in Ukraine".

Read more: http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-23/kremlin-russia-will-retaliate-to-attack-on-its-citizens/

---

Russia will respond if interests attacked in Ukraine: Lavrov

Moscow (AFP) - Russia will respond if its interests are attacked in Ukraine, as they were in South Ossetia in 2008 which led to war with Georgia, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday.

"If we are attacked, we would certainly respond," he told state-controlled RT television in an interview.

"If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in accordance with international law."

Lavrov did not elaborate further on what the response would entail but the reference to Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia strongly hints at the possibility of military action.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-respond-interests-attacked-ukraine-lavrov-095029034.html

[davidpdx]

1. Oh, yeah it's the Americans

We've already invaded Poland according to some of the crazies on DU.

[penultimate]

11. oh gawd, i hope you are referring to my posts

I said that, but I was being facetious.

[davidpdx]

16. Ok, my sarcasm meter was broken

[ballyhoo]

14. The Geneva deal is falling apart. You

need another "invade Poland" tale. The Russian spy plane over British waters isn't working either. Isn't there any drones left? Have Nuland put together a team of Sparrow drones and have them attack Slavyansk, then blame it on Russian Separatists disguised as CIA moles.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014786661

[davidpdx]

18. I was referring to the gross over reaction of us sending 600 troops

(actually 150 to Poland, and 150 to the three other countries).

[ballyhoo]

20. When a balloon is about to burst from

being overblown, one does not stick a pin in it to test for pressure resistance. The number of troops is not the issue; it is "boots on the ground" at all. A buildup has started. Russia now has one or two ships in British waters. Next, the US will send more troops. Putin has no where to go; he can not reverse course now. And that's the way it is. This is now way bigger than injury to Maidan. This is real big. Find an intermediate news source and see what they are saying. Stay away from the NYT and RT; they are both conflicted and guided externally. This is all the neocon plan starting with 911. Nothing has changed.

[davidpdx]

22. I agree with you about the intermediate news sources

Some of them are just plain crap. I'd like to believe Obama is not going to fall for this and let us get further involved. Sounds like you are saying it's too late. I hope not.

[ballyhoo]

23. It was too late prior to Obama being

elected president. Had Romney been elected, we would have had troops all over the Black Sea by now. Obama is not in control of
this. This is a bunch of rich oil men trying to steal Russian oil. Oil people are so crooked you would not believe it. I was STAT Regional Manager for an oil company right before they merged with another oil company. I told them I wasn't interested in the new company. These oil people are so dishonest I am still bothered by some of the stuff they did. I can't tell you. I went against them in court and am still afraid there may be payback one day. Anyway, the people that are pushing Obama will not take "no" for an answer. And that's the name of that tune. We merely prolonged the agony. Well, my friend the Turk has been calling me so I have to go. I want to see what he says about any new American ships entering the Black Sea yet unreported by Drudge.

[EX500rider]

29. "This is a bunch of rich oil men trying to steal Russian oil." Want flesh out how that would happen?

[ballyhoo]

30. How it's happening now.....Do this:

Type in the Internet: Putin takes Crimea for Exxon-Mobil. Never mind, here is another post from DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101688687

Now follow this up and find what you want to know.

Then follow the money.

[EX500rider]

32. So Russia's oil company doing a joint venture is "a bunch of rich oil men trying to steal..

....Russia's oil" Really?? Poor Russia and the Russian "Oilagarchs" are defenseless little sheep being forced to give away their oil by Exxon/Mobil..... lol good one!

[ballyhoo]

33. Yes. that's pretty much it.....

I was former Regional STAT manager for Texaco. I'm not guessing here. I know. Too much snark with your posts. See ya.

[EX500rider]

34. No, that's pretty much not it...

.....how would Exxon force Russia to sign a contract they did not feel was in their best interest? Gunpoint?

[ballyhoo]

35. A contract? Is that what you think this is about?

Bwaaaaaahaha.

[EX500rider]

36. Yeah it turns out when Exxon gets hirered to help with oil rigs..

....they do so with legal contracts, ones that Russia/Rosneft has to agree with and sign before any work gets done.
And if they don't think it's in Russia's best interest then they don't sign.
Just who do you think contacted who for help with the arctic oil exploration and drilling?

[stevenleser]

39. But that person is an oil and gas industry expert, so they say. But they don't seem to know that.

See, if Exxon doesnt attach a rider when they contract for work on rigs that says "pretty please with sugar on top" its the US being evil and trying to steal Russian oil.

[The Magistrate]

40. That Is Not All He Is, Sir....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post10

Of course, he says he had no idea a site named 'wide awake gentile' was a hate site warning us all against Joooos like Ms. Nuland....

[stevenleser]

50. Which confirms my theory that this person is either a far right Russian nationalist...

...or one of their far right sympathizers here.

[The Magistrate]

54. That Is The Kind Interpretation, Sir

Given his obsessive focus on Ms. Nuland, I am not inclined to be kind in my assessment.

Especially since you have to wade through page after page of listings on a search for 'Victoria Nuland Ukraine' before a link to 'wide awake gentile' comes up, which makes hash of his claim when braced on this he had no idea what the site was, had never heard of it, and all the usual wheeze people try on when caught linking to a favorite hate site here....

[stevenleser]

62. Well, far right Russian nationalist to me = Zhirinovsky supporter.

And their sympathizers here? Well, let's just say Pat Buchanan is too racially sensitive for them.

[karynnj]

56. "Putin has nowhere to go"

You need to reassess your own position.

The country at the heart of this is Ukraine. An even handed position could be that BOTH sides need to back down and allow Ukraine to have an election as planned. Putin can easily back down - however, he is playing to Russian nationalism.

[ballyhoo]

58. I agree with that. Okay, let both sides back down. But without a concurrent

backing down "Putin has no where to go". This is not the USA, where there is not much Nationalism anymore. Even if Putin was not hell-bent on restoring the Soviet Union, he couldn't back down because of Russian Nationalism. If Putin now was to say I will unilaterally begin the withdrawal process no matter what the USA does, he would be regarded as a traitor. And his career would be over. I have been to Russia. I was born in America and will probably leave it next year. I do not need to reassess my position. I am seeing things in this country today that make me ill. But I respect your position.

[karynnj]

59. Russian Nationalism IS a big part of the problem

It is fascinating to see Russia point with disgust at Ukrainian nationalism when the SAME thing exists - to at least the same degree in Russia. It is also weird to see them call nationalism fascism. There are nationalists in both countries who are antisemitic and have ties to people who identify as fascists.

I guess you missed the few weeks where everyone kept rather quiet about the obvious - that Russia had indeed annexed Crimea. That quiet was the west and Ukraine almost offering Putin to not spend much effort contesting that. At that point, Putin COULD have stopped and many in Russia would have seen him the victor.

I am sorry you feel you need to leave the US - good luck in finding your utopia. If it is Russia, I wonder how quickly you will regret it.

[ballyhoo]

61. Utopia doesn't exist. Never has. Looking at

New Zealand. We definitely do not agree on the Crimea annexation. The only ones that did not want to join Russia was a group of Tartars. The Crimeans will do far better under Russia than they did under Ukraine, imo. Not as much the case with East and South Ukraine, but I want what the majority of the people want and show that in their voting. Lot of my friends have left the US. One couple I have known for 45 years built a house in northern Mexico. They are happy as hell, go surfing every day while I peruse the situations in Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt and now Ukraine. Had I to this over again, my path would have been different. Well, good luck to you and the Ukrainians.

[Anansi1171]

53. Ha! The US can have neither interests or allies-nt

[Beacool]

2. Are we back in the cold war era?

The Russians take over the Crimea, but they blame the Americans for trying to contain them. Lavrov is NOW concerned about international law???

[The Magistrate]

3. Pretty Much, Ma'am

Through the mirror and into a very old school wonderland.

[Beacool]

4. It's actually not even funny.

[The Magistrate]

5. Not Really, Ma'am

But I do tend to laugh a bit when things are going wrong....

[ballyhoo]

6. That they will...

And it won't be some lone Fencer blowing off an encroaching boat. The Russians have every right to protect their interests. But this won't get interesting until mid-July.

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. The Russians have every right to protect their interests inside Ukraine? Are theirs the only....

"interests", or do the Ukranians and their allies get to protect theirs as well?

[ballyhoo]

8. All get to protect their interests if they indeed do have real

interests, which does not include the US. And serving as Poland's Proxie does not count. So, you DD for the ones which have real interests, not pretend functionaries for the CIA or the Russian equivalent, and I will listen to the solution. But you can't continue to go around spouting the efficacy of everything the NYT Times says as gospel. Russia is not and should not give back Crimea. If East Ukraine votes a greater than 3:1 margin to go Russian then that should happen too. I want what is best for the little people as long as those little people speak up.

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. They already "spoke up". Of course, you probably won't believe cuz it doesn't come from the Kremlin.

Most in east Ukraine region against joining Russia: poll

52.2 percent of people questioned in the region, the focal point of separatist unrest that has seen pro-Moscow militants seize a string of towns, said they were against joining Russia while 27.5 percent favoured rule from Ukraine's former Soviet master Moscow.

Among the 3,200 respondents across Ukraine's entire Russian-speaking southeast, the number of those opposed to Moscow taking control rose to 69.7 percent, according to the poll from Kiev's Institute for International Sociology published in the Russian-language Weekly Mirror newspaper.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/most-in-east-ukraine-region-against-joining-russia-poll-510819

[ballyhoo]

12. France Press?

Right

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. The French had nothing to do with the poll. Did you miss this part?

"the poll from Kiev's Institute for International Sociology published in the Russian-language Weekly Mirror newspaper"

[ballyhoo]

27. DDing it now and will contact

someone in France if I am not satisfied. You have a tendancy for...

[Cha]

21. You're talkin' to a wall, Tarheel. "Facts"?! They don't need

no stinkin' facts.

[Tarheel_Dem]

24. But it's so much fun, my dear Cha.

[Cha]

31. Kick! :)

[stevenleser]

37. Everyone has legitimate interests everywhere. What is this nonsense the US has no real interests

there?

That is the voice of pure propaganda speaking. There are few places that all 180 or so countries do not have legitimate interests of some sort. Saying only the Russians and their friends in Ukraine have interests in Ukraine is an extremely slanted viewpoint.

The Russians have legitimate interests here in the US. We have legitimate interests in Russia. We have legitimate interests in Ukraine. Ukraine has legitimate interests here. Russia has legitimate interests in Ukraine. Only someone completely brainwashed would say otherwise.

[ballyhoo]

47. The US has no interest there that

precludes that of the little people there. The Russians have no interest here in the US that precludes that of the little people here. Thank you for your time and for filling another slot in my ignore list.

[stevenleser]

48. Your post made no sense and your moving the goalposts now makes even less.

I consider being placed on YOUR ignore list a badge of honor considering the kinds of links you use as evidenced by the Magistrates post upthread.

[EX500rider]

42. Far as I can see the only "interests" Russia has in the UKR. is the pipeline..

.....which nobody has tried to blow up. So F**K OFF RUSSIA.

[The Magistrate]

43. Though if Russia Invades Donets, Sir, I Expect They Will Be Blown

The vulnerability of those pipes is one of the great unspoken things in this whole matter....

[EX500rider]

44. 1st thing I would do if I was the UKR...well after mobilizing...

[The Magistrate]

45. The Problem With That, Sir, Is It Works Both Ways

Blowing the lines cuts much of western Europe's gas supply, as well as cutting much of GazProm's money. The line being taken behind the scenes towards Germany and NATO, I suspect, runs approximately like 'if you can't get Russia to back off, and keep them from invading, we won't be able to keep our hot-heads from doing something we'd all regret...'....

[EX500rider]

46. Yeah, it would suck for the EU short term...

...but they need the Russian energy boot off their throat long term anyway.

[stevenleser]

49. I guess if it has to happen, this is the best time of year.

Not as much need for oil and gas now and some time to make alternate arrangements for next winter.

[EX500rider]

9. Telling them to clear out their military from the east pretty cheeky too..

....why, to make your up coming invasion easier?

[ballyhoo]

13. And now an RAF Jet is chasing off a Russian Spy Plane.........

Do these people think everyone is stupid? The situation is this: The American Oilgarchs see the Russian Oil and Gas now slipping away from them and they will do anything, make up any story, whatever, to get Russia to war--no matter if that war is a nuke one and blows up half the world. And this is being done by government string-pullers. The entire country should be rallying against these people, but, no, they are afraid of Putin. Much better to have the US oligarchs own everything in the world so they can impoverish everyone!

[EX500rider]

15. Nice crazy fairy tale.....RT write that or you?

[ballyhoo]

17. Not RT. I have no use for RT. Sorry, I thought with

your statement "telling them to clear out their military from the east pretty cheeky too", you had more insight into what was really going on. You apparently don't. And it is by far NOT a fairy tale. That is exactly what is happening to a T. Sorry to have wasted your time. Won't happen again.

[EX500rider]

19. The US is way on the way to becoming a exporting oil producer...

.....why would we need Russia's oil? Actually with theirs off the market our oil would go up in price..and telling the Ukraine to clear the eastern part of their country while Russia moves more troops to the border region DOES seem pretty cheeky to me.

[stevenleser]

51. RT isn't pro-Russian enough for that person. nt

[EX500rider]

52. Right to Pravda? lol

[stevenleser]

63. Not Anti-American enough. Think Khruschev banging his shoe on the table saying we will bury you

that's what that poster demands.

[stevenleser]

38. That argument would work if we were arguing about being in Russia. We're talking about Ukraine.

Your attempts to twist this into being about Russian oil is as ridiculous as your attempt to spin this as the US having no legitimate interests in Ukraine.

[randys1]

26. Republican Party chooses KGB over USA

[Bosonic]

28. US rejects Lavrov's 'ludicrous' Ukraine claims

US rejects Lavrov's 'ludicrous' Ukraine claims (AFP)

The United States dismissed as "ludicrous" Wednesday claims by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov that it was funding or running an offensive in Ukraine as Washington and Moscow again traded barbs.

"I think many of the claims he made in his interview are ludicrous and they're not based in facts of what is happening on the ground," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said.

In an interview with state-controlled RT television, Lavrov had issued a blunt warning that Russia would respond if its interests were attacked in Ukraine, in a sign Moscow was upping the ante in the crisis.

Ukraine's acting president Oleksandr Turchynov late Tuesday ordered a new "anti-terrorist" operation against separatists holding a string of eastern towns after the discovery of two "brutally tortured" bodies.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/140423/us-rejects-lavrovs-ludicrous-ukraine-claims

[mia]

41. Russian Hacker Attack Seen as Possible Response to New Sanctions

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-04-26/russian-hacker-attack-seen-as-possible-response-to-new-sanctions

U.S. officials and security specialists are warning that Russian hackers may respond to new Western sanctions by attacking the computer networks of U.S. banks and other companies.

U.S. officials involved in a White House review of the effects of further penalties on Russia didn’t respond to questions about whether it explores the risk of cyber-counterattacks. Even so, two people with knowledge of the study said it includes revisiting previous classified exercises in which small numbers of computer experts showed they were able to cripple the U.S. economy in a few days.

Cybersecurity specialists consider Russian hackers among the world’s best at infiltrating networks and say there’s evidence that they already have inserted malicious software on computers in the U.S....

“A cyber-attack is a real concern that we all need to have,” Smocer said. “Nation states’ ability to launch cyber-attacks is certainly real nowadays, and so in any conflict, I think that the possibility exists as we worry about escalation.”

[RKP5637]

57. Yep, this is where it's all at IMO. n/t

[karynnj]

55. "Russia's interest" - I think this suggests the root problem here

When they speak of defending the pro-Russian separatists or Russian speakers, they are really speaking of trying to re-establish their sphere of influence. Ukraine, on the other hand, has tried hard to NOT give them genuine cause. Their actions against people taking over buildings and declaring they are mayor have been as cautious as anyone could have wanted. However, the stated "fear for the Russian leaning" is, IMO, a euphemism for rejecting Ukraine not being squarely in the Russian sphere of influence.

It was when pro Russian President rejected the improvement of ties with EU, that the protests started. The interim government came to power AFTER the President left after agreeing to a brokered deal to establish ties. One account said that the Pro Russian President left knowing that he could not win a fair election after the brokered deal. His running away and calling for Russia to invade can be seen as a strategic Russian move. Had he stayed, ties to EU would have improved and in all likelihood, Ukraine would have moved to some degree away from Russia.

That time period was fast moving and Ukraine was left leaderless. The Rada, the elected Parliament, voted to oust the President and call for elections in 90 days. In the interim, they named an interim President. Where things are confusing is not that the Parliament can impeach a President, but that the procedure was not followed as written in their Constitution. Their justification was leadership was needed.

If this is true, the Rada was left with a dilemma. How do you implement the changes agreed to by the departed President with no executive. The Rada choosing an interim President, who was NOT running in the election, set up what was probably the fairest way forward.

It may be that the differences in the believes of Russia and the US, stem from what they are seeing as the "start" of this problem.

Russia looks back to when Ukraine was part of the USSR or clearly its ally. This included the recent point when they had a pro-Russian President who rejected the EU offer because of Russian opposition and a competing Russian offer. They see any western effort to reach out to their former states as "meddling". This includes even outreach that no one in the US would consider questionable. Think of many Americans - including the SoS - arguing that Moldova can have economic ties to both Russia and the west. To Russia, this diminishes their sphere of interest.

The US sees the start either as Crimea or, at best as when the Rada called for an interim government. If you start with Crimea, ignoring anything before that, it is obvious that Russia is the aggressor. Russia has without question lied - when they said they would not take Crimea and now that they are not pushing rebellion in Eastern Ukraine. The RT equivalence of the self appointed Pro Russian separatist mayor to the Ukrainian Kiev government is beyond strange - on the order of equating Obama's authority to that of Cliven Bundy on his ranch.

It is hard to see how Russia and the US can meet on a common narrative. Looking at the Russian view, it is clear that even if there could be a fair election with both sides having completely no opposition to running or voting (yeah, a level the US does not meet), the Russians would very likely not agree. The reason is that around half the people of Ukraine (including Crimea) want ties to the west. If Crimea is excluded (because it is annexed by Russia), that proportion has to increase. That is why they had the proposal for a federation that even allowed each province their own foreign policy!

[bobthedrummer]

60. Putin calls internet a "CIA project" renewing fears of web breakup (Ewen MacAskill 4-24-14 Guardian)

Russian president's remarks fans idea that has gained ground in Germany, Brazil and elsewhere after Edward Snowden's revelations
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/vladimir-putin-web-breakup-internet-cia