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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Sun Mar 4, 2012, 07:54 PM Mar 2012

Greek default looms as voluntary debt deal looks set to fail

Source: Telegraph

European leaders are braced for the eurozone’s first ever sovereign default this week as Greece’s efforts to secure a €206bn (£172bn) “voluntary” bond swap looks increasingly unlikely.

Authorities in Athens are ready to enforce the controversial collective action clauses, or CACs, to impose the restructuring deal on all bondholders as the number of voluntary agreements look set to fall short of the required amount.

Credit rating agencies have warned they will declare Athens to be in default if the CACs are triggered which would be a dramatic culmination to a three-year rollercoaster ride for Athens, the eurozone and global markets.

While the markets have been ready for a Greek default for months, the move could leave Greece and its banks barred from funding from the European Central Bank (ECB). On Monday, Standard & Poor’s declared Greece to be in a state of “selective default” which led to the ECB announcing it would no longer accept Greek government bonds as security for new loans.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9121151/Greek-default-looms-as-voluntary-debt-deal-looks-set-to-fail.html

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Greek default looms as voluntary debt deal looks set to fail (Original Post) dipsydoodle Mar 2012 OP
The Greek People should tell the Banksters to Shut up and get the hell out of their country, Vincardog Mar 2012 #1
EGGS ACT LY ! lib2DaBone Mar 2012 #2
Word. And we should do the same damned thing here! nt TBF Mar 2012 #4
That's certainly an option, cheapdate Mar 2012 #5
The alternative is to eat grass and pay off the Banksters so they don't have to pay off their bets. Vincardog Mar 2012 #19
That is what CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #20
EggZACTLY the Banksters stole so much they need to suffer the consequences not us. Vincardog Mar 2012 #23
It will be like Germany after WWII Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #15
Du rec. Nt xchrom Mar 2012 #3
I wonder how this will effect Italy and Spain? nt Javaman Mar 2012 #6
Could it be a financial July, 1914? sofa king Mar 2012 #18
The Earth may stop spinning on its axis and orbiting the Sun if Greece defaults. AdHocSolver Mar 2012 #7
Greece, I have just one word for you: ''ICELAND'' DeSwiss Mar 2012 #8
When Icelandic people stood up I was so happy! They did snappyturtle Mar 2012 #11
Iceland is different; that was deposits in the banks that they were refusing to repay muriel_volestrangler Mar 2012 #12
Iceland did not default on its sovereign debt. nt Snake Alchemist Mar 2012 #14
Only fraudulent bankers are too big to fail JJW Mar 2012 #9
Spam deleted by NRaleighLiberal (MIR Team) ghjtydger Mar 2012 #10
I wish I understood this. DCBob Mar 2012 #13
In a sentence, can someone tell me HOW or WHY Greece got into this mess? n/t patricia92243 Mar 2012 #16
In David Copperfield dipsydoodle Mar 2012 #17
They ran out of OPM. CAPHAVOC Mar 2012 #21
The Euro is a scam against the smaller countries. modem77 Mar 2012 #22

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
1. The Greek People should tell the Banksters to Shut up and get the hell out of their country,
Sun Mar 4, 2012, 08:06 PM
Mar 2012

Shove the austerity BS up where the sun don't shine.

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
5. That's certainly an option,
Sun Mar 4, 2012, 09:52 PM
Mar 2012

but it might make it challenging for Greece to acquire goods, services, commodities, products, equipment, etc., that come from outside the country.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
19. The alternative is to eat grass and pay off the Banksters so they don't have to pay off their bets.
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 01:20 PM
Mar 2012

The worst thing to come out of this (in the economic Royals minds) is that they have to pay off the Credit Default insurance they issued. The problem is that they have issued in total over 700 Trillion of them more than 100 times the Gross World Product.
Something has to give. I believe it is the Banksters and their immoral illegitimate manufactured "profits"

 

CAPHAVOC

(1,138 posts)
20. That is what
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 03:57 PM
Mar 2012

This is all about anyway. CDS payouts. Greece should follow the lead of Iceland and run them all out of the country. Besides the CDS payers can't cover them.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
23. EggZACTLY the Banksters stole so much they need to suffer the consequences not us.
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 06:15 PM
Mar 2012

There is no way we can cut enough to make up for their bad gambles.
If we could they would just gamble some more until we couldn't make it up again.
It is a never ending useless black hole.

 

Snake Alchemist

(3,318 posts)
15. It will be like Germany after WWII
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 08:18 AM
Mar 2012

A wheelbarrow of drachma will buy a loaf of bread. Probably better in the long term though.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
18. Could it be a financial July, 1914?
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 09:33 AM
Mar 2012

Then, an overlapping net of alliances, treaties, and secret agreements dragged all of Europe and much of the world into cataclysmic warfare.

Do I see the same thing happening here? Everyone tied to the guy holding the anchor?

AdHocSolver

(2,561 posts)
7. The Earth may stop spinning on its axis and orbiting the Sun if Greece defaults.
Sun Mar 4, 2012, 09:58 PM
Mar 2012

Or, maybe not.

The banksters have been "threatening" dire results for Greece if it defaults.

Maybe the dire results will be to the banksters who promoted loans that they knew would be problematic to repay.

If Greece defaults and Earth still continues to orbit the Sun, the reaction of others in debt may not be so beneficial to the banksters.

Just, saying.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
8. Greece, I have just one word for you: ''ICELAND''
Sun Mar 4, 2012, 10:08 PM
Mar 2012
Iceland Showed The World How To Become Free

Contrary to what could be expected, the crisis resulted in Icelanders recovering their sovereign rights, through a process of direct participatory democracy that eventually led to a new Constitution. But only after much pain. Geir Haarde, the Prime Minister of a Social Democratic coalition government, negotiated a two million one hundred thousand dollar loan, to which the Nordic countries added another two and a half million. But the foreign financial community pressured Iceland to impose drastic measures. The IMF and the European Union wanted to take over its debt, claiming this was the only way for the country to pay back Holland and Great Britain, who had promised to reimburse their citizens.

Protests and riots continued, eventually forcing the Icelandic government to resign. Elections were brought forward to April 2009, resulting in a left-wing coalition which condemned the neoliberal economic system, but immediately gave in to IMF demands that Iceland pay off a total of three and a half million Euros. This required each Icelandic citizen to pay 100 Euros a month (or about $130) for fifteen years, at 5.5% interest, to pay off a debt incurred by private parties vis a vis other private parties. It was the straw that broke the reindeer’s back.

What happened next was extraordinary. The belief that citizens had to pay for the mistakes of a financial monopoly, that an entire nation must be taxed to pay off private debts was shattered, transforming the relationship between citizens and their political institutions and eventually driving Iceland’s leaders to the side of their constituents. The Head of State, Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, refused to ratify the law that would have made Iceland’s citizens responsible for its bankers’ debts, and accepted calls for a referendum.

In the March 2010 referendum, 93% of Icelanders voted against repayment of the banker's debts. The IMF immediately froze its loan. But the revolution (though not televised in the United States), would not be intimidated. With the support of a furious citizenry, the government launched civil and penal investigations into those responsible for the financial crisis. Interpol put out an international arrest warrant for the ex-president of Kaupthing, Sigurdur Einarsson, as the other bankers implicated in the crash fled the country. But Icelanders didn't stop there: they decided to draft a new constitution that would free the country from the exaggerated power of international finance and virtual money. link


- Iceland has shown the whole world the way. Like the rest of us, they'd forgotten one doesn't reward thieves by giving them more of your money when they demand it. Then their memory came back and they picked up some rocks and had a little talk with their government. The bankers fled to England in horror. The Icelanders have remembered that you're supposed to arrest these kind of fraudsters and put them into prison where they belong. Because doing anything less just creates chaos in the system. We lose our sense of right and wrong.

If we just but took the time to consider the whole idea of Capitalism, totally unsustainable as it is, we'd conclude that this is always going to happen to everyone, eventually. This is what happens when you allow private interests to control your nation's monetary system. And worse, to allow them to create money out of nothing. Which is how fractional banking systems work. Of course, what they're really after, is the GOLD. So when the whole thing collapses in on itself, they'll be holding the most.

Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain (The PIIGS) -- in a debt-based monetary system, those with the most debt actually have the most power. And acting together, you could bring down the whole shebang. Which is an idea that should also not be lost on us......

K&R

''There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.''

~John Adams 1735-1826


snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
11. When Icelandic people stood up I was so happy! They did
Sun Mar 4, 2012, 11:11 PM
Mar 2012

what others on this planet must do: Lay the blame on those
who caused the problems AND make them responsible.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,307 posts)
12. Iceland is different; that was deposits in the banks that they were refusing to repay
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 06:04 AM
Mar 2012

The problem in Greece is not that Greek banks took in money from savers and then leant it out in dodgy deals; it's that the Greek government borrowed more than it could sustain, and hid it (through dodgy deals).

What Iceland did was refuse to refund the first €20,000 to each foreign saver (Icelandic law had set up a fund for this; it just wasn't big enough to cope with all 3 Icelandic banks collapsing together, so they used it for domestic depositors only). There's a lot of difference between saying "we won't repay the savings put into our banks", and "we won't repay the money our government borrowed". The former means that small savers won't trust Icelandic banks as a place to put their money for some time, which may mean Icelandic banks are not going to be major corporations any time in the near future; the latter means that international banks and investors won't trust the Greek government - which gives that government problems in running the country, paying pensions, and so on.

The refrain of "Greece should do what Iceland did" is irrelevant. It's just not the same situation.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
13. I wish I understood this.
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 06:27 AM
Mar 2012

-- “voluntary” bond swap looks increasingly unlikely

-- enforce the controversial collective action clauses, or CACs

-- the number of voluntary agreements look set to fall short of the required amount

-- they will declare Athens to be in default if the CACs are triggered

-- Greece to be in a state of “selective default”

Its all Greek to me.. but it sure doesnt sound good.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
17. In David Copperfield
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 09:29 AM
Mar 2012

Mr Micawber said "annual income £1 annual expenditure 19 shillings and six pence result happiness : annual income £1 annual expenditure 20 shillings and six pence result misery"

They done the latter. Maybe they should've read David Copperfield.

modem77

(191 posts)
22. The Euro is a scam against the smaller countries.
Mon Mar 5, 2012, 04:48 PM
Mar 2012

The only country that benefits from the Euro is Germany.

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