Sat Mar 18, 2023, 08:32 AM

Siberia is up for grabs as Putin becomes China's vassal

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by JudyM (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: The Telegraph

Talks between Putin and Xi will be presented to their citizens as a meeting of great statesmen committed to building a revisionist order in the post-pax Americana world, operating beyond US influence.

But the reality is somewhat different. Xi Jinping has a clearly-articulated view of the strategic rise of China.

By 2049, Xi says, China will have become the dominant world power, once more enjoying the superior military, economic, political and cultural status that was usurped by Western imperialism in the 19th century.

Since Xi’s rise to power, all his actions, at home and overseas, have focused on achieving this objective. His vision does not include a relationship with Russia as a peer, and never will.

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/putin-only-choice-vassal-xi-060000493.html

So much for Putin's imperial ambitions. He will go down in Russia's history as the villain who is responsible for the country's final decline.

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20 replies	Author	Time	Post
Siberia is up for grabs as Putin becomes China's vassal (Original post)	Beastly Boy	Mar 18	OP
Years of a one-child policy will tank that idea...	SKKY	Mar 18	#1
What idea? China taking over Russia's natural resources?	Beastly Boy	Mar 18	#2
6 because people have 4 grandparents plus 2 parents	IronLionZion	Mar 18	#3
Ok, but when those adults age out of the workforce...	SKKY	Mar 18	#6
China's population is shrinking. The impact will be felt around the world	melm00se	Mar 18	#10
One of The Most Effective Means To Control Population Growth	modrepub	Mar 18	#15
Concur. And something which China clearly did not do...	SKKY	Mar 18	#16
Xi ought to arrest him and turn him over to the proper authorities.	Ligyron	Mar 18	#4
Xi Won't Allow The Military To Attack Russia...	PaulnFortWorth	Mar 18	#13
Back to the future, with a switch between lord and vassal.	paleotn	Mar 18	#5
Interesting speculation, now for some evidence!!?	Alexander Of Assyria	Mar 18	#7
Thats meaningless drivel but it also explains a LOT.	oldsoftie	Mar 18	#11
I believe that Russia's irreversible imperial decline is self evident.	Beastly Boy	Mar 18	#14
The LBN post shows this is from The Telegraph but it looks like Yahoo! News!	erronis	Mar 18	#8
Yahoo News is an aggregator aggregator. They show the source to be The Telegraph	Beastly Boy	Mar 18	#9
Its time for all nations subjugated by RU to take back their lands	oldsoftie	Mar 18	#12
It would make more sense to keep what you have	Marthe48	Mar 18	#17
Kicked and recommended.	Uncle Joe	Mar 18	#18
Good to hear from you, Uncle!	Beastly Boy	Mar 18	#19
The forum hosts voted to lock this	JudyM	Mar 18	#20

Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 08:55 AM

SKKY (11,076 posts)

1. Years of a one-child policy will tank that idea...

...you can't have 1 person working to support 4 (Parents and Grandparents).

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Response to SKKY (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:10 AM

Beastly Boy (5,879 posts)

2. What idea? China taking over Russia's natural resources?

This is what is becoming obvious to everyone but Putin. It is already happening. And Russia as China's colonial vassal, whether they like it or not, will support all four Chinese parents and grandparents.

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Response to SKKY (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:13 AM

IronLionZion (42,015 posts)

3. 6 because people have 4 grandparents plus 2 parents

The benefit is that each child has 6 adults to take care of them when young

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:35 AM

SKKY (11,076 posts)

6. Ok, but when those adults age out of the workforce...

...that one child is left to work and support those adults. Think of it from a productivity standpoint. China is trying to accelerate recovery, but decades of "programming" have seriously limited its ability. There are many smaller farming villages that are 75 - 80 percent male. It's not going to be pretty when the consequences of one-child are in full effect.

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Response to SKKY (Reply #1)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:00 AM

melm00se (4,786 posts)

10. China's population is shrinking. The impact will be felt around the world

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/china/china-population-drop-explainer-intl-hnk/index.html

Hong Kong
CNN
—
China may be one step closer to losing its place as the world’s most populous country to India after its population shrank for the first time since the 1960s.

The country’s population fell in 2022 to 1.411 billion, down some 850,000 people from the previous year, China’s National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) announced during a Tuesday briefing on annual data.

The last time China’s population decreased was in 1961, during a famine that killed tens of millions of people across the country.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:58 AM

modrepub (3,196 posts)

15. One of The Most Effective Means To Control Population Growth

is to allow women to make their own reproductive decisions, basically put them on par with men as far as societal status goes. You allow women to gain equal footing with men and they tend to delay marriage and have fewer children (emphasis on tend because some women will choose to get married and have children over any career, and that's fine).

China had a strong central government that at least theoretically gave women equal status. The one child policy was a reaction to an exploding population and the fear that China could not provide for everyone's needs, which the new communist party feared would remove them from power due to unrest. Forced abortions (and abandonment of female infants) to maintain this policy wasn't unheard of and if you are aware of this you can see the impacts of China's one child policy in plain sight in images from that time.

With the population stabilizing and projected to decline, China has lifted the one-child policy. But demographic changes (male/female ratio of people of childbearing age) and woman's more equal footing with men have stymied any population growth. It's a very interesting subject that most American's, especially in today's political climate, don't really understand or appreciate.

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Response to modrepub (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 11:12 AM

SKKY (11,076 posts)

16. Concur. And something which China clearly did not do...

...and hasn't done for decades now. And they're just starting to feel the effects of it.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:17 AM

Ligyron (7,029 posts)

4. Xi ought to arrest him and turn him over to the proper authorities.

Then he could go ahead and take over Siberia while Russian oligarchy is in disarray and the pathetic Russian military is bogged down getting its ass handed to it and has proven itself a joke.

You just know this opportunity has occurred to Xi and leadership but let me be clear, I don’t want this to happen except the Putin getting arrested part.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:38 AM

PaulnFortWorth (49 posts)

13. Xi Won't Allow The Military To Attack Russia...

because that would expose the corruption in the Chinese military. While not as bad as Russia, corruption and nepotism are common.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:22 AM

paleotn (15,769 posts)

5. Back to the future, with a switch between lord and vassal.

The difference being, this is a strategic move for China where they can get their petrol needs without involving the Strait of Malacca. A choke point easily cut off by the West and China doesn't yet have the navy to do anything about it. Solves some of China's geography problems. But I wonder how long it will be before Russia tires of the one sided arrangement and China decides to take Siberia for themselves?

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:48 AM

Alexander Of Assyria (4,631 posts)

7. Interesting speculation, now for some evidence!!?

And yes, India and China dominated the world by population and economy until the West
decided to enslave them all by military force to steal what the West couldn’t do on its own.

So inevitable same nations lead the world again…and then here will be Africa…it’s ok West, it’s just More People will lead, again. And won’t try to to Reverse Colonize.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:17 AM

oldsoftie (10,559 posts)

11. Thats meaningless drivel but it also explains a LOT.

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Response to Alexander Of Assyria (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:41 AM

Beastly Boy (5,879 posts)

14. I believe that Russia's irreversible imperial decline is self evident.

Russia, being cut of from the West, and being incapable of sustaining itself economically, has no choice but turn to China, increasingly on China's terms.

Here are some sources that address China's aspirations for taking advantage of the impending disintegration of Russia. It has been apparent for quite a while::

But now China’s presence in the Far East is being felt in an altogether different way. Beijing is behind billions of dollars of investment in the region, fueling both the stagnating economy but and tensions with the local population.
----
While some in Russia’s Far East do occasionally speak of an independent “United States of Siberia,” the idea lacks prominent supporters or any realistic prospect of success. However, the tensions behind it and the growing resistance to being directly governed from another continent will continue to define relations between Russia’s center and its extremities. For those in Russia’s Far East, Moscow might seem like a world away – with eight time zones and a five-day train journey dividing them. Now though, the distance between the two looks to be growing.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/the-distance-between-moscow-and-russias-far-east-is-growing/

Even though [China's Communist] Party delegates baked new anti-Taiwanese language into the Communist Party’s constitution, the real territorial temptation for China might be to the North, in the Russian Far East, where hundreds of thousands of ethnically Chinese Russian citizens, trapped in a substantially weakened and hollow dictatorship, could potentially be enticed to reconsider their options.

While there’s no way to know what Xi is thinking, China’s long-established pattern of behavior suggests that, as Russia redirects border security units to a grinding conflict in Ukraine, it is worth considering if China might be mulling expansionist contingencies to the north, along the sprawling and sparsely held 2,615 mile Russian frontier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2022/10/24/as-russia-gets-weaker-xi-jinping-may-forgo-taiwan-to-grab-eastern-russia/?sh=7216190b6ce4

Russian President Vladimir Putin has had enough of the nice talks and being large-hearted. Now Moscow is moving towards putting their interests at the centre stage and having the hard talks with the concerned parties which were delayed for a long time. For a while, Russia has been making nudges to remind the Chinese Communist Party to not attempt any adventure in the Far East, and now with the demand to 1 million illegal migrants to leave the country, the message is clearer than ever.

https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/04/17/putin-warns-all-illegal-chinese-immigrants-living-in-its-far-east-to-leave-or-get-punished/

On edit: China also has historical claims to large parts of Siberia which are more legitimate than Russia's claims to Ukraine.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:55 AM

erronis (12,340 posts)

8. The LBN post shows this is from The Telegraph but it looks like Yahoo! News!

Unless The Telegraph was being quoted by Yahoo News - I didn't see any evidence of that.

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Response to erronis (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 09:59 AM

Beastly Boy (5,879 posts)

9. Yahoo News is an aggregator aggregator. They show the source to be The Telegraph

right next to the headline of the article.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:20 AM

oldsoftie (10,559 posts)

12. Its time for all nations subjugated by RU to take back their lands

Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, etc.
Russia cant even overtake UKR; there's no way they could stop ALL the countries they're in from taking back their contested lands. Most of those troops have been sent to UKR!

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:09 PM

Marthe48 (12,271 posts)

17. It would make more sense to keep what you have

and improve it, rather than give it away and squander your resources on something you don't have.

putin is an idiot if he has put Siberia in as a chip to get china's support to invade and oppress Ukraine. Ukraine will prevail, and china will claim Siberia. How is that any kind of strategy?

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:15 PM

Uncle Joe (55,220 posts)

18. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread Beastly Boy

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:22 PM

Beastly Boy (5,879 posts)

19. Good to hear from you, Uncle!

Thank you.

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Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:26 PM

JudyM (26,189 posts)

20. The forum hosts voted to lock this

after receiving an alert that it is analysis, rather than breaking news. Okay to repost in General Discussion.

Note the SOP for LBN threads, found in the “About This Forum” tab:

Post the latest news from reputable mainstream news websites and blogs. Important news of national interest only. No analysis or opinion pieces. No duplicates. News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours. Use the published title of the story as the title of the discussion thread.

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