'QAnon Shaman' in plea negotiations after mental health diagnosis -lawyer
Source: Reuters
In an interview, defense lawyer Albert Watkins said that officials at the federal Bureau of Prisons, or BOP, have diagnosed his client Jacob Chansley with transient schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression and anxiety.
The BOP's findings, which have not yet been made public, suggest Chansley's mental condition deteriorated due to the stress of being held in solitary confinement at a jail in Alexandria, Virginia, Watkins said.
"As he spent more time in solitary confinement ... the decline in his acuity was noticeable, even to an untrained eye," Watkins said in an interview on Thursday.
Read more: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-qanon-shaman-plea-negotiations-after-mental-health-diagnosis-lawyer-2021-07-23/
DURHAM D
(32,580 posts)Checking
Checking
Checking
Nope
Johnny2X2X
(18,634 posts)This guy is mentally ill and he was sent to solitary confinement, no one deserves that.
And he was part of a group that tried to overthrow our Democracy, but he wasn't assaulting people or destroying things that I saw, he was more a symbol, this guy needs help.
I hope one aspect of good that comes out of this is that some people like him see how cruel and inhumane our prison system is. Mentally ill people placed into solitary confinement is absolutely a crime, I don't care what he did.
Orrex
(63,057 posts)until he is cured.
dianaredwing
(406 posts)heeded the call of insurrection. should anyone be surprised?
Deminpenn
(15,240 posts)Solitary confinement is cruel and inhumane. No one should have to endure it for more than a day or two.
LogicFirst
(571 posts)How much of his "mental" state is just acting? We won't know until after the plea deal is struck.
COL Mustard
(5,750 posts)Lock that douchebag up for a long time. (Apologies to actual douchebags, which provide a service.)
SoCalDavidS
(9,998 posts)I await whatever "accountability" is forthcoming.
C_U_L8R
(44,872 posts)He knew exactly why he was there and what he was doing. And he acted on a plan. Sane enough to be held accountable.
Chainfire
(17,265 posts)But he should be put in a place where he can not do further damage to the rest of us. You just can't put violently unstable people back into the community and tell them to sin no more.
I wonder why he has been in solitary confinement? Does anyone know?
If depression was a legal excuse for committing crimes, none of your fortunes or women would be safe from me.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)IL Dem
(807 posts)Bipolar disorder (formerly called manic-depressive illness or manic depression) is a mental disorder that causes unusual shifts in mood, energy, activity levels, concentration, and the ability to carry out day-to-day tasks.
There are three types of bipolar disorder. All three types involve clear changes in mood, energy, and activity levels. These moods range from periods of extremely up, elated, irritable, or energized behavior (known as manic episodes) to very down, sad, indifferent, or hopeless periods (known as depressive episodes). Less severe manic periods are known as hypomanic episodes.
Bipolar I Disorder defined by manic episodes that last at least 7 days, or by manic symptoms that are so severe that the person needs immediate hospital care. Usually, depressive episodes occur as well, typically lasting at least 2 weeks. Episodes of depression with mixed features (having depressive symptoms and manic symptoms at the same time) are also possible.
Bipolar II Disorder defined by a pattern of depressive episodes and hypomanic episodes, but not the full-blown manic episodes that are typical of Bipolar I Disorder.
Cyclothymic Disorder (also called Cyclothymia) defined by periods of hypomanic symptoms as well as periods of depressive symptoms lasting for at least 2 years (1 year in children and adolescents). However, the symptoms do not meet the diagnostic requirements for a hypomanic episode and a depressive episode.
more at https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/bipolar-disorder/
I had a friend who was bipolar. Her manic episodes were exhausting for everyone around her and dangerous for her as well. Her depressive stages were frighteing.
iluvtennis
(19,716 posts)tblue37
(64,860 posts)Prof. Toru Tanaka
(1,901 posts)That outfit he wore on 1/6 would not have pleased Mr. Blackwell.
Another whiny tough-guy wannabe having difficulties adapting to prison life. All the more reason Chansley should have considered that storming the Capitol and committing crimes on federal property was a horribly bad idea back on Jan. 6th.
turbinetree
(24,606 posts)fuck that shit he knew exactly what he was doing...
Chainfire
(17,265 posts)Jail is not widely accepted as a place to raise one's spirits. That is one reason I have tried my best to avoid it.
csziggy
(34,115 posts)But he's in his early thirties - has he ever been treated for his mental illness? Was he diagnosed at any time before this? If he was, was he prescribed a course of treatment - did he follow it or did he refuse medication and/or counseling?
If he had been previously diagnosed and preferred to continue in his confused metal state rather than get help, he should only be allowed release under close supervision.
jmowreader
(50,419 posts)Lets be real. Before 1/6 he was able to do all the things he likes, like eating organic food, dressing up as a Viking and wearing makeup that looks even worse than Trumps. Now hes in the hoosegow and cant do any of those things.
But Im a kind and generous person. Id be perfectly willing to move him to a mental hospital for treatment until hes considered able to stand trial.
The Roux Comes First
(1,271 posts)At least if our anonymity were preserved and self-esteem unthreatened!
But as I see it, a primary problem here is that the Party of Yam (and plenty of others), in their zeal for tax breaks has been so assiduously lopping off funding for mental health care of almost any sort that this King Cnut-wannabe probably has no hope of getting the care and sequestration that he so obviously needs. As Jackson Browne has sung, "the road is full of homeless souls," and more than a few likely fall squarely in this category of diagnosable but with no access to proper care.
ripcord
(5,037 posts)Even if there is clear proof of guilt he was still incompetent when he committed the crime.
Traildogbob
(8,476 posts)For all forthcoming indictments. Cant be prosecuted. Why was Manson in prison until dead? He only had a boo boo on the brain.
salin
(48,954 posts)One of the podcast guys uploaded these videos after the insurrection. I couldn't find the earlier time they refered to these videos (for the time stamp info. of when it was) which included at least two of the videos. They are from Julien Feld's twitter feed - so I don't know if you can view them without twitter (sorry I tried the normal cut and paste but it only copied his twitter name?!).
Link to tweet
?s=20
(thread of 4 tweets, but have to click on this one to get to the thread)
DemocraticPatriot
(4,144 posts)Yes, he is bonkers.
tblue37
(64,860 posts)BumRushDaShow
(126,623 posts)supposedly being a "pedophile symbol" and asking (yelling) why was it outside of a bathroom in Arizona. I tried to do a search on what he kept calling it - a "spiral triangle" and he may be referencing the unisex-type bathroom signs (e.g., like that California and probably other places use) -
Then the rest of the ranting and yelling was basically his demanding that people "research Q-Anon".
One wonders where the security guards were. If that had been a POC yelling in a mall like that, his ass would have been toast and he'd be face down in the linoleum.
tblue37
(64,860 posts)BumRushDaShow
(126,623 posts)chowder66
(8,999 posts)the street (a little over 500 feet per Citizen) where I live in Hollywood. There are a couple of guys and a woman who do this at all hours of the night through the neighborhoods.
It sounds exactly the same. A strange gravel-y shouting and it goes on for ever. Sometimes you can make out sentences - when they pass directly by your window.
This alone has me agreeing with the experts that he's mentally ill. As they say it's transient so he may be somewhat lucid/functional at times.
kairos12
(12,794 posts)NCjack
(10,279 posts)gets 30 years in a federal prison. They have mental illness treatment facilities for people like him.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Who believes that a cabal of blood-sucking sex predators runs the world from secret tunnels and that a former real estate con man from New York City was going to save us from them is...mentally ill?
Wow. Glad the psychiatrists are on top of that.
Aristus
(65,985 posts)That, and every in every picture of him, he looks like he's braying like a donkey. Keep him behind bars for being a seditious asshole, but allow him weekly mental health care meetings.
Walleye
(30,573 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Not surprised that someone displaying possible schizophrenia symptoms was drawn into the whole Qanon weirdness.
underpants
(182,064 posts)Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity
I know of this from working with social workers who had NGRI clients. You are forever under court restrictions. They could be super tight in terms of being able to leave a state or even a county. Your behavior can get you right back in court. You have to disclose it on all job and housing applications. You continually have a case manager to whom you report. Its never over either.
dalton99a
(80,907 posts)Corgigal
(9,291 posts)Transient schizophrenia? My brother had schizophrenia, its a 24 hour , 365 days a year mental illness.
I know defense attorneys are throwing it all at a wall, but I dont think this is thing.
llashram
(6,263 posts)Warpy
(110,746 posts)I'd like to point out there is a consistent decline in faculties among everyone held in solitary confinement, which is why it's cruel and unusual punishment. If you're not crazy when you go in, you will be when you get out.
I already got the guy's bipolar disease. I'll take their word for the depression and anxiety, those are parts of the package. "Transient schizophrenia" is something they have to expect with someone kept in solitary. Without stimulation, the brain manufactures its own environment.
If this guy agrees to get stabilized on medication, he's going to realize what an arse he's made of himself. I don't envy him that.
Shoeless Louis
(73 posts)Personally,I am not impressed with the mans behavior but you covered the salient points.
Mental health issues have always carried the stigma that the sufferer is somehow responsible for their condition. While in some cases they may be responsible for some of the condition, in never helps to make it harder on them.
That being said, I would make damn sure he was safe before returning him to society.
Thanks Warpy!
getagrip_already
(14,082 posts)His lawyers are using whatever leverage they can wield. But in the end, nothing in that diatribe of conditions means he isn't fit to stand trial.
But in reality, the feds are eager to cut deals to clear the dockets. They are just deals the accused won't like - though will be less time ultimately than being convicted on the most serious charges.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)as long as he is confined in a Mental Institution!
Paladin
(28,173 posts)...won't prevent this asshole from obtaining a big-money book deal and speaking tour, once he's out of jail. Maybe his own line of organic foods. Or a fashion collection, stolen from Native Americans. Fox "News" might give him a show, because God knows, mental illness has never been a negative factor in that shop.
Face it: "Shaman" Jacob Chansley stepped in some lucky shit on January 6.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)cstanleytech
(26,027 posts)is probably well enough to face the consequences.
Response to cstanleytech (Reply #32)
ExTex This message was self-deleted by its author.
bucolic_frolic
(42,478 posts)Who would have guessed? The psychologists are being played. Get some outside evaluations by experts.
ZonkerHarris
(24,123 posts)think he should be placed in a mental health facility to care for him.
He should not be released to endanger the public again.
Vinca
(50,150 posts)IcyPeas
(21,682 posts)those videos in the mall where he is screaming nonsense are dated Feb. 11. So yeah, he is "acting" nuts while filming himself to prove how crazy he is.
If I am wrong and he really does have a mental illness I am sorry, I'm just a skeptical that any of the insurrectionists were mentally ill.
NJCher
(35,342 posts)they (meaning QAnon and insurrectionists) are very lonely and the loneliness affected/s their mental health. This column by Michelle Goldberg of the NY Times tells about how the loneliness and Covid played into the insurrection.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/19/opinion/trump-covid-extremism-loneliness.html
Michelle has written several other pieces on why they idolize trump and the appeal of QAnon. They are linked at the bottom of her piece.
I hesitate to post this because one of the sources for her opinion piece is the American Enterprise Insitute, (A.E.I.) a source I never used to let students doing research papers use. I consider it a r-w propaganda house. However, you view it, the very least we can say about this source is that it's interesting that the traditional rw has been studying the psychology of their base for years now. (Lynne Cheney sits on their board.)
Also I hesitate to quote it because of the paywall. However, here are four paragraphs that some of you may find very interesting.
Also, not all her sources are AEI. She quotes others.
snip
Polling data from A.E.I.s Survey Center on American Life found that 17 percent of Americans said they had not a single person in their core social network. These socially disconnected voters were far more likely to view Trump positively and support his re-election than those with more robust personal networks, wrote Cox.
Its not just Trumpism that feeds on isolation. Consider QAnon, which has morphed from an internet message board hoax into a quasi-religion. In his book The Storm Is Upon Us: How QAnon Became a Movement, Cult, and Conspiracy Theory of Everything, the journalist Mike Rothschild shows how central a sense of digital community is to QAnons appeal. Its one of the reasons why baby boomers have fallen in with Q to such a surprising degree many are empty nesters, on their own, or retired, he writes.
Its also likely a reason that QAnon started expanding in tandem with Covid lockdowns, finding new life among Instagram influencers, yoga practitioners and suburban moms. Suddenly people all over America had their social lives obliterated, and many mothers found themselves trapped in domestic isolation beyond anything imagined by Betty Friedan. Stuck at home, they had more time to get sucked into internet rabbit holes. QAnon, which came to merge with Covid-trutherism, gave them an explanation for their misery and villains to blame.
A cruel paradox of Covid is that the social distancing required to control it nurtured pathologies that are now prolonging it. Isolated, atomized people turned to movements that turned them against vaccines. Here, too, Arendt was prescient. She described people shaken loose from any definite place in the world as being at once deeply selfish and indifferent to their own well-being: Self-centeredness, therefore, went hand in hand with a decisive weakening of the instinct for self-preservation.
snip
A conundrum for me about the TFG voters and QAnon is where the hell did all these people come from? This column explains to me that they were not all nuts to start with (a little shaky, most likely). There is a convergence of events and psyche that comes together here.
stillcool
(32,626 posts)the depression and anxiety are part of the bipolar, but 'transient schizophrenia' is a new one for me. I would love to know how many inmates have mental disorders, and how likely their mental state is to deteriorate once locked up.
marble falls
(56,029 posts)... common enough. I believe in the shaman's case, it disappears in his cell and manifests itself in front of a shrink, judge or jury.
stillcool
(32,626 posts)I know it well.
Scalded Nun
(1,227 posts)If his sickness has led to an actual attempt to overthrow the lawful government, then he needs to be put away for the protection of the public. Fuck these people. They never want consequences for their fucked-up activities and actions.
ck4829
(34,905 posts)time ago.
The whole "Q sent me" is a testament to his mental health long before the insurrection.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Kid Berwyn
(14,522 posts)Oh, yeah. Tough shit. Fuck him!
Fritz Walter
(4,278 posts)marble falls
(56,029 posts)... any fun, either.
barbtries
(28,689 posts)sigh.
the hashtag i tried so hard to get trending during the previous regime was "multiple pathologies."
i'd guess that all trumpsters, militia types, end times believers, etc, could be diagnosed with some kind of mental illness. especially since they take their cues from a severely damaged person.
see my post 68, above.
clementine613
(561 posts)Life in prison in exchange for the government not seeking the death penalty.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)ripcord
(5,037 posts)He will stay in a mental institution until he is cured and a psychiatrist says he isn't a danger to himself or others then he will be released much like John Hinckley. The process for dealing with mental health is the same regardless of the crime, we liberals fought for that btw.
peppertree
(21,460 posts)But when a drugged-out vandal claims it, it's all peachy - if they happen to sympathize with him.
LittleGirl
(8,247 posts)Seemed sane then.
NJCher
(35,342 posts)there's a reason these people followed trump all over the country. They are very lonely and before you laugh at that as a reason, please read up on it a little. I wrote about this upthread.
The thing about loneliness is that it's very difficult to solve that problem quickly, however, QAnon did solve that problem. They solved it artificially and quickly by sucking their followers into thinking they were doing something good. It gave them a cause, a reason to live.
Scottie Mom
(5,812 posts)Sooooooooooo...tough on Jan 6th...and now, such a Trumpy-baby.
LudwigPastorius
(8,899 posts)Is that the kind that of disorder that only appears when you're looking for a lenient sentence?
Javaman
(62,394 posts)and have him under weekly checkups for the rest of his miserable life.
and label him a threat to the community depriving him of any guns or weapons.
his life will be living hell from that point forward.
he wants to go this route, then so be it to the fullest penalty.
fuck him.
Hekate
(89,977 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 23, 2021, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Once upon a time, in cultures very different from the one we find ourselves in today, there was a place for people who talked with the spirits, and they trained up the few like themselves and taught their apprentices how to channel the wild energies. Other people came to them for what they knew or could discover about the future or the will of the spirits.
There is one school of thought which I find intriguing that today many of these very-long-ago people would be diagnosed much as the Shaman has been.
*******
Times changed. The spirits became demons from Hell, and people like the Shaman got burned at the stake.
Times changed again. People like the Shaman were locked away for the good of society and their own safety.
Times changed again. Scientists discovered they could close the channels to the wild spirits with medication.
Times changed. Governor Ronald Reagan closed the mental institutions as no longer needed, thanks to the new medications. (The ACLU helped, by the way. Free will, and all that.) People were cast out to freely decide whether they would take their medications (if they could access them) or sleep under a bridge, and their families were left to try to care for them.
*********
I suspect he will be released to the custody of the same mother who has been trying to take care of him all along. If he takes his medications, he will calm down and his mothers life will be easier. On the other hand, if he does take all his meds, his life will assuredly be lonely without the wild spirits and will lack purpose.
peppertree
(21,460 posts)He strikes me as the type who might - but we'll see.
Response to Hekate (Reply #65)
ExTex This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hekate
(89,977 posts)SMH
Sucha NastyWoman
(2,721 posts)I always thought this guy had a sort of naievity that indicated some mental health issues. He doesnt seethe with hatred the way most of them do. I believe, in a childlike manner, he just saw the whole thing as an adventure, a happening. He used to do something similar at shopping mall food courts.
NJCher
(35,342 posts)he's different than the others.
Paladin
(28,173 posts)No one individual has become more emblematic of the January 6 coup attempt. He and his horns and his tattoos weren't howling at the Capitol ceilings that day because of some quirky-but-lovable personality traits. He is entitled to exactly zero slack at this point.
This tendency of Democrats to love our enemies to death is why we keep getting our asses handed to us.
Sucha NastyWoman
(2,721 posts)Hekate
(89,977 posts)
among those assholes. I mean who the everloving holy fck gouges a mane eyes out with his thumbs? Guys like that should be shown no leniency whatsoever.
LiberalFighter
(50,343 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,343 posts)NJCher
(35,342 posts)short answer: yes
orangecrush
(19,151 posts)And shouldn't let them make us hateful enough to wallow in the sewer with them.
The Mouth
(3,118 posts)hell, I think they should be rotting away in gibbets
But it doesn't take a genius to see this guy is suffering from something other than Fox "News" exposure.
TNNurse
(6,905 posts)He should not be out in public. He requires intensive involuntary security.
Maybe forever.
Grins
(7,111 posts)fer Christs sake!
Woodwizard
(824 posts)Can use that defense.
Cinnamonspice
(163 posts)Get this guy the mental help he needs and help him get a job when he gets out of wherever he's going. One of the issues is that he was unemployed for a year. That couldn't have helped his mentally.
monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)StarryNite
(9,302 posts)They're nice people, they didn't really mean it.