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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 05:42 PM

BREAKING NEWS: French Senate Passes Bill Criminalizing Armenian Genocide Denial

PARIS, France (A.W.)—The French Senate passed the bill criminalizing the denial of the Armenian genocide today, despite threats and bullying from the Turkish state. The bill passed by 127 votes against 86.

The bill, drafted by member of French General Assembly Valerie Boyer, renders denial punishable with a year in jail and a fine of 45,000 euros ($58,000).

The bill now will be signed by French President Sarkozy to become law.

During the proceedings, members of the French Senate spoke powerfully and vocally in support of the bill. They noted that the bill is not directed against any specific country, and that it is merely an effort to honor the memory of genocide victims and struggle against hate speech.

http://www.armenianweekly.com/2012/01/23/breaking-news-french-senate-passes-bill-criminalizing-armenian-genocide-denial/

In associated news prior to this event :

Turkey threatens sanctions over French genocide bill.

Turkey has threatened “permanent sanctions” against France if the Senate approves a bill that would criminalise denying genocides that are officially recognised by the French state, including the 1915 mass killing of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey.
By Tony Todd (text)

Ankara will impose “permanent” sanctions against France if the Senate approves a bill to criminalise denying that the mass killing of Armenians in 1915 amounted to genocide, Turkey’s foreign minister told FRANCE 24 on Sunday.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120123-turkey-threatens-permananent-sanctions-ahead-genocide-bill-vote-senate

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Reply BREAKING NEWS: French Senate Passes Bill Criminalizing Armenian Genocide Denial (Original post)
dipsydoodle Jan 2012 OP
nanabugg Jan 2012 #1
Justice wanted Jan 2012 #2
dipsydoodle Jan 2012 #3
Justice wanted Jan 2012 #4
Ron Obvious Jan 2012 #10
Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #15
Malikshah Jan 2012 #5
msongs Jan 2012 #6
Louisiana1976 Jan 2012 #7
christx30 Jan 2012 #11
X_Digger Jan 2012 #13
LanternWaste Jan 2012 #14
christx30 Jan 2012 #17
NYC Liberal Jan 2012 #8
Ron Obvious Jan 2012 #9
JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #12
treestar Jan 2012 #16

Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 06:04 PM

1. Good! nt

 

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 06:20 PM

2. I always get uncomfortable with bills like this. Yes, I beliebe the Genocide happen BUT if

someone wants to be dumb enough or stupid enough to deny it than they are the dumb one. HOWEVER for a government to pass such a bill it reminds me of state thought control.

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Response to Justice wanted (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 06:32 PM

3. Many European countries have laws against such denial

In the case of Armenia it wiped out c. 60% of their population

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 06:38 PM

4. I know. It is ashame European countries do this. To deny that 60% of a population was wiped

out one must not be right in the head but to criminize stupidity...is just another sign of stupity in my book.

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Response to Justice wanted (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:02 AM

10. Turkey

For "European Countries", read Turkey.

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Response to Justice wanted (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:40 PM

15. agreed, I always found these laws odd. Ignorance is an exercise in free will n/t

s

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 07:00 PM

5. Good. So next is the law criminalizing denial of the ethnic cleansing of Tatars in mid- to late-

century, the same to the Turkic Muslims throughout the northern Black sea coast into the Caucasus...all by the Russians? This is pure politics on the French part, pure and simple.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 07:15 PM

6. stupid law. is it also illegal to deny french collaboration after france rolled over to germany? nt

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:18 PM

7. Good for France.

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Response to Louisiana1976 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:42 PM

11. Because someone saying something

is totally worth taking away someone's freedom for an entire year.
What we should do is make a list of facts and opinions that people are allowed to have, and jail anyone that believes differently than the people in power. That's the best way to further the cause of freedom.

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Response to christx30 (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 01:36 PM

13. This ^^^

François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) must be rolling in his grave.

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Response to christx30 (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:16 PM

14. As in all things, degrees matter.

As in all things, degrees matter. There are statements of intention in the US that are also illegal-- unless of course, one believes that all rights should have zero exceptions/regulations placed on them, we are forced to note that the context, the degree, or even the location may allow or disallow a thing to be said.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 26, 2012, 01:19 AM

17. I'm not saying that

all rights should have zero consequences or regulations placed on them. But this is a subject that is almost 100 years old. It was a horrible event. But people denying it happened should not be a criminal matter. Someone being an idiot and saying that it didn't happen shouldn't warrant them going to jail for a year. Everyone has an opinion on what happened, and people will disagree with the established facts. There should be an attempt to educate these people. Or, failing that, they should be ridiculed, exposed as idiots and never be able to get a job again, because they have shown a failure to use critical thinking. But they should NOT be thrown into jail for a year. To me, this is not a matter that calls for yet another law, another loss of freedom. What next? People that believe that the moon landing was staged? The people that question if it was an ice berg that sank the Titanic? Or the people that believe that "The Man in the Iron Mask" was about actual historical fact and is not historical fiction?
The reason that so many laws are being written which take away our rights is because we accept that they happen. We might balk when things like NDAA or SOPA are introduced, but for the most part, we greet news like this with "Good for France", instead of recognizing what is going on as yet another loss of freedom.
Sure, when actual human lives are on the line, I might see very lose limits placed. For the life of me, I can't think of any limits on the top of my head (I always err on the side of more freedom, and not less), but I'm sure there are a few.
But this is not one of those times. It was a horrible thing, but it was 95 years ago. Just about everyone on both sides that was actually involved in what happened is dead.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:44 PM

8. Shameful. nt

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:57 AM

9. A blow against free speech

I rate free speech as significantly more important than this. Once the state starts to criminalise expression of certain opinions, where will the end be? What other opinions will become illegal in future governments?

In a free society, I ought to be to free to publish a factually incorrect history book and not go to prison for it. Anybody who would argue otherwise is themselves a fascist.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 01:25 PM

12. France is France

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Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:41 PM

16. Dumb

And what is the point of these two countries arguing over things that happened in 1915?

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