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Wicked Blue

(6,902 posts)
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:20 AM Feb 2022

Putin tells Ukraine military to 'take power into your own hands'

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: BBC

Here's more from Vladimir Putin, who is addressing the Russian Security Council - and, indirectly, the Ukrainian military.

He says Banderites - a reference to World War Two anti-Soviet fighter Stepan Bandera - and so-called neo-Nazis "have put up heavy armaments including multiple rocket launch systems" in cities, including Kyiv and Kharkiv.

"Neo-Nazis" is a regularly used by President Putin to deride the Ukrainian government. Ukraine's President Zelensky, who is Jewish, has dismissed the term.

Putin says: "They are acting like terrorists across the world, shielding behind people in order to accuse Russia of causing casualties among the peaceful population.

Read more: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Putin tells Ukraine military to 'take power into your own hands' (Original Post) Wicked Blue Feb 2022 OP
Play nicer with the peace invaders? BeyondGeography Feb 2022 #1
He's been in shut off in that palace for quite some time underpants Feb 2022 #2
Putin revealed he can't actually win. C_U_L8R Feb 2022 #3
My read also Deminpenn Feb 2022 #28
To provide insight into his thinking, this is the relevant part of what he just said: Ghost Dog Feb 2022 #29
It is true that Deminpenn Feb 2022 #30
If Russia installs a puppet, gab13by13 Feb 2022 #4
If Zelensky survives Wicked Blue Feb 2022 #5
HAHAHAHA Jilly_in_VA Feb 2022 #6
I've always thought of Putin--and Trump--with the word "cockalorum." Lonestarblue Feb 2022 #14
With any luck, the Russian military will take power into their own hands. kysrsoze Feb 2022 #7
It's more psy-ops, but... EarlG Feb 2022 #8
Didn't a Russian platoon surrender yesterday? Wicked Blue Feb 2022 #9
I saw that story and it seemed hopeful but EarlG Feb 2022 #11
Hmmm, you might be right. Offer of a ceasfire could suggest TeamProg Feb 2022 #19
Makes you wonder whats really going on blue-wave Feb 2022 #10
BBC: Russia has lost momentum, US says Wicked Blue Feb 2022 #15
Nice report! I hope Ukraine is kicking ass. Thanks blue-wave Feb 2022 #16
I just posted more on this from CNN nt Wicked Blue Feb 2022 #18
200,000 untrained soldiers attacks a country with 44,000,000 inhabitants ... TomWilm Feb 2022 #12
I'm having flashbacks to Dubya invading Iraq Vogon_Glory Feb 2022 #25
"so called neo-Nazis" Justice matters. Feb 2022 #13
Putin lies about everything blue-wave Feb 2022 #17
Right back at ya ck4829 Feb 2022 #20
There are goose-steppers in every nation of the world. MarcA Feb 2022 #21
The only way that works is, gab13by13 Feb 2022 #23
Agreed. Of course Augusto had his Chicago Boys supporters. n/t MarcA Feb 2022 #24
If Putin doesn't get the Ukrainian army to flip gab13by13 Feb 2022 #22
like the U.S. traitor, did putin try to place his thugs Marthe48 Feb 2022 #26
Stepan Andriyovych Bandera (Wikipedia) Ghost Dog Feb 2022 #27
After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING Omaha Steve Feb 2022 #31

BeyondGeography

(40,128 posts)
1. Play nicer with the peace invaders?
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:22 AM
Feb 2022

Fuck this guy.

underpants

(187,903 posts)
2. He's been in shut off in that palace for quite some time
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:23 AM
Feb 2022

Maybe he thinks his old KGB torture/coercion stuff can work on a mass population

C_U_L8R

(45,906 posts)
3. Putin revealed he can't actually win.
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:23 AM
Feb 2022

He wants this over asap. After a very undecisive start, things are only going to get worse for him.

Deminpenn

(16,407 posts)
28. My read also
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 02:12 PM
Feb 2022

Two days in and already trying to get Ukrainian forces to self-surrender? Putin must be worried about his army holding together, resupplying itself or both.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
29. To provide insight into his thinking, this is the relevant part of what he just said:
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 03:03 PM
Feb 2022
... The main clashes of the Russian Army, as expected, are not taking place with regular units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but with nationalist formations, which, as you know, are directly responsible for the genocide in Donbass and the bloodshed of civilians in the people's republics.
In addition, the nationalist elements embedded in the regular Ukrainian units not only incite them to offer armed resistance, but, in fact, play the role of blocking units.

Moreover, according to the available information, and this is confirmed by the results of objective control, we see that Bandera supporters and neo-Nazis are deploying heavy weapons, including multiple launch rocket systems, right in the central regions of large cities, including Kiev and Kharkov. They plan to provoke return fire from Russian strike systems on residential areas. In fact, they act in the same way as terrorists do around the world, hiding behind people in the hope of later blaming Russia for the civilian casualties.

It is known that all this is happening on the recommendation of foreign instructors, primarily American advisers.

Once again, I appeal to the servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Do not allow neo-Nazis and Bandera supporters to use your children, your wives, and elderly people as human shields. Take power into your own hands. It seems that it will be easier for us to come to an agreement than with this gang of junkies and neo-Nazis, who settled in Kiev and took the entire Ukrainian people hostage...

Deminpenn

(16,407 posts)
30. It is true that
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 03:12 PM
Feb 2022

the US has been training Ukrainian paramilitary units both here and there and has been since about 2014.

gab13by13

(25,834 posts)
4. If Russia installs a puppet,
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:32 AM
Feb 2022

6 months from now when Zalensky is restored to power, his first act should be a request to join NATO.

Wicked Blue

(6,902 posts)
5. If Zelensky survives
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:34 AM
Feb 2022

Jilly_in_VA

(11,349 posts)
6. HAHAHAHA
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:36 AM
Feb 2022

Yeah right, shorty.

Lonestarblue

(12,105 posts)
14. I've always thought of Putin--and Trump--with the word "cockalorum."
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:03 AM
Feb 2022

Dictionary definition: a boastful and self-important person. Perhaps we can dub them the Cockalorum Club.

kysrsoze

(6,196 posts)
7. With any luck, the Russian military will take power into their own hands.
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:39 AM
Feb 2022

Shitbag Putin knows he's losing. I'm seeing rumblings in his own country that I hope reverberate. Russian citizens are sick of the wasted resources and lives of the Russian government's belligerence.

EarlG

(22,694 posts)
8. It's more psy-ops, but...
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:40 AM
Feb 2022

I think Putin's ideal scenario would have been the spectacle of Russian tanks driving unopposed into Kyiv, while the Ukrainian military collapsed and the government fled to exile. Then he could claim to have "freed" the Ukrainian people from their "oppressors" and get about the business of installing a sham government, which would then "invite" Russian troops to stay in the country in a "peacekeeping" role.

The fact that he feels like he needs to make this announcement, along with his simultaneous offer of a ceasefire if Ukraine surrenders and demilitarizes, does make me wonder if things aren't going as well as the Kremlin hoped.

Wicked Blue

(6,902 posts)
9. Didn't a Russian platoon surrender yesterday?
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:41 AM
Feb 2022

Thought I read that someplace.

EarlG

(22,694 posts)
11. I saw that story and it seemed hopeful but
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:47 AM
Feb 2022

I would take any stories coming out of the warzone with a grain of salt at the moment. It's going to be very difficult to tell what's real and what's propaganda.

 

TeamProg

(6,630 posts)
19. Hmmm, you might be right. Offer of a ceasfire could suggest
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:22 AM
Feb 2022

complaints at home about the deaths and harm to other Russian peoples & relatives - and perhaps the financial sanctions.

blue-wave

(4,488 posts)
10. Makes you wonder whats really going on
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:42 AM
Feb 2022

The media has a somewhat defeatist attitude toward Ukraine, like they have no chance and Kyiv is about fall at any moment. Then Putin appeals to the Ukrainian military directly with this nonsense. Sounds desperate on Putin's part.

Then I see this report from the Ukrainian side with some really impressive numbers:

Russian forces have lost about 2,800 people since the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine.

Deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine Hanna Maliar wrote on Facebook, Ukrinform reports.

"Since the beginning of the Russian Federation’s open large-scale invasion of Ukraine’s territory, the troops of the invading country have suffered the following losses (approximately): as of 15:00 - up to 80 tanks, 516 armored combat vehicles of various types, 10 aircraft, 7 helicopters, and about 2,800 personnel,” Maliar wrote.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3412868-enemy-forces-lost-about-2800-personnel-since-start-of-invasion-defense-ministry.html


I hope the Ukrainians are winning but the reality is you just don't know.

Wicked Blue

(6,902 posts)
15. BBC: Russia has lost momentum, US says
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:06 AM
Feb 2022

10:56

A US defence official has said Russian forces have lost momentum in their invasion of Ukraine.

According to the Reuters news agency the official said no Ukrainian population centres have been taken so far, but some Russian missiles have impacted residential areas.

They added there are also indications of cyber attacks against the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant in the south of Ukraine.

I've hit a paywall with Reuters so I'm unable to get details

blue-wave

(4,488 posts)
16. Nice report! I hope Ukraine is kicking ass. Thanks
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:10 AM
Feb 2022

Wicked Blue

(6,902 posts)
18. I just posted more on this from CNN nt
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:13 AM
Feb 2022

TomWilm

(1,868 posts)
12. 200,000 untrained soldiers attacks a country with 44,000,000 inhabitants ...
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 10:53 AM
Feb 2022

... the math doesn't add up, even including tanks. Putin has totally lost his marbles.

Vogon_Glory

(9,638 posts)
25. I'm having flashbacks to Dubya invading Iraq
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 12:41 PM
Feb 2022

Last edited Fri Feb 25, 2022, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

I think that somebody in the Kremlin is making the same sorts of assumptions that Buckaroo Bush made when he sent US forces into Iraq: that the population will be tickled pink to see foreign troops in their country, that the local army won’t fight, and that he’ll be able to control Ukraine with under 200,000 troops.

While I doubt that Ukrainian President Zelenskiy has planned as thoroughly for post-occupation resistance as Saddam Hussein did, it looks like he might have been taking notes. If he lets civilians emty the armories, the invaders are in for a rough time.

Justice matters.

(7,678 posts)
13. "so called neo-Nazis"
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:01 AM
Feb 2022
Projection I recall Hitler invading Austria and then Czechoslovakia, and then again Poland for "regime change"... funny how that works...

"accusing Russia of causing casualties among the peaceful population"

ummm That's exactly what putti put DOES right now!!

blue-wave

(4,488 posts)
17. Putin lies about everything
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:11 AM
Feb 2022

Just days ago he was saying he was not going to invade Ukraine.

ck4829

(36,441 posts)
20. Right back at ya
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 11:49 AM
Feb 2022

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
21. There are goose-steppers in every nation of the world.
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 12:06 PM
Feb 2022

So by putin's illogic, every country in the world should invade
all the other countries.

gab13by13

(25,834 posts)
23. The only way that works is,
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 12:15 PM
Feb 2022

1. the existing military joins with the invaders.
2. The occupying army must remain in the country to enforce the new regime in the midst of an insurgency.

Pinocet drove tanks down the main street of Santiago and fired 26 rockets into the federal building. He assumed control of the country because the military backed him. Putin is sadly mistaken if he thinks that is what is going to happen.

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
24. Agreed. Of course Augusto had his Chicago Boys supporters. n/t
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 12:23 PM
Feb 2022

gab13by13

(25,834 posts)
22. If Putin doesn't get the Ukrainian army to flip
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 12:10 PM
Feb 2022

that means he is going to have to occupy Ukraine for a very long time to fight back the insurgency, and I don't see the Ukranian army flipping. Putin can install a puppet but that puppet means nothing unless he has someone to enforce his rules. You are going to have to keep your army in Ukraine for a very long time Vlad, I hope the Russian people don't get too upset.

Marthe48

(19,742 posts)
26. like the U.S. traitor, did putin try to place his thugs
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 12:52 PM
Feb 2022

in all the right places? Hope that is a big failure.

I see a thug who had a vision to get russia back to the way it was at the height of it's power. He thought the U.S. was going to roll over and let it happen. This is his last chance, and boy, so far, he is failing.

How do people keep believing thugs who'd sell their own mother?

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
27. Stepan Andriyovych Bandera (Wikipedia)
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 02:05 PM
Feb 2022
Stepan Andriyovych Bandera (Ukrainian: Степан Андрійович Бандера, Polish: Stepan Andrijowycz Bandera; 1 January 1909 – 15 October 1959) was a Ukrainian politician and theorist of the militant wing of the far-right Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists[1][2] and a leader and ideologist of Ukrainian ultranationalists known for his involvement in terrorist activities.[1][3]



Born in Galicia (at the time Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, part of Austria-Hungary) into the family of a Greek-Catholic priest, young Bandera became a Ukrainian nationalist. After the Empire disintegrated in the wake of World War I, Galicia briefly became a West Ukrainian People's Republic; following the Polish–Ukrainian War of 1918–1919, it was integrated into eastern Poland. In this period, Bandera became radicalized, and after Polish authorities refused to let him leave for Czechoslovakia to study, he enrolled at the Lviv Polytechnic, where he organized Ukrainian nationalist organizations. For orchestrating the 1934 assassination of Poland's Minister of the Interior Bronisław Pieracki, Bandera was sentenced to death but the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment. In 1939, following the joint German–Soviet invasion of Poland, Bandera was released from prison, and he moved to Kraków in the German-occupied zone of Poland.

Bandera cultivated German military circles favorable to Ukrainian independence, and organized OUN expeditionary groups. When Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union, he prepared the 30 June 1941 Proclamation of Ukrainian statehood in Lviv, pledging to work with Nazi Germany.[4][5] For his refusal to rescind the decree, Bandera was arrested by the Gestapo, which put him under house arrest on 5 July 1941,[6] and later between 1942 and 1943[7] sent him to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp.[8] In 1944, with Germany rapidly losing ground in the war in the face of the advancing Allied armies, Bandera was released in the hope that he would be instrumental in deterring the advancing Soviet forces. He set up the headquarters of the re-established Ukrainian Supreme Liberation Council, which worked underground. He settled with his family in West Germany where he remained the leader of the OUN-B and worked with several anti-communist organizations such as the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations[9][10] as well as with the British intelligence agencies.[9] Fourteen years after the end of the war, Bandera was assassinated in 1959 by KGB agents in Munich.[11][12]

On 22 January 2010, the outgoing President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine.[13] The European Parliament condemned the award,[14] as did Russia,[15] Polish, and Jewish politicians and organizations.[16][17][18] The incoming president Viktor Yanukovych declared the award illegal, since Bandera was never a citizen of Ukraine, a stipulation necessary for getting the award. This announcement was confirmed by a court decision in April 2010.[19] In January 2011, the award was officially annulled.[20] In December 2018, the Ukrainian parliament has moved to again confer the award on Bandera.[21]...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

Omaha Steve

(104,063 posts)
31. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING
Fri Feb 25, 2022, 03:18 PM
Feb 2022

Title mismatch, rolling news.

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