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Wed Apr 14, 2021, 08:50 AM

Maryland trooper fatally shoots teen armed with airsoft gun

Source: UPI

April 14 (UPI) -- Police in Maryland said they are investigating a trooper-involved shooting that resulted in the death of a 16-year-old boy armed with an airsoft gun and knife.

Maryland State Police on Tuesday identified the slain teen as Peyton Ham of Leonardtown, Md., located about 56 miles south of Washington, D.C.

Authorities said police received two separate 911 calls within minutes of each other at around 1:30 p.m. concerning a man acting suspicious and possibly armed, Maryland State Police said in a statement.

According to a preliminary investigation, the state trooper shot Ham in a Hollywood Road driveway.

Read more: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/04/14/Maryland-trooper-fatally-shoots-Petyon-Ham/7711618376630/

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Reply Maryland trooper fatally shoots teen armed with airsoft gun (Original post)
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 OP
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #1
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #3
whistler162 Apr 14 #12
Escurumbele Apr 14 #25
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #28
Mosby Apr 14 #90
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #91
Calista241 Apr 14 #100
summer_in_TX Apr 14 #126
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #127
Mr. Evil Apr 14 #41
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #44
flying_wahini Apr 14 #75
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #79
Grins Apr 14 #97
Tumbulu Apr 14 #98
Quakerfriend Apr 14 #112
momta Apr 14 #113
Random Boomer Apr 14 #43
rickyhall Apr 14 #55
sarisataka Apr 14 #61
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #62
sarisataka Apr 14 #63
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #64
ET Awful Apr 14 #66
ET Awful Apr 14 #65
eggplant Apr 14 #67
BradAllison Apr 14 #89
ripcord Apr 14 #36
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #38
sarisataka Apr 14 #49
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #50
DENVERPOPS Apr 14 #111
momta Apr 14 #114
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #115
Karadeniz Apr 14 #129
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #130
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #133
ecstatic Apr 15 #141
Watchfoxheadexplodes Apr 14 #2
marble falls Apr 14 #4
LineLineReply ?
Watchfoxheadexplodes Apr 14 #5
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #6
NurseJackie Apr 14 #7
Tbear Apr 14 #9
Watchfoxheadexplodes Apr 14 #11
OnlinePoker Apr 14 #13
Tbear Apr 14 #24
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #15
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #16
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #19
Tbear Apr 14 #26
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #39
Tbear Apr 14 #47
oldsoftie Apr 14 #56
Tbear Apr 14 #59
NurseJackie Apr 14 #17
Chakaconcarne Apr 14 #21
Tbear Apr 14 #30
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #31
SoCalNative Apr 14 #34
The Mouth Apr 14 #48
Polybius Apr 14 #80
whopis01 Apr 14 #93
Calista241 Apr 14 #103
whopis01 Apr 14 #131
happy feet Apr 14 #106
happy feet Apr 14 #109
Jose Garcia Apr 14 #122
NickB79 Apr 14 #125
colorado_ufo Apr 14 #77
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #81
colorado_ufo Apr 14 #85
RobinA Apr 14 #96
NurseJackie Apr 14 #27
ET Awful Apr 14 #68
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #70
ET Awful Apr 14 #71
FSogol Apr 14 #73
colorado_ufo Apr 14 #82
NurseJackie Apr 14 #8
Watchfoxheadexplodes Apr 14 #10
NurseJackie Apr 14 #14
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #18
NurseJackie Apr 14 #23
FailureToCommunicate Apr 14 #20
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #22
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #29
Tbear Apr 14 #35
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #37
FailureToCommunicate Apr 14 #118
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #121
Happy Hoosier Apr 14 #137
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #138
FailureToCommunicate Apr 14 #117
oldsoftie Apr 14 #57
FailureToCommunicate Apr 14 #119
oldsoftie Apr 15 #140
stopdiggin Apr 14 #107
FailureToCommunicate Apr 14 #120
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #123
stopdiggin Apr 14 #124
Tbear Apr 14 #32
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #33
Tbear Apr 14 #40
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #42
Tbear Apr 14 #45
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #46
Tbear Apr 14 #53
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #54
oldsoftie Apr 14 #58
Tbear Apr 14 #72
oldsoftie Apr 14 #102
BradAllison Apr 14 #95
sarisataka Apr 14 #104
ripcord Apr 14 #132
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #139
quickesst Apr 14 #51
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #52
quickesst Apr 14 #128
lillypaddle Apr 14 #60
Dial H For Hero Apr 14 #74
lillypaddle Apr 14 #116
ET Awful Apr 14 #69
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #76
Calista241 Apr 14 #105
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 14 #134
Tbear Apr 14 #78
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #83
Tbear Apr 14 #86
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #87
rickyhall Apr 14 #84
maxsolomon Apr 14 #88
Mosby Apr 14 #92
MarineCombatEngineer Apr 14 #94
Dial H For Hero Apr 15 #142
stillcool Apr 14 #99
sarisataka Apr 14 #101
happy feet Apr 14 #108
Jose Garcia Apr 14 #135
stillcool Apr 14 #136
mahatmakanejeeves Apr 14 #110

Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 08:56 AM

1. Suicide by cop?

Those airsoft guns can look pretty realistic, even up close.
So far, from what is reported, it seems this is a justified homicide.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:00 AM

3. Possibly so. On the face of it, the shooting appears justified.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:57 AM

25. How can it be justified? Don't these cops go to shooting class/practice?

Why is it that they always shoot to kill? Why can't they shoot to disable temporarily, even at close range they shoot to kill.

I find it so horrible and unthinkable on how a human can even think about killing another human just because they can. I understand self-defense, but either these cops are not trained well or they are just hungry to kill.

It is never justified when there are other options, there are, they should be able to shoot to the legs, to the arms, anywhere in the body where the victim will not die.

All these crap about "all life is precious", mainly from republicans, but then they go out and kill, they start wars, a killing is just old news, very little sensibility and empathy towards the victims...No, no killing is justified when there are other options.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:01 AM

28. ...

It is never justified when there are other options, there are, they should be able to shoot to the legs, to the arms, anywhere in the body where the victim will not die.


LOL, this is Hollywood bullshit.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:50 PM

90. No it isn't, the IDF does it to minimize casualties.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:54 PM

91. Yeah

And how many die due to major arteries being struck?

Almost every law enforcement agency in the world are taught to aim center mass due to the difficulty of trying to hit a small moving target.

As I said, this is Hollywood bullshit.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:23 PM

100. The goal isn't to kill people. It's to prevent them from harming the officer or

Someone else. It’s not like they’re instantly incapacitated if the cop shoots someone in the arm. And while you’re aiming for this small target profile, what’s the other guy doing? What is he / she shooting at?

Someone shot in the arm or leg can easily shoot back, or they can shoot at any other target presented.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 05:39 PM

126. Law enforcement is trained to always aim for the body.

It's too easy to miss when shooting at arms or legs.

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Response to summer_in_TX (Reply #126)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 05:46 PM

127. Exactly!!!!!! nt

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:23 AM

41. Why are cops always assuming the worst?

Why aren't they armed only with rubber bullets? Their job is not to be an executioner. They are supposed to apprehend alleged criminals and bring them to justice.

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Response to Mr. Evil (Reply #41)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:29 AM

44. Rubber bullets? Really?

Are you not aware that rubber bullets fire from a handguns simply sting? Police officers would be virtually helpless against any assailant armed with a real firearm.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #44)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:53 AM

75. Yea they sting, not kill. That was the point.

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Response to flying_wahini (Reply #75)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:00 PM

79. And police only using rubber bullets would be helpless against crimnals with real guns.

That was the point.

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Response to Mr. Evil (Reply #41)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 01:29 PM

97. Gunfight in the streets ...

...of a town in Calif. years ago. Massive. In broad daylight. Lasted hours. Guy held off and shot cops left and right because - he had more firepower and protection than the cops. That was the wake-up! Police started re-arming with bigger and better out of necessity.

The better solution? GET RID OF THE FUCKING GUNS!!

Be a civilized 21st Century nation. It’s what we should have done but can’t because of that goddamned 2nd Amendment we are cursed with.

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Response to Grins (Reply #97)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:13 PM

98. that is the only solution, because the police are dealing

with such heavily armed nut jobs all over the place.

I have seen the change in my lifetime.

It has not been a good one at all.

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Response to Grins (Reply #97)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:53 PM

112. Yes, I remember that. The guy not only had more fire power but full body armor as well.

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Response to Grins (Reply #97)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:00 PM

113. Yes!

We are putting up with daily carnage, just because two hundred years ago a bunch of slave owners wrote it down on a piece of paper.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:28 AM

43. No, it doesn't work that way

There's no such thing as a disabling shot because you can't reliably shoot a limb on a moving human. The result would likely be a missed shot, increasing the risk to bystanders, or a flesh wound, neither of which stop the assailant from doing whatever it was that prompted the shooting in the first place.

The better policy is to train police how to de-escalate situations so that no shooting is started in the first place. That's a lot harder to do when someone is armed and attacking the police. Not all situations can be resolved through non-violent means.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:14 AM

55. Cops are trained to shoot square in the chest, a kill shoot, usually multiple rounds. The way it is.

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #55)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:24 AM

61. Everyone who takes defensive shooting training

Is trained to shoot for the chest (center of mass) because is gives the greatest chance of a hit. A hit there is also the quickest way to incapacitate a person so you can stop shooting them. Unfortunately an incapacitating injury to a person is also an injury that has a risk of being fatal.

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Response to rickyhall (Reply #55)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:26 AM

62. Off topic, but,

I love your sig line, it's so accurate.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:28 AM

63. Say the officer did attempt an arm or leg shot

And the missed bullet carries a couple hundred yards to strike a 8 year old child who couldn't even be seen by the officer. Will you be willing to defend the officer's action because he was trying to avoid killing the person threatening him?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #63)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:30 AM

64. Or, attempts an arm or leg shot,

hits a major artery and the person bleeds out?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #63)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:34 AM

66. Or misses the shot, but as a result draws attention to himself and leaves himself exposed

Shooting for an arm or a leg (which is likely to be a fast moving and smaller body part making it harder to hit) is not a viable option. When you are seeking to stop a threat, you aim for the target that you are most likely to hit and that is most likely to stop the threat.

It ain't pretty, it ain't nice, but it reality.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:31 AM

65. Shooting arms, legs, etc. is not a viable option. Those are small quickly moving body parts that

are not easy to hit and shooting at them and missing increases the threat to you and others, it does nothing to stop it.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:37 AM

67. Because if there isn't a justification to shoot to kill...

...there isn't justification to shoot to wound.

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Response to Escurumbele (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:46 PM

89. That's not how it works and never has been.

Sorry.

You shoot for he largest body mass. Because the assumption always is the assailant is going to kill you first.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:16 AM

36. I agree was probably suicide by cop

After being shot the guy pulled a knife.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:19 AM

38. He did seem determined to force the cops to kill him.

At this point, unless further evidence contrary to the officers accounts, it would seem to be a justifiable homicide.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:59 AM

49. Appears that way

Of course initial reports are often wrong so I will reserve the option to change my opinion if conflicting information is revealed.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #49)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:02 AM

50. +100. nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:51 PM

111. Hey MCE

Most of the play guns are required to paint the tip of the barrel a bright orange, but that wouldn't prevent someone with an real gun from painting the end of their barrel orange just to throw off the cops.
My grandson has a bb gun that looks exactly like an assault weapon, and has no orange on the tip of the barrel.
Then there are a bunch of suicide by cop people out there.

There is no easy answer to all this gun stuff, I can see why the police AND the citizens are both confused.....

Be well MCE, and stay safe.........

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:03 PM

114. Then again...

Some cops can't tell the difference between a gun and a taser when it's in their own hand.

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Response to momta (Reply #114)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:18 PM

115. Touche' my friend,

Touche'.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 06:11 PM

129. I wouldn't let my child have a bb gun that looked like the real thing.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #129)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 06:12 PM

130. Neither would I. nt

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #129)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 08:38 PM

133. I wouldn't let a child have an Airsoft "gun" that looked real.

I was shooting a pellet gun at age 8 under adult supervision, had my own .22 at age 10, and a shotgun by age 12.

I don't particularly like Airsoft, though. A child shouldn't be playing with a toy that's indistinguishable from the real thing, and as an adult I don't get the point. Why buy something that looks like an AR-15 but only shoot plastic BBs, when I can simply get a real one?

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 15, 2021, 09:57 AM

141. That's if we believe the police officer's narrative

Is there any video proof? Body cam? Or any non-police witnesses?

If the police narrative is true, then it probably was an intentionally provocative act by the teen, not necessarily to commit suicide. Perhaps he was trying to demonstrate a point? Unfortunately, the part of the brain responsible for judgment isn't fully developed until around 25 years old.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 08:58 AM

2. Suicide or stupidity if aiming at officer

Geez

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:18 AM

4. "Armed" with an airsoft weapon.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:21 AM

5. ?

He was.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:23 AM

6. Which is virtually indistinguishable from a real one under these circumstances.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:23 AM

7. No "quotes" needed. Yes, he was ARMED. Pretty convincing looking, too... even up close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft_gun
Airsoft guns are replica toy guns used in airsoft sports. They are a special type of low-power smoothbore air guns designed to shoot non-metallic spherical projectiles often colloquially (but incorrectly) referred to as "BBs", which are typically made of (but not limited to) plastic or biodegradable resin materials. Airsoft gun powerplants are designed to have low muzzle energy ratings (generally less than 1.5 J, or 1.1 ft⋅lb) and the pellets have significantly less penetrative and stopping powers than conventional airguns, and are generally safe for competitive sporting and recreational purposes if proper protective gear is worn.

Depending on the design mechanism for pellet propulsion, airsoft guns can be categorized into two groups: mechanical, which consists of a coil spring-loaded piston air pump that is either manually cocked (e.g. spring guns) or automatically cycled by a battery-powered electric motor gearbox (e.g. AEGs); and pneumatic, which operates by valve-controlled release of prefilled bottled gas such as compressed propane mixed with silicone oil (commonly known as "Green Gas'') or CO2 canisters (e.g. GBB guns).

As toy weapons, airsoft guns can often be designed to realistically resemble genuine firearms in external appearance, and it can be very difficult to visually distinguish from one despite the orange muzzle tips in some jurisdictions.






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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:33 AM

9. Yup looks exactly like a real gun EXCEPT THE MUZZLE IS PAINTED ORANGE!!!

I call bullshit on this shooting.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:36 AM

11. Not always paint

Sometimes a plastic cover.

Both can be removed although I believe illegal in some states to remove coloring?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:39 AM

13. You've got a fraction of a second to make a decision.

You're going to be able to determine if what is pointed at you has an orange muzzle? No. You see a gun and react.

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Response to OnlinePoker (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:55 AM

24. A half-second to react IF you are surprised

The officer was called to the scene so should not have been surprised.
Who called it in? What did they report? What was the officer told? Was he/she the sole respondent?
Lots of questions here before we say it’s ok when a minor is killed for having a toy gun.
What if the kid had been white? Just sayin’

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:44 AM

15. It's very easy to remove the orange tip or paint it the same color as the gun.

Until I hear different, then this does appear to be a justified homicide.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:44 AM

16. From the factory, yes. But a quick Google search shows countless discussions of Airsoft owners

painting the orange tip black to make it look more realistic. This may have been the case here, or not. We don't know.

But even if it did still have the orange tip, do you really expect a police officer to immediately notice from a distance that less than 1% of the Airsoft pistol is orange, rather than black?

What's more, there have been multiple instances of criminals painting the tips of real firearms orange in an attempt to make law enforcement think that such guns are actually toys. Given that, do you expect police to never shoot if they see an orange tip?

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:45 AM

19. +100. nt

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:58 AM

26. No I expect that they stop shooting our children.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:22 AM

39. And when a 16 year old "child" points a realistic-looking weapon at an officer, they should

do what, exactly?

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:50 AM

47. What was the range? 10 feet? 30 feet? More importantly

what information did I have before I arrived?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #47)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:15 AM

56. When someone is believed to be armed, 30ft is nothing. Watch the "21ft rule" video.

If someone comes at you from 21 ft away, they usually get to you before you can draw a weapon & fire

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #56)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:21 AM

59. Oh I know

Yet, most bullets fired by police at 30 feet under duress will miss the target.
Maybe there are flaws in the training?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:44 AM

17. It's orange when it can be seen clearly in static photographs or in proper light...

... but it's worth pointing out that the orange muzzle isn't self-illuminating. In dim light, or when in motion, or when obscured, or when viewed from a distance, it can easily blend-in or be overlooked.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:47 AM

21. Yeah, I don't know......

If you were a police officer and someone was convincingly pointing what looks to be an assault weapon at you...with an orange tip or not...

What's your decision in that moment? Did you happen to notice that orange tip?

I would think it's just common knowledge that you don't go pointing any kind of weapon at a police officer.

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Response to Chakaconcarne (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:05 AM

30. The officer was called to the scene so there was no surprise

We’re they told “armed black male shooter”?
or “black man acting suspicious”?
or “there were two calls so it must be bad”?
Don’t know.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:07 AM

31. You don't know, yet you're calling bullshit on this shooting?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:14 AM

34. I have 2 air pistols

one is a replica Glock 19 that shoots BBs. The other is a replica .357 that shoots pellets.

Neither one of them have orange or plastic parts on the muzzle/barrel or anywhere else that would ID them as not the real thing. So not all of them are distinguishable from the real thing.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:56 AM

48. Kid here took the plastic off and got killed

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:02 PM

80. Maybe his wasn't

Many, many paint the orange tip black with a marker. I did with water guns in the late 80's.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:56 PM

93. Not necessarily true

I have seen a great many airsoft guns without the orange barrel tip.

Have a look at this. Three are airsoft guns and three are real guns.

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Response to whopis01 (Reply #93)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:29 PM

103. I'm gonna vote for the nickel plated sissy pistol being an airsoft pistol. N/t

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #103)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 07:26 PM

131. You are correct on that one. n/t

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:40 PM

106. Agree

So quick to believe the policeman's cleaned up account. Have we learned nothing? Apparently, not. I surmise that the BOY (16 yrs old - though reported as a 'man'---another issue) was having a mental health crisis. We should have mental health professionals w/police on calls like this. They can try to deescalate. We don't know when the gun came out...

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:45 PM

109. Agree

So quick to believe the policeman's cleaned up account. Have we learned nothing? Apparently, not. I surmise that the BOY (16 yrs old - though reported as a 'man'---another issue) was having a mental health crisis. We should have mental health professionals w/police on calls like this. They can try to deescalate. We don't know when the gun came out...

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:55 PM

122. He also had a knife. Does it matter what color that was?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 04:45 PM

125. A can of black spray paint costs $1

No more orange tip.

Also, the orange tip is the size of the tip of your finger to start with.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:57 AM

77. Why on earth would people want to have these as "toys?"

This is the deeper part of the problem, that pretending to kill each other is "fun."

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #77)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:03 PM

81. I've played paintball. In it, you essentially pretend to kill each other.

The same goes for wargames, roleplaying games, videogames such as Call of Duty. Simulated violence in every one of them. And yes, they are fun.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #81)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:06 PM

85. I played laser tag once, and even then, it felt uncomfortable to me.

I guess I need a deeper understanding of why we find it "fun" to pretend to kill one another. Are we really that hard wired to do that?

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 01:27 PM

96. I Hate Those

m&$#f*&%kers. My nephew used to play with them with his friends and I could never understand why they didn't get shot by the police. I told him if he ever sees police, even miles away, drop the thing. They run around shooting at each other. What's a policeman to do? Even a pacifist policeman, if there is such a thing.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:59 AM

27. Someone who robs a 7-11 with his pointed finger in a jacket pocket is also "armed"...

... and can be convicted of armed-robbery even though no actual firearm was used. (If I recall correctly.)

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:39 AM

68. Quick - which of the guns in the picture below are airsoft weapons and which are real?

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #68)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:42 AM

70. Even with my weapons training,

I cannot tell which is real and which is not.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #70)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:43 AM

71. Likewise, and exactly my point. n/t

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Response to marble falls (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:48 AM

73. Armed" with an toy gun!

FIFY

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Response to FSogol (Reply #73)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:04 PM

82. A 16 year old should know better than to point a gun, even a replica, at a police officer.

Even as a small kid with a cap pistol (like 60+ years ago), I was taught NEVER to point it at anyone. I didn't buy even cap pistols for my kids. This was a very disturbed 16 y.o.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:27 AM

8. It's only a matter of time before gun carrying individuals dab some orange paint...

... on the muzzles of their genuine firearms.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:34 AM

10. The purpose of that would be?

I can not think of any reason to do that with firearms I own.

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Response to Watchfoxheadexplodes (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:40 AM

14. To deceive and make someone question the authenticity of the weapon aimed at them...

... which could delay their defensive response or cause them to be less alarmed at the idea of "just a toy" being aimed at them.

I can not think of any reason to do that with firearms I own.
Obviously, you think like a rational and responsible human being... you don't have a criminal mindset. (So what does that say about me? Yikes!) 🤪😜

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:45 AM

18. There have been reports of this happening for at least a decade or so.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:50 AM

23. I guess I'm not as demented and deranged as previously thought.

There have been reports of this happening for at least a decade or so.
I guess I'm not as demented and deranged as previously thought.

What a world.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:47 AM

20. Karens gotta STOP calling police on kids playing with toys. Cops gotta stop shooting to kill.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:49 AM

22. They shoot for center of mass, which is wholly appropriate. What do you expect them to do,

try to shoot the gun out of someone's hand?

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:04 AM

29. Apparently, someone up thread believes that.

It is never justified when there are other options, there are, they should be able to shoot to the legs, to the arms, anywhere in the body where the victim will not die.


I think somebody's been watching too many movies.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:16 AM

35. No I would not expect the typical police officer to

Be able to shoot specific body parts with a handgun, especially under stress. No more than I would expect the typical Marine to be able to.

What was the distance of the shooting?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:17 AM

37. Yet, you've already called bullshit on the shooting?

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:46 PM

118. The kid was down on first shot. THEN the cop fired a second shot.

according to the article.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #118)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:53 PM

121. The second shot was fired, according to the police,

when the kid attempted to get up with a knife in his hand.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #121)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:53 PM

137. I might have waited to see what happened.

There is a good chance that he could not have been able to stay upright long enough to be a serious threat.

But this was not a case of a cop shooting an unarmed person. The shooting was justified here, however tragic the outcome. It sounds to me like that kid wanted to die. This wasn't unintentional on his part... after being shot, he drew a knife and got up.

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #137)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:56 PM

138. I agree with you,

this teenager, for whatever reasons, seemed to have wanted the cops to kill him.

It's certainly a tragedy all around.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:45 PM

117. The kid was down on first shot. THEN the cop fired a second shot.

according to the article.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:18 AM

57. Real life isnt like TV. You shoot for the center. "Aim for the leg" & you're likely in trouble.

In the movies average people can make great shots with a pistol 100 ft away. That isnt realistic.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #57)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:47 PM

119. The kid was down on first shot. THEN the cop fired a second shot.

according to the article.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #57)

Thu Apr 15, 2021, 06:46 AM

140. Victim was a white male.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:41 PM

107. Nope. I see somebody walking

my neighborhood with a firearm -- I'm going to call the police. And feel good about it!

(there are degrees of course. a six year old with a squirt gun probably doesn't get dimed. a sixteen year old with an authentic sidearm or assault weapon? you damn betcha'! don't want to get shot? stop 'flashing' your weapon at the cops!)

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #107)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:52 PM

120. Does the name Tamir Rice ring a bell?

...or John Crawford III ?

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #120)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:56 PM

123. Tamir Rice was never even given the chance to put down the "gun"

that he had, and John Crawford III was swatted by an asshole, this 16 yo, again according to the police, was assuming a shooting stance when shot by the trooper.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #120)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 04:18 PM

124. I remember Tamir Rice

and the fact that the police response was flat out criminal in that incident -- does NOT translate into me being OK with individuals strolling around my neighborhood (or parks) with all manner of firearms. Call the cops! And -- unless you have a death wish -- don't point your weapon (real or replica) at the police officer!

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:09 AM

32. Look folks

All we know for sure is that a black minor with a toy gun was killed by a police officer.

To declare it justified homicide at this point is irresponsible at best.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:12 AM

33. Nobody is declaring it a justified homicide,

we're saying it appears at this point to be a justifiable homicide, yet you have already called bullshit on the shooting.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #33)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:23 AM

40. YOU

Called it justified homicide in post #15.

I believe when a kid gets shot be a cop it’s bullshit because something went horribly and stupidly wrong.
From the shooting itself to the calls leading up to it to the systemic racism in our police and society.

I’ll double down on this: It’s bullshit when a kid gets shot by a cop.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:26 AM

42. No I did not.

MarineCombatEngineer (3,665 posts)

1. Suicide by cop?

Those airsoft guns can look pretty realistic, even up close.
So far, from what is reported, it seems this is a justified homicide.


Notice the part where I said it seems this is a justified homicide.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:36 AM

45. Fair enough

How about this one, same day, as reported up thread by Whistler162

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2021/03/dispatcher-warned-of-jamesville-teens-airgun-and-suicide-by-cop-before-fatal-shooting-by-police.html

Teen points air gun and is killed by police.
They knew before going in he had air guns and was suicidal.


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Response to Tbear (Reply #45)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:41 AM

46. ,,,

You left this part out:

The dispatcher also told officers that the teen had a history of being armed and emotionally disturbed.


So, given what info the officer's had, then what were they to believe?
That this time it was an airsoft gun or a real gun?

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #46)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:06 AM

53. History of being armed is a little different than known to own an air soft gun

He does own an airsoft gun, unknown if it’s with him,” a 911 dispatcher said over the police radio at the time of the 12:25 p.m. incident. “He has threatened suicide by cops in the past.”

I wasn’t there. Don’t know how I would have reacted.

There were reportedly multiple agencies there. Were they all scared of this one young man?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #53)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:12 AM

54. ,,,

I wasn’t there. Don’t know how I would have reacted.


Fair enough.

There were reportedly multiple agencies there. Were they all scared of this one young man?


As you said, we weren't there, we don't know exactly what went down.

I spent 2 years with the Marine Security Forces and I was in some pretty intense situations on occasion and I can say that when the adrenaline is pumping, it makes for tense moments.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:21 AM

58. Yeah, shooting those Columbine "kids" wouldnt have been justified at all, right?

Not to mention the litany of under-18s who shoot people on a regular basis?
Get real.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #58)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:47 AM

72. Columbine kids were actually shooting real guns with real bullets

give ME a break

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Response to Tbear (Reply #72)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:29 PM

102. YOU said "Its bullshit when a kid gets shot by a cop". Not "carrying a fake gun".

FAIL.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 01:01 PM

95. How do you know he was black?

Nowhere in any of these stories is his race mentioned.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:31 PM

104. You may want to check

What you know "for sure"

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Response to Tbear (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 08:23 PM

132. Obviously you don't know much

Peyton Ham

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Response to Tbear (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 10:01 PM

139. You might want to either edit or delete this post. nt

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:02 AM

51. I am among those....

.... who think that on face value the shooting was justified. Having said that, I don't know if I have ever been witness to some of the dumbest, most illogical, and unrealistic answers than in this thread.

I'm sure there have been, but I just can't recall them at this time. This is one of those hard to top moments.

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Response to quickesst (Reply #51)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:05 AM

52. +100. nt

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #52)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 05:49 PM

128. Sometimes....

.... you have to call them like you see them. 🤔

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:23 AM

60. This is fucked up all the way around

WTH kind of toys are these? Do parents actually allow their kids to partake in these soft sports?

What do people expect when they point a realistic "toy" gun at someone?

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #60)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:52 AM

74. Realistic looking toy guns have been around for a very long time.

Some of these a close to a hundred years old.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Reply #74)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:35 PM

116. Guess I didn't know that

because the only gun I ever let my kid play with was a plastic lime green squirt gun.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:42 AM

69. Just to make it visible . . . Which of the following is a real gun and which is airsoft?

Yeah, I know I posted this picture above, but before you pass judgment on an officer, let's see if you can tell the difference.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:54 AM

76. A buddy of mine likes to play those airsoft games

and he has a couple of airsoft rifles like the M-4 pictured at the bottom, they both had the same looks, weight, detail, etc.

Even though I knew they were airsoft rifles, it chilled me to see just how realistic looking these were to the real deal.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:33 PM

105. So, I'm gonna bet that the pistol with both the laser and the suppressor is an airsoft weapon.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:04 PM

134. Just a guess

The MP5 looking gun up top is airsoft. The left side 3 position safety means that this is either airsoft or a full-auto/burst real gun which would need special ATF tax, investigation and license. Just a guess.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 11:59 AM

78. The original UPI report is based on a statement released

By the Maryland State Police.
I am not impugning them or the officer involved. I simply do not know all the facts.

I AM pretty confident that sometimes some police may bend the facts. Sometimes. Probably not this time.

Can we hear the dispatch? Body cam video? Has anyone interviewed Mom?

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Response to Tbear (Reply #78)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:04 PM

83. All good points.

As it stands right now, it would seem to be a justified homicide, but let's see all the evidence come out and let the chips fall where they may.

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Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #83)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:08 PM

86. Justified according to the Maryland State Police initial statement

Just wanted to add a qualifier.

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Response to Tbear (Reply #86)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:10 PM

87. True,

and that's why I said seems to be.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:05 PM

84. It's the whole fucking gun culture we live in. What can be done? No much.

It's like Zero Population Growth. All I heard growing up. I had 1 kid, my brother had 1, my sister had. Then we stopped hearing it, my daughter had 5 kids (I wasn't allowed to raise her, oh well). Nothing accomplished there. The boomers tried so hard, then blew it off and reverted. I've always thought of Conservatives and Regressives anyway. Sorry, I'm babbling.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:22 PM

88. What is left to say at this point?

Condolences to his parents and relatives.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:56 PM

92. This thread is an embarrassment.

WTF people?

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Response to Mosby (Reply #92)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 12:57 PM

94. If it's an emmarrassment,

then why even respond to it?

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Response to Mosby (Reply #92)

Thu Apr 15, 2021, 11:01 AM

142. How so? The posters proposing such things as the police being restricted to rubber bullets, or

trying to shoot people in the arm rather than center of mass?

Silly stuff, but I wouldn't say it trashes the whole thread.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)


Response to stillcool (Reply #99)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:27 PM

101. Prediction- this won't age well

A 16-year old black teen...

is not a teen. He is a full-grown scary black man that needs to be gunned down on sight. If he were a 16-year old white boy they would have locked down the neighborhood, had a slew of cops at the scene, and walked him to the police car. The end. Much different ending, but the same old story.

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Response to stillcool (Reply #99)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:43 PM

108. Bingo!

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Response to stillcool (Reply #99)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:38 PM

135. He was white

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #135)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:50 PM

136. thank you for pointing that out...

should have looked first. Kind of makes it worse. It is just a matter of time before they expand their horizons.

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Response to Dial H For Hero (Original post)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 02:50 PM

110. From the St. Mary's County newspaper:

16-year-old shot, killed by trooper in Leonardtown

By Dan Belson db[email protected] 17 hrs ago

A 16-year-old is dead after police believed he was pointing a gun and wielding a knife just a few steps away from the Maryland State Police barrack in Leonardtown.

Peyton Ham, who lived in Leonardtown close to where the incident occurred, was taken to MedStar St. Mary's Hospital after being shot by a state trooper at about 1:30 p.m. on Tuesday afternoon, State Police Secretary Col. Woodrow W. Jones said at a press conference at the police station, and was later pronounced deceased.

{snip}

Police had received two separate 911 calls regarding Ham prior to the incident, where one caller said there was a "guy acting suspicious" who he said he believed had a gun before disconnecting, and another who lived near the barrack who said the same, Jones said.

The gun was revealed to be an Airsoft-type gun, which typically shoot plastic projectiles, after the shooting.

A trooper arrived and saw Ham holding what appeared to be a gun and a knife, Jones said, and a witness reported the trooper fired once after seeing Ham enter a shooting stance.

After the first shot, investigators believe Ham pulled out a knife and attempted to get up, Jones said. The trooper told him to drop the knife before he fired again. And then the trooper, who was not immediately identified by the agency, reported the shooting.

Jones said EMS and state troopers attempted lifesaving measures before Ham was transported to MedStar St. Mary's Hospital.

{snip}

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