Ex-Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher dies
Source: BBC
Former Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher has died at 87 following a stroke, her spokesman has said.
Lord Bell said: "It is with great sadness that Mark and Carol Thatcher announced that their mother Baroness Thatcher died peacefully following a stroke this morning."
Baroness Thatcher was Conservative prime minister from 1979 to 1990.
She was the first woman to hold the post. Her family is expected to make a further statement later.
Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155
Former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has died from a stroke
https://twitter.com/AP/status/321229115447468033
BumRushDaShow
(126,625 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)Champion Jack
(5,378 posts)It's one of those weeks
Ghost of Tom Joad
(1,352 posts)DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)go gently into the night Prime Minister
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)but give her credit for being the first female Prime Minister. Also, excellent job with the Falklands war.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)No one is perfect. She did what she could.
KatyMan
(4,118 posts)to ruin Britain?? Yes, she did that.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)KatyMan
(4,118 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)I was only thinking of her as a human being.
KatyMan
(4,118 posts)Not all human beings are good people. Some are evil.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)As a survivor, I can show compassion to many but not all.
I am sorry for your troubles in life that her actions cause you.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)and in that, she succeeded brilliantly.
She may have deluded herself into believing that serving the rich was serving Britain, but her legacy of austerity and dismantling of the social safety net lives on, to the great suffering of millions.
My condolences to her family, but her actions were self-serving and corrosive to society.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Not you. Obviously.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)I actually share that desire.
But I can look for redeeming qualities in Thatcher but her governance and policies is not where I'd look because I find them abhorrent.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)So ... now I do agree with you.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)she did what she could.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Can I suggest you may wish to do a little research into that insane little event.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and got their asses handed to them. As a result of which Mrs Thatcher was re-elected in a landslide victory.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)But maybe dig a little deeper--
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)based on what legal principle? Oh yeah, "right of conquest". Pretty much the same reason they are holding on to Northern Ireland.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)If not, why not?
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)unless we are willing to pay the remaining indigenous tribes the fair market value of the land we stole.
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)There are no indigenous inhabitants.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)And end the matter.
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)However after seizing them by military force I'm just going to say fuck Argentina in regards to them. They've lost any moral standindg they ever might've had (which I'll dispute). The inhabitants of the Falklands have clearly shown they want to be British and want Argentina to fuck off.
Besides thanks to that the military junta in Argentina was toppled. That alone is something that I consider far more important than whoever governs those islands.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Yeah, Argentina was wrong to seize the islands, but the question is, does Britain want to end the matter, or continue to leave it dangling? Britain's imperial sins are legion, and it, along with the U.S., do not have clean hands as far as Argentina's military junta is concerned. At this point it is hard to find ANY nation with moral standing, so isn't it time for some of the worst offenders to start behaving morally?
Britain certainly needs to leave Northern Ireland, yet still refuses. At least by paying for the Falklands it would finally have an unambiguous claim.
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)The Brits do have one solid justification for holding the Falklands, it's quite obvious who the residents of the islands support and want to be governed by.
Beacool
(30,243 posts)if Britain hadn't taken the islands from Argentina in the mid 19th century. The British were as bad as the Spanish, vultures that took whatever they wanted due to their military power. Look at how the British treated the people of Ireland and India. They committed genocide with impunity for centuries.
As for the Spaniards, they decimated every native tribe that they found in their path (Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, etc.)
A pox on their heads!!!!
BTW, I'm referring to these countries' governments. I have nothing against the people of Spain (heck, I have family there) or Britain.
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)Most make no sense to rectify because the current population wouldn't approve. At least on the Falklands there was no genocide because there are no indigenous inhabitants. If you are going to propose rolling back every single territorial change in the last 150 years, there's going to be some far bigger ones than the Falklands.
And that's not even getting started on the absurdity of effectively punishing the Islands' current inhabitants for something over a century old.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)But from what I read, the Falklands wasn't inhabited until the British (and later the French) established a colony in the 18th Century.
My personal view is that former imperialist nations should simply return land they stole from other people OR make fair restitution.
In the case of the Falklands, the inhabitants wish to remain in the British Commonwealth. Fine, then PAY Argentina a fair price for the islands and have them sign over the title.
LeftishBrit
(41,175 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)
the whole thing might never have happened if our government, specifically John Nott the Defence Secretary, had not announced the withdrawal of our ships from the South Atlantic. People from the Navy warned at the time that this might give a signal to Argentina that it was safe to invade. And their warnings were proved right. The invasion probably wouldn't have happened with a bit of common sense and proper planning on the part of our Defence Department.
Anyway this could hardly outweigh all the harm she did at home. Incidentally a 'landslide victory' means 42.4% of the vote, and a lot of this was due to divisions and infighting on the left, rather than any positive achievement by Thatcher.
Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #5)
Post removed
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Just kidding! Instead, I will post another picture of Billy Bragg's mansion:
Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #53)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #56)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,083 posts)unless shw could cut them even more:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2488513.stm
That was written in 2002, when it was £75.50. Meanwhile, her Tory successors switched the state pension from RPI to the lower CPI.
LeftishBrit
(41,175 posts)Beacool
(30,243 posts)That's one thing that the Pirates of the Sea were always good at, taking over other people's land.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I think we should give it back.
Beacool
(30,243 posts)The Europeans took their lands from Canada in the North to Argentina and Chile in the South.
That still does not excuse colonial powers from taking land from other independent nations. At the time, Argentina was already a sovereign nation and they had a garrison on the islands. The British surrounded them and gave them 24 hrs. to vacate the islands.
I attended a high school run by Argentine/Irish nuns in Buenos Aires. Double whammy, they liked the Brits as much as they liked the plague. So I have strong feelings on the subject.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Beacool
(30,243 posts)Argentina became one of the first nations in the continent to become independent from Spain. Their independence day was July 9, 1816.
And yes, the Spaniards did displace the indigenous peoples in the process. Which is ironic in itself.
Beacool
(30,243 posts)Furthermore, in 1809 and 1810 the British invaded Buenos Aires and tried to take control of the city away from the Spaniards. The population was able to repel the invaders twice. They were so disgusted with the Spaniards' performance during both British invasions, that they declared that from then on they would be governed by "criollos" (people of Spanish ascendancy, but born in the colony). That upheaval became known as the "Revolucion de Mayo". It took place on May 25th, 1810. On July 9, 1816 the Declaration of Independence was finally signed in Tucuman (about 800 miles from Bs. As.).
Forgot to add, there's a big tower in downtown Buenos Aires near a railway station that was given to the Argentines by the British government in 1910 to commemorate the May Revolution of 1810. The tower is called "La Torre de los Ingleses".
Here's a link to info. on the tower:
http://www.andrewcusack.com/2006/01/14/the-english-tower-and-kavanagh-building/
Here's the Wikepedia link on Argentina. Notice the independence date.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)They have no indigenous inhabitants.
PolitFreak
(236 posts)I think we've forgotten that you can disagree with somebody's politics without hating them. This mostly occurs on the right here, though I've seen a few cases on the left, too.
Response to PolitFreak (Reply #75)
Name removed Message auto-removed
LeftishBrit
(41,175 posts)She destroyed the mining industry in the UK - and other industries too - out of spite against the unions.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the people who consider her heroes for what she did to the poor, to the unions, to her enemies, will be touting those things.
a story of her death, with those things highlighted and none of us who disagreed with her offering criticism in response means that we will be helping enable an erroneous and dangerous image of her as a positive force in politics and the world --which she may have intended to be, but in mine and others opinion was quite the opposite.
LeighAnn
(2,446 posts)It's important to speak out when people who do evil pass away, and not gloss over their malfeasance in the name of respect. People like the Bushes and James Baker, etc., and those who would become like them, need to know that history will remember them badly and that their misdeeds will be brought to light for all of posterity to remember once they've gone to their "rewards".
It's very important for future leaders to take this into consideration in all their dealings. Prominent evildoers of earlier times got away with too much because the media coverage of their deaths was often far too respectful than the record warranted. In the Internet age, though, such niceties no longer have to be, nor will they be, tolerated without challenge.
Response to Bosonic (Original post)
Post removed
bigworld
(1,807 posts)You gotta give her credit for that.
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)Check out their final words for her
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/
Beacool
(30,243 posts)"She created today's housing crisis, she produced the banking crisis, she created the benefits crisis. It was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefits rather than register them as unemployed because the Britain she inherited was broadly at full employment.
"She decided when she wrote off our manufacturing industry that she could live with two or three million unemployed and the legacy of that, the benefits bill that we are still struggling with today.
"In actual fact, every real problem we face today is the legacy of the fact she was fundamentally wrong."
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)They really disliked her. I learned lots from the comments, even though they are heavily censored and disappear quickly
pangaia
(24,324 posts)How can anyone as right wing as her actually be intelligent. She was a fascist from the get go.
As was mentioned in another thread, or was it this one, they should privatize her funeral.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)She was many things. Some negative. But the word fascist is inappropriate. She was democratically elected several times. When her own party got tired to her she stepped down willingly.
And you said to a little deeper on the Falklands war.
There was an election there a few weeks ago. Nearly 100% of the residents voted to remain part of Britain .
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)The ones who are smart, good at bullshitting, and charismatic enough to get the LIV's drooling are the ones that fuck us the worst.
LeftishBrit
(41,175 posts)They can be used for evil as well as good, and in her case mostly were.
Ian David
(69,059 posts)amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)taking the news. So checking out the front page of HuffPo UK tells how they feel and it ain't warm and fuzzy.
They truly loathed the woman
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)She was not a good woman.
But Rest in Peace and sympathy to those who loved her.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,083 posts)though I wouldn't say HuffPost UK looks particularly anti-Thatcher at the moment; and the earliest comments are more likely to be anti- than pro-, because the pro-Thatcher people are sad, not energised.
The obvious comparison is with Reagan; loads of Tories still regard her as the 'true' Conservative leader, and all they want from one now is to behave exactly like her. Perhaps the neutrals aren't as favourable to her as many seem to have been to Reagan. But, against that, pretty much everyone acknowledges her ability (studied science at Oxford when it was rare for women to, especially from a modest background; made her way in an undoubtedly sexist party).
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)doesn't let all comments through. So the numbers have to be adjusted
I know their censorship was insane when Breitbart died.
The people did not like her.Many are saying she ruined their lives
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)The censors are working overtime. It's worse than here and that's saying a lot
RedstDem
(1,239 posts)She did break new ground.
Her and ray gun seemed as they were the same person back then, didnt they.
Wish her time in power could be looked back to fondly, but it's not the case
Botany
(70,219 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Peace and condolences to her family, anyway . . .
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Even the members of Crass got pissed that designers forged their logo on their shirts (worn by one David Beckham) and they saw not pound note one from it.
My focus is on Reagan's Girlfriend, thanks.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Just like Billy Bragg lives in an enormous mansion in the country.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)In the end, it was about the money.
Cheers!
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)new PIL album and tour he financed with the butter money were great
RevStPatrick
(2,208 posts)That's all I got...
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)"Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave / Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live / long enough to savour / That's when they finally put you in the ground / I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down."
I will be there with you in spirit, brother.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I saw a newspaper picture from the political
campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously
in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child's
face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
coming down on that child's lips
Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the Lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down
When England was the whore of the world
Margaret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
the black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
haunted by every tiny detail
'Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
all she thought of was betrayal
And now the cynical ones say that it all ends
the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just
squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and
dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between
justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful
discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up
for punishment
And then expect you to say "Thank you"
straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you
haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
filled up with dreams then poured down
the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being
blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame
Well I hope you live long now, I pray the Lord
your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms
and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life
could be so cheap
'Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the
dirt down
muriel_volestrangler
(101,083 posts)and I think he's enjoying the backlash:
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)I think I'll cue it up tonight.
lastlib
(22,895 posts)She's dead. Good.
Saint Ronnie's been saving her a seat in hell. People compare her to Reagan; I prefer to think of her as Dick Cheney in a dress and high heels.
I simply can't bring myself to mourn the death of someone who caused so much suffering to so many. Perhaps dead her remains can fertilize a tree or something and finally do something positive.
JanMichael
(24,841 posts)She was evil!
You are speaking ill of the dead!
So what? She was horrid....wars...bleah bleah bleah...people suffered under her!
What if her FAMILY is reading this?
You are speaking ill of the dead.
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)The Brits are desperately trying to dance on her grave, but the censors at HuffPo U.K are working overtime to stop the party
Their censors are actually worse than here. And that's saying something
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Sure there are more than a thousand sites across the U.K. and other nations where Mag's family can read about her . . . "legacy" . . . first hand.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,704 posts)n/t
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Or has he not yet emerged from his mansion?
bluedigger
(17,073 posts)Looks like any McMansion built in the last twenty years here in the States.
Response to Bosonic (Original post)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)n/t
Orrex
(63,057 posts)Never in my life have I ever heard her referred to as Baroness Thatcher. I mean, it's not as though I followed her career with any particular attention, and I didn't even see the Streep film, but you'd think I'd have picked up on the Baroness thing at least once in all that time.
Hmm.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It is really very good, the piece is far more than a simple bio pic. Loved the screenplay and direction as much as the performances. She got the title in 92.
Warpy
(110,746 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Paladin
(28,173 posts)Let me save you folks the trouble: Maggie Thatcher, Ronnie Reagan and Pope John Paul II were the Blessed Trinity who presided over the apex of human achievement in the entire history of the world, AND it's fortunate that they're all gone now, because liberal socialism is about to destroy all life on the planet.
I kid you not: that is the tenor of the posts over at Lucienne.com and FreiRepublik right now......
polly7
(20,582 posts)He didn't get as much international awareness, but he was voted Canada's most hated politician.
Donald J. Savoie
University of Pittsburgh Pre, Jan 15, 1994 - Political Science - 432 pages
Savoie considers the war of reform waged by the leaders of these major industrial countries. Reagan declared that he had come to Washington to drain the swamp of bureaucracy, and set up the Grace Commission to investigate the operation of the U.S. government. Thatcher and Mulroney were equally committed to reform and initiated wide-ranging changes. By the end of the 1990s, the changes were dramatic. Many governments operations had been privatized in all three countries, and new management techniques had been introduced. In Great Britain, one observer judged that the changes were historically as important as the collapse of Keynesian economics.
http://books.google.ca/books/about/Thatcher_Reagan_and_Mulroney.html?id=FHKmP7Mhn_gC&redir_esc=y
Paladin
(28,173 posts)I've done all the conservative site lurking I'm going to do, today.....
polly7
(20,582 posts)Paladin
(28,173 posts)Beacool
(30,243 posts)Lucienne, Thatcher too, come to think of it............
Yukari Yakumo
(3,013 posts)..if someone funds them. Maybe we can get a kickstarter going...
"For 3 million you could give everyone in Scotland a shovel, and we could dig a hole so deep we could hand her over to Satan personnally" -- Frankie Boyle
ButterflyBlood
(12,644 posts)I mean that literally, not as a figure of speech. I've been told saving a special bottle for when she went was a fairly common practice in some circles. Well to those enjoy, and condolences to her family.
Renew Deal
(81,774 posts)Warpy
(110,746 posts)Parties are being planned in Yorkshire and Wales, especially, where the scars left by her destruction of the main industry, coal, are still painfully felt.
She was willing to destroy a profitable industry just to get rid of some of the unions.
You'd better believe glasses are being lifted in honor of her death. Lack of class has nothing to do with it. Being working class does.
Renew Deal
(81,774 posts)Though I didn't know she was still alive. She must have stayed out of public life.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Hell just got a little bit worse.
bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I sometimes wonder if I'll ever get the chance / Just to sing to my children in a holiday jam / Our lives seem petty in your cold gray hands / Would you give a second thought, would you ever give a damn? / I doubt it / stand down Margaret
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)yay!
RL
alarimer
(16,245 posts)In a last-gasp of a dying empire, over some rocks in the South Atlantic nobody wants or needs.
Fortunately, Reagan and the Bushes have carried on with useless, pointless little wars ever since.
Beacool
(30,243 posts)Two peas in the same evil pod. Having said that, she was a human being and there are people grieving her loss. My condolences to her family.
Rest in peace.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)I imagine it's a little hot where they're reuniting
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)had a crush on ol' Pinochet. Must have been the uniform and all those gee gaws pinned to his chest.
Aquavit
(488 posts)[link] [/link]
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Good.
jzodda
(2,124 posts)Its a shame that in life you didn't see the damage you were doing by destroying a great nation. The trade unions were an integral part of the nation and you ruined something that helped the poor and middle class. Now they are at the mercy of the corporations, as we are now as well it seems.
Any of your accomplishments on the world stage should be measured against what you did domestically and if judged together and taken as a whole you were a miserable failure.