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catsudon

(863 posts)
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 04:45 AM Feb 2023

ABC News: Biden dismisses China's proposed peace plan

Source: ABC News

“If Putin is applauding it, so how could it be any good?” Biden said. “I’m not being facetious. I’m being deadly earnest.”

“I’ve seen nothing in the plan that would indicate that there is something that would be beneficial to anyone other than Russia if the Chinese plan were followed,” he said.

Biden also dismissed the idea that Beijing would negotiate peace for Russia’s full-scale war.

“The idea that China is going to be negotiating the outcome of a war that is a totally unjust war for Ukraine is just not rational,” Biden said.

Read more: https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/abc-news-biden-dismisses-chinas-proposed-peace-planABC



thank you mr. president, reaching a logical conclusion
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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ABC News: Biden dismisses China's proposed peace plan (Original Post) catsudon Feb 2023 OP
Link is broken, it says page not found, but I got you on this tornado34jh Feb 2023 #1
Well said mr. President🇺🇸 onetexan Feb 2023 #2
Alarm bells should be going off now. James48 Feb 2023 #3
Personally, I believe they are increasing supply without saying so. They are not lacking for money. keopeli Feb 2023 #4
Ramping is underway, and it's not just in the US. paleotn Feb 2023 #7
Someone knows the brain farts the CCP belches out that is nothing more than triangular chess. AZLD4Candidate Feb 2023 #5
+1 dalton99a Feb 2023 #8
It's the "If you accept this, we're encouraged to invading at least part of Taiwan" plan. paleotn Feb 2023 #6
Bidenspeak for "your plan sucks". Thank you Mr. President. twodogsbarking Feb 2023 #9
President Zelensky of the sovereign state of Ukraine decides. Alexander Of Assyria Feb 2023 #10
Profoundly Sad! McKim Feb 2023 #11
Right...Neville harumph Feb 2023 #12
So, we should just let Russia take over Ukraine BWdem4life Feb 2023 #14
Maybe they'll stop at France. eggplant Feb 2023 #18
As I recall before the invasion Macron returned from Russia with assurances rpannier Feb 2023 #25
Ooookkkkaaaay Mr. Chamberlain. nt MarineCombatEngineer Feb 2023 #21
McKim, I hate war. But if Putin is not stopped, the war will continue until he has reconstituted the Martin68 Feb 2023 #27
Glad that Mr. President Biden did not buy into this bull CountAllVotes Feb 2023 #13
China's plan looks good on paper, but has a couple of real world issues GregariousGroundhog Feb 2023 #15
Exactly my thoughts when I read it. XorXor Feb 2023 #19
In the end, Ukraine and its allies will have to drive Russia out of its country. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2023 #26
Ukraine welcomes elements of Chinese ceasefire proposal former9thward Feb 2023 #16
Good news. President of Ukraine not dismissing the plan...good news for all the world. Alexander Of Assyria Feb 2023 #20
Another dig at America? MarineCombatEngineer Feb 2023 #22
Bad cop?? GP6971 Feb 2023 #23
When Russia withdraws completely from the Ukraine is when peace talks should take place. cstanleytech Feb 2023 #17
Crank down sanctions even tighter until the RuZZian Federation breaks up. roamer65 Feb 2023 #24

tornado34jh

(1,132 posts)
1. Link is broken, it says page not found, but I got you on this
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 05:31 AM
Feb 2023
https://www.reuters.com/world/not-rational-china-negotiate-outcome-ukraine-war-biden-2023-02-25/




Look, Ukrainians and Zelenskyy are not going to accept anything other than Russia getting the hell out of Ukraine and its territories, the government of Russia being held accountable for war crimes, and a whole lot of reparations for that. China is a friend of Russia, and Ukraine knows full and well the de-escalation will not stop Putin at all.

James48

(4,494 posts)
3. Alarm bells should be going off now.
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 05:42 AM
Feb 2023

This war is going to become a war of attrition, and our current production of artillery shells is not increasing anywhere near fast enough.

At several plants making artillery shells, they aren’t even on a 24 hour a day schedule yet- they need more workers.

We are in big trouble if we don’t massively increase conventional arms production now.

keopeli

(3,550 posts)
4. Personally, I believe they are increasing supply without saying so. They are not lacking for money.
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 06:20 AM
Feb 2023

paleotn

(18,412 posts)
7. Ramping is underway, and it's not just in the US.
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 10:14 AM
Feb 2023

American companies are not the only ones making compatible ammunition for the towed 155's we and our allies are supplying. The US DoD is ramping for Ukraine and our own use. Letting our own stocks dwindle before the Russo-Ukrainian War has been rightly called into question. Hopefully, we've learned that lesson for the last time. But there's overseas capacity as well, particularly in NATO countries and South Korea....if there's political will and money. So far, there's plenty of both. Supplies may get tight in the short term, particularly for rocket assisted and other specialty rounds, but medium and long term look very good.

McKim

(2,412 posts)
11. Profoundly Sad!
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 11:40 AM
Feb 2023

I am left profoundly sad by this. We, on a global level, can’t just keep wasting our resources on war. This is cave man behavior or Mesopotamia 2000 BCE. We need to help our own people and the people in Turkey and Syria who have been displaced by the earthquakes. Sorry, on this one, this life long Democrat is disappointed. War is not just an exciting soccer game, it is a horrible wasteful tragedy in the 21st C. I am so scared that this will spiral quickly into a major international war that we can no longer stop. 19C. Thinking is not doing us all any good!

BWdem4life

(1,896 posts)
14. So, we should just let Russia take over Ukraine
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 01:46 PM
Feb 2023

and then whatever country is next on the list, and encourage China's aggression as well. I don't think so. We make a stand here now.

rpannier

(24,432 posts)
25. As I recall before the invasion Macron returned from Russia with assurances
Sun Feb 26, 2023, 02:12 AM
Feb 2023

Days later Russia invaded and Neville Macron was left looking stupid

Martin68

(23,627 posts)
27. McKim, I hate war. But if Putin is not stopped, the war will continue until he has reconstituted the
Sun Feb 26, 2023, 12:28 PM
Feb 2023

Russian empire. NATO and Ukraine did not choose this war. It was imposed on us by Putin. Appease Putin now and we will end up fighting even more difficult wars in the future for our very survival. Throw Ukraine to Russia like a bone to a dog? Not a good idea. Yes war is terrible, wasteful, etc, but this is a war of defense against an invading army. If you think Putin will abide by any international peace settlement, then how do you explain his annexation of Crimea? Ukraine became vulnerable to invasion because they gave up their nuclear weapons arsenal at our behest. We owe them help with their defense.

CountAllVotes

(20,906 posts)
13. Glad that Mr. President Biden did not buy into this bull
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 11:58 AM
Feb 2023

Its a steaming pile and he knows it.

Good on you Mister President!

& recommend.

GregariousGroundhog

(7,541 posts)
15. China's plan looks good on paper, but has a couple of real world issues
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 01:53 PM
Feb 2023

I'm only including the highlights for brevity, there is a paragraph explaining each one here:
https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zxxx_662805/202302/t20230224_11030713.html

1. Respecting the sovereignty of all countries.
2. Abandoning the Cold War mentality.
3. Ceasing hostilities.
4. Resuming peace talks.
5. Resolving the humanitarian crisis.
6. Protecting civilians and prisoners of war (POWs).
7. Keeping nuclear power plants safe.
8. Reducing strategic risks.
9. Facilitating grain exports.
10. Stopping unilateral sanctions.
11. Keeping industrial and supply chains stable.
12. Promoting post-conflict reconstruction.


There are five problems that I see:
1. I do not see Russia willingly accepting the pre-2014 borders of Ukraine. (point 1)
2. I do not see Ukraine agreeing to not join NATO. (point 2)
3. I suspect getting all 27 EU members to agree on rolling back the sanctions might be thorny. (point 10)
4. I suspect there will be disagreement on how much Russia should pay toward post-conflict reconstruction. (point 12)
5. Prosecution of war crimes that occurred in Bucha and elsewhere are not addressed.

XorXor

(655 posts)
19. Exactly my thoughts when I read it.
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 06:25 PM
Feb 2023

I'd say it all hinges on #1, which is something that Russia will not do. I mean, unless China and Russia view that as Russia's recent claims of annexation need to be respected. In which case, that's obviously a no go for the Ukrainians. If they mean that Russia leaves Ukraine and returns all the territory, then I find it highly unlikely Russia will go for that.

Which really means that 3, 4, 10, and 11 are non-starters too. A ceasefire without actual peace only works to Russia's advantage. They will use that opportunity to reorganize and replenish, at which point they will strike again. And I'm certain that they would insist that the west stop providing weapons to Ukraine during this "ceasefire".


This entire thing sounds like someone saying "we need world peace, end world hunger and poverty". I mean, yeah, that is an awesome goal, but it's not an actual plan that takes into account the realities that need to be addressed.

26. In the end, Ukraine and its allies will have to drive Russia out of its country.
Sun Feb 26, 2023, 11:21 AM
Feb 2023

I can't see any other resolution. Putin is like TFG -- except Putin has brains -- in that he is absolutely unwilling to admit defeat. Unfortunately two thirds of the population believes his propaganda: Ukraine attacked Russia, and Putin is defending their country.

former9thward

(32,617 posts)
16. Ukraine welcomes elements of Chinese ceasefire proposal
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 02:02 PM
Feb 2023

Zelensky on Friday welcomed some elements of a Chinese proposal for a ceasefire in Russia's war on Ukraine.

"I plan to meet Xi Jinping and believe this will be beneficial for our countries and for security in the world," he told a news conference in Kyiv on the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Ukraine welcomes elements of Chinese ceasefire proposal
Zelensky on Friday welcomed some elements of a Chinese proposal for a ceasefire in Russia's war on Ukraine but said only the country where a war is being fought should be the initiator of a peace plan.

"It's an important signal that they are preparing to take part in this theme," he said during a news conference in Kyiv, referring to China's bid to broker peace.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-732656?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email



 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
20. Good news. President of Ukraine not dismissing the plan...good news for all the world.
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 07:27 PM
Feb 2023

America can play bad cop during the negotiations.

cstanleytech

(26,537 posts)
17. When Russia withdraws completely from the Ukraine is when peace talks should take place.
Sat Feb 25, 2023, 03:00 PM
Feb 2023

Followed shortly afterwards by anyone be it a Russian or Ukrainian that committed any war crimes being charged and brought to trial.

roamer65

(36,825 posts)
24. Crank down sanctions even tighter until the RuZZian Federation breaks up.
Sun Feb 26, 2023, 01:09 AM
Feb 2023

For each new breakaway republic, lift the sanctions.

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