HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Key Afghan City in Danger...

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 03:25 PM

Key Afghan City in Danger of Falling to the Taliban

Source: NY Times

Government reinforcements arrived Saturday in Lashkar Gar, the capital of Helmand Province, but people were fleeing their homes and a hospital in the city had been bombed.

By Thomas Gibbons-Neff and Taimoor Shah

KABUL, Afghanistan — An important city in Afghanistan’s south was in danger of falling to the Taliban on Saturday as their fighters pushed toward its center despite concerted American and Afghan airstrikes in recent days.

Reports from Lashkar Gah, capital of Helmand, a province where the Taliban already controlled much of the territory before their recent offensive, were dire: People were fleeing their homes, a hospital in the city had been bombed, and government reinforcements were only now arriving after days of delays.

“We are just waiting for the Taliban to arrive — there is no expectation that the government will be able to protect the city any more,” said Mohammadullah Barak, a resident.

What comes next in Lashkar Gah is anything but certain — the city has been on the brink of a Taliban takeover off and on for more than a decade. But if the insurgent group seizes the city this time it will be the first provincial capital to fall to the Taliban since 2016.



Lashkar Gah, the besieged capital of Helmand Province, in May this year.Credit...Jim Huylebroek for The New York Times

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/31/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-lashkar-gah.html

45 replies, 1834 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply Key Afghan City in Danger of Falling to the Taliban (Original post)
Omaha Steve Jul 31 OP
orangecrush Jul 31 #1
samsingh Jul 31 #8
orangecrush Jul 31 #36
sprinkleeninow Jul 31 #2
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #3
maxsolomon Jul 31 #5
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #11
maxsolomon Jul 31 #28
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #30
maxsolomon Jul 31 #39
Historic NY Jul 31 #27
maxsolomon Jul 31 #29
Polybius Jul 31 #37
maxsolomon Jul 31 #38
Polybius Jul 31 #40
maxsolomon Aug 1 #41
christx30 Aug 1 #44
Polybius Aug 2 #45
samsingh Jul 31 #7
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #10
samsingh Jul 31 #16
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #34
Devil Child Jul 31 #19
JI7 Jul 31 #20
Skittles Jul 31 #9
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #12
Skittles Jul 31 #13
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #15
HUAJIAO Jul 31 #18
JI7 Jul 31 #22
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #35
spike jones Jul 31 #21
JI7 Jul 31 #23
spike jones Jul 31 #25
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #31
samsingh Jul 31 #17
Skittles Jul 31 #24
samsingh Jul 31 #26
-misanthroptimist Jul 31 #33
Igel Jul 31 #4
riversedge Jul 31 #6
roamer65 Jul 31 #14
maxsolomon Aug 1 #42
roamer65 Aug 1 #43
twin_ghost Jul 31 #32

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 03:41 PM

1. Expected



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to orangecrush (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:26 PM

8. negative influences

the taliban will take over much of the country

Russia and China will split up influence in the rest of the country

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:21 PM

36. Sadly, yes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 03:47 PM

2. Damn! Damn it!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 03:48 PM

3. Remind me, please, why I should care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:08 PM

5. Because hundreds of thousands of people will be oppressed by a medieval theocracy.

And many will be killed by it if they had anything to do with the government or the US or aren't Pashtun, and there will be a massive refugee crisis.

None of us can stop the inevitable, but that doesn't mean it isn't a tragedy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:36 PM

11. Of course it's a tragedy.

There are many tragedies in the world. For instance, over 600k Americans have died in the past 18 months or so. The overwhelming majority of them could have been prevented. I even knew some of them. That type of tragedy clearly is our responsibility.

Afghanistan, not so much. (Never should have been there in the first place.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:44 PM

28. you asked why you should care. i said. you whatabouted it.

i care about both of those things: theocratic repression and a massive global death toll.

they're not mutually exclusive.

call me a hawk, but Al Queda's nest had to be removed. should we have stayed? moot now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #28)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:59 PM

30. I don't think you understand what "whatabouting" is.

I didn't ask you to care about what I care about or use what I care about to excuse what's happening in Afghanistan.

So, it's not whataboutism. It's insteadofing. And I stand by it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #30)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:18 PM

39. I think I do. "Insteadofing" is not a thing.

Again, YOU asked why you should care.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:30 PM

27. It fairly obvious they are afraid to fight...

we should have never gone there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Historic NY (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:47 PM

29. what of al queda?

we should have left them unmolested at tora bora?

that wasn't a binary choice. there were costs to action and inaction. it was bush's choice, and so was iraq. he chose poorly. what could have been in afghanistan without invading iraq we'll never know. that broke the region apart.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 10:50 PM

37. Not our problem

People are oppressed in North Korea as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Polybius (Reply #37)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:05 PM

38. Wow, DU.

Can't even bring yourself to care in and abstract way. Pretty fucked up thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #38)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 11:24 PM

40. I care

I just don't think we should do anything about it militarily.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Polybius (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 04:09 PM

41. So, "not our problem" means some of it is our problem?

because some of it is going to be:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/31/world/asia/afghanistan-migration-taliban.html

you break it; you buy it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #41)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 05:19 PM

44. We spent 20 years,

thousands of lives, and trillions there. How much is enough?
We would never change the minds of the religious extremists in the Taliban. Nothing short of a complete cultural change would do it. We could accomplish that like we did in Japan. Firebombing their cities and tribal areas, and dropping two nukes. Wanna do that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to maxsolomon (Reply #41)

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 12:29 AM

45. No, it means not our problem at all

With or without the US invasion, the Taliban would still be there. They suck, I hate them, but glad I don't live there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:25 PM

7. because thousands of people will be beheaded, members of the LGBTQ community

will be stoned to death.

and the taliban will create an environment to attack other countries

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:33 PM

10. That stuff is going on all over the world all the time.

It was happening in Afghanistan before we arrived, too. It was happening while we were there. It will happen without us there.

It is not our duty to fix everything everywhere. Even if it was, we simply lack the ability. Bad things are going to happen elsewhere in the world. Our primary duty should be to make sure that they don't happen here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:23 PM

16. so has death by pandemic - i think we want to avert that as much as possible

or hunger
shootings

all things happening all the time

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:17 PM

34. And when those things happen in our country we should address them

When they happen 7500 miles away we should condemn them and leave them to the locals to solve unless there is an extremely good reason to get involved.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:39 PM

19. All of that occurred while we were there.

Deployment of troops from Western nations will not transform a culture which birthed the Taliban.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Devil Child (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:13 PM

20. Actually things got better with the US and allies there.

The reason we have to leave is becsuse of the role of Pakistan which is preventing us from improving things which has mostly left us stuck there with threats to US.

But without Pakistan things could get better there .



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:32 PM

9. are you a Democrat?

just checking

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:39 PM

12. Is it required of Democrats to care about every single injustice in the world?

If so, we're going to lose a lot of people. That's too much work for most of us.

The Taliban suck. Putin sucks. Winnie-the-Pooh in China sucks. A lot of people in a whole lot of people suck. They do awful things to other people. There's little to nothing I can do about it. And in many of these places there's not a lot my country can do about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:41 PM

13. alrighty then

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:14 PM

15. Back atcha.

I'm reminded of the Simpsons' episode where Lisa yells to Smithers, "I found an injured shrew!" This after bringing him assorted injured wildlife.

There's no shortage of things to be upset, angry, sad, and even outraged about. Which particular ones bother us as individuals is...well, individual. Even being upset with someone who doesn't share your concerns is legitimate.

As is not giving a shit about what goes on in Afghanistan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:37 PM

18. "There's little to nothing I can do about it."

But you can still care about it.

However, I see you don't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:14 PM

22. Exactly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:20 PM

35. No, I really can't care

I don't have an infinite capacity for caring about things. No one does. So, things that happen thousands of miles away to people I don't know in a culture radically different from my own and with few if any ramifications for those closer at hand (who I *do* care about) seems to be a rational place to stop caring.

Honestly, I doubt that very many here do care in any meaningful way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to -misanthroptimist (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:13 PM

21. It is a religious war. Religious wars can last for decades.

It is like the Christian Protestants and the Christian Catholics killing each other five-hundred years ago. There are no good guys in a religious war, just dead people. Religion poisons everything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to spike jones (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:21 PM

23. It's Pakistan that is causing the religious problems

Pakistan is the reason we left. But US did make things better for people there while we could.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JI7 (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 07:20 PM

25. I think it is still Muslim vs Muslim and the killing is mainly over religious differences.

Pakistan is over 90% Islam. The US did make it better but, no matter how long we stay, they are still going to fight after we leave.
Both countries have Islam as their official religion. No separation of church and state. A “sin” is also a crime. IMO that is the root of most all the problems in that region.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to spike jones (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:02 PM

31. "Religion poisons everything."

I'm afraid that that is too often the case. It doesn't have to be that way. (And I'm in my fifth decade of atheism.) If religion was used by individuals as a way for them to understand the universe, there would be little problem. Unfortunately, that internal belief gets imposed on the external world where it has no real place, conflicts arise, and...religious wars, inquisitions, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 05:24 PM

17. 632 posts who knows

seems like a cold answer from an ayn rand mindset
the same ayn rand who had to survive on welfare because she was incapable of actually doing anything for money

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 06:45 PM

24. I put them on Ignore

I absolutely do not care to hear any further opinions from someone who doesn't care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 08:23 PM

26. good

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to samsingh (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:14 PM

33. Wow! That's pretty judgemental.

One foreign policy difference makes someone a Randroid in your world? That's some industrial grade purity testing, that is!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 03:58 PM

4. This all bothers me.

https://www.longwarjournal.org/mapping-taliban-control-in-afghanistan shows a chunk of territory still under government control, but that lump of gray that's near the center is mostly Hazara/Shi'a. Any reasonable strategy would concentrate on the ring road inside the country, outside of Hazara "space", and leave the "infidel" Shi'a for later. They have my vote for "most likely to try to stage an insurgency" this time around.

The Hazara suffered fairly stiff ethno-religious persecution under the Taliban in the past.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:18 PM

6. and it begins-the falling to the Taliban headlines.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 04:50 PM

14. Eventually the Iranians will get sucked in to Afghanistan.

The Taliban will piss them off and in they will go.

Just like the Vietnamese had to do with Pol Pot in Cambodia in 1979.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to roamer65 (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 1, 2021, 04:10 PM

42. Hmmm... maybe?

Have you seen much sabre rattling out of Iran to that effect? I could see them intervening to prevent a genocide of Shiite minorities.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Sat Jul 31, 2021, 09:09 PM

32. We can't fight in Afghanistan forever.

It is time to let Afghanistan lead it's own history.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread