Double trouble: House GOP eyes default, shutdown

[brooklynite]

Source: Politico

House Republicans are seriously entertaining dramatic steps, including default or shutting down the government, to force President Barack Obama to finally cut spending by the end of March.

The idea of allowing the country to default by refusing to increase the debt limit is getting more widespread and serious traction among House Republicans than people realize, though GOP leaders think shutting down the government is the much more likely outcome of the spending fights this winter.

“I think it is possible that we would shut down the government to make sure President Obama understands that we’re serious,” House Republican Conference Chairwoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington state told us. “We always talk about whether or not we’re going to kick the can down the road. I think the mood is that we’ve come to the end of the road.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/behind-the-curtain-house-gop-eyes-default-shutdown-86116.html?hp=t1

---

[CBHagman]

1. Boehner's number is 202-225-0600.

Flood it.

And here's how to contact McMorris Rodgers:

[url]http://mcmorris.house.gov/contact-cathy1/[/url]

It costs taxpayers extra money even to threaten a government shutdown. I'm not going to go quietly.

[CreekDog]

25. tell Boehner and companies you will be moving your funds out of

tell him that since the market always goes down when they do this, you will move money out of stocks over the next few weeks.

let the companies know that you will do this. copy him on it.

save time, do it on Twitter.

if you have a mutual fund, then the largest companies in it will take the biggest hit.

this debt ceiling is going to be worse than any other, according to experts, even our tax checks won't clear.

you have to act accordingly.

let Boehner know that you have to be prudent.

[Why Syzygy]

36. These are great ideas!

I'm going via twitter. New meme #dumpthemarket #debt ceiling

eta

Tell Congress #fixdebtceiling or you will #dumpthemarket since it will tank w/o action. Market is their personal fortune #bankruptcongress

[high density]

2. I can only imagine the headline if Democrats were behind this idea

"Democrats Plan to Kill Economy With Uncertainty Over Debt Limit"

And what is this "finally cut spending" bullshit? Obama has cut lots of spending already. http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/12/11/president-obamas-record-and-proposals-cutting-spending

[TomCADem]

10. Fox News Would Be Organzing 24/7 Pickets of Democratic Members of Congress...

...and Freedom Works would be funnelling corporate money to bus people to such rallies. But, since it is the Republicans, we have been conditioned to accept the insanity as acceptable.

[BVictor1]

19. And this is what we need to be doing to them NOW!

You're right. If democrats were even ignorant enough to contemplate holding this country financially hostage,we'd be vilified by the Reich. But seeing as it's them that's showing their ass, it's time to do exactly that.

Vilify and crucify them.

[ReRe]

22. Vilify and crucify...

....that's exactly right. And give them all the rope they need to hang themfuckingselves. Looks like it's going to be two more years of brick wall politics.

[Why Syzygy]

3. scam

It is just a way for pawns of the Banksters to impoverish us better. (pawns = public office holders)
This is what a respected researcher writes on the subject (via facebook/Public).

How The Debt Limit Is Misunderstood
And What The Debt Limit Really Means

Our debt is in the trillions. I'll assume we've all seen the variety of images depicting just one trillion dollars. The bills end to end reach the farthest planet in the galaxy, fill every olympic pool on earth twice and could stuff 990 billion, yes 990 billion I'm told by a very good source, of Michael Jordan beds, or close to it. I haven't got the exact figures at hand but the pictures indicate that it's enough money to solve all the worlds ills and have well over half, maybe even three quarters of it still left untouched sitting in Douche Bank or JP Moregain. Please excuse me but it's a lot of fucking money man!

We're told the current US debt is approaching it's limit and chaos or some form of uncontrollable financially halting grind will occur if we don't increase the debt limit.

I just want to make sure I have it right. I'm to believe that by Congress agreeing to raise the debt limit an undefined, never-discussed, elusive financial calamity of unknown type will be averted.

Let's go with that for the moment.

Our current debt limit, the total amount of money our country can spend as authorized by Congress is good through February and that not-so-magic number is 16.4 trillion dollars.

Here's the Debt Limit By Year & President (approximate but darned close):

Under Carter in 1980 the debt limit was approximately 1 trillion dollars
Under Reagan it reached 2 trillion dolars.
Under Bush 1 it reached 4.2 trillion dollars.
Under Clinton it reached 6 trillion dollars.
Under Bush 2 it reached 10 trillion dollars.
Under Obama it's now at between 14 and 16 trillion dollars.

So let me ask you a question. If having a debt that equaled 1 trillion dollars in 1980 dollars under Carter or a debt of 4.2 trillion dollars in 1990 dollars under Bush or a debt of 10 trillion dollars in 2008 dollars under George Bush II why didn't it seem to matter enough to lower the debt then and why are people concerned now?

Specifically, is there a significant difference between 16 trillion and, let's say 25 trillion as the US National Debt. In fact, let's take a risk and ask what the differences would be economically, socially and politically for us, you and me, and our country if the debt were 16 trillion or if it were 516 trillion dollars. Now there's a question you haven't seen yet.

And you won't see it.

Because the national debt is a carefully crafted nonexistent illusion.

Discussing the national debt honestly has never and will never happen.

Because whether it's 16 trillion, 516 trillion or 1,016 trillion, it's all the same.

To admit this publicly is political, media, magazine, television, video, blog, billboard and graffiti suicide. Even Bansky won't address the national debt because there is none.

When a countries currency is the global currency of choice the national debt is meaningless-it doesn't count. Our national debt could grow to 900 trillion dollars and as long as the majority of international trade is conducted in dollars, and it is, the national debt means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Anyone telling you differently is lying or doesn't understand how national and international financial institutions, the federal reserve, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) work. (see: John Perkins, "Diary Of An Economic Hitman" and read it twice like I did, more slowly the second time. You'll get. Perkins talks. Of course no one reads.

The reason the national debt increased dramatically, substantially and often doubled under each of the last 6 presidents is because they know, Congress knows, the Senate knows and the House knows that the national debt is a bogus hyped concoction to mislead, misinform and stupidize the population. And it works. The national debt keeps increasing because it can and it makes no difference socially, economically or politically how high it goes. They just want you to think it matters so they can cut all expenses except those related to the military. The "national debt" discussion is an economic hoax and an affront to financial intellect.

And it will be raised.

Repeatedly.

For years to come.

While they cut everything; social services, education, general state funding, medicare, medicaid, social security, crop subsidies, childrens services, elderly services, meals on wheels, police response and presence, bus and rail stops, library hours, senior centers, youth recreation centers, heck, a city in New Jersey now has to take ALL of their trash to the dump. Trash pick-up was eliminated. In several other cities the police no longer respond to theft, burglary and a long list of non-violent crimes.

The national debt is a hoax.

Deficit reduction is a hoax.

Austerity and cutting costs is real.

Examine this issue for several weeks as I have. Read what all the pundits have to say and then read the more obscure analyses of national debts and countries of the earth. Surprise, surprise, surprise ...

[mostlyconfused]

12. Does this assume that no interest needs to be paid on the debt?

"Because whether it's 16 trillion, 516 trillion or 1,016 trillion, it's all the same." That line seems a but suspect if we are paying interest on the debt.

[starroute]

13. At the moment, interest rates are so low it really *doesn't* matter

In an uncertain world, where the Europeans are killing themselves with austerity, US government bonds are one of the most secure investments there is. As a result, the interest rates are so low that once you factor in inflation, they're practically negative.

Taking on debt in times of high interest rates can be a problem. But right now, we should be borrowing hand over fist to upgrade our infrastructure and put our people back to work. And the fact that the GOP and the Very Serious People are lined up against this is a crime.

[mostlyconfused]

33. "interest rates are so low that once you factor in inflation, they're practically negative"

And do you see that as sustainable? Where I could find some logic in that statement is if the borrowing were a very short term thing. Suppose we had a balanced budget today, but our representatives in DC thought we needed some short term stimulus to get the economy going...to they take advantage of near zero rates, for some one-time borrowing, then return to a balanced budget the next year. Our government doesn't operate that way. They are borrowing $1 trillion every year, and interest rates are not going to remain this low. Keep adding $1 trillion to the debt ever year, watch interest rates come back up again, and then do the math on how much the debt means to the budget.

[Why Syzygy]

16. I'm going to let the author answer.

I've put the question to him. Will have to wait for his reply.

Meanwhile, even the MSM CNN tells a story as to why even the idiotic Rejpuglies cannot allow it to happen.
(This is from the August battle, but the current one shares the same concerns.) I don't believe there is ANYONE in an official capacity who would dare to tinker with Wall Street. That would be a direct threat to their own personal fortunes.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/18/cheat-sheet-hitting-the-debt-ceiling/

... But there is broad agreement that hitting the debt ceiling would raise interest rates and lead to immediate, dramatic cuts in government spending.
-Nearly all agree there is risk of harm to the financial markets. There is wide debate over how great the risk is and how much harm would be done, though many, including House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, say if the markets are jumpy it could lead to "catastrophe."

... Markets and Finances
-The federal interest rates would certainly increase.
-This would happen for at least two reasons: 1) Credit agencies would downgrade U.S. debt and 2) In August nearly $500 billion in U.S. bonds will mature. The Treasury would need to raise interest rates to resell that debt in the middle of a fiscal crisis.
-Those interest rate increases would ripple through the economy, affecting mortgages, car sales and the cost of any new loan.
-Some argue that even if Congress later raises the debt ceiling an interest rate hike would be lasting.
-It is not clear how much interest rates would increase or how fast.
-The interest rate rise and the lowered confidence in U.S. debt could cause financial markets to drop. This is a heavily debated point. Some conservatives, including Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minnesota, argue such talk is a scare tactic. But House Speaker John Boehner told Fox News he is concerned that markets could get "spooked" and spiral into a "catastrophe."
-The U.S. dollar would certainly lose value. ...

[reteachinwi]

14. Reserve currency

I've heard whispers of tinfoil hat theories that the real reason we wrecked Iraq is that Saddam Hussein planned to open an oil bourse and trade his oil exports in Euros. This would have been a huge challenge to the dollar as the reserve currency. Same story with Iran. China, Russia, Brazil, and India have been doing barter deals, as has Venezuela with its South American allies. China has proposed an exchange rate currency run through the U.N. to value it's exports rather than using dollars. If the dollar is not the world economy's reserve currency, how would that impact the national debt?

[Why Syzygy]

18. The same researcher posted this.

I'm waiting for his permission to post the link to his facebook page. He is very much a public person, and all his things are posted as "Public". So I expect him to agree. The following is an excerpt from his essay on "Martial Law" (It will never happen, he says. He debunks a lot of the trash conspiracies that float around.). Personally, I agree that much of our military actions are in order to bring rouge nations under control (John Perkins). But that is nothing new. As long as we are the most fearsome military on the planet, the dollar is safe.

Martial Law & Currency Collapse

The US dollar is now and will be for the foreseeable future the "global currency of choice" in spite of anything you may have heard otherwise. With over 200 countries on earth almost all are dependent on dollars. For example, if Jamaica wants to buy a tanker of asphalt to pave roads and they aren't able to make the asphalt because they lack the raw materials then they need to buy the raw materials or the finished product on the international market. Regardless of where their seller is located on earth, 99 times out of 100 that seller will accept only US dollars as payment for the shipment of asphalt.

This means Jamaica needs US dollars and of course tourism fills that need partially. Yet you'll notice, again for example, when I went to Jamaica and the official exchange rate was $1 US dollar for $11 Jamaican dollars there were well dressed people at the airport offering $20 Jamaican dollars for a single US dollar. Why? It's another method the Jamaican government uses to obtain sorely needed US dollars and they could care less if they over-pay. They just print more Jamaican dollars.

Saudi Arabia, Germany, Sweden, England and the UK and every country big, small, developed, undeveloped or bombed back to the stone age needs American dollars to survive. Every country on earth also uses American dollars to buy the goods they need and don't have because they don't have the raw materials to manufacture them while also using American dollars (to acquire more)in the sales of the commodities that they do have or manufacture in enough supply to sell globally.

While it's also true that Yen, Rubles, Marks, Lira and other currencies are used for global transactions the majority of these transactions take place in dollar exchanges. For most countries such as Jamaica, Haiti, Congo, Yemen, Pakistan, Argentina, Honduras, Cuba, Iran, Nicaragua, Ghana and almost 200 more, their currencies are simply not ever accepted on the international market. Never. They MUST purchase their needs internationally preferably with dollars but often lira, marks and other of the 6-8 legally accepted major currencies of the world.

[reteachinwi]

20. Thanks for the reply

It seems to imply that the value of the dollar and benefits we derive from being the reserve bank for the world rests solely on our willing barbarism in foreign affairs (John Perkins again?). Sobering. I will speculate an answer to my question; If the dollar loses its status as the reserve currency we will experience significant inflation and our ability to service the national debt will be extremely burdensome. One can only hope that the other actors in the world economy don't see an advantage in that.

[Why Syzygy]

21. Since the

holder of our debt (Federal Reserve) also prints the dollar, they will do whatever it takes to maintain that control.

And, yes our status as world currency is based on barbarism. Max Keiser has said that Americans are completely ignorant of the fact that we have favored nation status due to that arrangement. It was granted after WWII. To the victor goes the spoils.

[reteachinwi]

23. I love Max

except he's a gold bug. I think he's wrong about that. Why not use wheat or rice instead? Now we use oil, and will until it runs out.

[Why Syzygy]

26. He has some great

information and insider knowledge. The only thing about 'gold bugs' is they are usually decent folk. So if we ever crash to the point of gold being the only remaining value (I don't think it will), at least some good guys will be holding.

[marble falls]

31. If we crash to the point that only gold matters, then gold won't matter either. Food will matter ...

much, much more. Gold only matters if there is more than one currency.

[riderinthestorm]

4. Why not? The Rethugs gained seats last time this happened.

Rethugs are now seeking short term blockages of Obama because they know the long game is gone (white southern old guys are in a minority now) so they are seeking short term solutions to block progress.

Unfortunately some of these positions still pose massive long term problems.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. I think they'll do it

First off, Obama has always responded to threats and mostly given in.

Second, Republicans are dying and they need to do *something* to change the dynamic: death or glory, baby!

It's sick, but it's what happens when you continue to give in to hostage takers.

[caseymoz]

6. They'll get Obama to surrender if they have to kick our teeth in.

And who am I supposed to be blaming for this?

Campaign slogan for 2014: We wrecked the economy for you to stop Obama from wrecking the economy.

It makes about as much sense as dying to protect your gun when you bought the damn gun to protect you. The GOP is now a coalition of the crazy, the stupid and the greedy.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

7. Spend & Blame Republican Party

Always whining about the debt THEY ran up, blaming someone else for it, demanding that someone else fix it and that everyone else (except themselves and their rich corprat fiends) pay for it.

Jesus Christmas. What a bunch of toddlers. (no offense to cute kiddies everywhere - but we expect our alleged "leaders" to be a bit more grown up and a lot less narcissistic)

[SoapBox]

8. ...anything to destroy America and Americans.

WHY, as we always ask, do they hate America so much?

[creeksneakers2]

9. Two different things

Defaulting on the debt and shutting down the government. Since even during a shut down essential functions of government continue, we can survive a shut down if it doesn't last too long. Defaulting on the debt though could cause an economic disasater.

The Republicans are trying to confuse people into thinking that refusing to raise the debt ceiling would result in a government shut down, but not a default.

[StevePaulson]

11. I Have a Better Idea

Since America's wealthy have 8 to 10 trillion dollars in the tax havens, we could give them 1 year to repatriate the funds, tax them at 35%, and put 3 trillion into the budget. That way we won't have to kill any senior citizens from starvation, or watch any children die from lack of medical attention. The filthy rich will still have 5 trillion left, and they won't even miss the "taxes" they should be forced to pay. If they won't pay, lock them up in Pelican Bay for life.

Hey Mitch, you pile of human feces. We don't have a spending problem, we have a lack of will to tax hoarders and corporations problem.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/

21 to 31 trillion in the tax havens, and corporations are sitting on 5 trillion in cash.

Anyone smell a rat?

[Beartracks]

17. Something stinks.

===============

[Beartracks]

15. Stamping your feet in a tantrum to demonstrate you're serious...

... still doesn't make you right.

==========================

[Fearless]

24. Finally cut spending??

What the hell do you think's been going on all along... never mind the cluster fuck of wars that are winding down.

Idiots. All of them.

[cantbeserious]

27. More Childish Behavior Displayed By Children Acting As Men

eom

[Selatius]

28. The US economy would suffer terrible inflation if the Dollar went into default.

The fact that the Republicans are seriously entertaining such an outcome should show people how extremist and ultra-right the Republican Party has become.

Things have been bad in this economy, but I think 8.00/gallon of gas would do the economy in. Anything made overseas and brought here to be sold would see massive price increases.

[lib2DaBone]

29. They won't shut down the economy...CONgress just voted themselves a pay raise....

They claim they have taken it off the table for now.. but you can be sure the pay raise will show up tacked on to some appropriations bill that is passed at 11 p.m. on a Friday night....

[Berlum]

30. The Republicans voted themselves a freaking PAY RAISE

..and now they want to punish the American people? WTF...that totally sucks

[bemildred]

32. Yawn. nt

[BadgerKid]

34. American held hostage, again. n/t

[bemildred]

35. "Nobody move, or the bunny gets it!"

[rocktivity]

37. Great idea

Especially since it worked so well the last time they tried it.


rocktivity

[lovuian]

38. I can Not wait for the GOP House reps to tell

Civil Servants Pensioners Military pensioners Social Security Pensioners

and I hope they realize the US government isn't going to pay for their Health Insurance

and Medicare and Medicaid

No Corn Subsidy checks rural America

Not including destroying America trust worthiness around the world

as far as I am concerned they should be locked up for Treason

I think the Patriot Act allows that doesn't it

course then Federal Prisons won't be there since we won't be paying for the Prisons or the Judges or the Military

Bring it on .....and I want to see the banks go down with that vote too