Iraqi Death Scene Pics of Marines Burning Bodies Trigger U.S. Military Investigation

[davepc]

Source: TMZ

The United States military is conducting a formal investigation into American soldiers burning the dead bodies of what appear to be Iraqi insurgents.

TMZ obtained 41 pictures that we're told were shot in Fallujah in 2004. Two pictures show a Marine appearing to pour gasoline or some other flammable on the remains of what officials believe are 2 insurgents. Two other photos show the bodies on fire. You then see charred remains.

...

We have not included all of the photos. Many are just too gruesome. There are well over a dozen bodies in the pics and some are covered with flies and one is being eaten by a dog.

We turned them all over to the Pentagon last week, and a Pentagon official tells us the pics have triggered a Marine Corps investigation.

We're told U.S. Central Command -- the organization in charge of military operations in the Middle East -- also reviewed the photos to determine if they had been previously brought to their attention and determined they had not.

...




Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/15/iraq-soldier-bodies-on-fire-marines-investigation-military-photos/

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At least TMZ did the right thing by alerting the Pentagon before publishing them.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Now, which Repub dumbfucks want to keep crying that we don't have troops there anymore?

They'd be nice fat targets for retribution when these photos are widely seen--thank God we're out of there. An ugly episode in American history just got even uglier.

[gulfbreeze]

2. I immediately thought of the 2 burned bodies of Americans hanging from the bridge in March 2004

That made no sense to me. There were questions surrounding their brutal deaths and the contractor, Blackwater, deliberately sending them to their death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Helvenston

On March 27, two days before Helvenston's scheduled deployment to Iraq, McQuown reassigned him to a team leaving on the 28th, over the objections of numerous other Blackwater employees. Helvenston believed McQuown resented him and deliberately reassigned Helvenston at the last minute. In one of Helvenston's final emails before his death, he wrote to the owner of Blackwater, claiming McQuown's behavior was "very manipulative, duplicitive [sic], immature and unprofessional," with the hidden agenda "Lets [sic] see if we can screw with Scott."[1]

On March 30, McQuown sent Helvenston out with three other contractors, Jerry Zovko, Wesley Batalona and Michael Teague, to guard a convoy for ESS traveling from Baghdad to a military base west of Fallujah. They were in two unarmored vehicles and had no map.[1]

I just always thought it to be a "false flag" type of operation to enrage the American people. I know it sounds crazy but I'm curious about the dates of the photos that are now showing up.

[thefool_wa]

4. They were apparently shot in 2004 nt

[warrant46]

21. Blackwater Employees were the Stars in George Bushes drama the Rose Petal Parade

[L0oniX]

3. We would see a lot more of this if our untrustfull military gov were not keeping it from us.

This IMO is only a small fraction of what goes on behind our backs. They always hide the truth because deep down inside they know what they are doing is wrong. I used to get pictures and video from some troops I knew before the military got a clue.

[Victor_c3]

5. I'm not condoning this behavior, but war brings out the worst in people

I believe that as human beings most of us have an aversion to killing other people. When, during training, that natural aversion is removed from us, you open a door to let more than just killing happen.

Additionally, killing people does a lot to a person's psyche and their morality and feelings of right and wrong. You begin to feel comfortable with it and view life as inconsequential, meaningless, and cheap.

If you don't want to see atrocities, don't send people to war.

---- edit to add ---

About digging through pockets of the dead, that is part of procedure. You might find some valuable intelligence like a map, phone numbers, names, etc.

Also, perhaps they were burning the bodies for sanitary reasons? Several close friends of mine were in Fallujah during Operation Phantom Fury and they told me that after a couple of days of fighting that it was absolutely nasty because of the uncollected remains of insurgents rotting. However, I never heard stories of them burning the remains (or collecting them for that matter).

[The Stranger]

11. The problem is that it's an offense to all those who went to war and didn't commit war crimes.

And the old "war brings out the worst in people" apology bullshit really doesn't quite get it.

[Lasher]

14. I didn't read that as an apology.

You are entitled to your own opinion but you don't speak on behalf of all those who went to war and didn't commit crimes. Some of them would probably be offended by this but I'm pretty sure every single one would not be.

[warrant46]

22. Undisciplined thugs wearin a uniform NOT Professionals

I blame the NCOs for allowing this mindset--hell a few of them probably joined in

[Jesus Malverde]

6. This is what warriors do. I'm neither shocked nor appalled.

Somehow killing humans is only bad, if your not nice with the bodies.

Marines kill, when they lined up outside Falluja, we knew it wasn't a humanitarian mission. It was revenge for the murder and burning of some blackhawk contractors.

The message was, this is what will happen to your city, when you oppose us.

If there should be any outrage it's at the war criminals who sent these kids in harms way. They sent these Americans to kill or die for all the wrong reasons and should be held to account for their crimes.

---

Burning dead bodies with gasoline. - Outrageous

Burning living human beings with white phosphorous or hellfire missiles. - USA USA USA #1

[The Stranger]

10. No, this isn't what "warriors" do.

Just so we're clear.

Too many apologists for war crimes around here.

[Jesus Malverde]

12. These are US Marines....

Do you know what they do?

The war criminals are the leaders who sent them into an illegal war.

The war criminals are the leaders who lied to the American people.

Don't be confused who the REAL war criminals are. They wear suits and ride in limos.

[penultimate]

31. There are plenty of marines, soldiers and sailors who are 'warriors', but don't act like

unprofessional barbarians who act in ways that ultimately put themselves and their fellow servicemen in greater danger by taking actions that are counter productive.

[CFLDem]

20. So what do warriors do in your mind?

[warrant46]

23. Professionals don't do this shit

Little babies who are untrained, under trained and unsupervised do this crap.

It does nothing to accomplish the mission to sit around molesting civilians and desecrating corpses.

The officers should be disciplined for allowing this to happen.

[gwheezie]

7. need more information

If the bodies were decomposing and a health risk, then burning is an acceptable measure to take. I know different cultures including our own has death rituals, but dead is dead. I'm more outraged that we invaded a country based on lies, occupied it and killed the citizens there while losing the lives of so many of our own soldiers, for what?

[The Stranger]

9. Yeah, this wasn't the health department and it wasn't an Iraqi cultural "death ritual."

This is yet another war crime.

Just, please, for your sake, stop while you're ahead.

[gwheezie]

13. I'm not saying it wasn't a war crime

I'm saying there isn't enough information to determine that, but carry on, I'll quit now.

[delta17]

15. What were they supposed to do?

Just leave the bodies rotting on the street? Got any better solutions than this?

[polly7]

16. How about allow their families back in to collect the bodies of their loved ones! nt

[The Stranger]

8. SUPPORT THE TROOPS!

Yeah, I still remember the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS!" threads that used to appear here regularly back in 2002-2004.

[Octafish]

17. Why did the USA invade Iraq?

Anyone ever learn why?

[Ash_F]

18. Foreign Oil Companies Operating In Iraq

http://musingsoniraq.blogspot.com/2011/11/foreign-oil-companies-operating-in-iraq.html

[Octafish]

19. Thanks, Ash_F! It goes back a ways.

Know your BFEE: War and Oil are just two longtime Main Lines of Business

[AnalystInParadise]

24. Depends

The Geneva Convention proscribes against mutilating bodies. Does mutilation cover burning bodies for the prevention of disease? I was right down Route Michigan in 2004 in Khaldiyah, close enough to Fallujah to hear the battle. And since this was a siege battle, the spread of disease vectors is a real possibility.

Here is what I do know, packs of feral dogs roam many parts of Iraq, this might be the first you are hearing of it, but I know of several incidients during 2004 and then again in 2007 and 2008 when dead insurgents were burned in the course of weeks long operations to prevent the dogs from getting at them. Second point, the battle was not going to be stopped to allow families to identify bodies, this was a siege and a blockade, movement was strictly controlled and since many of the dead in Fallujah were not Iraqis (notice I didn't say all or most, I said many) no one would have collected them anyway. Third point, I don't have enough information to get outraged and knee jerk blame the military, nor do I have enough information to excuse them completely. What I do know is what I saw, and that is in many cases bodies were burned to prevent animals from getting at them.

[polly7]

25. Really?

You're saying it was some kind of compassionate act extended for the dignity of these bodies killed with the use white phosphorous and other napalm-like substances?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah,_The_Hidden_Massacre

Incendiary weapons used against personnel and civilians[edit]

The film states that the use of napalm and similar agents was banned by the United Nations in 1980 for use against civilians and also for use against military targets in proximity to civilians.

The use of white phosphorus, as a marker, smokescreen layer or as a weapon, is not banned by Protocol III of the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. What is prohibited is the use of WP as a weapon against targets in close proximity to civilians or civilian property. The protocol specifically excludes weapons whose incendiary effect is secondary, such as smoke grenades and tracer rounds, although this has been often read as excluding white phosphorus munitions from this protocol, as well. The United States is among the nations that are parties to the convention but have not signed Protocol III.[1]

The March–April 2005 online Field Artillery magazine has confirmed the use of WP (white phosphorus) in so-called "shake 'n bake" attacks, so the use of white phosphorus is substantiated by US Army sources only for screening and psychological effects: "WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with [high explosives (HE)]. We fired “shake and bake” missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out." [P.26]
Graphic visual footage of what are claimed to be WP weapons being fired from helicopters into urban areas is displayed, as well as detailed footage of the remains of those allegedly killed by these weapons, including children and women. The filmmakers interview ex US military soldier turned antiwar activist Jeff Englehart of Colorado who discusses the American use of white phosphorus, nicknamed "Willie Pete" (pre-NATO US phonetic alphabet for "WP" - White Phosphorus) by U.S. servicemembers, in built-up areas, and describes the Fallujah offensive as "just a massive killing of Arabs." Englehart spent two days in Fallujah during the battle.[2]

Following pressure from former Labour MP Alice Mahon, the British Ministry of Defence confirmed the use of MK77 by US forces during the initial invasion of Iraq.[3]

Sorry ........ I don't buy it for a second.

[AnalystInParadise]

26. No what I am saying is

that I don't have enough evidence to come to a conclusion, but in four tours in Iraq we burned dead bodies on multiple occasions to keep them from the dogs, which also keeps us safer. Packs of feral dogs were eventually made shoot on sight targets because of the danger they posed to us on our bases. So burning dead bodies keeps us safer because it gives the ferals one less reason to come near us. Secondly, burning dead bodies keeps us safer as it eliminates a source of disease. I give two shits about Iraqi insurgents and I doubt most of friends with me did either. But I could see us burn bodies to keep us safer, definitely.

[polly7]

27. I DO care about the dignity of Iraqi or any people killed anywhere, especially

during war crimes. My great uncle was captured during WW1 and died in a German prison camp. His remains have been moved twice by the people of Germany - he has a marker, they lay wreaths, it's dignified - he was a HUMAN BEING deserving to be remembered. Just as those 'insurgents' in their own fucking country! It wasn't up to you or anyone else to burn their bodies!

[AnalystInParadise]

28. We shall agree to disagree

Serve in a war and get back to me. Sorry for your uncle, he died at the hands of far better people that we faced in Iraq.

[polly7]

29. 'far better people that we faced in Iraq'.

That about says it all.

[AnalystInParadise]

30. So you fault me for valuing the soldiers I worked with more

than Iraqi insurgents? You are absolutely right that does about say it all. I valued my fellow Americans over people that were trying to kill me. I was there following legal orders, you know how I know they were legal orders? Because in 2008 my guy, my President, Barack Obama kept us there for three more years to fight and train the Iraqis. So yes I was following legal orders with my fellow citizens, and I will never be ashamed of that fact. And you nor anyone else will ever make me feel bad for caring about my friends and battle buddies and not giving a shit about the people trying to kill me. You are entitled to your opinion, I won't say you aren't entitled but that does about say it all. So please by all means continue to insult me and anyone else who served over there for not caring about the people trying to kill us. Please, continue.