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Fri Sep 17, 2021, 04:05 PM

U.S. drone strike in Kabul mistakenly killed civilians, not terrorists, Pentagon says

Source: NBC

An Aug. 29 drone strike targeting terrorists in Afghanistan mistakenly killed innocent civilians, including children, Pentagon officials admitted Friday.

"We now assess it is unlikely that the vehicle and those who died were associated with ISIS-K," Gen. Kenneth McKenzie, the head of U.S. Central Command said. "It was a mistake."

He said he is "fully responsible for this strike and the tragic outcome."

"I offer my profound condolences to the family and friends of those who were killed," McKenzie said.

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/u-s-drone-strike-kabul-mistakenly-killed-civilians-not-terrorists-n1279476



Yeah sure. Great "over the horizon" capability.

46 replies, 2853 views

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Reply U.S. drone strike in Kabul mistakenly killed civilians, not terrorists, Pentagon says (Original post)
El Supremo Sep 17 OP
bluewater Sep 17 #1
Mosby Sep 17 #2
SmittyWerben Sep 17 #3
Kenneth Almquist Sep 17 #12
left-of-center2012 Sep 17 #4
Magoo48 Sep 18 #24
LT Barclay Sep 18 #33
EX500rider Sep 20 #38
Magoo48 Sep 20 #40
EX500rider Sep 20 #41
Magoo48 Sep 21 #44
El Supremo Sep 17 #5
Igel Sep 17 #6
TheProle Sep 17 #7
Justice matters. Sep 17 #8
bluewater Sep 17 #9
Moebym Sep 17 #10
TheProle Sep 17 #11
marie999 Sep 17 #13
El Supremo Sep 17 #15
TheProle Sep 17 #16
twodogsbarking Sep 18 #23
JI7 Sep 17 #21
robbob Sep 18 #27
JI7 Sep 18 #29
El Supremo Sep 17 #14
bluewater Sep 17 #17
speaktruthtopower Sep 17 #18
El Supremo Sep 17 #19
emmaverybo Sep 19 #36
Aussie105 Sep 17 #20
Polybius Sep 18 #22
IronLionZion Sep 18 #25
ForgoTheConsequence Sep 18 #26
totodeinhere Sep 18 #28
madville Sep 20 #43
Journeyman Sep 18 #30
Aussie105 Sep 18 #31
Deminpenn Sep 18 #32
John1956PA Sep 19 #34
EX500rider Sep 20 #39
Steelrolled Sep 19 #35
madville Sep 20 #42
Socal31 Sep 22 #45
ck4829 Sep 20 #37
Xolodno Sep 23 #46

Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 04:13 PM

1. Very tragic

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 04:14 PM

2. 7 children died, all part of the same family.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 04:48 PM

3. I want to know what intel this strike was based on.

We seemingly had no assets on the ground in the community that weren't trying to flee. How did we find out about the house we hit with the ISIS bomber inside? How did we get real-time information on a moving vehicle? I fully understand the capability of drones to track and strike all this, but there had to be human intel placing the "bad guys" in these locations. Who was that asset?

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Response to SmittyWerben (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 06:49 PM

12. The intelligence was very thin

According to the New York Times, the military took an interest in the vehicle because it was spotted leaving an alleged ISIS safe house. The ISIS safe house may have been classified as such back when we still had people on the ground in Afghanistan. The military tracked the vehicle for the next eight hours. Military sources claim that they saw heavy packages being loaded into the vehicle at one point that they suspected were explosives. The Times couldn't find any evidence to support this claim, although they were told that containers of water were loaded into the vehicle later in the day. Near the end of the day, the vehicle drove in the direction of the Kabul Airport, but before reaching the airport it turned into Amadi's residence. That's were the attack took place, presumably on the assumption that this was a temporary stop and that the vehicle would shortly continue on to the airport where the presumed explosives would be detonated.

The only source of intelligence mentioned by the Times, other than whatever intelligence was used to identify the ISIS safe house, was drone imagery. It appears that the military did not check tax records to determine who owned the buildings where the vehicle stopped, much less use reverse address lookup to determine who resided at those locations.

I think that there was sufficient evidence for the military to be justifiably concerned that the vehicle they were tracking might be a car bomb headed for the Kabul Airport, but not enough for the military to make a definite call either way.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 05:08 PM

4. "We apologize, and we will endeavor to learn from this horrible mistake," he said.

How many horrible mistakes have been made over the years in our countless wars and military actions?
How many children; how many innocent civilians were killed by mistake?

How many times can we say "Oops. Sorry."

Gee ~ I wonder why we are hated?

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 08:53 AM

24. Yup, oops sorry just don't get it. Did we stop that fucking war or not?

Drones are a horror. Sorry? WTF is that? Refit every drone possible for planting trees. Scrap all the others. Apologize to the world for our decades long breach of humanity. Stop shaking our Big, mindless, military dick at he rest of the world. Militarism is smothering our society multiple ways.

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Response to Magoo48 (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 09:13 PM

33. Not the least of which is that same mentality drifting into the civilian world.

Ever noticed that after the humvee had a civilian version, jeeps and pickup trucks had to grow more agressive looking. And now the angular lines of the "stealth" ships and planes are carried over into the lines of high end luxury and sports cars (new Corvette).
Self perpetuating insanity. No wonder trump has such dedicated syncophants.

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Response to Magoo48 (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 20, 2021, 12:25 PM

38. So if a manned bomber released a guided bomb to hit the car that would somehow be better

Last edited Mon Sep 20, 2021, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)

And they'd be releasing it above the height that shoulder fire missile could hit that means over 20,000 ft so they wouldn't be able to see the occupants either

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #38)

Mon Sep 20, 2021, 01:35 PM

40. No, it wouldn't be better. Bombs are fucked up.

America. Stop bombing other nations.

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Response to Magoo48 (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 20, 2021, 02:00 PM

41. So when terrorists bomb civilians and US troops waiting to leave at a airport and kill over 90..

...what actions should the US take to ensure it does not happen a few days later?
A sternly written letter?

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 21, 2021, 07:29 AM

44. No meddling, no mic, no nation building, no profiteering, no occupations, NO FUCKING BOMBS.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 05:23 PM

5. I watched last week's Frontline about the 20 year war and...

people said that due directly to our air and drone strikes killing many civilians that more people joined Al-Quaeda and ISIS. There are now many many times more terrorist fighters in Afghanistan than there were when we first invaded.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 05:43 PM

6. That was last week reported in the Guardian.

And they were reporting on NYT and WaPo reports.

"Finally admitted"--after defending the attacks as "clean" (I think that was the word used) would be better reporting.

What was truly interesting was the way the story was basically ignored.

It's almost as if admitting it's true gave permission for it to be reported widely.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 05:44 PM

7. Disgusting and tragic waste of life

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 05:51 PM

8. Apologies for believing the initial report it was ISIS-K terrorists about to blow themselves.

Someone MUST get fired at DOD for that OTHER mass murder.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 06:16 PM

9. Kicked for visibility.

Very tragic.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 06:17 PM

10. S**t, this is bad

A huge black eye on the military and a boon for recruitment for terrorist orgs.

What the hell happened?

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Response to Moebym (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 06:21 PM

11. "Collateral damage", I believe they call it.

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Response to TheProle (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 07:13 PM

13. Yeh, it sounds nicer than innocent civilians.

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Response to TheProle (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 07:20 PM

15. I hate that term.

Timothy McVeigh used that to explain the children he killed at the Alfred Murrah Federal building. It's a term used by the military since at least Vietnam. Murder is murder.

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Response to El Supremo (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 07:27 PM

16. I hope my disdain for the term was obvious.

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Response to TheProle (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 07:10 AM

23. During Vietnam they showed the kills on the news nightly.

We were winning if we killed twice as many as they did.
It was like a fucking box score.

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Response to Moebym (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 11:44 PM

21. No, The ones who join terrorist groups don't care about these things

They join because they have right wing views .

The terrorists killed a bunch of Afghan girls when they blew up their school.

The terrorists killed a bunch of innocent afghans with the attack that killed the 13 US soldiers .

What we did was fucked up but don't try to claim the terrorists have a problem with it.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #21)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 12:24 PM

27. If you're an apolitical young man going about your life in rural Afghanistan

and you come home one day to the smoking wreckage of your home, your entire family slaughtered by a faceless drone strike, don’t you think that might, just maybe, make you more inclined to take up arms against the people who did that to you?

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Response to robbob (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 03:39 PM

29. When did afghan girls do that to them ?

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 07:15 PM

14. Remember the bullshit about why the blast was so large...

and tore apart the adjacent building killing innocent people inside? Because the vehicle was loaded with explosives they said.

Incompetent liars! I only hope that we are done with this murderous stupidity.

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Response to El Supremo (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 08:03 PM

17. Speaking Truth to Power Here



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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 08:06 PM

18. Have to wonder..

how many other of the drone attacks the past few decades were based on bad intelligence like this.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 08:22 PM

19. Gen. Milley: "I believe it was a righteous strike."

He's got to go.

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Response to El Supremo (Reply #19)

Sun Sep 19, 2021, 02:27 PM

36. That is what he believed at the time based on the facts he had.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Fri Sep 17, 2021, 09:38 PM

20. Complex technology in the hands of paranoid people

and this is what you get.

Not the first 'Oops! Sorry!' moment.

US presence in Afghanistan, up close or via 'intelligently' targeted drone strikes:

Aim: To bring freedom and Democracy to a backward country.

Actual result: To demonize America in the eyes of Afghani citizens and the rest of the world.

The Taliban need to do little to show they are NOT the bad guys. Not when the US makes 'mistakes' like this.

EDIT: Has anyone in the US Government or military actually compiled a list of countries that could be invaded on the ground, or be subject to drone strikes?

Like:
Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, etc - yep, on the list.
China, North Korea, Japan - NOT on the list.

If there is no list, what are the deciding factors?

Seems to be some sort of erroneous moral judgment there.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 12:20 AM

22. The right-wing is going to have a field day with this

And not because they care about the innocent children either.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 09:39 AM

25. It's best if we just stay out of that country

not for a while, but forever. Since clearly nobody in intelligence knows who is who or what is going on anywhere over there.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 09:45 AM

26. They hate us for our freedom.

An idiot once said.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 12:55 PM

28. This was a tragic mistake.

But I think it was just that, a mistake. Mistakes happen in war and innocent civilians always suffer. That's why I am so glad that we are finally out of there.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 20, 2021, 11:23 PM

43. Just like the old saying I guess

To make an omelet, sometimes you have to break a few eggs.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 04:03 PM

30. The tall Arab metal recycler was killed by a drone in February 2002 for the crime . . .

of looking like Osama bin Laden, and for people around him being deferential to him.

On February 4, 2002, a U.S. Predator drone relayed images of a tall man thought to be the leader of Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, on the basis that he was tall and being treated with respect. As the man and two others emerged from a wooded area, a missile was launched from the drone, killing the individuals. This was the first time that a Predator drone was used in a targeted killing; however, there were doubts about whether the man targeted was in fact Osama bin Laden. A few days after the strike, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was asked whether any evidence suggested that Osama bin Laden might have been killed and he responded, “We just simply have no idea.” One week after the strike, Department of Defense (DoD) spokeswoman Victoria Clark, stated, “We don’t know yet exactly who it was.” It was later reported that the tall man was not Osama bin Laden. The tall man, Daraz Khan, was five feet and eleven inches tall, shorter than Osama bin Laden by six inches. The individuals killed were simply poor locals scavenging in the woods for scrap metal. Afghan villagers questioned the attack and explained that the three men knew nothing of Islamic politics. Since the killing of Daraz Khan, it is estimated that between 8,858 and 16,901 people have been killed by U.S. drone strikes as of May 2020 in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen alone.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_contract_law/publications/public_contract_law_jrnl/49-4/casualties-drone/

The inadequacies of this technology were apparent from the beginning ("This was the first time that a Predator drone was used in a targeted killing; however, there were doubts about whether the man targeted was in fact Osama bin Laden." ) and evidently those inadequacies haven't improved any since. A compassionate, concerned militia would make adjustments, perhaps not use such inaccurate, senseless tools of death, but evidently "profound condolences" to the survivors is sufficient to assuage the General's black conscience.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 06:39 PM

31. War Crimes Tribunal?

A commercial airplane is shot down by BUK missile while flying high over Ukraine.
The operators mistook it for a military transporter.

"Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down on 17 July 2014 while flying over eastern Ukraine. All 283 passengers and 15 crew were killed."

An 'Oops, sorry' moment? Not really, a major investigation followed. People identified, sentenced in absentia.

Same needs to happen with this one. 'Oops, sorry!' is not enough.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sat Sep 18, 2021, 08:58 PM

32. The limits of technology

As it turns out, the product with the system showing crystal clear images in the sales pitch doesn't always work that way in real life. AFAIK, the analysts viewing the video couldn't tell what exactly was being loaded into the car that was targeted. They opted to "err" on the side of caution and blow the vehicle up.

The US uses these drones, cruise missiles and other guided weapons so we don't have to put boots on the ground and take casualties. That's the main lesson we learned after VN.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sun Sep 19, 2021, 11:09 AM

34. Reminiscent of the 2007 Badhdag attack on a film crew and ournalists.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike


. . .

The July 12, 2007, Baghdad airstrike was a series of air-to-ground attacks conducted by a team of two U.S. AH-64 Apache helicopters in Al-Amin al-Thaniyah, New Baghdad during the Iraqi insurgency which followed the Iraq War. On April 5, 2010, the attacks received worldwide coverage and controversy following the release of 39 minutes of gunsight footage by the Internet whistleblower website WikiLeaks. The footage was portrayed as classified,[7] but the individual who leaked it, U.S. Army soldier Chelsea Manning, testified in 2013 that the video was not classified.[8] The video, which WikiLeaks titled Collateral Murder, showed the crew firing on a group of men and killing several of them, then laughing at some of the casualties, all of whom were civilians, including two Reuters journalists.[15] An anonymous U.S. military official confirmed the authenticity of the footage,[16] which provoked global discussion on the legality and morality of the attacks.

. . .


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Response to John1956PA (Reply #34)

Mon Sep 20, 2021, 12:30 PM

39. Not quite the same

Those reporters had embedded themselves with a resistance group in Iraq... They' were carrying RPGs and AK-47s

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Sun Sep 19, 2021, 12:51 PM

35. I think there was very high pressure on the military to do something

after the airport bombing. This is what happens.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 20, 2021, 11:19 PM

42. Yep, they knew they had to blow something or someone up

The media was tearing the administration apart so they had to do something, no matter how thin the intelligence was.

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Response to Steelrolled (Reply #35)

Wed Sep 22, 2021, 04:27 PM

45. No.

That is a pretty thin defense of murder.

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Mon Sep 20, 2021, 12:21 PM

37. ...

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Response to El Supremo (Original post)

Thu Sep 23, 2021, 02:31 AM

46. Just like we took down an Iranian Civilian Commercial airliner....

...because we thought it was an F-14 Tomcat.

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