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Mon Jun 27, 2022, 02:54 PM

New York judge rules law allowing non-citizens to vote is unconstitutional

Source: MSN/Reuters

A New York state judge struck down a new law on Monday that gave hundreds of thousands of non-citizen residents of New York City the right to vote in municipal elections.

Judge Ralph Porzio, of New York State Supreme Court for Staten Island, ruled the law violated the state constitution, which says that "[e]very citizen" is entitled to vote.

The City Council, controlled by Democrats, passed the law last December, and it went into effect after both Mayor Bill de Blasio and his successor in January, Eric Adams, declined to either sign it or veto it.

The law allowed an estimated 800,000 to 1 million non-citizens living in the city as lawful permanent residents of the United States or with U.S. authorization to work here to vote in elections for city-wide office, but not in state-wide or federal elections. There are about 6.7 million people of voting age in New York City.

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-judge-rules-law-allowing-non-citizens-to-vote-is-unconstitutional/ar-AAYVAdd

33 replies, 2231 views

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Reply New York judge rules law allowing non-citizens to vote is unconstitutional (Original post)
toesonthenose Jun 27 OP
JohnSJ Jun 27 #1
oldsoftie Jun 27 #10
Lil Liberal Laura Jun 27 #2
oldsoftie Jun 27 #11
Joinfortmill Jun 28 #23
ebbie15644 Jun 27 #3
Rebl2 Jun 27 #9
70sEraVet Jun 27 #4
VMA131Marine Jun 27 #5
MichMan Jun 27 #6
FBaggins Jun 27 #7
VMA131Marine Jun 27 #12
brooklynite Jun 28 #16
VMA131Marine Jun 28 #18
sheepfarm Jun 28 #28
FBaggins Jun 28 #22
VMA131Marine Jun 28 #25
FBaggins Jun 28 #27
VMA131Marine Jun 28 #29
purr-rat beauty Jun 27 #8
VMA131Marine Jun 28 #30
Polybius Jun 27 #13
onetexan Jun 28 #14
mathematic Jun 28 #15
brooklynite Jun 28 #17
VMA131Marine Jun 28 #20
mathematic Jun 28 #21
brooklynite Jun 28 #24
VMA131Marine Jun 28 #26
mathematic Jun 28 #31
brooklynite Jun 28 #32
VMA131Marine Jun 28 #19
myohmy2 Jun 28 #33

Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 03:01 PM

1. That is the way it should be. They are trying to do that in some locales in California. Things

like this are almost as good as ďdefund the policeĒ

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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 05:15 PM

10. Good point & correct. nt

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 03:06 PM

2. Non-Citizens Should NOT be Allowed to Vote

Fighting right-wing psychosis with left-wing psychosis is not the way to succeed! I say that, knowing this could be my last post here.

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Response to Lil Liberal Laura (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 05:15 PM

11. I certainly hope not. You're simply speaking the truth.

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Response to Lil Liberal Laura (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:55 PM

23. I don't get this either. Citizens vote. Non citizens don't

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 03:06 PM

3. I agree with this ruling

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Response to ebbie15644 (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 04:49 PM

9. Same here

I can just see tfg supporters from other countries coming to this country and voting for him or other deranged republicans.

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 03:16 PM

4. Never a good idea to give ammunition to the enemy.

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 03:20 PM

5. No taxation without representation

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 03:46 PM

6. Why are non resident income taxes permitted then?

I pay non resident income taxes in cities I dont live in and thus are not permitted to vote in.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 03:46 PM

7. That was a claim between British citizens and the crown.

A French citizen in the colonies would still have to only purchase printed material that bore the tax stamp (the Stamp Act triggered the "no taxation" response)... but was due no representation.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 06:05 PM

12. Why shouldn't residents of a city have a say in how that city is run

As long as they are in the US legally. Cities donít deal with questions of national or international policy. About 10% of NYCs population are green card holders. They deserve a voice in how the city is run.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:04 PM

16. If you moved to Paris, would you expect to be able to vote there?

London? Tokyo? Sydney?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:30 PM

18. So you're reasoning why it shouldn't be done here

Is because itís not done in the selected cities you mentioned. Thatís not a good argument. What would be the harm. Weíre talking about local issues here and it seems to me the more engaged people are with the local government the better off everyone is. Instead, in NYC you have at least 10% of the population thatís not engaged in community issues because they donít have a say.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:19 PM

28. Not 100% sure about London, but in Northern Ireland...

...(where I live) foreigners of certain nationalities that are permanently resident have the right to vote in certain elections. EU citizens have the right to vote in local (district/borough/city) council & NI Assembly elections, while Irish & Commonwealth of Nations citizens (which include Cyprus & Malta that are in the EU) are also entitled to vote in General Elections. It's worth noting however that an American citizen resident in NI wouldn't be eligible to vote in any election unless they had multiple citizenship where at least one of them qualifies - so a dual Canadan/American citizen holder would be able to vote in all elections. Info can be found at the link below - TBH I'd doubt it's much different across the rest of the UK.

https://www.eoni.org.uk/Register-To-Vote/Registration-FAQs

From rough memory, an EU citizen resident in another EU country has at least the right to vote in EU elections in their country of residence, and I think some municipalities in Switzerland allow foreign residents the right to vote in local (not Federal or Cantonal) elections but I might be proved wrong on that.

----

Edit: From checking on the gov.uk website regarding elections, an American citizen whom is nominally resident in either Scotland or Wales can vote in either local elections as well as elections to the Scottish or Welsh Parliament, but can't vote in a General Election (i.e. those to send MPs to the House of Commons in Westminster).

https://www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:53 PM

22. That's an argument for them becoming citizens, not for allowing non-citizens to vote

The ability to vote has historically been the dividing line between citizen/resident. There may be reasonable arguments for local elections not using the same dividing line (as implied in your question), but courts don't make new law based on what they think would be a good policy. State law (and the state constitution) define who can vote and never delegated the power to define that differently to the city.

So whether it's a good idea or not... it isn't legal.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:06 PM

25. In National and probably state elections that's still a good distinction

but in local elections I think itís entirely reasonable that all permanent residents get a say because the policies of the local government directly affect how they live and voting gets them invested in the process. In NYC for example, a large fraction of the 1 million legal immigrants will become citizens when they have been here a sufficient period of time. But note that policies Trump and previous administrations have put in place make it much more difficult, time consuming, and expensive to become a citizen. The latter will shut out a lot of the lower income immigrants for a start. Perhaps a statement of intent to become a citizen would be sufficient to assuage any concern you have about letting them vote.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #25)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:14 PM

27. Again - that's an argument to convince the state to amend its constitution

It isn't an argument that the city should be allowed to ignore state law.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:25 PM

29. I'm responding to the tone of many of the comments

which is that the state law is fine as it is. I disagree.

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 04:37 PM

8. If we want to end Corporations from being counted as people

We cannot support non-citizens from counting as voters

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Response to purr-rat beauty (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:28 PM

30. Those two things are not related

Corporations canít vote because the are not live persons. Although Republicans would probably let them vote by mail.

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Mon Jun 27, 2022, 11:54 PM

13. That judge was in my house once for a party when I was like 10

Very right-wing guy. Still, the decision is correct.

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 03:44 AM

14. I had no clue noncitizens could vote in any election

Including local municipal elections. I agree in this case.

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 11:49 AM

15. People having a say in how their community is run is the essence of democracy

Bunch of people in this thread with some terribly anti-immigrant views.

What's the problem with permanent residents voting? Is there some misunderstanding about what "permanent" means?

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Response to mathematic (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:05 PM

17. Permanent residents of Country "A" are still citizens of Country "B". They can vote there.

Simpler question. My wife lives and votes in NYC. She has an apartment in DC and spends part of her week there. Should she vote there as well?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:33 PM

20. On strictly local issues, I don't see a problem with voting in both places

She obviously pays taxes, directly or indirectly, in both locations and is affected by local policies in each as well.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:49 PM

21. Your wife doesn't live in DC, why should she be able to vote there?

Permanent residents in NYC live in NYC. They're not just there "part of their week". They're immigrants living in this country permanently. I actually don't understand how you think that's similar to your wife spending some time in any location that isn't her domicile for any particular duration or for any reason.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:04 PM

24. But she lives in NYC only four days a week...

...what's substantially different between the impacts of Government decisions in DC and the impacts of Government decisions in NYC?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:09 PM

26. Precisely, she should be able to vote in strictly local elections

in both places

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 01:38 PM

31. She lives in NYC permanently, you said so yourself.

" My wife lives and votes in NYC."

You meant domiciled and I read domiciled. Stop pretending otherwise. Everybody knows there's a difference between where a person might stay for some period of time during a year and where they live. OK? The permanent residents in NYC live in NYC. They're not taking the LIRR out from Suffolk every day. They're not in NYC only three days a week or even only 179 days a year. They're there the whole time.

So now that you understand that NYC wasn't giving the vote to commuters, vacationers, and truck drivers just passing through, I'm going to assume you support giving permanent residents of NYC voting rights.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 04:11 PM

32. Permanent residency is a legal term...like citizenship

My wife splits her time, pays taxes and has residences in both cities.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 12:31 PM

19. I'm with you on this.

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Response to toesonthenose (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2022, 07:42 PM

33. I might be...

...more sympathetic if he would have included Republicans who are a much bigger threat to any election...

...who would you rather see vote, lawful permanent residents or Republicans?

...that's a tough one...

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