WaPo: Russia says Assad wants dialogue; Syria continues shelling as nations recall envoys

[Boombaby]

DAMASCUS, Syria — Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is “completely committed” to stopping fighting in the country, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday after discussions with Assad aimed at halting mounting violence.

Lavrov’s meeting with Assad came even as France, Italy and six Arab countries recalled their ambassadors for consultations over the worsening situation and an artillery bombardment continued for a fifth day in the restive city of Homs.

Italy, in a statement, strongly condemned “the unacceptable violence perpetrated by the regime in Damascus against the civilian population.”

Members of the Gulf Cooperation Council — Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Qatar — also announced they were recalling their ambassadors and were expelling Syria’s diplomatic envoys. “Nearly a year into the crisis, there is no glint of hope in a solution,” the council said in a statement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russian-foreign-minister-visits-syria-as-shelling-continues/2012/02/07/gIQAx438vQ_story.html?hpid=z4

Dialogue, Mr Lavrov? Are you sure he didn't say "die a lot"? Cuz that's what the Syrian people have been doing lately.

[TheWraith]

1. "Dialog." What a pile of horseshit.

Assad wants to kill the people who refuse to live under his boot heel.

[Fool Count]

7. Yeah, sure, because getting together and negotiating a peaceful transition with

internationally monitored free democratic elections would be so terrible, it can't be allowed to happen.
Just like in Libya, a protracted civil war with thousands killed resulting in a country ruled by gangs
of criminal thugs will be so much more fun. Maybe for Qataris it will be, but not for Syrians.

[rayofreason]

10. No peaceful transition possible.

In this part of the world "a peaceful transition" translates as "rest in peace."

Assad, his cronies, their families, friends, relatives, all know that unless Assad survives, they collectively won't. So they will fight to the bitter end. And why should Assad believe any foreign guarantees about exile anyway. Pinochet was legally hounded after he left Chile, so why wouldn't Assad be as well? Even if he went to Iran or Venezuela, his victims would come after his bank accounts, and if there was a change of government in those places, the new guys might not be as friendly.

No, there is everything to lose, and everything to gain.

They will fight, it will get worse, and the slaughter after the fall of Assad will make the Libyan stories look like a walk in the park. If I were a Syrian Alawite, I'd be trying to get out now while I could, even if I had no connection to the regime.

[TheWraith]

12. A peaceful transition is what the Russians are vetoing.

While their friend Assad slaughters thousands of people who want those free and democratic elections in the hopes of remaining dictator awhile longer.

[joshcryer]

17. Both sides want a "peaceful transition" on their own terms. The UN made up terms...

...which China and Russia, predictably, vetoed. The UN terms were closer to what the opposition would have wanted, however, as it meant Assad's ouster.

There's no such thing as a dictator getting legitimately elected.

[David__77]

19. And does that mean that someone who receives 50%+1 of the votes cannot be a "dictator?"

And does that mean that a dictator cannot subsequently be democratically elected?

[joshcryer]

21. That depends on the powers that they're granted.

I think that certainly autocrats can be subsequently elected.

But I do not think there exist any examples for an overt, non-elected individual later on coming to be elected via majority.

You might consider Chavez that but I don't consider him a dictator. Can't think of anyone.

[Centrik]

2. totally agree

All Assad's doing is buying time with Russia and China's help.

[Obama3_16]

3. No difference between Assad and the right wing in this country

[rayofreason]

4. What a stupid comment.

If you cannot see the difference between political differences resolved through elections and wholesale shelling of cities then you really are ignorant beyond belief.

What is worse, such idiocy trivializes what is happening in Syria, to compare it with things such as legals challenges over gay marriage, Obamacare, or any other right/left issue in the US.

[Obama3_16]

6. you are entitled to your opinion. Only difference is right wing does have opposition

if they could get away with permanent majority like Rove dreamed about, it would be very short span of time before the U.S. government is shelling their own cities and killing their own civilians.

If U.S. people stopped propping up corporate America and went their own way, I can guarantee they will stoop to violence to stem that tide.

Don't kid yourself.

[rayofreason]

8. Overwrought nonsensical imaginations.

Never in the history of the US, except perhaps during the Civil War, has there been anything even close to the violence we see in Syria today. Today there is nothing even close to the issues that tore the nation apart in 1860. And even then, during the war there was never a purposeful slaughter like what happened in Hama in 1982 or what is happening in Homs now. Instead, the leader of the victorious Union armies said

With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan—to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves, and with all nations.

That is not the point of view of Assad.

To trivialize the slaughter in Syria by making vague, ahistorical and ludicrous accusations against "corporate America" is the worst kind of sloppy thinking and evidences a mind that has no conception of reality and no sense of compassion for the victims of a truly despotic regime.

[rayofreason]

5. My friend just talked to her parents in Homs today.

The shelling is intense. They cannot sleep, and another daughter (my friends sister) had her apartment destroyed when a tank fired into the building.

Children are being shot down in the streets. Everyone is very afraid that this will turn into another Hama, where 20,000 -40,000 were slaughtered by the previous Assad.

[joshcryer]

15. Best wishes to your friends' parents.

[rayofreason]

23. Thanks n/t.

[bemildred]

9. "Say Hello to my little friend."

That kind of dialog.

[cbrer]

11. This is another example

Of what happens when Governments play with people's lives.

Enlightenment is still a long way off.

[Snake Alchemist]

13. He just wants time to finish the job. nt

[David__77]

14. People here were all for talks when the name was Saddam Hussein.

People were applauding Putin's efforts to prevent Western intervention against Iraq. Today, with Obama in the white house, there are many cheerleading for intervention and escalation, completely dismissing Russia's diplomatic efforts, which are very similar to those employed regarding Iraq.

I think that a Republican in the presidency activates anti-war Democrats, and a Democrat in the presidency emboldens the pro-war Democrats to speak out.

[joshcryer]

16. I applaud Obama for not acting unilaterally as Bush did.

I still grieve for the oppressed in Syria.

And if there was an international move to intervene, I would defend it, as all peoples who are suffering deserve a chance.

[David__77]

18. That's principled...

I recall conducting a poll on DU in 2003 asking if people would support US-led intervention against Iraq in case it were approved by the security council (this was the run-up to the war), and a large majority said "no." There is a little personalism going on for some people, I suspect.

It comforts people to think that this is "Assad vs. 'the People'" but it's so much more complicated than that. I am hopeful that there can be a negotiated solution, free from outside interference from any quarter. That probably isn't possible, however. More likely is a war of attrition.

[joshcryer]

20. For what it's worth, I would've voted no on that too.

But, I was informed of the situation at that time, we had Resolution 1441 (I think it was), and the UN did not appear to be showing any indications that they were amused by Bush's saber rattling. So there's an element of confirmation bias there. I'd vote no because I'd disagree with the Security Council, not because I base all my judgments on what the Security Council does.

It's not like I judge a situation based solely on what the UN Security Council says, though.

The Security Council made the right move there, imho, and hopefully we can send Bush to the Hague one day for it.

[riderinthestorm]

22. Robert Fisks latest article is a must read. From Washington this looks like Syria's 'Benghazi"...

Robert Fisk: From Washington this looks like Syria's 'Benghazi moment'. But not from here
President Bashar al-Assad is not about to go. Not yet. Not, maybe, for quite a long time. Newspapers in the Middle East are filled with stories about whether or not this is Assad's "Benghazi moment" – these reports are almost invariably written from Washington or London or Paris – but few in the region understand how we Westerners can get it so wrong. The old saw has to be repeated and repeated: Egypt was not Tunisia; Bahrain was not Egypt; Yemen was not Bahrain; Libya was not Yemen. And Syria is very definitely not Libya.

...

But look east, and what does Bashar see? Loyal Iran standing with him. Loyal Iraq – Iran's new best friend in the Arab world – refusing to impose sanctions. And to the west, loyal little Lebanon refusing to impose sanctions. Thus from the border of Afghanistan to the Mediterranean, Assad has a straight line of alliances which should prevent, at least, his economic collapse.

...

As long as Syria can trade with Iraq, it can trade with Iran and, of course, it can trade with Lebanon. The Shia of Iran and the Shia majority in Iraq and the Shia leadership (though not majority) in Syria and the Shia (the largest community, but not a majority) in Lebanon will be on Assad's side, however reluctantly. That, I'm afraid, is the way the cookie crumbles. Crazed Gaddafi had real enemies with firepower and Nato. Assad's enemies have Kalashnikovs and no Nato.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-from-washington-this-looks-like-syrias-benghazi-moment-but-not-from-here-6612093.html
4

[cqo_000]

24. The Syrian Rebels are troublemakers!

The rebels should lay down their arms for the good of the Syrian people!

[Selatius]

25. Fisk is right. Assad has far stronger foreign relations than Gaddafi ever had.

Isolating Assad would be a major element in removing him from power, but if trade routes through the sea (Tartus, Latakia, and Lebanon) and land (Iraq and Iran) remain open, a weapons embargo would never work to starve the Syrian military or even an economic embargo (China and Russia would veto such an embargo) to crash the Syrian economy to the point where people would rebel if only to stop the economic bleeding.

Assad will fall only if someone puts a bullet in his head, but Assad is a smart individual. He will allow nobody who is questionable anywhere near his presence. Only loyal generals, followers, and family members get to be close to him. It would take an army to overrun the presidential palace where he is holed up because he has an army defending his compound and all of Damascus.

[pampango]

26. Syrian activists report dozens more deaths and movement of tanks deeper into residential areas

after days of shelling.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/20122854220167748.html

The Syrian military is reportedly moving deeper into residential areas in the city of Homs, a day after the Russian foreign minister said President Bashar al-Assad was "fully committed" to ending the bloodshed.

Activists said the army was firing rockets and mortar rounds to subdue opposition districts on Wednesday, as tanks entered the Inshaat neighbourhood and moved closer to Bab Amr. An activist in Bab Amr told Al Jazeera that the neighbourhood had been under fire for several days. The army is "shelling us, using rockets, using mortars, using Russian tanks," he said. "Tanks are trying to break into the neighbourhood of Bab Amr."

UN rights chief Navi Pillay called for urgent international action to protect civilians in Syria.

"I am appalled by the Syrian government's wilful assault on Homs, and its use of artillery and other heavy weaponry in what appear to be indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas in the city," a statement from Pillay said. "The failure of the Security Council to agree on firm collective action appears to have fuelled the Syrian government's readiness to massacre its own people in an effort to crush dissent."