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Omaha Steve

(98,872 posts)
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 03:25 PM Jul 2021

Key Afghan City in Danger of Falling to the Taliban

Source: NY Times

Government reinforcements arrived Saturday in Lashkar Gar, the capital of Helmand Province, but people were fleeing their homes and a hospital in the city had been bombed.

By Thomas Gibbons-Neff and Taimoor Shah

KABUL, Afghanistan — An important city in Afghanistan’s south was in danger of falling to the Taliban on Saturday as their fighters pushed toward its center despite concerted American and Afghan airstrikes in recent days.

Reports from Lashkar Gah, capital of Helmand, a province where the Taliban already controlled much of the territory before their recent offensive, were dire: People were fleeing their homes, a hospital in the city had been bombed, and government reinforcements were only now arriving after days of delays.

“We are just waiting for the Taliban to arrive — there is no expectation that the government will be able to protect the city any more,” said Mohammadullah Barak, a resident.

What comes next in Lashkar Gah is anything but certain — the city has been on the brink of a Taliban takeover off and on for more than a decade. But if the insurgent group seizes the city this time it will be the first provincial capital to fall to the Taliban since 2016.



Lashkar Gah, the besieged capital of Helmand Province, in May this year.Credit...Jim Huylebroek for The New York Times

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/31/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-lashkar-gah.html

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Key Afghan City in Danger of Falling to the Taliban (Original Post) Omaha Steve Jul 2021 OP
Expected orangecrush Jul 2021 #1
negative influences samsingh Jul 2021 #8
Sadly, yes. orangecrush Jul 2021 #36
Damn! Damn it!! sprinkleeninow Jul 2021 #2
Remind me, please, why I should care. -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #3
Because hundreds of thousands of people will be oppressed by a medieval theocracy. maxsolomon Jul 2021 #5
Of course it's a tragedy. -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #11
you asked why you should care. i said. you whatabouted it. maxsolomon Jul 2021 #28
I don't think you understand what "whatabouting" is. -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #30
I think I do. "Insteadofing" is not a thing. maxsolomon Jul 2021 #39
It fairly obvious they are afraid to fight... Historic NY Jul 2021 #27
what of al queda? maxsolomon Jul 2021 #29
Not our problem Polybius Jul 2021 #37
Wow, DU. maxsolomon Jul 2021 #38
I care Polybius Jul 2021 #40
So, "not our problem" means some of it is our problem? maxsolomon Aug 2021 #41
We spent 20 years, christx30 Aug 2021 #44
No, it means not our problem at all Polybius Aug 2021 #45
because thousands of people will be beheaded, members of the LGBTQ community samsingh Jul 2021 #7
That stuff is going on all over the world all the time. -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #10
so has death by pandemic - i think we want to avert that as much as possible samsingh Jul 2021 #16
And when those things happen in our country we should address them -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #34
All of that occurred while we were there. Devil Child Jul 2021 #19
Actually things got better with the US and allies there. JI7 Jul 2021 #20
are you a Democrat? Skittles Jul 2021 #9
Is it required of Democrats to care about every single injustice in the world? -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #12
alrighty then Skittles Jul 2021 #13
Back atcha. -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #15
"There's little to nothing I can do about it." HUAJIAO Jul 2021 #18
Exactly JI7 Jul 2021 #22
No, I really can't care -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #35
It is a religious war. Religious wars can last for decades. spike jones Jul 2021 #21
It's Pakistan that is causing the religious problems JI7 Jul 2021 #23
I think it is still Muslim vs Muslim and the killing is mainly over religious differences. spike jones Jul 2021 #25
"Religion poisons everything." -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #31
632 posts who knows samsingh Jul 2021 #17
I put them on Ignore Skittles Jul 2021 #24
good samsingh Jul 2021 #26
Wow! That's pretty judgemental. -misanthroptimist Jul 2021 #33
This all bothers me. Igel Jul 2021 #4
and it begins-the falling to the Taliban headlines. riversedge Jul 2021 #6
Eventually the Iranians will get sucked in to Afghanistan. roamer65 Jul 2021 #14
Hmmm... maybe? maxsolomon Aug 2021 #42
... roamer65 Aug 2021 #43
We can't fight in Afghanistan forever. twin_ghost Jul 2021 #32

samsingh

(17,548 posts)
8. negative influences
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:26 PM
Jul 2021

the taliban will take over much of the country

Russia and China will split up influence in the rest of the country

maxsolomon

(32,918 posts)
5. Because hundreds of thousands of people will be oppressed by a medieval theocracy.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:08 PM
Jul 2021

And many will be killed by it if they had anything to do with the government or the US or aren't Pashtun, and there will be a massive refugee crisis.

None of us can stop the inevitable, but that doesn't mean it isn't a tragedy.

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
11. Of course it's a tragedy.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:36 PM
Jul 2021

There are many tragedies in the world. For instance, over 600k Americans have died in the past 18 months or so. The overwhelming majority of them could have been prevented. I even knew some of them. That type of tragedy clearly is our responsibility.

Afghanistan, not so much. (Never should have been there in the first place.)

maxsolomon

(32,918 posts)
28. you asked why you should care. i said. you whatabouted it.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:44 PM
Jul 2021

i care about both of those things: theocratic repression and a massive global death toll.

they're not mutually exclusive.

call me a hawk, but Al Queda's nest had to be removed. should we have stayed? moot now.

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
30. I don't think you understand what "whatabouting" is.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:59 PM
Jul 2021

I didn't ask you to care about what I care about or use what I care about to excuse what's happening in Afghanistan.

So, it's not whataboutism. It's insteadofing. And I stand by it.

maxsolomon

(32,918 posts)
29. what of al queda?
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:47 PM
Jul 2021

we should have left them unmolested at tora bora?

that wasn't a binary choice. there were costs to action and inaction. it was bush's choice, and so was iraq. he chose poorly. what could have been in afghanistan without invading iraq we'll never know. that broke the region apart.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
44. We spent 20 years,
Sun Aug 1, 2021, 05:19 PM
Aug 2021

thousands of lives, and trillions there. How much is enough?
We would never change the minds of the religious extremists in the Taliban. Nothing short of a complete cultural change would do it. We could accomplish that like we did in Japan. Firebombing their cities and tribal areas, and dropping two nukes. Wanna do that?

Polybius

(15,184 posts)
45. No, it means not our problem at all
Mon Aug 2, 2021, 12:29 AM
Aug 2021

With or without the US invasion, the Taliban would still be there. They suck, I hate them, but glad I don't live there.

samsingh

(17,548 posts)
7. because thousands of people will be beheaded, members of the LGBTQ community
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:25 PM
Jul 2021

will be stoned to death.

and the taliban will create an environment to attack other countries

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
10. That stuff is going on all over the world all the time.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:33 PM
Jul 2021

It was happening in Afghanistan before we arrived, too. It was happening while we were there. It will happen without us there.

It is not our duty to fix everything everywhere. Even if it was, we simply lack the ability. Bad things are going to happen elsewhere in the world. Our primary duty should be to make sure that they don't happen here.

samsingh

(17,548 posts)
16. so has death by pandemic - i think we want to avert that as much as possible
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:23 PM
Jul 2021

or hunger
shootings

all things happening all the time

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
34. And when those things happen in our country we should address them
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:17 PM
Jul 2021

When they happen 7500 miles away we should condemn them and leave them to the locals to solve unless there is an extremely good reason to get involved.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
19. All of that occurred while we were there.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:39 PM
Jul 2021

Deployment of troops from Western nations will not transform a culture which birthed the Taliban.

JI7

(89,151 posts)
20. Actually things got better with the US and allies there.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:13 PM
Jul 2021

The reason we have to leave is becsuse of the role of Pakistan which is preventing us from improving things which has mostly left us stuck there with threats to US.

But without Pakistan things could get better there .



-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
12. Is it required of Democrats to care about every single injustice in the world?
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:39 PM
Jul 2021

If so, we're going to lose a lot of people. That's too much work for most of us.

The Taliban suck. Putin sucks. Winnie-the-Pooh in China sucks. A lot of people in a whole lot of people suck. They do awful things to other people. There's little to nothing I can do about it. And in many of these places there's not a lot my country can do about it.

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
15. Back atcha.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:14 PM
Jul 2021

I'm reminded of the Simpsons' episode where Lisa yells to Smithers, "I found an injured shrew!" This after bringing him assorted injured wildlife.

There's no shortage of things to be upset, angry, sad, and even outraged about. Which particular ones bother us as individuals is...well, individual. Even being upset with someone who doesn't share your concerns is legitimate.

As is not giving a shit about what goes on in Afghanistan.

HUAJIAO

(2,362 posts)
18. "There's little to nothing I can do about it."
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:37 PM
Jul 2021

But you can still care about it.

However, I see you don't.

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
35. No, I really can't care
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:20 PM
Jul 2021

I don't have an infinite capacity for caring about things. No one does. So, things that happen thousands of miles away to people I don't know in a culture radically different from my own and with few if any ramifications for those closer at hand (who I *do* care about) seems to be a rational place to stop caring.

Honestly, I doubt that very many here do care in any meaningful way.

spike jones

(1,653 posts)
21. It is a religious war. Religious wars can last for decades.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:13 PM
Jul 2021

It is like the Christian Protestants and the Christian Catholics killing each other five-hundred years ago. There are no good guys in a religious war, just dead people. Religion poisons everything.

JI7

(89,151 posts)
23. It's Pakistan that is causing the religious problems
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:21 PM
Jul 2021

Pakistan is the reason we left. But US did make things better for people there while we could.

spike jones

(1,653 posts)
25. I think it is still Muslim vs Muslim and the killing is mainly over religious differences.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 07:20 PM
Jul 2021

Pakistan is over 90% Islam. The US did make it better but, no matter how long we stay, they are still going to fight after we leave.
Both countries have Islam as their official religion. No separation of church and state. A “sin” is also a crime. IMO that is the root of most all the problems in that region.

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
31. "Religion poisons everything."
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:02 PM
Jul 2021

I'm afraid that that is too often the case. It doesn't have to be that way. (And I'm in my fifth decade of atheism.) If religion was used by individuals as a way for them to understand the universe, there would be little problem. Unfortunately, that internal belief gets imposed on the external world where it has no real place, conflicts arise, and...religious wars, inquisitions, etc.

samsingh

(17,548 posts)
17. 632 posts who knows
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:24 PM
Jul 2021

seems like a cold answer from an ayn rand mindset
the same ayn rand who had to survive on welfare because she was incapable of actually doing anything for money

Skittles

(152,918 posts)
24. I put them on Ignore
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:45 PM
Jul 2021

I absolutely do not care to hear any further opinions from someone who doesn't care.

-misanthroptimist

(764 posts)
33. Wow! That's pretty judgemental.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:14 PM
Jul 2021

One foreign policy difference makes someone a Randroid in your world? That's some industrial grade purity testing, that is!

Igel

(35,173 posts)
4. This all bothers me.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 03:58 PM
Jul 2021
https://www.longwarjournal.org/mapping-taliban-control-in-afghanistan shows a chunk of territory still under government control, but that lump of gray that's near the center is mostly Hazara/Shi'a. Any reasonable strategy would concentrate on the ring road inside the country, outside of Hazara "space", and leave the "infidel" Shi'a for later. They have my vote for "most likely to try to stage an insurgency" this time around.

The Hazara suffered fairly stiff ethno-religious persecution under the Taliban in the past.

roamer65

(36,738 posts)
14. Eventually the Iranians will get sucked in to Afghanistan.
Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:50 PM
Jul 2021

The Taliban will piss them off and in they will go.

Just like the Vietnamese had to do with Pol Pot in Cambodia in 1979.

maxsolomon

(32,918 posts)
42. Hmmm... maybe?
Sun Aug 1, 2021, 04:10 PM
Aug 2021

Have you seen much sabre rattling out of Iran to that effect? I could see them intervening to prevent a genocide of Shiite minorities.

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