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Wed Oct 5, 2022, 10:30 PM

 

US believes elements within Ukraine's government authorized assassination near Moscow, sources say

Source: CNN

The US intelligence community believes that the car bombing that killed Darya Dugina, the daughter of prominent Russian political figure Alexander Dugin, was authorized by elements within the Ukrainian government, sources briefed on the intelligence told CNN.

The US was not aware of the plan beforehand, according to the sources, and it is still unclear who exactly the US believes signed off on the assassination. It is also not clear whether the US intelligence community believes that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was aware of the plot or authorized it.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/05/politics/us-intelligence-ukraine-dugina-assassination/index.html



Will every person killed by Russia in Ukraine get his/her own news article?

I think the moral of the story is “you shouldn’t have fucked with Ukraine”.

20 replies, 2428 views

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Reply US believes elements within Ukraine's government authorized assassination near Moscow, sources say (Original post)
fanfanois Oct 5 OP
rpannier Oct 5 #1
BootinUp Oct 5 #2
womanofthehills Oct 6 #14
dweller Oct 5 #3
StormKing Oct 5 #6
BeyondGeography Oct 5 #4
Justice matters. Oct 5 #9
AdamGG Oct 6 #11
womanofthehills Oct 6 #15
Gaugamela Oct 5 #5
StormKing Oct 5 #7
Gaugamela Oct 5 #8
Captain Zero Oct 6 #10
Duppers Oct 6 #12
fanfanois Oct 6 #13
BootinUp Oct 6 #16
Gaugamela Oct 6 #17
BootinUp Oct 6 #18
Gaugamela Oct 6 #19
Gaugamela Oct 6 #20

Response to fanfanois (Original post)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 10:34 PM

1. Shame they didn't succeed

Maybe next time

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Response to fanfanois (Original post)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 10:36 PM

2. Unnamed sources yes? Not sure

I swallow this.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 08:02 PM

14. NYT article - US wants Russia to know we are not behind this

WASHINGTON — United States intelligence agencies believe parts of the Ukrainian government authorized the car bomb attack near Moscow in August that killed Daria Dugina, the daughter of a prominent Russian nationalist, an element of a covert campaign that U.S. officials fear could widen the conflict.

The United States took no part in the attack, either by providing intelligence or other assistance, officials said. American officials also said they were not aware of the operation ahead of time and would have opposed the killing had they been consulted. Afterward, American officials admonished Ukrainian officials over the assassination, they said.

While Russia has not retaliated in a specific way for the assassination, the United States is concerned that such attacks — while high in symbolic value — have little direct impact on the battlefield and could provoke Moscow to carry out its own strikes against senior Ukrainian officials. American officials have been frustrated with Ukraine’s lack of transparency about its military and covert plans, especially on Russian soil.

Oct 5, NYT - link just refuses to paste for me

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Response to fanfanois (Original post)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 10:37 PM

3. What purpose

does this story serve ?
Bothsiderism ?
🤔




✌🏻

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Response to dweller (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 11:22 PM

6. Naaaah...

... this story broke a day after the story of Putin assembling an assassination list came up.

... I think this is our intelligence community's way of saying be careful what you wish for.

How did the IRA say it to Margaret Thatcher?

We have to only be lucky once you have to be lucky every time.

Or something like that.

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Response to fanfanois (Original post)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 10:43 PM

4. Whose dumb idea was it to leak this to the Times and why?

And who should give a shit about the death of a loudmouth who very publicly denied Ukraine’s right to exist?

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 11:44 PM

9. Maybe ... republiQan Russian agents?

There are more than a handful of 'em in the Fascist party...

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 12:47 AM

11. Mayber the CIA?

I have no idea, but maybe they want to stress to Vlad that we weren't knowingly behind it, so that it's clear to him that we'll view it as an escalation if he tries to retaliate here.

I'd hope that our intelligence assets are helping Ukraine in every way they can and will continue. Unfortunately, it's probably impossible to get to Putin himself.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 08:04 PM

15. Obviously our intelligence leaked it to let Russia know

They were not behind it or even know of the plan.

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Response to fanfanois (Original post)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 11:08 PM

5. Apparently this story challenges the chivalrous, romantic narrative of

the clean and just war of good over evil that prevails here. A romanticism that is the result of two decades of superhero movies, no doubt. (I hate superhero movies — obvious propaganda… but I digress.)

How is Ukraine trying to take out the ideological mastermind of the Ukraine war any different from US forces taking out Al Zawahari? (Obviously, Alexander Dugin was their target. Why go for the daughter when you could go for the villain himself?) It’s like pretending to be squeamish about what happened to Mussolini. “Oh my god! That’s so far beneath us!”

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Response to Gaugamela (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 11:23 PM

7. Nope

It's war kill or be killed I mean they're being threatened with nukes.

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Response to StormKing (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 5, 2022, 11:32 PM

8. Exactly.

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Response to Gaugamela (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 12:45 AM

10. Expel all non-citizen Russians from the US

Same with non-citizen Saudis.
The Saudi and Russians are colluding to raise gas prices before our election.

They should be glad we are only expelling them.

As far as Russians dying anywhere at Ukrainian hands. Tough shit. Get out of their country.

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Response to Captain Zero (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 06:08 AM

12. Indeed! 👍 -- Just a Reminder....

From Wiki:

Links between Trump associates and Russian officials

Since Donald Trump was a 2016 candidate for the office of President of the United States, numerous links between Trump associates and Russian officials and spies have been discovered by the FBI, Special counsel, and several United States congressional committees, as part of their investigations into the Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections.[1] Following intelligence reports about the Russian interference, Trump and some of his campaign members, business partners, administration nominees, and family members were subjected to intense scrutiny to determine whether they had improper dealings during their contacts with Russian officials.[2][3] Several people connected to the Trump campaign made false statements about those links and obstructed investigations.[1] These investigations resulted in many criminal charges and indictments.

Starting in 2015, several allied foreign intelligence agencies began reporting secret contacts between Trump campaigners and known or suspected Russian agents in multiple European cities.[4][5][6] In November 2016, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov contradicted Trump's denials by confirming the Trump campaign had been in contact with Russia, stating in a 2016 Interfax news agency interview: "Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage," adding "I cannot say that all of them but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives."[7][8]

The Senate Intelligence Committee Russia Report described how "secretive meetings and communications with Russian representatives... signaled that there was little intention by the incoming administration to punish Russia for the assistance it had just provided in its unprecedented attack on American democracy."[9]

Ultimately, Mueller's investigation "did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities".[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials



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Response to Gaugamela (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 10:14 AM

13. Colateral damages

 

And Russia is an expert in colaterally killing and raping innocents.

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Response to Gaugamela (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 08:08 PM

16. the Dugins importance is not universally described

in the way you just characterized him/her. And the exact target is not some established fact either.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 09:13 PM

17. Of course it's all speculation. Like everyone else here I can only make

sensible guesses, nor am I so naïve as to believe in a single objective truth. I’m describing what seems to me to be the odds. But regardless of how you estimate Dugin’s importance, how is it any different from US forces assassinating General Soleimani or Al Zawahiri? It’s cool when we do it, but not when Ukraine does it?

Nor am I rejoicing in any of this. My whole point is that the maudlin romanticizing of military action is a wishful yearning for a “good war”. There may be necessary wars, but there are no good wars. And when a population starts romanticizing war, horrors are likely to follow.

But if you think they were targeting a 29 year old journalist, do tell. I’d like to hear that theory.

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Response to Gaugamela (Reply #17)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 09:56 PM

18. These are some of the factors I do not see

being discussed.

I don't recall precisely what was said about the explosive device and triggering/controls but I think I read that the person triggering the device would have been in close proximity. And even if that is not the case, I think anyone that goes to the trouble of booby trapping a car with a remotely operated device, would plan to confirm who the occupants are before trigging it. So I think the target was Dugina, but yes speculation.

If the bombers are Ukrainians, then I believe they would be operating without official government sanction. Dugina said some very hateful/evil things about Ukrainians and the soldiers at Azvostal and I think it is not out of the realm of possibility that she was targeted out of some kind of revenge for some of the shit she published and would publish in the future.

But if the target was in fact Dugin, then I think you can cross the Ukrainians off the list. I gather he was seen as a fringe guy of low importance by the Ukrainians. But Dugina was an up and comer, getting more assignments on Russian state tv and articles in high profile Russian propaganda. She went to Marioupal and did live reporting and this at a time when the the Ukrainians were just trying to deal with their losses.

But I do not think patriotic Ukrainians or some Ukr special operations force is responsible. I think it is far more likely that Russians were behind it and it had to do with Russian politics. Additionally, I would not rule out some other European actors from the political fringes. The Dugins were quite the networkers and active in fascist circles.

Lastly I see both Soleimani and Zawahiri as far more powerful figures/more legitimate targets than Dugin. This view of Dugin is just based on what information I could find, and I did dig around a good bit too.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 10:05 PM

19. Ok, I tip my hat to you. That was an excellent reply, and I learned

something here. Thank you.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 6, 2022, 11:47 PM

20. But I still think the target was Dugin.

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