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Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:36 PM

Grizzly bear kills guide just outside Yellowstone National Park

Source: CBS

A Montana backcountry guide has died after he was mauled by a large grizzly bear that was probably defending a nearby moose carcass just outside Yellowstone National Park, officials said Monday.

Charles "Carl" Mock, 40, who lived in the park gateway community of West Yellowstone, died Saturday, two days after he was attacked while fishing alone in a forested area along the Madison River several miles north of West Yellowstone, Gallatin County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Christine Koosman said.

The male bear, which weighed at least 420 pounds, was later shot and killed when it charged wildlife workers investigating the attack, officials said in a statement.

The moose carcass was found about 50 yards from the site of the attack, said Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks spokesperson Morgan Jacobsen.

Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grizzly-bear-attack-yellowstone-kills-backcountry-guide/



Because bear acts like a bear, he must die.

I hate my species....

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Reply Grizzly bear kills guide just outside Yellowstone National Park (Original post)
Coventina Apr 20 OP
PoliticAverse Apr 20 #1
Coventina Apr 20 #5
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 20 #7
Coventina Apr 20 #9
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 20 #13
Coventina Apr 20 #18
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 20 #20
Coventina Apr 20 #23
DenaliDemocrat Apr 22 #89
alphafemale Apr 20 #42
Coventina Apr 20 #44
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 20 #67
ToxMarz Apr 21 #81
Warpy Apr 20 #32
PoliticAverse Apr 20 #35
Coventina Apr 20 #37
alphafemale Apr 20 #43
Major Nikon Apr 21 #75
Warpy Apr 20 #54
Straw Man Apr 20 #63
alphafemale Apr 21 #76
COL Mustard Apr 21 #82
PoliticAverse Apr 21 #83
2naSalit Apr 20 #2
DEbluedude Apr 20 #46
2naSalit Apr 20 #50
DEbluedude Apr 20 #52
Dream Girl Apr 20 #3
Coventina Apr 20 #6
Dream Girl Apr 20 #12
Coventina Apr 20 #19
2naSalit Apr 20 #53
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 20 #4
Coventina Apr 20 #8
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 20 #10
Coventina Apr 20 #14
EX500rider Apr 20 #11
Coventina Apr 20 #15
EX500rider Apr 20 #33
Coventina Apr 20 #36
LanternWaste Apr 20 #64
PoliticAverse Apr 20 #16
Coventina Apr 20 #22
PoliticAverse Apr 20 #29
Coventina Apr 20 #31
Dream Girl Apr 20 #17
2naSalit Apr 20 #25
Polybius Apr 20 #39
Coventina Apr 20 #41
2naSalit Apr 20 #57
StClone Apr 20 #58
Coventina Apr 20 #59
StClone Apr 20 #61
Straw Man Apr 20 #65
Coventina Apr 20 #68
Straw Man Apr 20 #70
Coventina Apr 20 #71
Straw Man Apr 21 #74
Coventina Apr 21 #80
Straw Man Apr 21 #85
Coventina Apr 21 #86
Straw Man Apr 22 #87
shrike3 Apr 21 #84
2naSalit Apr 20 #21
Coventina Apr 20 #28
2naSalit Apr 20 #34
MontanaMama Apr 20 #40
2naSalit Apr 20 #47
MontanaMama Apr 20 #69
2naSalit Apr 21 #78
mahatmakanejeeves Apr 20 #24
shrike3 Apr 20 #48
2naSalit Apr 20 #26
appalachiablue Apr 20 #49
2naSalit Apr 20 #51
cinematicdiversions Apr 20 #27
sarisataka Apr 20 #30
Mysterian Apr 20 #38
Coventina Apr 20 #45
NewHendoLib Apr 20 #55
PoliticAverse Apr 20 #62
NewHendoLib Apr 20 #66
Wingus Dingus Apr 20 #56
byronius Apr 20 #60
amcgrath Apr 20 #72
Coventina Apr 20 #73
Ilsa Apr 21 #77
Paladin Apr 21 #79
Mysterian Apr 22 #88
Rollo Apr 23 #90

Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:41 PM

1. "Because bear acts like a bear, he must die." - most bears don't attack humans. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:49 PM

5. Did you read the article? He was protecting his food source. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:50 PM

7. And when it charged the wildlife agents,

it's fate was sealed.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:51 PM

9. Why? They were in HIS territory and (from his POV) threatening HIS food. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:53 PM

13. So they were supposed to just stand there and let the bear attack them also?

IMHO, this was a tragedy all around, but it was the correct decision.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #13)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:59 PM

18. A charge is generally a warning sign to get the hell away. Most animals attack as a last resort.

Obviously, neither you nor I was there, so neither of us can gauge how dangerous the encounter was.

But THEY came looking for HIM. They were the aggressors in the situation.

I'm always going to take the side of the animal. Always.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:02 PM

20. All good points.

but, as you said, neither of us were there, there may be more to this story than we've gotten so far.

Please have a good afternoon, which it is due to the murderer Chauvin, now convicted

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:05 PM

23. Thank goodness for that. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 22, 2021, 09:50 AM

89. Have you ever been charged by a grizzly?

I have. There is NO TIME to sort things out. Don’t talk like you know how you would react unless you have been there.

In my case, I TRIED to shoot the bear, but I was too slow. The bear veered at the last second. You don’t stand there and try to discern if it’s a real or false charge.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:24 PM

42. How about we transport the bear and the carcass to where you live and work?

Probably doable.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #42)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:26 PM

44. Please do. I'll wait. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 11:03 PM

67. Yeah, I thought they try not to kill if there is an "excuse" for the attack.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #67)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 10:19 AM

81. It's not clear from what's here, but sounds like they discovered the excuse for the attack

after they killed the attacking bear.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:20 PM

32. Chances are it would have been tranquilized and relocated

if it hadn't been the one bear in a million that charged a group of people. Even when they wake up hungry and grouchy in spring, they prefer to avoid us unless we're threatening their young or their first meal.

That's hy people outside the city here in NM need long guns, hunting rifles or shotguns, with 2 rounds. The first is a warning shot (which usually does the trick) and the second is for that one bear in a million who charges. We're too far south for grizzlies, but the local brown bears can do a number on humans who get in their way.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #32)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:23 PM

35. I don't know if you've ever seen the videos Timothy Treadwell made...

(before he was ultimately killed by a bear) but they amazingly demonstrate how most bears are perfectly willing to tolerate humans.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:31 PM

37. Food was involved in this case. That is what made the difference. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:25 PM

43. Until they eat you alive

Really slowly.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #43)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 05:15 AM

75. That was in Alaska

Bears in the lower 48 eat far less meat and tend to be far less aggressive towards humans

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 08:11 PM

54. If he was the daredevil who ended up as a grizzly's dinner

I vaguely remember his stuff.

Taming bears from tiny cubs has a long tradition in eastern Europe, with varying levels of success.

Unless we're presenting them with a meal they don't have to work too hard to eat, they'll avoid us.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 10:18 PM

63. Yes -- I've seen the whole documentary.

The bottom line is that Timothy Treadwell ended up getting eaten. So much for tolerance.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #63)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 06:57 AM

76. Amazing that people are still using Timothy Treadwell as an example

They are using him as an example of bears being nice when a bear ultimately laid down on him and slowly ate him alive.

Bears are wild and should be left alone not turned into pets like Timothy tried to do.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 11:58 AM

82. Is He The Guy Who Went Camping In Bear Territory?

In Alaska, with his girlfriend?

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:43 PM

2. He was right near...

the game warden's house which is near the campground. I know that area well. Though I am sorry for his demise, he should have known, as a local guide, that fishing alone in spring in bear area is not wise. A tragedy, no doubt for both the victim and the bear, they always get put down when they hurt a human. They should not have done that, I think, because it was protecting it's food not feeding on the human.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:40 PM

46. Was it near Bakers Hole?

I've fished that portion of the Madison and from what I recall there are plenty of high visibility signs warning of Grizzly Bear activity. It's a shame but it reminds you that even being an experienced guide, you can't let your guard down. Sad story. Definitely tragic.

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Response to DEbluedude (Reply #46)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:51 PM

50. Yes.

It's a popular fishing spot year round. And a good shroomin' place too. He seems to have become complacent, a lot of locals in bear country don't take precautions and even dismiss concerns of black bears being a danger. I have been guilty of it myself but then feel ashamed when I realize how stupid and hypocritical I was. And I have walked up on a griz before, made sure I had bear spray with me every time after that scare.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #50)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 08:03 PM

52. I was fishing there once with my dad and brother.

We were about 30 yards apart in the river when a huge moose stuck her head through the willows right in front of me. I froze and motioned to my brother and I slowly backtracked to the bank behind me when she dipped into the water. A few seconds later, a calf followed. Anticipating what was next I stayed motionless and watched as a huge bull trailed. I was anxious as shit and just stayed as still as I could. The three of them crossed the river within 15-20 yards of us. It was one of those moments that I recall with wonder. Picturesque. Beautiful. Knowing that nature rules. I've never forgotten that moment. BTW, this was nice to take a trip down memory lane for me today! Sorry about the circumstance though.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:43 PM

3. Bear kills a man fishing alone, then charges the wild life workers.

I’d say the bear must die. Yeah.

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:49 PM

6. Why? It was protecting its food. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:53 PM

12. You gotta be kidding. So motive must be taken into account? Maybe have a trial?

Was the wildlife worker supposed to allow the bear to attack him?

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:01 PM

19. Absolutely motive matters. A charge does not necessarily end in an attack

(it can though, and yeah, it was scary I'm sure).

But they were the aggressors, they came into his territory looking for him.

I will always take the side of the animal. Always.

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 08:11 PM

53. Actually, yes.

An investigation is always warranted, they don't just go shoot a bear without trying to find the cause of the altercation. Sows with cubs should not be kiled nor should a bear simply defending itself. The only defenses they have are those they use against we pesky humans who screw up everything and reduce their habitat to tiny strips of land.

I take it you aren't all that familiar with bears and how they are dealt with.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:47 PM

4. i'm sorry for the bear,

but when it charged the wildlife agents, then it's fate was sealed and I don't blame the wildlife agents in the least.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:50 PM

8. I'm always going to take the side of the animal. Always. We are in THEIR territory.

He was protecting his food.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:52 PM

10. I commend and respect you for your stand on this,

even if I disagree with it.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:54 PM

14. Thanks. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:52 PM

11. If it was near his house and a campground..

... sounds like the bear was in human territory.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #11)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:55 PM

15. A "campground" is not human territory. Nor are homes in "bear country". n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:21 PM

33. Places where humans live is their territory just like all animals

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #33)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:30 PM

36. As I posted elsewhere, smart humans know that if they are in bear territory, they are not top dog.

Smart campers know how to comport themselves in bear country to avoid unpleasant encounters.

Myself, my friends, and my family have camped in bear country for decades without ever bringing or needing lethal force to do so safely.

It's all about understanding the species you are going to be around and modifying your behavior appropriately. That's why we evolved the big brains, to reason our way wisely, not to get in physical altercations.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #36)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 10:20 PM

64. As a life-long camper and hiker I wholly agree...

I can do nothing but agree with your position. We're the rational species meaning we should accept that animals will act like animals and will as often as not, act on instinct alone. Because they're animals.

As rational humans, we have a responsibility to realize this.

As we further reduce the remaining natural lands, it then becomes wholly our responsibility to be aware of the immediate consequences of these ever-decreasing ecosystems, and respond to these consequences of this reduction in a rational manner.

As ethical humans, we have a responsibility to realize this as well.

James Brabazon wrote "Reverence for Life says that the only thing we are really sure of is that we live and want to go on living. This is something that we share with everything else that lives, from elephants to blades of grass—and, of course, every human being. So we are brothers and sisters to all living things, and owe to all of them the same care and respect, that we wish for ourselves."

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:57 PM

16. Humans are animals also. The person that was killed was in THEIR terrirory as well.

Bears kill lots of animals (did the bear kill the moose?) Do you feel sorry for the animals that bears kill?


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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:04 PM

22. Smart humans know that they are not "top dog" if they live in bear country.

Sure, I feel sorry for animals that are caught as prey.
I also recognize that the natural cycle needs to be kept in balance, and which species has fucked that right up?

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Response to Coventina (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:13 PM

29. If you are looking for natural balances which we have altered the prime place for that is in cities

not in places where an occasional bear that attacks humans is killed. The only wild bears in cities are in zoos.

Smart bears know not to challenge humans for the title of "top dog". You may kill a few but humans have better weapons at their disposal.

Most bears are smart enough not to attack humans - just watch some of the Timothy Treadwell videos.



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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:18 PM

31. Bear attacks are relatively rare. This one was instigated because of a specific trigger: food.

So yeah, bears don't attack humans for the giggles, they are smart that way.

But if a human comes sniffing around it's food, that's a different story. That's an entirely different scenario.

It's the same reason as to why the family dog will bite a toddler that plays with its food bowl.

It's not the dog's fault in that scenario either.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 05:58 PM

17. He should have allowed the beat who's already killed another person in an unprovoked attack to

Just charge him and attack cuz “protecting his fwood”

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Response to Dream Girl (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:06 PM

25. It's not quite that simple but...

if you don't know how things work in bear country, you can't be expected to understand.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:15 PM

39. He didn't have to kill the human

A growl and standing upright would have scared him off.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:21 PM

41. As I said downthread: I'm not in favor of bears attacking humans.

I would have wished the same as you, that a more restrained warning was given.

The problem was the food. He felt his food was being threatened. Bears tend to get unreasonable about that.
Food, and their children.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #39)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 09:34 PM

57. I don't think that was the bear's perception.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 09:49 PM

58. Well I think all animals are innocent even man-eaters..except one!

Montana has less than a dozen Grizzly caused fatalities in decades! Here in Wisconsin we lose on average nine people a year to White-tailed Deer! That is why we have a season on them.

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Response to StClone (Reply #58)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 09:54 PM

59. I'm guessing that's mostly due to vehicle strikes.

How many of the deer survive those?

I am ambivalent about deer hunting.
I'm a vegetarian myself, but I respect those who actually get their hands dirty for their meat.

What I don't like is the excuse that hunting is necessary because otherwise the deer would be over-populated.
Well, deer ARE over-populated, but that's because we foolishly killed all their predators, but ourselves.
So saying we "need" to hunt them is a bit disingenuous. Bring back the large predators, I say.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #59)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 10:12 PM

61. That is pretty much my take.

I am sure you follow the Wolf kills. Pretty sickening here in Wisconsin. Wolves, Puma, Grizzles, Coyotes all work to keep deer in check depending on locality. I grow organic vegetables and deer can be my biggest threat to surviving, right up there with Colorado Potato Beetles, and weather.

All animals need their space. Grizzles are still with us, Wolverines not so much. I mourn the loss of such magnificat animals under any circumstance.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #59)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 10:25 PM

65. Large predators.

So saying we "need" to hunt them is a bit disingenuous. Bring back the large predators, I say.

Large predators are incompatible with dense human populations. Deer are overpopulating areas that are in transition from rural to suburban. If you introduce cougars, et al, to suburbia, there will be a death toll in pets and eventually in humans that will not be tolerated.

Could you explain why you think it's better for deer to be killed by cougars and wolves than by humans? Is there some moral angle that I'm missing?

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #65)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 11:07 PM

68. We need to cut the human population drastically. And reduce the size of our cities.

If we won't do this voluntarily, the planet will figure out a way to do it.

The dramatic decrease in human fertility might be a sign that nature is already starting to cut us down.

And yes, there is definitely a moral angle you are missing. Ecosystems evolved to have wolves and cougars that we eliminated.
Taking them out of the equation has not ended up being a benefit for either humans or deer.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #68)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 11:29 PM

70. Ecosystems are not moral agents.

I will grant that the human species is far too "successful" for its own good or for the health of the planet. I think what you're overlooking is that ecosystems are don't achieve some ideal stasis and then freeze there; they're constantly changing as species evolve and become extinct.

From the point of view of human settlement, taking large predators out of the equation certainly has been beneficial, at least in the short term. It's good to be the apex predator, and it sucks to be the prey.

We can't reduce the size of our cities until we reduce the population -- that's a given. But even at a lower level of population density, coexistence with large predators is problematic. You can't send Junior out to walk the dog if there's a chance that neither one of them will return. That has always been the struggle.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #70)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 11:33 PM

71. Hominids have existed on the planet for about a million years, give or take.

We have not seen such mass extinctions caused by us during all that time that begins to equate to the havoc we are causing now.

Species evolve and go extinct, yes, but not at the rate we are causing. That IS a moral issue, if morality is even a "thing."
(I argue it is).

Hominids have been able to coexist with other apex predators for most of our history. We just need to make different choices to do so again.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #71)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 02:41 AM

74. Oh, I'll grant you that we're causing havoc.

But that havoc involves a whole lot more than our ability to "coexist" with apex predators, which in essence means that sometimes they kill us and sometimes we kill them. In fact, that coexistence, or the lack of it, is little more than a sideshow in the wholesale ecological nightmare that we are visiting on this planet, mainly through the toxic byproducts of our lifestyle and through our overuse of limited resources. We have much bigger problems.

Morality is a human invention. It evolved to facilitate the social constructs that have enabled us to survive thus far. There is absolutely nothing "moral" about the world of nature. Ask Darwin.

The whole notion of our making "choices" to enable our coexistence with apex predators suggests a sort of stewardship over the natural world, in which we make so-called "rational" choices in order to achieve a desired end. This has nothing to do with the observable principles that govern the natural world. Again, see Darwin.

The world of nature is driven by survival and nothing else. By that standard, mankind is the most successful species the world has ever seen. But we are victims of our own success, driving other species into extinction and outstripping the resources that have enabled us to thrive. We have developed rational principles that allow us to function in intraspecies encounters, but they don't apply in any meaningful way to interspecies encounters, in which we are thrown back to survival mode.

Human stewardship over animal life isn't the natural order; it's a manmade construct, a global petting zoo. That might be what it takes to avoid mass extinctions, but you can be sure that we as a species will never voluntarily take a few steps back down the food chain and abandon the apex position. It just isn't "natural."

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #74)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 09:54 AM

80. If you think morality is a human construct then you don't truly understand evolution. n/t

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Response to Coventina (Reply #80)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 02:21 PM

85. So please explain ...

... how morality figures into evolution. It's a sincere question.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #85)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 10:46 PM

86. Sorry for late reply, it's been a busy day.

This is actually a hot field of research right now, so a simple Google search will point you toward some recent research.

Darwin himself speculated that morality was probably a product of evolution, and not invented by humans.

If you want more scholarly sources, your local academic librarian will be happy to help you.

A book to start with would be: The Bonobo and the Atheist by Frans de Waal

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Response to Coventina (Reply #86)

Thu Apr 22, 2021, 12:16 AM

87. No worries.

Darwin himself speculated that morality was probably a product of evolution, and not invented by humans.

"Invention" was a poor choice of words on my part. But I'll stand by what I said (repeated below).

Morality is a human invention. It evolved to facilitate the social constructs that have enabled us to survive thus far.

My point is that morality is an evolutionary adaptation that is necessary for large-scale, complex social cooperation. It may exist to some extent in animal communities, but it certainly doesn't extend beyond the immediate group. Altruism only becomes viable when the species' survival is virtually guaranteed.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #74)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 01:08 PM

84. "There's nothing moral about nature." Absolutely.


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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:03 PM

21. I know the guide's employer well...

I met Mock once or twice in passing, had to look up a picture to be sure. Sad.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #21)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:11 PM

28. I'm not in favor of bears attacking humans, I should probably make that clear.

I just don't think that bears should be killed for being bears is all.

I am sorry for what Mock went through, as it was undoubtedly horrific.

I think our collective species' domination of the planet helps us to forget our relative individual helplessness.

Unless we have a firearm, we are no match for any large land predator.

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Response to Coventina (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:22 PM

34. And many small animals too.

I have been an NPS Ranger and a bear safety specialist for several years, I am not in favor of killing bears for mauling humans unless they discover that humans are made out of meat and might be something to eat, it means they would probably kill others. And even then I don't like that they are killed for it.

There are ways to be safe in bear country but this guide seems to have become complacent as he successfully fished there many times before without incident. Like I said above, I know the location this happened, the employer and have met the victim in the past.

That the bear rushed the searchers was bad and was the death of him.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #34)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:20 PM

40. I was hoping you would weigh in here.

There’s no way in hell I would be alone this time of year where this happened. Bears are out and they’re hungry. What happened is a tragedy all around.

My kiddo is an avid angler...he fishes the Blackfoot River Corridor like a maniac all season long. I do not let him fish the upper Blackfoot alone for this very reason. It is thick with grizzly bears in the spring when sows are coming out of dens with cubs and also in the fall before hibernation. We float the Blackfoot a lot as a family and never ever pull out in a spot where we can’t see at least 100 yards around. Bears are easily hidden and can move a whole lot faster than any of us.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #40)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:42 PM

47. That's the truth of it.

It is sad.

Good to hear that you know where the bears hang out and when, they have their favorite haunts and return to them regularly if there is a food option.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #47)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 11:23 PM

69. That's the whole problem.

Humans breed food sources with our carelessness. I live exactly one mile from the Rattlesnake Wilderness trailhead. Grizzlies are regular visitors to the area and it never ceases to amaze me how many people leave pet food outside as well as bird feeders year round. Bears will eat whatever is near and available. All of my fruit trees have bear claw scars up and down the trunks. If I don’t/can’t get to the fruit before the bears scope it out, that’s not their fault, it’s mine. I actually love knowing they are around. It heightens my senses. I wish more people would play by the rules and do the right thing.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 09:15 AM

78. Down where this event took place...

There's a hefty fine for leaving bear attractants outside but tourists in their vaca rentals will put their trash out on the porch and feed the bears. I still keep bear spray by the door because I had to when I lived there. And the ravens will always tell where the goodies are.

Just have to be bear aware if you're going to be outdoors in bear country, that is all. People seem to be okay with being oblivious to their surroundings and expect everyone else to watch out for them or take responsibility for their own lack of interest in their own safety. But I could rant about that all day, I managed to escape a heavily trafficked touristville so I am thankful to get out with most of my sanity.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:05 PM

24. A previous incident:

Case closed in fatal griz attack

Investigation concludes bear spray worked, but was deployed too late.
By Mike Koshmrl Jan 30, 2019

A Florida hunter who fled from a grizzly bear that was trying to appropriate an elk carcass thought his Jackson Hole guide was already dead when he first rang 911 from a high slope in the Teton Wilderness.

Wyoming Game and Fish Department investigators later found evidence that supported his suspicion: that outfitter Mark Uptain was fatally wounded during an initial attack and likely died within minutes, even though he managed to halt the brutal mauling with a blast of bear spray and stagger 50 yards before succumbing to massive trauma and blood loss.

“Evidence suggests that when Uptain deployed the bear spray, it stopped the aggression, giving him time to escape,” Game and Fish investigators detailed in a just-released report. “However, this appears to be after the fatal injuries were inflicted.”



Mark Uptain
COURTESY PHOTO

Those conclusions, and descriptions of events that played out, come from a 34-page investigation report Game and Fish provided to the News&Guide following a public records request. The document doesn’t settle all debates, but it clarifies a previously murky series of events, doing so with an analysis, photos, schematics, and statements and eyewitness reports from first responders, a coroner and hunting client Corey Chubon.

Some of the details that follow in this story are gory and graphic but are being included to give readers a sense of the true hazard that’s an inherent part of recreating and hunting in grizzly bear habitat. ... The sudden Sept. 14 attack that killed 37-year-old Uptain and left five Jackson Hole children without a father is an outlier in several ways.

{snip}

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:43 PM

48. I am hardly well acquainted with these situations.


But it sounds like was caught unawares.

The tragedy that pulled heartstrings and stoked emotions in Jackson Hole and well beyond stemmed from a raghorn bull elk that Chubon’s crossbow hit with a “poor shot” on a Thursday afternoon in mid-September. Uptain, an experienced guide for Martin Outfitters, was with his hunter on Terrace Mountain, a broad peak that’s 6 air miles from the Turpin Meadow trailhead. Uptain and Chubon couldn’t find the elk, but they returned the next afternoon to where it was hit and then found a large blood trail. They followed it into a patch of timber and around 1 p.m. discovered the undisturbed carcass.

It was a warm day — peaking at 73 degrees in nearby Moran — and while field dressing the elk Uptain removed his shirt and left it and his black nylon shoulder strap holding a Glock 10-millimeter handgun 5 or 10 yards uphill of the carcass. A canister of bear spray was slung from a hip holster on Uptain’s left side, but Chubon’s bear spray was left in his pack because it had “become cumbersome carrying it on the horse,” he told investigators.

Uptain was removing the bull’s head, with Chubon nearby, when they heard a sound of rocks tumbling, presaging the attack.

“Mr. Chubon stated he looked up and saw two grizzly bears running full speed directly toward them,” Game Warden Jon Stephens wrote after interviewing the surviving client.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:09 PM

26. Timing in deployment of they spray is crucial.

The guy could have been blind-sided by the bear but he also should have known better than to be out alone this time of year. I used to go mushroom picking where this happened and I always went with at least one other and we both had spray handy.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:48 PM

49. Inexcusable for the man to be fishing there

alone in springtime. What got into him. An unnecessary tragedy for all.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #49)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:53 PM

51. Complacency is common in these parts.

I'm afraid that was the case here.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:09 PM

27. Well he did attack the helicopter as well

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Reply #27)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 06:13 PM

30. Go punish yourself

For reminding me of that movie...

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:14 PM

38. I used to live in West Yellowstone

I have no information on what happened to this person but a lot of people do not obey the strict bear safety regulations, which have become more strict in the last three years.

The bear always dies when humans are careless. Pepper spray is very effective and must be at hand's reach.

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Response to Mysterian (Reply #38)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 07:28 PM

45. "The bear always dies when humans are careless." Which is why I take the position I take.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 09:17 PM

55. another who supports the bear here. We really don't understand nature well at all.

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Response to NewHendoLib (Reply #55)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 10:17 PM

62. Much of nature is trying to kill us. From tiny viruses to large mamals. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #62)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 10:35 PM

66. and we bring it on ourselves, in my opinion. WE are a highly flawed species.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 09:28 PM

56. Depressing.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 09:55 PM

60. Too few grizzlies left to kill one.

Mistake. We've exterminated their species because we're stupid and cruel, thoughtless and incompetent.

Ultra-predators. Too successful to allow anything else to survive. Including perhaps ourselves -- in the end.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 11:38 PM

72. The bear was killed

Because it had lost its fear of humans. And most experts will tell you that relocation is cruel. If there has been conflict with a human, it’s normally because the bear is struggling to cope. Moving them puts a compromised bear into another bears territory, it’s a death sentence.

The other point someone ought to make, is that 'the bears were there first' isn’t necessarily that valid. Archeology suggests bears reached the contiguous northern states 12-1300yrs ago, after the end of the ice age. And so did humans, there are a dozen or tribes in Montana recognized as 'major' with another dozen described as 'minor'.

America was not empty, pending the arrival of John Wayne

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Response to amcgrath (Reply #72)

Tue Apr 20, 2021, 11:55 PM

73. He hadn't lost his fear of humans. He was AFRAID the humans were after his food.

And. out of those tribes that migrated to the Americas....they were known for wiping out apex predators?

Seems as if the humans and bears coexisted pretty well, until the Europeans came along...

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 08:48 AM

77. I just wish it had been Don Jr out there fishing. nt

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #77)

Wed Apr 21, 2021, 09:21 AM

79. Too much like hard work for that to happen. Unfortunately. (n)

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Thu Apr 22, 2021, 07:30 AM

88. I've known some of these "wildlife workers" who "investigate" animal attacks

and a lot of them consider these "investigations" as just an opportunity to go hunting on the government dime.

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Response to Coventina (Original post)

Fri Apr 23, 2021, 02:11 AM

90. I used to solo backpack in bear country back in the 70's...

Albeit in California where there are black bears, and no grizzly bears. Everything I've heard about grizzly bears makes me want to avoid them like the plague.

Not that black bears cannot be dangerous too. I backpacked the same river gorge alone three times over five years or so. It would take me about a week. I usually saw a black bear at some point each time. The first two trips, the bears kept their distance and I did the same. I don't recall bear spray being an option back then.

On the final trip, I found a harrowing note from a previous hiker, detailing how a bear ransacked their food and campsite, etc. I was always careful to hang my food from a tall tree branch and generally did not have a problem with the black bears. Occasionally I would see one, but it would keep its distance.

I got a bit freaked out, and decided to hike 10-15 miles up the 4,000 foot canyon in one day. Usually I'd stop halfway up to rest and enjoy the last night in the wild. But that time, largely because I knew that good trees to hang food from were sort of hard to find on that part of the trail, and I didn't want to risk a bear encounter I decided to make it all in one day. Took me about 10 hours, and when I got to the car campground at the top, it was pitch dark, and I was exhausted.

The kitchen had closed for the night, but I persuaded the staff to allow me to eat some food at the facility, and then fumbled my way to an open campsite. I hadn't much food left, what I had was freeze dried, and not thinking I just took the pillow sack it was in out of my backpack and tossed it on the picnic table. My flashlight batteries were dead and I could not for the life of me see if there were any secure places to keep the food. I crawled into my sleeping bag, no tent, and was asleep within seconds.

Some time later, I awoke to the sound of the pillow sack being ripped open. My bad... Other campers heard the noise and got up and were shouting, "Bear!". I guess they had working flashlights. The bear looked huge to me, sniffed in my general direction, and just grunted and waddled off, freeze dried whatever in its maw.

I haven't solo backpacked since. Been here, done that!

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