HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Kan. proof-of-citizenship...

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:30 AM

 

Kan. proof-of-citizenship law targeting fraud puts voting rights in limbo for 15,000 residents

Source: AP

TOPEKA, Kan. — A few weeks after moving to suburban Kansas City from the Seattle area, Aaron Belenky went online to register to vote but ended up joining thousands of other Kansas residents whose voting rights are in legal limbo because of the state’s new proof-of-citizenship rule.

Starting this year, new voters aren’t legally registered in Kansas until they’ve presented a birth certificate, passport or other document demonstrating U.S. citizenship. Kansas is among a handful of GOP-dominated states enacting such a rule to keep noncitizens from voting, but the most visible result so far is a growing pool of nearly 15,000 residents who’ve filled out registration forms but can’t legally cast ballots yet.

Critics of the law point out that the number of people whose registrations aren’t yet validated — and who are blocked from voting — far outpaces the few hundred ballots over the last 15 years that Kansas officials have reported as potentially tainted by irregularities. Preventing election fraud was often cited as the reason for enacting the law.

Belenky, a 39-year-old computer programmer, has his birth certificate and a passport but said he’d have to open and rifle through boxes in his Overland Park apartment to find them and comply with a rule that doesn’t exist across most of the rest of the nation. And now, the prospective Kansas Democrat is irritated enough that he is ready to join a legal challenge.

Read more: http://m.washingtonpost.com/national/kan-proof-of-citizenship-law-targeting-fraud-puts-voting-rights-in-limbo-for-15000-residents/2013/08/15/e3d082c8-057a-11e3-bfc5-406b928603b2_story.htmlLink to source

22 replies, 2974 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Kan. proof-of-citizenship law targeting fraud puts voting rights in limbo for 15,000 residents (Original post)
East Coast Pirate Aug 2013 OP
SoCalDem Aug 2013 #1
CBHagman Aug 2013 #7
LonePirate Aug 2013 #8
DallasNE Aug 2013 #2
BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #3
FlaGranny Aug 2013 #12
theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #16
Sivafae Aug 2013 #22
tazkcmo Aug 2013 #4
Igel Aug 2013 #14
zbdent Aug 2013 #5
warrant46 Aug 2013 #6
grilled onions Aug 2013 #9
maindawg Aug 2013 #10
sgsmith Aug 2013 #11
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #13
beemer27 Aug 2013 #15
Gormy Cuss Aug 2013 #18
Igel Aug 2013 #17
bossy22 Aug 2013 #19
Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #21
bossy22 Aug 2013 #20

Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 03:42 AM

1. Thankfully they apparently know where these 15K are

sp the democratic leaders in the state have time to GET THESE PEOPLE THE ID THEY WILL NEED..

Cheaper and quicker than lawsuits, and the upside is that these folks will now have ID.

The insane part of this issue is that when a CHANGE is done to voter requirements, everyone who has previously voted should be grandfathered in...and ultimately we need a FEDERAL standardization of any office that sends the winner to DC.. Standard ballot, with names in alphabetical order..and a FEDERAL voter ID number for voting in those contests.

If the state locals want to knock themselves out with draconian measures to select the dg catcher/mayor/etc.. that's their business..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SoCalDem (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 06:36 AM

7. The voter ID laws and the like are part of an organized effort...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SoCalDem (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:02 AM

8. The Sec. of State in KS is now pushing a two-tiered system of fed voters and state voters

Yes, the SoS (Kobach of immigration infamy) is perfectly fine with having a group of citizens that can only vote in federal elections while having another group that meets all of these new draconian requirements who can vote in both federal and state/local elections.

He is certifiably nuts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 04:29 AM

2. He Would Be Better Off

Just paying the $30 to get a duplicate birth certificate. A woman with a name change would likely have to show a marriage license with the name change. There will be additional problems when they go to vote too because the State ID (drivers license) must have the same address as what is on the registration book and with people that move the ID they have will not allow them to vote. Renters, they are coming after you too. The 15,000 identified here are just those on the front end (registration) so the number will go up hugely on the back end (voter ID issues). Even a low population state like Kansas could disenfranchise 100,000 otherwise eligible voters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DallasNE (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 04:55 AM

3. " Just paying the $30 to get a duplicate birth certificate."

For voting purposes, this would constitute a "poll tax" in violation of the 24th amendment of the Constitution.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DallasNE (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:33 AM

12. This really messes up women.

What you need to supply is a birth certificate, marriage license, death certificate or divorce papers for every marriage, in addition to other requirements. For instance a married couple usually has utility bills in the husband's name, so how is the wife supposed to come up with a utility bill in her name?

Just imagine the nightmare for an elderly woman who might not have most of these items in her possession, has been married more than once, and who doesn't know how to begin getting the required documents. It takes time and it takes work and many would need help to get them. The cost of doing all this for 2 marriages at $30 for each document would be about $150.00.

I went through all that 2 years ago and now, according to the State of Florida, I am a bona fide citizen. I even have a little gold star on my driver's license to prove it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FlaGranny (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:16 AM

16. Great post, FlaGranny!

You've outlined exactly the kind of hurdles these laws present, especially for women and those on limited incomes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FlaGranny (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 05:49 PM

22. This is the reason I have been hesitating changing my name now that I am married. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 05:44 AM

4. While I support Demcocratic efforts to stop continueing voting rights erosion

that these laws are intended to do I certainly wish they'd stop talking to lazy ass O.P. suburbanites that dare to complain about having "to open and rifle through boxes in his Overland Park apartment to find them" . I don't like these laws almost as much as I don't like lazy ass Overland Park suburbanites. Dude, open the boxes. Rifle through them. You don't help the cause when you complain about being inconvenienced. There are bigger issues involved like the cost (and REAL hassle) of birth certificate replacement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tazkcmo (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:53 AM

14. Perhaps one DUer's suggestion is spot-on.

The Democractic Party can send somebody to help him get the necessary documents. I'm sure there's somebody who'd be willing to rummage through all his stuff to find it, since it's too much of an inconvenience to be able to vote.

People used to routinely take off time to vote. Schedule trips around voting. In thinly populated areas, go miles to vote.

Now it's vote by mail, early voting, extended voting, etc., etc. And the percentage voting hasn't increased hardly at all. I wonder if it would increase appreciably if we showed up at people's homes and workplaces with the ballots and necessary equipment (whether paper/pencil or voting machine) and asked them nicely to please vote.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 06:13 AM

5. Yeah, this will work out nicely because we all know that people who vote for

Republicans sure know how to identify a "legitimate" birth certificate ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zbdent (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 06:18 AM

6. LOL-- NT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:09 AM

9. Votes Don't Mean Much Anymore To The Politician

There was a day when he(or she) counted on votes to get into office so they pushed voting and getting new voters however today so many are bought into office by their corporate sponsors they really don't want votes getting in the way and really don't want the opposing votes to clutter up their political ambitions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:21 AM

10. the way to fight this is through the courts

 

These states that are enacting unconstitutional laws should be made to spend millions of their tax dollars to defend them. After the dust has settled and the people realize the wasted public resources they will have learned or, the supreme court will have to explain its own dismantling of our constitution. Then change will be possible.
To say these voters should comply with unconstitutional illegal laws is wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:31 AM

11. I'm confused

 

So the computer programmer guy has the documentation that's needed to prove citizenship, but he's too lazy to look through boxes in his apartment?

Sorry - not much compassion from me on this one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sgsmith (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 07:42 AM

13. Someone with that attitude is probably a Libtard anyway so, meh, who needs them? - nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sgsmith (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:10 AM

15. I agree

sgsmith,
Our view of this situation will not be very popular here, but you got it spot on. If this guy is too lazy to open a few boxes to find his passport or birth certificate, perhaps he shouldn't be voting. The fact that he is a Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with it. Voting is a right that we all have, and the people voting have an obligation to find out the facts, study the candidates, and make an intelligent decision. If this guy will not spend the time necessary to find something as simple as these simple documents, he sure is not going to do the research needed to make an informed vote. The right to vote is is one of our most important constitutional guarantees, and it should be important enough to this guy to spend the ten or fifteen minutes to find his documentation.
If you like the law or not is a whole different subject. The law has been passed, and is being enforced. It does not require too much effort on his part, and the ten minutes needed to find his documents is not too much to ask.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sgsmith (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:27 AM

18. Too lazy?

Congratulations. You're focusing on the wrong part of the equation just as the GOP had hoped.
The issue isn't whether the guy is too lazy to produce citizenship documents, it's whether it should be allowed as a condition for transferring voter registration. in the first place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 08:16 AM

17. Wanted to be outraged.

Have this rule for myself: Prior to outrage, first get facts. Never assume that an advocacy article is going to provide the facts for understanding, just the facts for producing outrage.

So in Kansas the law was passed in 2011.

Drivers license or state ID is good.

Concealed weapons permit.

Birth certificate or passport is good.

A photo ID issued by a state or government agency is good--so if you work for the government, you're in.

A student photo ID issued by a certified post-secondary educational institution is also good.

A government public assistance ID is good. Got SNAP? You're in.

And the list continues.

The list continues.

I pity the guy who manages to have none of these. They're not going to be very common.

As for the claim that it's going to disenfranchise those whose DL and address don't match. Sorry, you have a DL you're required to keep the address updated. That's usually the law.

And if you really can't find anything because they're all irretrievably lost or never existed, there's a process to request the state elections board to consider you a citizen for voting purposes. If you're incapacitated, a letter, a form, and some corroborating documents would probably do the trick. (Guaranteed? No. But until you try, saying that it would obviously not succeed so it's a waste of time is just an excuse for inaction.)

I seriously have trouble believing that those 15000 since 1/1/13 all lack any ID. However, just as the article says birth certificate, passport, or "other document" (for example, a college ID or DL), so also it doesn't say those 15k don't have those documents. Just that they haven't presented them.

And while this requirement isn't in place across most of the country, 11 states have laws on the books with 7 of them waiting to be implemented. And another 8 have photo ID but presenting it every time you vote isn't a requirement. (That's as of 4/10. I suspect the # of states might have increased by one or two since then.)

i'm less outraged than I would have been. Now I need to see how many people are actually disenfranchised, not just mildly inconvenienced by having to actually take the time to present IDs that they have or can find in a few minutes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Igel (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:53 AM

19. i agree...

As an adult you are expected to understand rights come with responsibility...and one of those responsibilities is having a valid identification. This is something everyone should have...you need it for so many everyday life activities. I'm really curious to see who is truly disinfranchised by this law and not just because they are lazy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Igel (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 02:21 PM

21. It still worries me that the GOP has such a hard-on for fighting "voter fraud"

all of a sudden...

Remember, on paper the USSC ruling on Citizens United was supposed to be a "good" thing because unions now had more freedom to financially support candidates of their choice (at least that was how it was spun)...This whole charade is just for throwing up obstacles to shrink the electorate...The more hurdles to jump, the less likely some people will want to deal with them...

Even if the eligible voters per capita shrinks only 1-2% next fall the program is a GOP success; because they can *always* justify more hurdles to prop up which will gradually shave off another couple percentage points -- What's next? Requiring a bank account? Proof of good financial standing? Requiring proof of steady employment??

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to East Coast Pirate (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:59 AM

20. this computer programmer is lazy

He should take 20 minutes and go look through his stuff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread