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Judi Lynn

(160,218 posts)
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 01:59 PM Feb 2013

Comedienne Sarah Silverman’s sister arrested at Western Wall in Jerusalem for wearing male prayer sh

Source: Independent

Comedienne Sarah Silverman’s sister arrested at Western Wall in Jerusalem for wearing male prayer shawl
Alistair Dawber
Monday 11 February 2013

The sister of comedian Sarah Silverman was arrested at Jerusalem’s Western Wall today for wearing a male prayer shawl during an attempt by women to pray at Judaism’s holiest site.

Rabbi Susan Silverman – a member of the liberal Reform movement - and her daughter Hallel, were detained by police for wearing a blue and white tallitot, a shawl reserved only for orthodox men. Rabbi Silverman belongs to ‘Women of the Wall’ – a group that visits the site each month wearing traditionally male religious garb. Yesterday as many as 300 people gathered at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City, to protest at the orthodox control of the site.

The issue of women praying at the Western Wall is fraught. Only a small section of the ancient site is reserved for women, with the rest given over to male worship. Before last month’s general election, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that he would consider ways of making the situation more equitable, despite a 2003 Supreme Court decision that upheld the divide.

~snip~

The police confirmed that the arrests of 10 women were connected to the wearing of “male style” tallitot. The monthly prayer sessions are usually highly charged, and often there are arrests.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/comedienne-sarah-silvermans-sister-arrested-at-western-wall-in-jerusalem-for-wearing-male-prayer-shawl-8490591.html

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Comedienne Sarah Silverman’s sister arrested at Western Wall in Jerusalem for wearing male prayer sh (Original Post) Judi Lynn Feb 2013 OP
I thought Israel was a democracy? I guess it is more of a demockracy. CBGLuthier Feb 2013 #1
Careful. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2013 #3
A friend of the family is a Reformed Rabbi that moved to Jerusalem from New York . Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #46
That's just awful nt DesertRat Feb 2013 #65
+1 sakabatou Feb 2013 #82
It's their parliamentary system that is causing the problem. R Merm Feb 2013 #18
That, and it is a religious state... SkyDaddy7 Feb 2013 #78
Only if the voters elect representatives who want equality Freddie Stubbs Feb 2013 #91
"YOU CAN"T PRAY AT MY SECTION OF THE WALL!!" louis-t Feb 2013 #2
god's rules, ya know Voice for Peace Feb 2013 #17
The Orthodox/Ultra-Orthodox rules are backward. sakabatou Feb 2013 #83
Well. what do you know? warrant46 Feb 2013 #4
Arrest them !!! for praying in OUR spot !!! tomm2thumbs Feb 2013 #5
Why must you women vex us men so? maxsolomon Feb 2013 #6
I'm guessing that God really doesn't give a shit. Brickbat Feb 2013 #7
I'm guessing there is no god to give a shit. nt msanthrope Feb 2013 #22
Exactly. Brickbat Feb 2013 #23
Thank you Scairp Feb 2013 #40
do you feel that way about every country with a state religion or just Israel? Mosby Feb 2013 #43
Oh, I most certainly do! GliderGuider Feb 2013 #35
I can't wait until alien life visits us.. snooper2 Feb 2013 #8
{{{chuckle}}} eom Purveyor Feb 2013 #13
What makes you think relayerbob Feb 2013 #27
Pretty long trip to make from anywhere.. snooper2 Feb 2013 #37
backwards religion RedstDem Feb 2013 #9
It sure does seem that way! n/t Wind Dancer Feb 2013 #36
Maybe some members of a religion but not necessrily all ..... meti57b Feb 2013 #74
There is progress, the Independent did not really report the story Mosby Feb 2013 #10
This is different from the Taliban, how? SCVDem Feb 2013 #11
Well, they didn't beat or shoot them. Xithras Feb 2013 #14
Good point. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #62
Unless your name is Rachel Corrie, then they just run you over with a bulldozer (nt) The Straight Story Feb 2013 #81
Seriously? leftynyc Feb 2013 #19
Someone's never seen Palestine... Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #49
what the hell? Mosby Feb 2013 #70
whats yours? Anyone who spouts "agenda" has an agenda Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #73
Forgetting is easy even if history repeats itself davidpdx Feb 2013 #76
You don't know what you are talking about Ash_F Feb 2013 #77
lol, you need to update your talking points Mosby Feb 2013 #87
I'm not going to waste my time on you Ash_F Feb 2013 #88
Perfectly sensible practice deserving of our respect. Iggo Feb 2013 #12
Wait, you have to orthodox to wear a blue and white tallis? surrealAmerican Feb 2013 #15
No - the tallot is reserved for men leftynyc Feb 2013 #21
It is a smaller section. R Merm Feb 2013 #26
Is that a recent picture? leftynyc Feb 2013 #31
I was there this past summer, and that is how it looked then. R Merm Feb 2013 #61
It is less than half, and I have a friend who was attacked at the Wall obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Feb 2013 #71
She should have paid a visit to the beard seller! klook Feb 2013 #16
This reminds me so much of seeing blacks only restrooms and whites only restrooms as a kid groundloop Feb 2013 #20
Yep relayerbob Feb 2013 #28
I remember segregation well. I grew up in the South in the '50s. RebelOne Feb 2013 #50
i remember seeing signs when i went through the south in the late 50`s madrchsod Feb 2013 #63
I'm surprised that this post hasn't been "censored." RoccoR5955 Feb 2013 #24
There's still time DesertRat Feb 2013 #66
I'm sure it's been "reported" davidpdx Feb 2013 #75
I guess the world would go all topsy turvy for them if women prayed at "their" spot. TwilightGardener Feb 2013 #25
Tell me that isn't a Theocracy libodem Feb 2013 #29
There is obama2terms Feb 2013 #42
I watched a Saturday's morning libodem Feb 2013 #48
No, it's not a familiar prayer and only the Orthodox use the traditional version Mosby Feb 2013 #53
Are there any women here today? Xipe Totec Feb 2013 #30
Guardian:Sarah Silverman's sister among 10 detained in Jerusalem Judi Lynn Feb 2013 #32
Blog by a Rabbi who was there R Merm Feb 2013 #67
Meanwhile: COMEDIAN cactusfractal Feb 2013 #33
+1000 Cal Carpenter Feb 2013 #84
Israel is not a 51st State. Cary Feb 2013 #34
It's not THAT hard to understand! Wind Dancer Feb 2013 #38
Yes, Orthodox Judaism is sexist. Cary Feb 2013 #39
"Outsiders" like women on this board noting sexism? Well, let me tell you something, Cary--- msanthrope Feb 2013 #44
That's nice Msanthrope Cary Feb 2013 #45
Israel doesn't sound like a very secular state to me if they have to make compromises, as you claim, msanthrope Feb 2013 #47
It IS a secular state. It was founded by marybourg Feb 2013 #52
Indeed. A friend of mine described to me her problems with trying to get married in Israel. msanthrope Feb 2013 #54
As I said, the moral authority has been ceded to those who claim it as their right. marybourg Feb 2013 #55
You're entitled to your opinion. Cary Feb 2013 #58
Violations of women's rights are a universal concern. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #56
Of course you wouldn't be pre-disposed towards this conclusion? Cary Feb 2013 #60
What part do you dispute? nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #69
My sarcasm was specific. Cary Feb 2013 #72
Oh please Cal Carpenter Feb 2013 #85
You don't know me and it's pretty clear to me you don't know much about Israel. Cary Feb 2013 #89
Oh orthodox Judaism obama2terms Feb 2013 #41
Thank you for sharing your insights libodem Feb 2013 #51
So they would probably beat all Reform and Conservative Jews? Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2013 #57
I could give you a worse story... Cary Feb 2013 #90
This is why I hate religion PasadenaTrudy Feb 2013 #59
Sad. I hate to see people arrested for victimless crimes. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #64
She was released after a few hours oberliner Feb 2013 #79
This is a once a month prayer group. R Merm Feb 2013 #80
Cross dressing is frowned on in that part of the world marshall Feb 2013 #86

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
1. I thought Israel was a democracy? I guess it is more of a demockracy.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:01 PM
Feb 2013

All MEN are made equal. Women, not so much...

Disgusting old world values.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,846 posts)
3. Careful.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:05 PM
Feb 2013

Israel is a secular, liberal, progressive paradise. To say different any different could get you in trouble.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
46. A friend of the family is a Reformed Rabbi that moved to Jerusalem from New York .
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:50 PM
Feb 2013

He had a small congregation that met close to one of the Orthodox enclaves, mostly ex-pats like himself.

He would routinely find human feces smeared on the door handles of his synogogue because they didn't recognize him as either a rabbi or even a 'real' Jew.

He left after three years.

R Merm

(405 posts)
18. It's their parliamentary system that is causing the problem.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:20 PM
Feb 2013

In order to form a government too much power is given to the ultra Orthodox parties.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
5. Arrest them !!! for praying in OUR spot !!!
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:08 PM
Feb 2013

Sounds like they are proving the adolescent nature of their religious views


(no insult intended towards adolescents...)



maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
6. Why must you women vex us men so?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:14 PM
Feb 2013

Do you not understand that we are special to God, who is, after all, also a man?

No Girls Allowed!

of a post-monotheist, obviously.

Scairp

(2,749 posts)
40. Thank you
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:39 PM
Feb 2013

For stating the blatantly obvious. This stupid wall isn't holy, it isn't sacred, it's just a bunch of really old bricks. And this is just another way to try and keep women second class citizens by calling this a "holy" sight and restricting woman, who ought to be smarter than the men and know this is all bullshit. It's the same principle as when you could often find public bars or clubs for men only earlier in the 20th century. Augusta only just admitted women to that club last year. Shameful. Remember when the Oak Room Bar was for men only? Well, neither do I but I heard about it. Israel thinks it can be both a country about one particular religion governed in a secular way and that just doesn't work.

Mosby

(16,168 posts)
43. do you feel that way about every country with a state religion or just Israel?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:58 PM
Feb 2013

Some secular countries with a state religion (not a complete list):

Israel
England
Ireland
India
Denmark
Iceland
Finland
Argentina
El Salvador
Cyprus
Costa Rica
Greece
Norway
Monico
Malta
Peru
Honduras


 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
35. Oh, I most certainly do!
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:20 PM
Feb 2013

This is an issue that is very dear to My heart!

Well, this and your sex life of course.
...I saw that...

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
8. I can't wait until alien life visits us..
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:18 PM
Feb 2013

After a bit we'll take them around getting a tour of the planet and they see the "wall" with humans standing there mumbling, kissing it, LOL..


Alien- "those your people? WTF are they doing " "Is that a magic wall or something?"

relayerbob

(6,510 posts)
27. What makes you think
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:53 PM
Feb 2013

they haven't already been here and decided we were too primitive to speak to. Figure if we survive oursleves, maybe they'll come by again in another 100 years or so.

meti57b

(3,584 posts)
74. Maybe some members of a religion but not necessrily all .....
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:57 PM
Feb 2013

At our synagogue, women routinely chant the torah (from the torah scroll) to the congregation while wearing talisim with the four fringes.

What you are describing as "sexism" is realistically the Orthodox.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
19. Seriously?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:29 PM
Feb 2013

This is the same thing as throwing acid in the face of girls who want to get educated? Same thing as women being forced to stay in their homes unless a male relative is with them? Forced into a marriage at age 14? Can you really say that with a straight fucking face and expect to be taken seriously?

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
49. Someone's never seen Palestine...
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:58 PM
Feb 2013

It's just another example of man's basic inhumanity to his fellow man. No one country, culture or religon has got a lock on it. Humanity is good at being foul to one another.

Visit sunny Palestine where even the food is rationed (1500 calories a day -if they are lucky! Yum!) for it's prisoners..I mean happy populace.

Mosby

(16,168 posts)
70. what the hell?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:19 PM
Feb 2013

Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza eat whatever they want.

Food exports from Gaza and the West Bank are at an all time high.

What's your agenda katashi?

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
77. You don't know what you are talking about
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:00 AM
Feb 2013

"Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza eat whatever they want."

^Get educated.

Part of being a progressive and a Democrat is combating right wing nuttery wherever it rears its head. Good on Rabbi Silverman.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
88. I'm not going to waste my time on you
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:40 PM
Feb 2013

But don't spout denialist right wing lies regarding human rights on a Democratic board and expect not to get called out on it every single time.

cheers

surrealAmerican

(11,340 posts)
15. Wait, you have to orthodox to wear a blue and white tallis?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 02:31 PM
Feb 2013

That can't be right. Reform Jews wear these too.

... or is that only at the Wall? ... and if so who made that rule, and when?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
21. No - the tallot is reserved for men
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:30 PM
Feb 2013

The Independent is doing their regular bang up job of screwing up a simple story. And it's not a small section that is reserved for women - it's 1/2 and 1/2. People should line their kitty litter with that paper.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
31. Is that a recent picture?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:08 PM
Feb 2013

I was there myself around 15 years ago and it looked NOTHING like that. Not only that, a bunch of us went over to the mens side and prayed over there. Nobody bothered us and, yes, I'm a woman.

R Merm

(405 posts)
61. I was there this past summer, and that is how it looked then.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:16 PM
Feb 2013

Over the years the orthodox have gone more to the right. There is no way today that you would have been able to go over to the mens side. This story is part of an ongoing push by the woman of the wall. They do this once a month and have had issues before. It was great to see the vets from the 67 war prevent their arrest while they were praying, hopefully this will force some changes.

obamanut2012

(25,911 posts)
68. It is less than half, and I have a friend who was attacked at the Wall
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 08:14 PM
Feb 2013

She was grabbed and shoved and called horrible names, as was her brother who was with her. Because she was female. Doing this to people PRAYING. To a woman so excited to finally visit Israel.

All religious Fundamentalists sicken me.

Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #68)

groundloop

(11,488 posts)
20. This reminds me so much of seeing blacks only restrooms and whites only restrooms as a kid
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:29 PM
Feb 2013

Raise your hand if you remember the days of segregated bathrooms...... I was only like 5 or 6 but I still remember that I didn't understand why white people and black people had to use different restrooms in a public place. Well, I'm a little bit older now and, like then, I don't understand why women and men can't pray in the same place.

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
50. I remember segregation well. I grew up in the South in the '50s.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:03 PM
Feb 2013

Separate restrooms and drinking fountains for blacks and whites, and blacks having to sit in the back of the bus.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
63. i remember seeing signs when i went through the south in the late 50`s
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:22 PM
Feb 2013

i was 11 when we went through the south down to new orleans. beautiful scenery marred by the signs of segregation and all black shacks just down the road from the all white towns. up here in the north whites let them live in the towns but only in certain areas. the one in my town was named "chocalot square"

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
75. I'm sure it's been "reported"
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:50 AM
Feb 2013

several times by those who disagree. The irony of the topic is kind of funny when you see people screaming and threatening people for posting things.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
25. I guess the world would go all topsy turvy for them if women prayed at "their" spot.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:39 PM
Feb 2013

Damn wimmens, always ruining everything with their wimmin-ness.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
29. Tell me that isn't a Theocracy
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 03:56 PM
Feb 2013

Isn't one of the familiar prayers, one that the men say, thanking God, for not making them a woman? Suppose that little benefit gives them the patriarchal leg up, so to speak.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
48. I watched a Saturday's morning
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:58 PM
Feb 2013

Worth of, Public Broadcasting Station, stories of both Palestinians and Ultra Orthodox, gay Jews.

I came away more informed. God I love PBS. And I have cultural respect for the history and traditions of Judaism.
I hope I make that clear, despite my personal rejection of many religious doctrines.

I didn't know that the tradition of having meat animals slain in a ritual of religious rights and blessings, were similar to both people. I

Mosby

(16,168 posts)
53. No, it's not a familiar prayer and only the Orthodox use the traditional version
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:33 PM
Feb 2013

The other 90% of worldwide Jewry have modified the Birchot Hashachar prayer to make it inclusive and egalitarian.



Judi Lynn

(160,218 posts)
32. Guardian:Sarah Silverman's sister among 10 detained in Jerusalem
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:16 PM
Feb 2013

Sarah Silverman's sister among 10 detained in Jerusalem

Women stopped at the Western Wall because they were wearing garb reserved for men only, according to reports

Associated Press
The Guardian, Monday 11 February 2013 14.41 EST

Israeli police detained 10 women, including the sister of the American comic Sarah Silverman, as they tried to pray at a Jerusalem holy site, the head of a liberal Jewish women's group said.

Anat Hoffman, who was among those detained, said the women were stopped because they were wearing religious garb that Orthodox Judaism reserves for men only. The incident occurred at the Western Wall, one of Judaism's holiest sites.

Silverman's sister Susan, a Jerusalem rabbi from the liberal Reform stream of Judaism, was detained along with her teenage daughter.

Sarah Silverman wrote on her Facebook page that she was "SO proud" of her sister and niece for their "civil disobedience". The original post included more explicit language typical of Silverman's humour.

More:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/sarah-silverman-sister-jerusalem-western-wall

cactusfractal

(491 posts)
33. Meanwhile: COMEDIAN
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:16 PM
Feb 2013

Ironic that a story on gender equality labels the sister of a protester for same with a gender-diminutive title. Comedienne is no better than stewardess and only a hair better than "lady doctor".

Well, at least they didn't call her a Jewess, too.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
34. Israel is not a 51st State.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:20 PM
Feb 2013

It is a different country with different traditions and different realities. In this instance it has to deal with a part of its population that is fundamentalist and quite militant.

I would side with Rabbi Silverman, being a Reform Jew myself. However I would suggest that those who are getting bent out of shape are really interjecting themselves into a debate that they don't fully understand or appreciate.

Wind Dancer

(3,618 posts)
38. It's not THAT hard to understand!
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:30 PM
Feb 2013

This is a perfect example of men treating women as inferiors. It's universal in the monolithic religions.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
39. Yes, Orthodox Judaism is sexist.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:34 PM
Feb 2013

Are you going sit here and tell me that you understand the relationship between Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews in Israel? If so, I have a hard time believing that to be true.

They need to work it out and they don't really need outsiders.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
44. "Outsiders" like women on this board noting sexism? Well, let me tell you something, Cary---
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:16 PM
Feb 2013

The Abramahic religions of this world can go and have all the internecine fighting they please, but when it comes to an issue of sexism, whether it be FGM, Sharia, or this current crop o'bullshit from my husband's people, they don't get to "work it out" without the spotlight on them.

And when religious leaders use the civil authorities to enforce their beliefs, you'd better believe I'm not going to let them "work it out." You know why? Because historically, when we women let the men "work it out" we are the ones who get the shaft.

I don't have to know the relationship between two sects to know that using the civil authorities to enforce your religious prerogatives to the detriment of women is wrong.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
45. That's nice Msanthrope
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:26 PM
Feb 2013

And feel free to lash out at me as much as you want. I'm a citizen of the U.S.A. and unless you're a citizen with rights to vote in Israel your righteous indignation directed at me will do you as good as directing it at anyone or anything else.

Whether you like it or not it is a matter for Israelis to work out and your declaration that you're free from obligation to understand the real meaning of the conflict is unconvincing. The Orthodox Jews in Israel murdered Yitzhak Rabin. They actually throw stones at people who violate their fundamentalist vision of the Sabbath. The issue here isn't just a matter of sexism. It is fundamentalism versus secularism and that debate is probably meaningless to you. To them, it's something different.

Israel is a secular state. I don't know this but I'm pretty sure that the rules at the Wailing Wall are some kind of compromise with the Orthodox Jews in Israel. You don't know that either but you're very ready to get yourself all riled up about it.

It's their country. Not yours.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
47. Israel doesn't sound like a very secular state to me if they have to make compromises, as you claim,
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:50 PM
Feb 2013

with the sect that murdered Yitzhak Rabin (according to you.)

marybourg

(12,540 posts)
52. It IS a secular state. It was founded by
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:28 PM
Feb 2013

eastern European socialists and modeled on the socialist ideals of cooperative farms (kibbutzim) and equality (women in the army). Of course reality does not always live up to the ideal. Trouble started when orthodox Jews, many actually from th U.S., started immigrating to Israel and demanding the perks that their supposed exalted status as "more holy than thou" demanded. Couple that with the parliamentary need to form alliances, as another poster has noted, and you get a system where much of the moral authority is ceded to those who claim it as their "birthright", a very fraught concept in Israel.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
54. Indeed. A friend of mine described to me her problems with trying to get married in Israel.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:45 PM
Feb 2013

She eventually went to Cyprus. What she described to me did not sound like a secular state.


Cary

(11,746 posts)
58. You're entitled to your opinion.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:04 PM
Feb 2013

It would be a much a better opinion, though, if it were based on some objective analysis.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
56. Violations of women's rights are a universal concern.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:50 PM
Feb 2013

Here, the state of Israel has decided to violate the human rights of women because it has delegated its authority on such matters to a backwards sect/cult.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
60. Of course you wouldn't be pre-disposed towards this conclusion?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:10 PM
Feb 2013

You have weighed all of the facts and circumstances and you're a fair, unbiased observer.

Right. How you doing on selling those bridges?

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
85. Oh please
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:46 PM
Feb 2013

Israel needs to deal with the HALF OF ITS POPULATION THAT IS NOT MALE.

Human rights are human rights. If a nation chooses to be a religious nation, and that religion (or some faction thereof) tramples on human rights based on gender, then it sure as fuck better expect criticism and ANYONE who believes in human rights and gender equality should look at this critically.

Your relativism (re: "tradition" etc) is anti-human rights. It is anti-gender-equality. Different realities? What? A reality where it is not okay to criticize state-sanctioned sexism? Where human rights have some other meaning?

If those fighting for human rights around the world backed down everytime someone asked them to be forgiving of those who are sexist/racist based on 'tradition' where would we be now?

Fuck that shit. Fuck apologizing for a state that is condoning sexism.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
89. You don't know me and it's pretty clear to me you don't know much about Israel.
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:49 AM
Feb 2013

I am not "anti-human rights" and you have a lot of nerve making that ad hominem.

obama2terms

(563 posts)
41. Oh orthodox Judaism
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 04:52 PM
Feb 2013

I am personally an atheist as well as my mom but the rest of my family are reform jews. They go to an orthodox synagogue because it's closer to our house and to be honest this doesn't surprise me. Orthodox Judaism is very repressive towards women, they have to cover their heads, wear long skirts, sit separate from men during services, not even touch a boy until marriage etc. It's shameful to me even if it's just a part of Judaism, it turned me off enough to make me just have no religion at all.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
51. Thank you for sharing your insights
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 06:04 PM
Feb 2013

My mission is to be well informed. And I'm so glad you are open to discussion. I like hearing personal, points of view. Thank you. I've been starved for understanding.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
57. So they would probably beat all Reform and Conservative Jews?
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 07:03 PM
Feb 2013

Not Cool Story Bro: I once attended a Classical Reform temple.

I didn't know there was such a thing as "Classical Reform".
No beanies, no prayer shawls, nearly all the service was in English. It was founded by German Jews in the 1800s with the idea that those items were mere trappings and not part of the spirituality.

The rabbi was cool. He wanted us (husbo & I) to convert. We wanted to convert, but the rich people on the board didn't want us b/c we were unemployed at the time. They also said "We've never had a COUPLE that wants to convert." Like they couldn't wrap their minds around that concept.

We offered to donate 40 hours of our time working in lieu of annual dues, and we have three college degrees EACH, but that wasn't good enough. We met at a Unitarian Church.

We didn't want to join a shul where the board didn't want us. I've been to snotty churches and synagogues before. So we're still Unitarians, and live far away from any UU churches.

I have people in my face constantly telling me how Gawd answers prayers, etc. etc., ya gotta have faith, studying the flaws in the Bible is bad(I did that at a liberal Christian college where 6 hours of religion were required to graduate) and how global warming is wrong because "God's takin' care of our world."

I've even been told I'm going to hell for "worshiping Buddha". I set the hick straight about "worshiping Buddha" b/c he had recto-cranial conjunction.





Cary

(11,746 posts)
90. I could give you a worse story...
Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:03 PM
Feb 2013

The pillar of the Reform synagogue that my family attended when I was a child turned out to be a corrupt judge. And too the place was incredibly cliquish.

It's unfortunate that these organizations have to cater to the money people. If that's the kind of synagogue you were contemplating, consider yourself lucky.

Was it Emerson who said that all organizations are corrupt because the organization itself takes on a fictional importance beyond the individuals? I find that to be generally true.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
79. She was released after a few hours
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:35 AM
Feb 2013

And numerous Israeli men and women stood in solidarity with her and her compatriots.

Hopefully this arrest will raise the profile of the Women of the Wall group. Kudos to them for their efforts.

R Merm

(405 posts)
80. This is a once a month prayer group.
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:51 AM
Feb 2013

Count on next months group to be much larger. This happened in 2012 also and the following month there was a lager group of Woman.

marshall

(6,661 posts)
86. Cross dressing is frowned on in that part of the world
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:53 PM
Feb 2013

Though I do recall that Michael Jackson was able to wear a burka in Bahrain and was not arrested.

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