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Mon May 17, 2021, 12:27 AM

Unvaccinated People Are Most at Risk by Unmasking, C.D.C. Director Says

Source: The New York Times

The head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, facing blowback over the agency's new liberalized mask guidelines, offered a stark reassurance on Sunday: Only unvaccinated people are at risk if they take off their masks. "If you are vaccinated, we are saying you are safe, you can take up your mask and you are not at risk of severe disease or hospitalization from Covid-19," the C.D.C. director, Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, said on "Fox News Sunday."

"If you are not vaccinated, you are not safe. Please go get vaccinated or continue to wear your mask."

Dr. Walensky's appearance on Fox was part of a round of appearances on Sunday talk shows that came in the wake of the fresh guidelines and the confusion that has accompanied them. The guidance the C.D.C. issued on Thursday said that it was no longer necessary for fully vaccinated people to mask or maintain social distance in many settings. The change set off public confusion and drew objections from some local officials and labor unions, including the country's largest union of registered nurses.

A number of major U.S. retailers have already lifted mask requirements, essentially turning to an honor system that relies on unvaccinated people to keep their masks on in public. In her interviews on the Sunday news shows, Dr. Walensky revealed a subtle but marked shift in her agency's emphasis from community to individual protection. She acknowledged on Fox that "for 16 months, we've been telling people to be cautious, be careful, cases are going up," and made clear that the C.D.C.'s new bottom line is that individuals could make their own choices.

She also noted that communities where cases are high should consider keeping mask requirements, and that children who are not vaccinated -- including everyone under 12 because they are not yet eligible for the shot -- and people with compromised immune systems should keep their faces covered. "This was not permission to shed masks for everybody everywhere," Dr. Walensky said on the NBC program "Meet the Press," but about "individual assessment of your risk."...


Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/unvaccinated-people-are-most-at-risk-by-unmasking-cdc-director-says/ar-BB1gNxyH





- CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky answers Dana Bash's questions on new mask policy; how kids factor into new guidance. CNN 'State of the Union,' Sunday, May 16, 2021. More, https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016293379

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Reply Unvaccinated People Are Most at Risk by Unmasking, C.D.C. Director Says (Original post)
appalachiablue May 17 OP
TreasonousBastard May 17 #1
Skittles May 17 #7
sheshe2 May 17 #2
maxsolomon May 17 #36
Ford_Prefect May 17 #3
Karma13612 May 17 #16
moriah May 17 #19
EarlG May 17 #4
Skittles May 17 #8
Withywindle May 17 #9
Maraya1969 May 17 #12
GB_RN May 17 #18
Karma13612 May 17 #24
GB_RN May 17 #31
OhioChick May 17 #37
Grasswire2 May 17 #22
Karma13612 May 17 #23
Skittles May 17 #30
Karma13612 May 17 #33
Skittles May 17 #34
Maraya1969 May 17 #11
EarlG May 17 #15
HariSeldon May 17 #21
Grokenstein May 17 #5
EarlG May 17 #6
Grokenstein May 17 #10
Karma13612 May 17 #17
FBaggins May 17 #13
SmartVoter22 May 17 #14
Karma13612 May 17 #25
IronLionZion May 17 #20
marie999 May 17 #26
cynical_idealist May 17 #27
The Mouth May 17 #28
alphafemale May 17 #29
thesquanderer May 17 #32
Politicub May 17 #35

Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 12:32 AM

1. Well, DUH. This whole mess is putting far too much responsibility on a public which has...

far too many irresponsible members.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #1)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:38 AM

7. you got that right

it is disturbing many people think this is solely about unmasking and nothing to do with actually containing a pandemic

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 12:35 AM

2. Sorry Doc.

That ship has sailed.

A number of major U.S. retailers have already lifted mask requirements, essentially turning to an honor system that relies on unvaccinated people to keep their masks on in public.


Honor system? You kid, correct?



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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #2)

Mon May 17, 2021, 07:45 PM

36. I know Trader Joe's in on that list.

But Saturday, full masks were still required. There just wasn't an employee regulating the number of shoppers in the store.

It might be that they just aren't going to call the cops about it, or have employees enforce the rules. IDK.

I don't know if it's a city or state mandate to keep masking in essential businesses like groceries.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 12:58 AM

3. I don't know if this is just cluelessness or something more inept but it doesn't help now.

Public policy statements need more thoughtful consideration and presentation than merely spitting out facts. My non-vax, anti-mask neighbors aren't going to be persuaded this way no matter how true this statement actually is.

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Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #3)

Mon May 17, 2021, 08:58 AM

16. Then they risk getting sick

And possibly getting very sick
And possibly being hospitalized
And possibly facing death

You, as a vaccinated person are safe to remove your mask. If you choose to remain masked, you are not hurting anyone. Feel free to continue. But, if you go without a mask, you are also NOT risking hurting anyone. The science points to that.

I am removing my mask as soon as Cuomo gives the go ahead.

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #16)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:31 AM

19. Eh -- the risk is reduced, and I'm not certain if we've seen a cluster...

.... where transmission was proven or even possible between people vaccinated with the more effective mRNA vaccines vs the J&J or other adenovirus-based shots....

But no vaccine is 100% effective. If a person does get sick with these shots, they are far less likely to get extremely ill (an indication of a huge viral load).... but it's still possible that transmission could occur under those rare conditions. All I'd say until we do get more data is that a person IS majorly reducing their risk of harming anyone by being vaccinated. Probably far more effectively than wearing a cloth mask.

I'd also say it's probably a good idea for anyone who is vaccinated who gets what feels like a "crud" to wear a mask while out. If nothing else, they're reducing droplets that spread ordinary cruds/flus.

Just my personal opinion, cuz while I do believe the science on the effectiveness of these vaccines, we are still working with limited data and it takes time to build a dataset. I won't say it's impossible for a vaccinated person who actually does get infected with the virus to get a live viral load high enough to transmit to someone, though I'd think that'd be far more likely in household exposure than in, say, a grocery store.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:24 AM

4. Not sure I get the backlash to this

Seems like they're just being honest about where we are. They're saying society can open back up because the availability of the vaccine gives everyone a choice. The choice is: You get the vaccine, don't get sick or die, and go about your business pretty much as usual if you want to, because its protection is really that effective. Or, you don't get the vaccine, and put your life in danger IF you also choose not to take other precautions such as masking and distancing. Your choice.

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Response to EarlG (Reply #4)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:39 AM

8. there are other people involved besides maskholes

you know, like the people who actually have to take care of them when they get sick

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Response to Skittles (Reply #8)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:51 AM

9. Yes, and the people who work in the businesses they go to

who have no choice about who to interact with, and get maskholes shouting in their faces all the time.

And the people who get sick and injured from OTHER CAUSES who might get shut out of a hospital bed if there are too many sick maskholes taking up all the space.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #8)

Mon May 17, 2021, 04:54 AM

12. But all those people are vaccinated. Unless they are idiots.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #12)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:11 AM

18. All Us People May Be Vaccinated

But we can still get sick. We donít get special time off for COVID, it comes out of our PTO (paid time off), just like any other sickness. We risk getting other family members sick, too (I for one, have a mother who is on immune modulation therapy for cancer, and canít afford to get COVID). If we get sick, whoís going to staff already short-staffed hospitals? So, from the perspective of people who work on the front lines, this is about the dumbest thing the CDC could have done.

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Response to GB_RN (Reply #18)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:53 PM

24. Thank you for your service.

I am guessing that in addition to being vaccinated, you also continue to wear a mask?

That means you are really well protected.

And you are unlikely to bring the virus home to any loved one.

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #24)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:42 PM

31. Thank You.

Yes, I still wear a mask. I have to wear a mask where I work, and would even if I didnít.

And please donít read my reply as sarcastic, as itís not intended that way, but I am aware of those facts. However, there is always the chance that I could get sick. I happen to live with my parents at the moment due to life circumstances, so getting COVID would be really, really bad.

What the CDC has done is put everyone on an honor system, and we know whoís not going to follow it. Thatís going to crest a situation of breakthrough cases. They may not be as bad, or as big as in the past, but it still allows the virus to spread - and mutate - which is worse. They should know all this and be more cautious than this. Thatís what concerns us on the frontlines the most.

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Response to GB_RN (Reply #18)

Mon May 17, 2021, 08:03 PM

37. My kids and I agree with you...

They've gotten sick due to caring for Covid patients and brought it home. Two of us are still sick now, have been for months.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #12)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:05 PM

22. what about children? what about the exposure to children?

Gee.

All these maskholes will be running around with impunity, exposing children (unless it's just children who should mask up now).

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Response to Skittles (Reply #8)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:50 PM

23. And those people

Who are taking care of the maskholes are most likely vaccinated. And if working in hospitals, still masked.

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #23)

Mon May 17, 2021, 04:19 PM

30. do you understand how physically and mentally draining it is

taking care of Covid patients?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #30)

Mon May 17, 2021, 06:00 PM

33. Yes I do.

I am friends with some nurses.

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #33)

Mon May 17, 2021, 06:13 PM

34. well then factor them into the equation

over and out

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Response to EarlG (Reply #4)

Mon May 17, 2021, 04:53 AM

11. I agree with you. At this point it is the ones who refuse to get vaccinated who are

vulnerable and I don't think I should have to wear a mask just to protect these one who also spread the disease with abandon all throughout the last year. I have relied on the CDC's guidelines since the beginning and I am now relying on them.

For some reason all the people who followed their guidelines for the last year are now saying they are wrong.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #11)

Mon May 17, 2021, 08:47 AM

15. Not only that but

if youíre vaccinated, itís not a question of having to wear a mask to protect the maskholes ó youíve already done your part by getting vaccinated. They are now safe from you, just as much as you are safe from them.

Iíve said all along that people should continue to wear a mask for as long as they feel comfortable. Iím not sure Iím comfortable taking mine off yet. But all the data right now shows that the vaccines are working. Seems like this should be something to cheer.

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Response to EarlG (Reply #4)

Mon May 17, 2021, 11:23 AM

21. They are the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

...not the "Personal Health Authority" or some such. Control and prevention of diseases is -- quite literally -- in their very name. If they make a statement which makes control of a public health threat more difficult, they have betrayed their raison d'etre.

I think it would have been far better had they released a kind of "sliding scale" for communities based on percent of population vaccinated, in addition to individual "freedoms" for those who are fully vaccinated (like going unmasked in any home). E.g. at 50% of the county population vaccinated, lifting mask mandates at retail establishments for vaccinated folks (on honor); at 75% allowing concerts and large group gatherings. Doling these "carrots" out is an integral part of dealing with defiant and obstructive behavior, and what the CDC has done really does harm to that end.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:30 AM

5. So...how quickly do I become invulnerable?

The instant the second needle is drawn from my arm, or does it take a couple of seconds? /sarcasm

Every sane person, ever: "Always err on the side of caution."
CDC: "We're cutting social distancing to three feet and vaccinated people can lick toilet seats on days determined by a roll of this seven-sided die, as long as they wear a mask in groups of more--or fewer--than three, but double-mask when Mars is in retrograde."

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Response to Grokenstein (Reply #5)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:38 AM

6. Seriously?

Are we saying the vaccines donít work now?

What is unclear about the what the CDC is saying?

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Response to EarlG (Reply #6)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:57 AM

10. "We" are mocking the rush to toss protocol, not the vaccine.

Last edited Mon May 17, 2021, 04:59 AM - Edit history (1)

There's nothing unclear about what the CDC is saying at the moment.
What is unclear is why it changes so dramatically, so frequently, when doctors and nurses are saying "whoa there." The CDC is in an even bigger hurry to "open up" than Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis.

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Response to Grokenstein (Reply #10)

Mon May 17, 2021, 09:06 AM

17. They are doing studies, they are

Watching trends and data.

It all takes time. They are not boring us with the study details in all cases.

I have faith in the CDC. With Biden as President, I am not worried about political pressure. They are telling it like it is.

And what they are saying is that it is safe for fully vaccinated people who have waited the full requisite time following the last dose, to remove masks. I was told at my second dose that I needed to wait 2 weeks and then I was fully protected. And we can feel safe in close proximity to other people who are maskless and who are potentially not vaccinated. And we are not endangering others because we are not at risk of spreading the virus either.

Pretty clear to me. I am not concerned that they Ďsuddenlyí came out with this announcement. They might have wanted to make it sooner, but were waiting for last minute data to confirm their results and conclusions.


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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:39 AM

13. Sun will set in the West CDC director says

Tell us something we donít know?

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 07:13 AM

14. Govt vs Business Liability Confrontation

We have a pandemic. And a major one too.
No nation was prepared for it, and we got the minimal initiations of public health protocols.
What this meant was that the disease, in this case CoVid-19, had the time to spread quickly and effectively.
It spread in every country, unabated for nearly two months.
The general public wanted some clear guidance, but some nations, especially the developed ones like the United States, had leadership that did basically nothing. Trump put his own re-election ahead of public health, and when he lost, he intentionally decided to retaliate against the Biden voters by doing nothing, putting our insane solution options and allowed a conspiracy laden manifesto to put the nation in a dire situation. It cost hundreds of thousands of lives, and will continue to do so for many months to come.
Unmasking is a horrid choice, but that decision should have been expected. When business is threatened, at the level the US economy has, pressure on politicians gets extreme. We can blame business for the unmasking decision. This is obvious, as there is nothing that concerns children under 12 years of age. There are roughly 30 Million in this age group. This group also leads the nation in spreading diseases, whether it's a serious pandemic or the simple 'kinder crud' they carry home from schools, day cares and family supported child care.
The general world consensus says to not open anything until a national population is very close to 'herd immunity. 50% is not herd. 80% is herd. But nobody seems to have 'heard' that.
Business is too loud and powerful for that logic to be respected. So, we will see more and more governments open it's services, well below any means to reach herd immunity. Mutations are spreading unchecked and the public is fed a constant mantra that people need to work, kids need to be in schools and the government should stay out of, what the conservatives think is a 'simple personal choice'. A choice that will cost lives. Tens of thousands of lives, before schools should reopen, after everyone is fully vaccinated. Yes, a shutdown is expensive and a pandemic should be expensive. Very expensive when millions of lives are at stake.
The decisions, and it's not just the CDC, it's any entity that can influence a decision of such seriousness that will provide the easiest step into court. Liability is a huge concern and business is hoping that governments will 'exempt' them for any fault, even if that business is so blatantly careless in how it applies safety and health measures to operate safely while preventing the CoVid-19 spread within it's own business' doors. Many businesses are kowtowing to this dangerous idea and they are currently liable for infecting customers. Customers who can sue... will sue. They should sue... or make the simple decision to wear a mask, anywhere... get vaccinated... and demand governments and business take legal responsibilities while the re-opening plans are determined.
Wall Street sees this danger, but is fairly quiet about it. Some smarter businesses are embracing 'remote commerce' as the basis of future business interaction. Take out food will see a quality boost, where very specific instructions for preparing and re-heating a take out meal, will produce a higher quality product for the consumer. These businesses will succeed where others will, and should fail.
Once the re-opening's are a few weeks into unchecked mask less exposure we will see court cases flood the courts, schools re-close and governments try to explain why they chose to drop the simplest of safety measures. Wearing a mask in public.
I can see, private individuals being sued to negligence...you know the type. The Trumpie screamers claiming some Constitutional right to expose others to danger.
Does anyone think the US Constitution, or any nation, allows one person to put others in danger? We are talking grave danger.

I am fully vaccinated and will wear a mask in public until the actual herd immunity is reached. In America that is 265 Million fully vaccinated citizens. Let's not even consider the kids who rely on adults to protect them.

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Reply #14)

Mon May 17, 2021, 01:59 PM

25. Pretty sure I read somewhere that the experts

Say we wonít reach herd immunity unless more are vaccinated. You could be waiting for quite some time.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 10:28 AM

20. Dr. Walensky is putting a lot of faith in the American people here

I get what she's saying and why, but I don't trust people to be honest. Anti-vaxxers will just lie because they don't want to wear a mask. So there is always that risk.

So it's up to people to make the individual choice at this point. So I would still wear a mask indoors around people: gym, stores, metro/bus, etc.

The other issue is that many cities had outlawed masks pre-pandemic, including mine. Those were temporarily reversed during the pandemic, so city officials will have to decide if there will be a grace period before going back to outlawing masks.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 02:15 PM

26. From the CDC,

"Scientists are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes Covid-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms.". So you can still spread the virus if you get it and if you don't care about the adults who won't get the vaccine or wear a mask, what about children? I will continue to wear a mask until all children can get the vaccine, maybe even longer since some people will not have their children vaccinated and not have them wear masks. What is so hard about wearing a mask?

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 02:18 PM

27. One reason they are doing it now is to start ...

...start now while people are still accustomed to seeing hundreds a day die of the disease.
If they wait a month or 2, then the statistical blip from unmasking will seem much bigger.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 03:49 PM

28. Darwin will not be denied

IF they don't have a VERY good reason for being unvaccinated, the planet and the USA is better off without them. Too damned many people in the world, nothing wrong with letting fools off themselves, just raises the I.Q.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 04:14 PM

29. I find it hard to care for the health of the anti-mask anti-vax people anymore

They have made every step of this experience excruciating.

They have harassed store personnel.

They have intimidated and physically assaulted people.

Are you really telling me I am supposed to care if they intentionally lie and place themselves at risk?

Not happening.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 05:59 PM

32. Confusing! We've always been told most masks don't do much to stop you from getting it...

...rather they mostly stop people from SPREADING it.

Since vaccinated people don't seem to be spreading it, it is safe for them to go without masks.

Unvaccinated people should contine to wear masks, not so much to avoid getting it, but rather to avoid SPREADING it, especially if they are either asymptomatic OR are in the early days of an infection where their symptoms haven't yet shown themselves and so they may be freely mingling among the public.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon May 17, 2021, 06:23 PM

35. And funny enough, I don't give a fig about unvaccinated Americans. Not anymore.

Or, at least those people who have been offered a vaccine or are eligible and have chosen to forgo the jab.

I'm vaccinated, but won't be changing my mask-wearing and social-distancing behavior when shopping or when I'm in other crowded indoor spaces. I like my mask -- I made my own and am fond of them -- and it has been great not getting a cold.

When the new CDC masking guidance came out, my gut reaction was that it is too early to unmask. But the more I'm thought about it and reflected on the decision, it seems like it was the right move.

There's a large segment of the population who have decided they are not going to get the vaccine, and there is no convincing them otherwise. I can live with the fact that the unvaccinated are at an increased risk of hospitalization and/or death from a Covid infection. That's on them at this point.

I'm more worried about health care workers who have been put through hell and back for more than a year. I hope the infection rates continue to fall, though it wouldn't be surprised to see a bounce in new infections. The jury is still out about how much virus an infected, vaccinated person can shed.

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