Gunman who ambushed firefighters killed grandmother in 1980, police say

[dynasaw]

Source: NBC News

"The gunman who ambushed four volunteer firefighters, killing two, in upstate New York had spent 17 years in prison for beating his grandmother to death in 1980, police said.

Follow @NBCNewsUS
Williams Spengler opened fire on the volunteers as they responded to a blaze just before 6 a.m. ET in a small cluster of homes along Lake Ontario in Webster, N.Y., police said, rocking this close-knit community.
The 62-year-old convicted felon had apparently set a trap, firing on the first responders from atop an earthen berm. . .

He was convicted of manslaughter in 1981 after the death of his grandmother, Rose Spengler, and was paroled in 1998.
Spengler's 67-year-old sister Cheryl Spengler is unaccounted for, Pickering said. Spengler lived in the house with his sister and mother, Arline, who died in October.
Prior to Monday's shooting, Webster police had not had any run-ins with Spengler since he was paroled, they said.
Police would not say what kinds of guns Spengler used, but as a convicted felon, he could not legally own firearms."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/24/16125861-gunman-who-ambushed-firefighters-killed-grandmother-in-1980-police-say?lite


Read more: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/24/16125861-gunman-who-ambushed-firefighters-killed-grandmother-in-1980-police-say?lite

---

Note "as a convicted felon, he could not legally own firearms." but he did nevertheless.

[riverbendviewgal]

1. UK has more details and pictures

but his missing sister is not reported.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2252856/Christmas-Eve-gun-horror-Two-firemen-shot-dead-assault-rifle-gunman-set-blaze-lure-deadly-trap.html

[marshall]

8. British sources always have more info

Sad that there seeme to be some kind of muzzle on our news.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. Mainly because they make up half of it

They've thrown all sorts of crap against the wall in the Newtown case.

[arely staircase]

68. that is unfair

sometimes they hack into people's cel phones and listen to their messages.

[realgreen]

2. Another win for the NRA

They've had such a huge month, and it isn't even over yet.

[SoapBox]

5. Yes! It certainly is a "banner" month for the NRA!

Just wait...they will come out with "guns a blaze'n" in support of this freak.

"...More guns! More armed folks!! If those fire fighters would have been armed, none of this would have happened!!!..."

Shut this fucking so-called organization DOWN!!!!!!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

34. Why do want to deny this man his constitutional rights?

[Tunkamerica]

50. There is no bad publicity

...said a wise man once.

[_Liann_]

3. Make the last registered owner fully 100% responsible for crimes with their guns.

You buy a gun, you pass a background check. You and the gun are linked at that point. Until you sell that gun to somebody else, and they get background checked and linked to that gun, you are responsible for all crimes done with your gun.

If it gets stolen, you need to prove you took fully adequate steps to keep it locked up and unstealable, or you are guilty of every crime as much as the thief. Reckless Disregard for human life and safety is one of the symptoms of ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER.

Murder is so anti-social, don't you think?

[mostlyalurker]

15. Exactly this. Totally agree.

The right to have guns should come with exactly this responsibility. I have been saying this for years.

[SoCal Socialist]

25. Liability insurance would make for more responsible gun owners as well.

Passing a background check to own a firearm should be followed by showing proof of liability insurance linked to that gun. About a million dollars per firearm minimum would be a good start.

[Thinkingabout]

32. This should be required and also yearly license with mental evaluation.

[alp227]

45. Good point, and welcome to DU!

[tradecenter]

4. Why was this convicted killer even out of prison?

[marshall]

6. I guess they thought he was reformed

Freaks like that don't often reform. Better to lock them up and throw away the key.

[DollarBillHines]

7. No shit. I'd love to hear from members of his parole board.

They let him off on manslaughter after he beat his 92 year-old grandmother to death with a hammer.

Manslaughter is what you get when you punch someone in a bar fight and they fall and hit their head and die, not when you kill your grandmother with a fucking hammer.

[SummerSnow]

9. Thank you..spot on

[alp227]

46. And it looks like the governor in 1998 could have intervened

"All decisions of Board panels and Administrative Hearing Officers may be appealed. These appeals are made directly to the Parole Board. Also, the Board, at the Governor's request, interviews clemency applicants and makes recommendations to the Governor. The Board delegates its statutory authority to investigate requests to the Division's Executive Clemency Unit." (NY Board of Parole)

In 1998, the Gov. of NY was...REPUBLICAN George Pataki! He gets to spend Christmas with family before answering questions about the parole decision. The dead firefighters don't. I wonder what kind of details we'll learn about the NY justice system's decisions.

Is this another Mike Huckabee/Maurice Clemmons moment?

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. Manslaughter carries a 5-15 year sentence

He would have been long out by now regardless

[caseymoz]

47. A plea bargain.

This would suggest that the prosecution didn't think they could get Murder 1st or 2nd to stick.

[JohnnyRingo]

10. He should have been paroled to a mental institute.

If the doctors there eventually declared him fit for society, then he could be released to the public.

Unfortunately, most of the nation's mental institutions were closed during the Reagan administration. The rationale they used at the time was "that's why we have prisons". That meant people with severe mental issues have to commit a crime before they can be warehoused, and there is no mandatory follow up for psychiatric help. The result is punishing a psychopath who thinks he did nothing wrong.

It seems many if not all of these mass shooters have a history of prior mental illness that goes untreated until it's too late, and even then they simply go to prison where psych help is rare or nonexistent. Our social priorities need re-evaluated.

[Festivito]

16. Collateral damage from belief in Republicans.

People got a couple hundred or thousand dollars in taxes back, then lost a hundred times that in their retirement portfolio. AND THEY STILL DON'T GET IT.

[oldbanjo]

27. Very true.

[justice1]

43. I read the other day, that there is only about 200 mental health hospitals left in the country.

I think that averages out to being about 1 for every 1.5 million people.

[JohnnyRingo]

52. I think there's less.

Our main hospital here does indeed have a psych ward, but that doesn't count as an institute. Like all hospital visits, it depends on your insurance and how many empty beds they have.

Hospital stays are decidedly short compared to mental institutions where innocent but potentially dangerous patients can have an extended treatment before release to the streets.

We had one here called "Woodside" until the '80s where the worst threats were kept away from deadly ordinance and sharp objects. There never was a mass shooting there.

The money is in drug and alcohol treatment now where they have a steady flow of private insurance paid visits. Patient in, money out. Nobody wants to pay out of pocket for psychiatric treatment, and the government refuses to.

[PD Turk]

33. because

... they need the cell space to keep pot smokers locked up :bamghead:

[toddwv]

58. Probably had to make some room for all those non-violent pot offenders

who are clogging up the justice system.

[cantbeserious]

11. With More Death - The NRA And Gun Apologists Win Again - When Will We Demand This Madness Ends

eom

[Botany]

12. Now where would a convicted felon buy an assault rifle?

How about @ one of these "gun shows" where for $60 to 70 you can
get in and buy, trade, and sell all kinds of guns. CORRECTION the $70.00
is to rent a table so you can be a "gun dealer" admission is about $10.00

http://www.gunshows-usa.com/new_york_gun_shows.shtml

If you have the stomach click on your state.



poke around at that site and the links ..... crazy shit about the 2nd amendment,
Obama, FEMA coffins, and gun show safety .... you can not put a live round into a
gun at a gun show.



If you want to own an AR 15 w/a death head skull on it I don't want you owning one.

[Igel]

19. The crescent. n/t

[-..__...]

29. "The Punisher" skull, I like.

The desert tan and black combo, not so much.

[DonCoquixote]

31. worse

you do realize that skull is the symbol of a comic book superhero, the punisher.

[Kolesar]

53. Yeah, I read a lot of those

[caseymoz]

49. Maybe a relative owned it.

That's what happened in Newtown.

[Kolesar]

54. At the *drug racketeer* bazarre!

Racketeers have 2nd Amendment rights too. Or are you against civil rights?

[Pachamama]

60. Oh Goodie! Kids under 12 get in FREE W/ an adult!!!!!

Just the place to take the kids.....

IMHO: Anyone who would take a child to this type of show shouldnt be allowed to purchase a gun...

[Botany]

63. also there is a link to some FEMA camp economic collapse horse shit too

...... the world is gonna end go buy guns now.

[Cobalt Violet]

13. So now we need to arm the firefighters too?

[intaglio]

17. No, Mr Le Peu thinks that every fire should have its own security guard

and that every security guard should have his or her own security guard when at home

[secondvariety]

14. Not again...

[valerief]

18. As long as there are a shitload of arms out there, any lunatic with a couple dollars can

get one.

[Mojorabbit]

21. Yes

and laws don't matter to criminals. Someone who would beat someone to death with a hammer should never have been let out into society.

[oldbanjo]

28. As long as there are drug users, guns will be easy to get.

[Bradical79]

57. What?

Not seeing the direct connection there.

[ywcachieve]

20. He beat his grandmother to death, and was only charged with manslaughter.

That sounds like murder to me. Beating someone to death takes time, and deliberation.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

24. Bingo!

[LisaL]

38. Especially considering he used a hammer to beat his grandmother to death.

[heaven05]

22. Note!!!!

Last edited Tue Dec 25, 2012, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

ding. ding. ding!!!!"as a convicted felon, he could not legally own firearms." but he did nevertheless. Yeah right!. Part of the unknown illegally owned weapons that felons possess. 300millioons weapons and then there are these people and their weapons out there. Killed his grandmother, went to prison, got out and still had guns.

[FrodosPet]

70. House to house search and seizure is our only hope

That is the ONLY way to get guns out of the hands of private citizens.

It's messy and ugly, and the Constitution will have to be modified or suspended, but is there really another solution?

Some people may resist, and undoubtedly quite a few innocents will die or be hurt in the process, but at least, in 10 to 20 years, the murder rate will be a fraction of what it is now.

Break out the battering rams and armored entry vehicles - the police have a job to do that doesn't involve arresting potheads.

[heaven05]

71. pretty drastic

be a hell on earth for 10 or 20 years. You're right it would be the only way to get rid of all the guns. Yet won't happen. Not enough police or army to subdue a gun population as crazy and large as ours.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

23. The system failed society. That man/monster should've never been let out of prison.

[quakerboy]

26. Riddle me this

Your brother murders your grandmother, then goes to prison for many years.

Do you A) avoid this person at all costs or b)move in together?

[left coaster]

30. I don't have an answer for you... HOWEVER..

I surely hope that you are not trying to blame any of the victims in all of this.

[quakerboy]

40. Not at all

I just would never ever feel safe living in a house with someone I knew had murdered in either cold blood or great passion(it was a hammer, it certainly wasn't accidental). Murdered another family member, no less.

[LisaL]

37. Both brother and sister were living with the mother. Mother recently died.

I am sure mother let him back into the house after he was released from prison.

[quakerboy]

41. Alter the question slightly

Your son has murdered your mother with a hammer. Do you A) make a point to never ever be alone with this person and a hammer or B) have him live in your home?

[LisaL]

42. She was his mother. Enough said.

[Superbot]

44. Did this mother ever abort a baby?

mother aside, use logic please.

[LisaL]

48. And what does that have to do with a price of tea in China?

[uppityperson]

62. He has been shown the door. eom

[LisaL]

65. Who has been shown the door?

He lived with his mother and sister. His mother died. His sister is still missing at this point, but I think it's unlikely she will be found alive.

[uppityperson]

66. Superbot has been ppr'd so won't be around to answer you. Sorry for not being clear.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=293687

[LisaL]

67. Thanks.

[Remmah2]

69. I would suspect it's a matter of economics.

How old were they all living in the house together? It probably all started out well then went to hell years later.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

36. How the fuck was this piece of shit walking free....

....or better yet, still breathing?

His 92 year old grandmother....tell me how this guy had any value to society.

[Superbot]

39. If you kill another person

1. you are locked up until you die

2. you are killed by the state

3. the judge who allowed you out of prison should personally vouch for you

Why should someone who kills another person be allowed out of prison? He took another life, a living life who could have lived for years. This happens too often folks. Stop it!

[Comrade Grumpy]

61. We don't have mandatory life sentences for all killers.

I imagine you might even be able to get probation on some manslaughter counts.

I'm not sure anybody "allowed" this guy out of prison. He did 17 years on a plea bargain of manslaughter; that may have been his whole sentence.

We are generally moving away from mandatory sentencing in this country. Overall, I think that's a good thing, present tragedy notwithstanding.

[exboyfil]

51. Report says he had a rifle with 30 round magazine

Expended one of them. Had others he did not use.

They know who the guns are registered to. I am sure that person is feeling pretty uncomfortable right now.

http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S2877314.shtml?cat=566

[eilen]

55. Our paper reports that according to an old neighbor,

he hated his sister and really loved him mother a lot. The neighbor seems the think that grief over his mother's death pushed him over the edge.

Personally, I think I would want to know what kind of people owned property surrounding mine before I bought it and moved in. It bothers me now that I don't know if some neighbors or their family members are criminally nihilistically insane with firearms and matches.

[raccoon]

56. Even if you do know that before you move in, what if some of your neighbors sells their home?

You'll still have the same problem.

But I see your point.

[tabasco]

59. People with pot growing in their closet

Last edited Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)

probably did more time in prison than this evil fucker.