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Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:38 PM

DOJ can resume criminal probe of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago, appeals court says

Source: CNN

CNN — A federal appeals court is allowing the Justice Department to continue looking at documents marked as classified that were seized from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home and resort. The emergency intervention upends a trial judge’s order over those documents that blocked federal investigators’ work on the documents, and is a strong rebuke of the Trump team’s attempt to suggest without evidence that materials were somehow declassified.

A special master’s review of that subset of about 100 records, which would’ve allowed Trump’s legal team to see them, is now partially stopped. The special master, Judge Raymond Dearie, is able to continue his work reviewing the rest of the material seized from Mar-a-Lago, to make sure records belonging to Trump or that he may be able to claim are confidential aren’t used by investigators. “It is self-evident that the public has a strong interest in ensuring that the storage of the classified records did not result in ‘exceptionally grave damage to the national security,’” the three-judge panel from the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals stated.

“Ascertaining that necessarily involves reviewing the documents, determining who had access to them and when, and deciding which (if any) sources or methods are compromised.” Throughout the litigation, Trump’s lawyers have raised vague questions about whether the materials are in fact classified. But they have not straightforwardly asserted in court that the former President declassified them, even as Trump himself has claimed outside of court that he did.

Court rebukes Trump on declassified claims

Wednesday night, the appeals court panel called Trump’s legal team out. “Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President,” the court wrote. “But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. And before the special master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents.”


Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/appeals-court-mar-a-lago-criminal-classified-documents/index.html



Article being updated.

Previous update -

CNN -- A federal appeals court is allowing the Justice Department to continue looking at documents marked as classified that were seized from former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home and resort. The emergency intervention upends a trial judge's order over those documents that blocked federal investigators' work on the documents.

A special master's review of that subset of about 100 records, which would've allowed Trump's legal team to see them, is now partially stopped. The special master, Judge Raymond Dearie, is able to continue his work reviewing the rest of the material seized from Mar-a-Lago, to make sure records belonging to Trump or that he may be able to claim are confidential aren't used by investigators.

"It is self-evident that the public has a strong interest in ensuring that the storage of the classified records did not result in 'exceptionally grave damage to the national security,'" the three-judge panel from the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals stated. "Ascertaining that necessarily involves reviewing the documents, determining who had access to them and when, and deciding which (if any) sources or methods are compromised."

This story is breaking and will be updated.


Original article -

CNN -- A federal appeals court is allowing the Justice Department to continue looking at documents marked as classified that were seized from former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home and resort.

The emergency intervention upends a trial judge's order over those documents that blocked federal investigators' work on the documents.

This story is breaking and will be updated.

64 replies, 6421 views

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Reply DOJ can resume criminal probe of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago, appeals court says (Original post)
BumRushDaShow Wednesday OP
Scrivener7 Wednesday #1
COL Mustard Wednesday #18
Scrivener7 Wednesday #21
COL Mustard Wednesday #27
Brother Buzz Wednesday #2
LetMyPeopleVote Wednesday #3
Cha Wednesday #9
skylucy Wednesday #4
wcmagumba Wednesday #5
Lasher Wednesday #44
3Hotdogs Wednesday #6
Cha Wednesday #7
Fiendish Thingy Wednesday #8
3Hotdogs Wednesday #10
Traildogbob Wednesday #11
prodigitalson Thursday #48
central scrutinizer Wednesday #12
SheltieLover Wednesday #13
onetexan Wednesday #14
LetMyPeopleVote Wednesday #15
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #20
Lasher Thursday #63
RedSpartan Wednesday #16
Corgigal Wednesday #17
mcar Wednesday #19
Ms. Toad Wednesday #26
padah513 Wednesday #22
Scrivener7 Wednesday #23
Aghast Wednesday #24
calimary Wednesday #33
Ms. Toad Wednesday #25
calimary Wednesday #28
Tommymac Wednesday #29
Jarqui Wednesday #30
LetMyPeopleVote Wednesday #31
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #34
LetMyPeopleVote Wednesday #36
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #43
dalton99a Thursday #56
MerryBlooms Thursday #62
Voltaire2 Wednesday #32
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #35
getagrip_already Wednesday #37
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #38
Lasher Wednesday #41
BumRushDaShow Thursday #50
Lasher Thursday #55
BumRushDaShow Thursday #58
Drum Wednesday #39
wnylib Wednesday #40
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #45
wnylib Wednesday #46
BumRushDaShow Wednesday #47
Novara Thursday #53
BumRushDaShow Thursday #54
Lasher Wednesday #42
Roisin Ni Fiachra Thursday #49
mahatmakanejeeves Thursday #51
BumRushDaShow Thursday #52
Jarqui Thursday #57
BumRushDaShow Thursday #59
EndlessWire Thursday #60
MerryBlooms Thursday #61
Martin68 Thursday #64

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:40 PM

1. Wooooooohooooo!!!



This is very good!

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:04 PM

18. I would love to get the Freepers' take on it.

I bet they're having an absolute cow complaining about Judge Dearie. But I won't go over there and look.

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:06 PM

21. I think we can assume Barr is their mouthpiece on this.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:20 PM

27. I think he's positively sane compared to the rest of them

They've been unhinged since before the election, and I'm sure it's gotten worse and worse.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:40 PM

2. Totally a Red Letter Day, Baby!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:41 PM

3. TFG is having a bad week in court



https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/appeals-court-mar-a-lago-criminal-classified-documents/index.html

A federal appeals court is allowing the Justice Department to continue looking at documents marked as classified that were seized from former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home and resort.

The emergency intervention upends a trial judge's order over those documents that blocked federal investigators' work on the documents.
This story is breaking and will be updated.



Here is a link to the opinion
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-625b-da48-a3e3-e2ff83050000

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:49 PM

9. TY LMPV!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:44 PM

4. Kick! Kick! Kick!!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:44 PM

5. Can drumph petition for an En banc ruling?

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Response to wcmagumba (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:45 PM

44. It doesn't appear so.

This from Politico:

The 11th Circuit’s rules appear to preclude any attempt to ask the full bench of that court to reconsider the government’s motion, but Trump could seek emergency relief from the Supreme Court.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/21/donald-trump-special-master-00058176

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:45 PM

6. Ketchup! KEtchup!! KETchup!!! KETChup!!!! KETCHup!!!! KETCHUp!!!!! KETCHUP ---- FUKIN' KETCHUP!!!!

My penthouse for a 55 gallon drum of ketchup !

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:46 PM

7. WHAT!?!!! This is What We Wanted!

This Applies!


TY BRDS!

Cannon can eat ****// she's not a "judge".

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:46 PM

8. Cue Kool Aid Man:

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:49 PM

10. Now he's gotta find lawyers, willing to give up their law license in exchange for -----wait for it--

not getting paid.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:49 PM

11. Holy shit

This made my day. Jr gonna go through some coke tonight. Who gonna clean up the ketchup at Mardi Lardo tonight. Stroke you fat orange Jesus. Stroke until Melania has to wipe your ass until you die. Of course we know it will be Jr and Eric wiping the ass. After James is done, ya ain’t gonna have any money to pay for ass wiping. All hell rain down on the whole damn family. And don’t leave out The Kushners. Let the witch hunts continue. Gonna get you damn witches. (No disrespect to good witches) just the criminal ones the right keep whining about.

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 12:14 AM

48. yeah he is

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:51 PM

12. What's the score now?

0 for 60 in the election fraud suits. Several more recent losses. Many of his henchmen going down. Even the “victory” of getting Loose Cannon to appoint the special master turned out badly. Of course, getting away with his con for fifty plus years is on the plus side of his ledger.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:51 PM

13. Excellent! 👏👏👏👏

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:53 PM

14. Heinz ought to send a box full of ketchup bombs for the Con to throw

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:55 PM

15. Appeals panel says judge erred in blocking DOJ probe of Mar-a-Lago documents

This makes me smile. Judge Cannon's opinion was dreck and the briefs filed by TFG and the Texas AG were so bad that these filings were funny


https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/21/donald-trump-special-master-00058176

A three-judge appeals court panel has granted the Justice Department’s request to block aspects of U.S. District Court Judge Aileen Cannon’s ruling that enjoined a criminal investigation into highly sensitive documents seized from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate.

The panel ruled that Cannon erred when she prevented federal prosecutors from using the 100 documents — marked as classified — recovered from Trump’s estate as part of a criminal inquiry.

“[Trump] has not even attempted to show that he has a need to know the information contained in the classified documents,” the panel ruled in a 29-page decision. “Nor has he established that the current administration has waived that requirement for these documents.”

Two of the three judges on the panel, Andrew Brasher and Britt Grant, were appointed to the court by Trump. The third, Robin Rosenbaum, was appointed by President Barack Obama. In the unanimous decision, the judges declared it “self-evident” that the public interest favored allowing the Justice Department to determine whether any of the records were improperly disclosed, risking national security damage.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:06 PM

20. This part

Last edited Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:37 PM - Edit history (1)

"The Supreme Court has recognized for reasons "too obvious to call for enlarged discussion, the protection of classified information, must be committed to the broad discretion of the agency responsible, and this must include broad discretion to determine who may have access to it".


Open and shut.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 12:08 PM

63. A rare judicial benchslap

Nobody likes to suffer such public humiliation. Maybe Cannon will learn from this.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:58 PM

16. One Obama Judge and Two Trump Judges

made up the three judge panel.

Makes the decision all the more sweet.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 07:59 PM

17. Well, it is the 21st of September

plus a happy tune. Stomp a foot.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:04 PM

19. 2 of the 3 are TFG appointees

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Response to mcar (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:18 PM

26. You beat me to it! n/t

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:06 PM

22. Hey Donald... wanna get away. Lol.

I expect him to give a rant on his platform tonight the likes of which the world has never seen!!!

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Response to padah513 (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:08 PM

23. He can't escape to Moscow! They'd draft him!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:11 PM

24. Justice!

Eat sh*t and die, Cannon!

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Response to Aghast (Reply #24)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:34 PM

33. Welcome to DU, Aghast!

One of my best friends just called me to share "A Moment of Gloat!

I've had to comfort myself for several years with this schmuck who keeps getting away with everything - that "nothing lasts forever!" And those three words have been my mantra - that I've repeated to myself to help keep the faith! "Seriously, CAN this last forever?" And she's been growling about the same thing. Well, we had a high-five moment on the phone just now.

MOST satisfying!

More, please!!!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:17 PM

25. Two of the three judges (Grant and Brasher) were appointed by Trump. n/t

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:26 PM

28. FANTASTIC!!!

I hope they work fast, and see everything they need to see before the schmucks appeal and try to get it stopped.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:28 PM

29. How sweet it is. nt

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:28 PM

30. That wasn't even close. They clearly stomped on Cannon/Trump ...nt

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:34 PM

31. This opinion is well done and was fun to read

I love good legal draftmanship and this opinion is well done. The opinion in effect rebukes Judge Loose Cannon and shows that she does not understand the law.

Here is a link to the opinion. https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-625b-da48-a3e3-e2ff83050000

The three-judge panel destroys some Judge Loose Cannon's claims. For example, the court held that TFG has no right to the 100 secret classified document. These documents are owned by the Federal government and not TFG
. They are “owned by, produced by
or for, or . . . under the control of the United States Government.”
Id. § 1.1. And they include information the “unauthorized disclosure [of which] could reasonably be expected to cause identifiable
or describable damage to the national security.” Id. § 1.4. For this
reason, a person may have access to classified information only if,
among other requirements, he “has a need-to-know the information.” Id. § 4.1(a)(3). This requirement pertains equally to former Presidents, unless the current administration, in its discretion,
chooses to waive that requirement. Id. § 4.4(3).

The declassification argument is a red herring in that declassification has no effect on who owns these documents

Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President. But the record contains no evidence
that any of these records were declassified. And before the special
master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents. See Doc. No. 97 at 2–3., Sept. 19,
2022, letter from James M. Trusty, et al., to Special Master Raymond J. Dearie, at 2–3. In any event, at least for these purposes,
the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying
an official document would not change its content or render it personal. So even if we assumed that Plaintiff did declassify some or
all of the documents, that would not explain why he has a personal
interest in them.
This factor—the Plaintiff’s personal interest (or lack thereof)
in the documents—also weighs against exercising jurisdiction.

The panel rejects Loose Cannon's claim that TFG is special and this opinion treats TFG the same as ordinary citizen.

The remaining potential injury identified by the district
court is “the threat of future prosecution and the serious, often indelible stigma associated therewith.” Doc. No. 64 at 10. No doubt
the threat of prosecution can weigh heavily on the mind of someone under investigation. But without diminishing the seriousness
of that burden, “if the mere threat of prosecution were allowed to
constitute irreparable harm . . . every potential defendant could
point to the same harm and invoke the equitable powers of the district court.” United States v. Search of Law Office, Residence, and
Storage Unit Alan Brown, 341 F.3d 404, 415 (5th Cir. 2003) (quotation omitted). If this concern were sufficient to constitute irreparable harm, courts’ “exercise of [their] equitable jurisdiction would
not be extraordinary, but instead quite ordinary.” Id........

Second, we find unpersuasive Plaintiff’s insistence that he
would be harmed by a criminal investigation. “Bearing the discomfiture and cost of a prosecution for crime even by an innocent person is one of the painful obligations of citizenship.” Cobbledick v.
United States, 309 U.S. 323, 325 (1940)


I had fun geeking out are reading this opinion.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:51 PM

34. This part

“if the mere threat of prosecution were allowed to
constitute irreparable harm . . . every potential defendant could
point to the same harm and invoke the equitable powers of the district court.”


has basically been the argument of every legal pundit, along with the quip about every defendant also demanding a "Special Master" for their cases!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:54 PM

36. The Oath Keeper idiot asked for a special master and ws denied

Other criminal defendant and criminal defense attorneys are wanting to ask for special masters. If TFG can get a special master, then every defendant is entitled to a special master. I saw that the Oath Keeper asshole asked for a special master and was denied this request.


https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/why-not-me-judges-credulous-mar-a-lago-ruling-leaves-some-attorneys-wanting-more

The rulings from U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon for the Southern District of Florida in the Mar-a-Lago case have been described as wrong, illegal, and even corrupt.

But Cannon’s ruling, if ever extended to anyone beyond Trump, would open up new opportunities for defense attorneys or those seeking to challenge executive branch classification decisions.

Lawyers representing clients in national security matters or defending them before white collar prosecutions would now, under Judge Cannon’s interpretation of the law, be able to sift through evidence that prosecutors gather even before the DOJ decides whether or not to file charges.

It’s a massive advantage that, so far, has only ever really been accorded to Trump.

“Every defendant would love to have a special master with a search warrant, as it would give you two bites at the apple with suppression of evidence,” Harry Sandick, a former Manhattan federal prosecutor now in private practice, told TPM.,,,,,,

Moss also tweeted that “my clients fight tooth and nail to properly handle litigation matters involving classified information, and the government (with approval from the courts) routinely hamstring us. Donald Trump hoards TS/SCI documents at his resort and he gets to challenge the records.”

Cannon’s ruling, if applied more broadly, would both completely upend how the law around classifications works and raise bizarre separation of powers disputes.

“I appreciate the impulse to say, you know what, I’m not convinced that I should completely just blindly trust the executive branch on this,” Kel McClanahan, executive director of National Security Counselors, told TPM. “That is, in a vacuum, a reasonable impulse. I, myself, have that impulse all the time. And I argue for it, I litigate over it.”

McClanahan pointed out that Cannon had based her decision on claims about classification that Trump himself had not made.

“The Kel McClanahans of the world will not say that you can overcome national security deference — whatever level it might be — by vague, hypothetical, potential allegations made by an attorney,” he added.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #36)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:38 PM

43. LOL

as a retired fed, I know from experience that "government issue" is a thing!

Until fairly recently (I guess the past 20 or so years when places like Staples and Office Max were selling office supplies on GSA Schedule), even the Skillcraft ballpoint pens were classically customized like this -



My dad worked for the VA for 20 years (before it became the Department of Veterans Affairs, from the mid-50s to mid 70s) and I grew up seeing those pens.

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #31)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:08 AM

56. +1

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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #31)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 11:19 AM

62. 💯

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:34 PM

32. Whomp!


The court went on to say, “In any event, at least for these purposes, the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying an official document would not change its content or render it personal.”


In other words, Dearie, you’re an idiot

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:52 PM

35. You mean Cannon

vs Dearie!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 08:55 PM

37. The order states "pending appeal"?

Does that mean it does or does go into effect immediately?

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #37)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:01 PM

38. Litman was talking about this on Chris Hayes' show

Right now it is stayed but there is an option to go to the SCOTUS (but he doesn't think the SCOTUS would "reach down" and un-do the stay).

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:28 PM

41. Or could it be that this is just the emergency intervention part?

If memory serves, DOJ appealed the overall Special Master decision, as well as a separate emergency intervention concerning just the classified documents. The overall appeal will take longer, you see.

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Response to Lasher (Reply #41)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 07:02 AM

50. I think this was just the emergency stay request

but some of the legal pundits mentioned there was the option to request an en banc review of this, and I expect the arguments about whether to do that or not are probably fierce between the "client" (who wants to gum up the works and drag it out) and his attorneys.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #50)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:01 AM

55. Politico thinks an en blanc review might not be permitted.

The 11th Circuit’s rules appear to preclude any attempt to ask the full bench of that court to reconsider the government’s motion, but Trump could seek emergency relief from the Supreme Court.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/21/donald-trump-special-master-00058176

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Response to Lasher (Reply #55)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 10:21 AM

58. Okay

A bunch of the usual MSNBC legal pundits (former US Attorneys, etc) mentioned "possible en banc" last night, although they were still smirking about the beat-down that Cannon got with that ruling!

Weissmann actually clarified by retweeting this last night -




Andrew Weissmann 🌻
@AWeissmann_
·
Follow
In the weeds as to what Trump cd do now. But SCOTUS review is a losing proposition. And the Dearie SM proceedings are now largely about irrelevancies. And Dearie will make short work of it.
Steve Vladeck
@steve_vladeck
Eleventh Circuit Rule 35-4 expressly prohibits en banc reconsideration of panel rulings on applications for stays.

In English, if Trump wants to continue to defend Judge Cannon's injunction, his only remaining option is #SCOTUS (where, IMHO, he'll lose):

https://ca11.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/courtdocs/clk/Rules_Bookmark_AUG22.pdf
Image
9:44 PM · Sep 21, 2022




And Katyal had this -




Neal Katyal
@neal_katyal
·
Follow
Trump can try to go to the US Supreme Court but it's a loser every day of the week. He just got obliterated by the Court of Appeals. Take a look at this, from the unanimous court (including 2 of 3 who were Trump appointees)
Image
8:09 PM · Sep 21, 2022


Was checking on Bradley Moss who was also on last night with Lawrence O'Donnell and saw this -




Bradley P. Moss
@BradMossEsq
·
Follow
It's two of your former client's appointees, Jenna. They applied the actual law.
Jenna Ellis 🍊🦅
@JennaEllisEsq
The 11th Circuit is full of it. 💩
7:58 PM · Sep 21, 2022


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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:08 PM

39. Fukyeah

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:21 PM

40. But, what about going through the rest

of the materials to check for personal items belonging to Trump?

If some of those items indicate a different type of crime, can't DOJ use them as evidence to investigate?

Or can Trump claim that they are personal items not covered by the search warrant?

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Response to wnylib (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:47 PM

45. I expect that is why DOJ wanted to go through all of it

but the only things that might be "personal" would be attorney-client stuff and all those magazines, newspaper clippings & photos, etc.

Plus if there were any gifts from heads of state given while he was President that were in those boxes, ALL of those belong to the federal government and are maintained by the WH Curator (and in some cases the Smithsonian at some point). They are "gifts" given to "The Office of the President", NOT to the person who is President. So all of that stuff needs to be kept by DOJ and transferred to the Archivists and Curators, etc.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #45)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:50 PM

46. Thanks. Hope they do get to keep anything that he should not have.

Imagine personal notes about J6 or the Ukrainian extortion call. Personal or government?

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Response to wnylib (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 10:17 PM

47. I think the earlier subpoenas back in the spring

may have asked for that type of material as they were looking for stuff that was subject to the Presidential Records Act and if they found anything in the boxes taken from the search where that law applied, that would be something they keep.

When I was in the lab, we kept a "diary" of our work for the day, which was kept in a bound green book that looked like these (there were big ones and small ones) -







When we filled them up, we preserved them and periodically our admin staff would come around and collect them (with all kinds of other documents based on the Records Schedule), would box them, label the boxes, and transport them to the big National Archives Warehouse here in Philly for storage.

So THAT is how documents that are preserved are dealt with. That stuff belongs to the federal government and is preserved depending on the agency's Records Control Schedule - in some cases destroyed 1 year or 5 years or 20 years later, and in other cases, the material is preserved permanently. Other material could be destroyed (shredded, magnetized, etc). And I expect for the Office of the Presidency, most of that stuff is to be preserved "permanently" (something that I think happened after Nixon with passage of that Presidential Records Act).

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #47)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 07:43 AM

53. Hell, every company where I've worked considers my work product their intellectual property

This is standard in even non-governmental operations, but even more so in government. I worked for a company under contract with the Navy and learned all about record preservation there. And this was a private company.

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Response to Novara (Reply #53)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 07:53 AM

54. Yup very true

and with private industry, particularly for those doing manufacturing, that "information" is often used for patent applications.

And depending on how they write the government contracts, in many cases it explicitly states that "the government owns" that work product. I have mentioned that in threads about NASA's various spaceflights. I.e., "NASA" is not "building" those rockets but is working in collaboration with multiple contractors to design and assemble those craft, where those contracts give "ownership" to "the government" and NASA can slap its name on the side (and that includes that poor Artemis Project rocket that is apparently delayed until next week at the earliest).

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2022, 09:29 PM

42. Huge win!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 07:22 AM

51. The appellate court could have simply stopped when it concluded ...

ResponsibleDispatchHat Retweeted

One final point – the appellate court could have simply stopped when it concluded (as Cannon also did) that the first jurisdictional factor favored the government. That it chose to go further and explicitly reverse her on each of the other three factors is worthy of note.


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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #51)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 07:33 AM

52. In other words

in a unanimous, per curiam decision, the judges roundly and publicly, excoriated her, from top to bottom, for her idiotic ruling and nonsensical justifications!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 09:45 AM

57. This tweet aged well ..

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #57)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 10:38 AM

59. There were a billion "move out" pics back just before the inauguration

including staffers taking actual WH artifacts (e.g., Lincoln bust and the criminal taking a framed photo of 45 with XI), as they left!






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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 10:54 AM

60. That was sweet.

I wonder if Cannon has done her subservience and is out of gas on Trump's behalf. She now has to deal with the whining. Or, wining, to get through the days and nights of regret. Everything the Orange Turd touches, dies.

I was especially pleased that they noted that Trump's lawyers refused to provide to Dearie the details of how Trump allegedly declassified any documents. How did they discover that? Are they doing extracurricular reading, or did Dearie transmit the weak letter that Trump sent to him re his timeline to them? Or, did someone else? This was pretty swift.

Cobbledick?? Who has a name like "Cobbledick?"

I also loved the clear explanations and careful detailing of their reasoning. They also pointed out the contradictory and vague reasoning of the District Court's ruling. She got tromped.

And, they also noted that there might be missing documents to search out.

I feel so much better today! Two wins, back to back. Tell me, if Trump is kicked out of New York, does poor Ivana get dug up for removal from his former golf course? What loving child allows his/her mother to be buried in a pauper's grave like that?? I'll bet, since she got cremated, that she's not even in that grave. What is?

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 11:17 AM

61. r&k Excellent. ❤

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2022, 02:41 PM

64. It's about time.

Trump's options to delay the investigation further are very limited. I strongly doubt the SCOTUS would back him up.

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