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Sun Apr 11, 2021, 09:46 AM

Blinken Says China Let Virus Get 'Out of Hand'

Source: PoliticalWire


April 11, 2021 at 9:21 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

Secretary of State Antony Blinken criticized China’s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic in a Meet the Press interview, arguing that the country’s “failure” to cooperate in the early stages of the virus led to the situation getting “out of hand.”

Said Blinken: “I think China knows that in the early stages of Covid, it didn’t do what it needed to do, which was to, in real time, give access to international experts, in real time to share information, in real time to provide real transparency.”

He added: “One result of that failure is that the virus got out of hand faster and with, I think, much more egregious results than it might otherwise.”

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Read more: https://politicalwire.com/2021/04/11/blinken-says-china-let-virus-get-out-of-hand/

79 replies, 2894 views

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Reply Blinken Says China Let Virus Get 'Out of Hand' (Original post)
DonViejo Apr 11 OP
brewens Apr 11 #1
Warpy Apr 11 #37
TigressDem Apr 12 #56
Warpy Apr 12 #75
TigressDem Apr 14 #79
malaise Apr 11 #2
babylonsister Apr 11 #4
malaise Apr 11 #13
TigressDem Apr 12 #58
malaise Apr 12 #60
TigressDem Apr 12 #62
malaise Apr 12 #65
TigressDem Apr 12 #66
onetexan Apr 11 #26
Voltaire2 Apr 12 #53
dalton99a Apr 11 #6
HUAJIAO Apr 11 #7
onetexan Apr 11 #28
malaise Apr 11 #17
pandr32 Apr 11 #29
IronLionZion Apr 11 #31
Jetheels Apr 11 #34
slightlv Apr 11 #44
dalton99a Apr 11 #45
paleotn Apr 11 #40
getagrip_already Apr 11 #3
bamagal62 Apr 11 #30
Journeyman Apr 11 #5
SergeStorms Apr 11 #33
IthinkThereforeIAM Apr 11 #43
Baitball Blogger Apr 11 #8
JohnSJ Apr 11 #9
NickB79 Apr 11 #10
dalton99a Apr 11 #46
TigressDem Apr 12 #59
secondwind Apr 11 #11
dalton99a Apr 11 #15
TigressDem Apr 11 #25
Jedi Guy Apr 11 #52
TigressDem Apr 12 #55
Jedi Guy Apr 12 #68
TigressDem Apr 12 #70
Freethinker65 Apr 11 #12
dalton99a Apr 11 #36
Sancho Apr 11 #14
George II Apr 11 #16
TigressDem Apr 11 #18
TigressDem Apr 11 #22
TigressDem Apr 11 #19
llashram Apr 11 #20
Blues Heron Apr 11 #21
TigressDem Apr 11 #23
TigressDem Apr 11 #24
dalton99a Apr 11 #35
roamer65 Apr 11 #27
Maxheader Apr 11 #32
keithbvadu2 Apr 11 #38
TigressDem Apr 12 #57
ThatJustHappened Apr 11 #39
paleotn Apr 11 #41
OldCicero Apr 11 #42
MichMan Apr 11 #47
OldCicero Apr 11 #50
twodogsbarking Apr 11 #48
Buckeye_Democrat Apr 11 #49
ancianita Apr 11 #51
TigressDem Apr 12 #64
Voltaire2 Apr 12 #54
Ace Rothstein Apr 12 #61
TigressDem Apr 12 #63
ancianita Apr 12 #67
TigressDem Apr 12 #71
ancianita Apr 12 #74
Ace Rothstein Apr 12 #72
TigressDem Apr 12 #73
TigressDem Apr 12 #69
rlegro Apr 12 #76
Blasphemer Apr 12 #77
erpowers Apr 12 #78

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 09:51 AM

1. If it was a virus originating here the former guy and his collaborators would have immediately

issued warnings and allowed the WHO and China's virus expert full access. They would never have considered trying to cover anything up.

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Response to brewens (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:26 PM

37. We know for a fact the virus was here before it was detected in China

China was the first place to have a large enough cluster of cases with symptoms distinct from the flu to start asking questions.

The ball was dropped here, not there.

Blinken should stay out of medicine, he's not qualified in that field. I also think they've got some legitimate criticism coming for their bungling in Hong Kong because Xi was in too big a hurry to keep any of the promises made there, plus their treatment of the Uighurs.

Trying to criticize them over their handling of the virus only points out the glass house we're living in.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #37)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:54 AM

56. I don't remember it being proven to be here first. Do you have a link?

I know we had a small number of cases, but even then weren't they using the data from China to define it?

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Response to TigressDem (Reply #56)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 12:31 PM

75. It's not that it was here first, that is a misstatement. It was here before it was identified

Last edited Mon Apr 12, 2021, 01:23 PM - Edit history (1)

in China. Blood samples were examined several months after they were taken on Dec. 13, 2019 and the presence of Covid antibodies confirmed .

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/12/01/covid-cdc-study-says-virus-us-weeks-before-first-case-reported/6475864002/

Novel diseases usually circulate for many months or even years before there is a cluster of cases that catches the attention of epidemiologists.




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Response to Warpy (Reply #75)

Wed Apr 14, 2021, 03:48 AM

79. Ah, that makes sense. Takes time to spot the trend and verify it is "new"

You have to have cases to study that can't be solved against known virus patterns before it becomes a possibility that some new, unknown virus has emerged.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:00 AM

2. Really!

Then how come all of China is open and the US is still counting the dead.

Unlike Trump, China took it seriously and locked down the fucking place.

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Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:15 AM

4. They didn't share the info they had which might have

mitigated the damage here. Also, I think Asians are used to wearing masks; we're still fighting that fight.

But I don't have a clue if sharing info would have made it better here. This was new to everyone AFAIK.

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Response to malaise (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:08 AM

58. But when it comes to science and genome sequencing, that takes a minute, right?

They called our CDC on Jan 3rd when it started looking like something more than the flu, then they are in the thick of it for a week and send out what they have.

With it mutating as much as it is now, could it be that it was just hard to pin down?

Still better response rate than tRump sitting on the info he had and denying it over and over again.




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Response to TigressDem (Reply #58)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:13 AM

60. I am in agreement with you

The deaths in the US were caused by Trump and the rest of incompetents.
Further many of the persons with Covid entered the US from Europe and Britain, not China.

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Response to malaise (Reply #60)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:32 AM

62. Funny thing is I learn more when "fact checking" us than the other side.

At least on DU people deal in facts and work to line up time lines in a relevant fashion. But sometimes a text can be read more than one way.

I don't presume anyone guilty or innocent until I get the facts straight.

I just remember a chance encounter with a guy who was working in advanced genetics in the 90's and learning how "NEW", revolutionary and complex it all was at that time. I'm no scholar, but I find scientific advancement fascinating and my big take away was that it's amazing we ever unlocked DNA sequencing at all.

So from Jan 3 - Jan 11 didn't seem a "long time" for a breakthrough on a scientific front to me.

These days it seems we take science for granted and think a new field of study is just another big tool in the tool belt and expect it to work like a hammer to a nail. BOOM - DONE.

Ya' know what I mean?



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Response to TigressDem (Reply #62)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:58 AM

65. Yes these are complex matters

The real problem is when political expediency supersedes science.
Rather than blaming others, Trump and his incompetents should have put science first.
They should all be tried for genocide.

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Response to malaise (Reply #65)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:00 AM

66. Down post someone says this crises caused a new breakthrough. 24 hr genome sequencing is now a thing

BOOM there's the hammer.


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Response to babylonsister (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:10 PM

26. The chinese wear masks because its mandated & they dont have a choice.

Here its misconstrued by the RW as an infringement upon their personal liberty.

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Response to onetexan (Reply #26)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:29 AM

53. well sure but also in China, Korea and Japan masks in public are common.

so it was already culturally acceptable.

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Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:26 AM

6. +1. People seem to forget that they locked down 11 million people overnight in Wuhan

the military took over and built special hospitals - and anyone who escaped to other cities was practically imprisoned and treated like a leper.

They also analyzed and uploaded the virus' genome to the internet (the NIH server, in fact) for the world to see. During the lockdown, their doctors and scientists published dozens of papers - most were real-time, many were preliminary/inconclusive, but they did share their data and findings to the outside world.

The Chinese regime is a bunch of thugs, but their doctors and scientists at that time knew more about the disease than any foreign bureaucrat.

The key event for the explosive transmission in the U.S. was March 2020 when Trump let American travelers return from Europe through the 13 jam-packed airports.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:30 AM

7. Your last paragraph... bingo !!!

In fact your whole comment.. on the money...

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Response to HUAJIAO (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:16 PM

28. Yup we had a nincompoop for a leader. Therein lies the problem.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:10 AM

17. Yep

That's why they have reopened

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:22 PM

29. Agreed.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:00 PM

31. Correct, and their genome data helped the world develop vaccines

Last edited Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:38 PM - Edit history (1)

China handled their outbreak while Trump's administration actively encouraged the spread in the misguided belief it would dis proportionally impact democrats in cities.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:11 PM

34. And lying about everything he knew about it, proven by the Woodward tapes.

Also, why NYC was hit so hard, 3 international airports.

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #6)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:55 PM

44. Do you remember...

Do you remember the spate of "vape" deaths we had prior to the pandemic? I've always wondered if those were early indicators of Corona in the U.S. The presenting symptoms were similar, if not the same. And so much disparity among those who ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and on ventilators. I need to do some research and see if I can find that info from the Way Back Machine. My guts told me these two incidents were related the minute I heard about CV19.

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Response to slightlv (Reply #44)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 03:05 PM

45. You mean this paper?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03033-1
11 October 2019
Scientists chase cause of mysterious vaping illness as death toll rises


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Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:15 PM

40. They did what they needed to do to contain the contagion locally.

But coordination of info with other countries early on was spotty at best. Some of that was our own damn fault, due to Donnie Covid's admin mucking with our surveillance operation over there. Also, the Chinese could do what needed to be done without various psycho posses assaulting seats of government, like we saw in the US back in the spring, summer, fall.....well, you get the picture. Lockdown protests have been nil in China compared to the west.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:14 AM

3. We have to stop the "if they say it, it has to be wrong" nonesense.....

Look, I agree the former guy was criminally negligent in his actions and inactions in Covid response.

BUT... Criticism of china is still valid AND important. They are a hotbed of the viral hip-hop from animals to people. They need to up their game. They need to stop the secrecy and come clean. We still don't even have a clue how many of their people were killed.

And we as a group need to stop beating up messengers that happen to align with qop criticisms as long as they are valid and not racially centered.

We can do both.........

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:48 PM

30. I agree. China likely knew much more than expressed

Before they did their lockdown. They kept the 2002 SARS virus quiet until it escaped to Hong Kong. I remember, as I was living in HK at the time. Don’t think China told all right away. And, I imagine our idiot knew much more than we were told as well. There’s a lot of blame to go around.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:18 AM

5. Imagine, however, if the US had had a front line "Pandemic Response Team" . . .

Last edited Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:52 PM - Edit history (1)

set up in China, right near Wuhan, in fact, and they were able to see, first-hand, developments in the country, so as to get a foot up on any emerging viruses . . .

Ah, such dreams as were made in the Obama Era. No place for preparedness in the Realm of Trump. Far better to turn a blind eye in service of re-election than to be proactive in service to the world.

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:07 PM

33. I was wondering...

if anyone was going to remember that.

The regime of Premier Trump was totally transactional, and I'm sure someone in his regime saw the presence of that team of "scientists" as totally unnecessary, and not adding a single thing to Premier Trump's glory or re-election campaign. They had to go. Besides, they might interfere with Premier Trump's glorious trade war with CHY-NA (which he totally won, hands down) in some unimaginable way known only to Premier Trump. They were deemed totally unnecessary.

Yeah, if only we would have had some way of knowing what was happening at the moment the virus was taking off. But who?

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:51 PM

43. +1...


... correct. WE DID HAVE SCIENTISTS/TEAM there, but the former guy pulled them out a couple of years before this cycle of pandemics hit.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:33 AM

8. They were very proactive about circling the world to buy up PPE supplies.

And in our country, Pompeo helped them!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:47 AM

9. It is a valid point by Blinken, however, once the dangers of the virus were exposed to the world,

trump and his cronies did just the opposite of what needed to be done.

Trump and Bolsonaro were the worst, but Boris Johnson was dropped the ball initially also, and it was only when he contracted it himself and almost died, that he changed his tone


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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:49 AM

10. No matter what info China relayed, Trump would have downplayed it

The Woodward interview proved he knew early on this was far worse than a flu, yet he kept calling it a flu for MONTHS afterward. No calls to mask up, no calls for social distancing, calls FOR reopening lockdowns.

China should have been more forthcoming, but I seriously doubt it would have had a difference in the US, given our leadership at the time.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 03:19 PM

46. +1. If you see a tornado or hurricane coming, you don't want some asshole on TV telling people

the tornado is going to disappear


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Response to dalton99a (Reply #46)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:12 AM

59. Especially if he is the windbag whose hot air is spinning it out of control anyway. nt

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:51 AM

11. TRUMP is the number 1 reason we are where we are...


* Removed our scientists from the Wuhan lab

* Never took the virus seriously....

* Spread lies and downplayed the virus, etc

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Response to secondwind (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:07 AM

15. +1. The head of China's disease control agency personally called Robert Redfield on Jan. 3

The council was first notified of the outbreak on the morning of Dec. 31, according to one of the government officials involved, when an NSC official was forwarded an email from a Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) attache in Beijing that had been sent to senior HHS officials the night before.

The “pop-a-flare” notice, as it is known, described strange cases of pneumonia that could not be definitively traced to seasonal flu, said the government official, who saw the message. The email said the Chinese would soon be notifying the World Health Organization, the official said.

On Jan. 3, Dr. Gao Fu, head of China’s disease control agency, informed his U.S. counterpart, Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the CDC, in an emotional telephone call that the outbreak was growing out of control, according to the same federal official and a former NSC official. Both said they had been informed of the details.

Ullyot, the NSC spokesman, disputed the timeline, saying the council did not learn of the coronavirus outbreak until Jan. 3. The CDC, a part of HHS, confirmed to Reuters that it learned of an outbreak in late December and that the call with Gao occurred Jan. 3.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-nsc/as-trump-administration-debated-travel-restrictions-thousands-streamed-in-from-china-idUSKBN21N0EJ



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Response to secondwind (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:40 AM

25. OMG sick thought.... what if the US Scientists "removed" more than themselves from the Wuhan lab?

What if this was engineered by MF45 as THE greatest act of voter suppression in the history of the world?

Kill as many DEMS as possible and whoever else gets caught in the crossfire, so be it.

The rich will survive and that's all that matters to creeps like him.


NO. He's too stupid to plan that far ahead.


Right?


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Response to TigressDem (Reply #25)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 08:49 PM

52. That's some tinfoil-hat level nonsense right there. N/T

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #52)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:51 AM

55. Yeah, and I'm not usually like that.

I remember when there were discussions about 9/11 and it was put out there LIHOP - Let It Happen On Purpose, kind of ignored the signs but didn't actively engage and that I could believe. It's almost standard operating procedure for the Rethugs.

BUT when some people said MIHOP - Made It Happen On Purpose, I thought that was a bit much.

Thing is tRump is so much more aggressive and not following any social protocols or rules at all. He threw a mad mob at the capitol while being filmed on national TV.

MY BIGGEST doubt is that I trust scientists are acting on logic, not on party lines. Since they would have to been involved, it's very unlikely anyone who believes in facts would follow tRump.

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Response to TigressDem (Reply #55)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:04 AM

68. When it comes to nefarious shit and Trump, the will to do it is there. The ability... not so much.

As awful as the Trump years were, we should thank our lucky stars that he, and pretty much everyone around him, was utterly incompetent. I've no doubt that he would have done all manner of horrific things, but his malice was counterbalanced by his ineptitude. But even that's a double-edged sword. His ineptitude kneecapped his ability to do shady stuff, but also kneecapped his ability to do the job.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #68)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:17 AM

70. Except that he pulled people who KNEW how to do their jobs and Dumbed US Down to make it all worse.

Someone said he pulled the CDC rep in China OUT one month before Corona became a thing.

So did we see something BEFORE the Chinese did and tRump decided to make it fall all on them instead of thinking about how we could save lives?

I mean, if you put a 5 year old in charge of driving a Mack truck, is it really the 5 year old's fault if he crashes and burns?

This Rethug mentality of putting people in charge of important positions in order to hamstring the effectiveness of the entire operation is vile and shouldn't be allowed. Someone "in charge" should have to meet the basic criteria of the position or not be considered at all.

Dejoy as an example. He is wrecking the Postal System from the top down saying he is doing one thing but obviously doing the opposite.

AND it seems like those who have some level of competence, he finds dirt on them and gets them to fail anyway. Again standard MO for the Rethugs these days.

We can only counteract it when we have the majority, so then they tamper with the election process.

We clean up the mess.

They take credit for having a clean slate to start.

Then go about mucking it up again.

And blaming us for the mess they are making.

SO FRUSTRATING.






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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:53 AM

12. True. But it would have been harder to keep things secret had the US had scientists there observing.

Remember, Trump pulled the CDC, NSF, and USAID staff stationed in China that monitored and responded to potential events prior to the outbreak.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-slashed-cdc-staff-inside-china-prior-to-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKBN21C3N5

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Response to Freethinker65 (Reply #12)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:26 PM

36. +1. China's neighbors learned from the SARS fiasco and wasted no time in clamping down

as soon as they received reports from their own sources in China and started detecting cases - most notably South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:03 AM

14. Did the US "cooperate" on climate (which will also kill people)?

Did the US cooperate on immigration?

....well, you get the idea...the US team in China was shut down, and the Trumpers ignored the Obama plan for pandemics that was handed to them on a platter.

China is an easy political target, and they have an oppressive government. The Chinese may not even know themselves where the virus originated, but may also fear that it was a leak from one of their labs. By the time the virus was public knowledge, it had already spread (probably to Europe and the US based on analysis of blood samples months before the announcements).

I doubt there is any cooperation in the spring of 2020 that would have made much difference with MF45 still on the golf course surrounded by a basket of deplorable idiots. Blaming China a year later may get headlines, and maybe it's true they were not transparent. I don't see how much difference it would have made with the Orange Moron in office.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:08 AM

16. So did the idiot in the white house at the time.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:18 AM

18. Yeah, but if tRump had been able to interfere EARLIER with actually getting anything done....

Could have actually been worse for China.

Imagine if he'd stoked an "ANTI-MASK" campaign in China somehow.

IF we'd had a REAL leader in the White House, China would have been wise to open up, but I think they KNEW they would get NO HELP from US with tRump at the wheel.


AND they actually did much better than we have...

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?Si

Ranked by Total Cases

US #1 31,871,858

China #92 90,410

DESPITE POPULATION difference

US 332,505,583

China 1,439,323,776

TOTAL DEATHS

US 575,606

(Deaths per 1 million population..... US 1,731 vs China 3)

China 4,636

NEW DEATHS.... as of TODAY


US 11 (so far 10am CST)

China ZERO


China has been below 100 new cases from around Mar 2020, but got a recent spike on Jan 20, 2021 up to 130 new cases

US got a spike in Jan 2021 too. On Jan 8 there were 300,669 new cases. It actually went DOWN to 187,025 on Jan 20, 2021.


Active Cases

US 6,872,579

China 286




WHAT IS SO SAD is that even a TOTALITARIAN COMMUNIST REGIME realizes that allowing it's people to die like this is STUPID.

















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Response to TigressDem (Reply #18)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:26 AM

22. Total Deaths -- US 575,606 VS China 4,636

Deaths per 1 million population.....

US 1,731

vs

China 3


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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:22 AM

19. Blinken is FULL of S*** nt

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:25 AM

20. everyone can blame China

yet there are too many places in this world that can manufacture such a beastly virus. I just don't believe they did it. No matter what the experts have EVER said.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:26 AM

21. Is there even an iota of intelligence on what the situation is in China?

things like hospitalization overcrowding, coffin purchases, freshly dug graves, etc.. What is our best estimate of how they did that's based on facts. Bueller? We're being fed a rewrite here.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:30 AM

23. Despite being a totalitarian communist regime, they stomped Corona Virus down.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 11:34 AM

24. What can we learn from China's response? Monitor - Test - Treat ... ASAP

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00823-0/fulltext


After three COVID-19 cases were identified in October, 2020, in Qingdao, a pooled testing approach coordinated by the government with the cooperation of residents enabled 10·9 million people—almost the entire population of the city—to be tested within 5 days.






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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:20 PM

35. The real death toll was probably 10X the official number for Jan-Feb 2020

according to researchers who looked at deliveries and activity levels for funeral urn companies/crematories/funeral homes in the Wuhan area

It is fairly certain that the U.S. government was monitoring the situation by satellite. Plus, there were foreigners - including Americans - who decided to stay in Wuhan


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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:15 PM

27. All of this China bashing will lead us to war.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:06 PM

32. I just hope the fuck they know what they did wrong last time...



And don't do it again....

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:41 PM

38. Trump, not China, let it get 'out of hand' here in America.

Trump, not China, let it get 'out of hand' here in America.

It was down to almost zero and under control.

Trump just let it expand.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #38)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:03 AM

57. Exactly nt

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:50 PM

39. Pot Meet Kettle

Or to paraphrase Maistre
Every country gets the pandemic it deserves
The US included

Humans are far too primitive
To do the right thing

In just a few hundred years
We took a few-billion-year paradise
And turned it into a toilet
Decimating 10 million species in the process

Makes perfect sense that we'd destroy ourselves
Best thing for the entire biosphere
All things considered

Besides, there are an infinite number
Of other inhabited planets
And always will be
So it's no big deal really

These things happen
And them's the breaks

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:22 PM

41. More than enough blame to go around.

Lets fix the problem....it ain't fixed yet....then do the post mortem analysis. Please pardon the unintended pun.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:33 PM

42. Is Blinken a former guy hold over or something?

 

Why is he spewing reich-wing bullshit?

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Response to OldCicero (Reply #42)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 03:23 PM

47. He was nominated by President Biden as Sec of State in January and confirmed

Why would you think he was a RW holdover ?

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Response to MichMan (Reply #47)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 05:57 PM

50. Because he's spewing reich-wing bullshit?

 

-30-

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 03:50 PM

49. China was far more proactive than the USA.

Affected cities became like prisons over there.

They probably didn't need to fill their air with disinfectants, but they did that too.


On TV back then, I saw one passing Chinese man get sprayed right in the face by another one wearing a full protective suit! Maybe that was the sprayer's way of telling him to get back inside?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Apr 11, 2021, 06:42 PM

51. We'll never have another 2020, because the BEST thing we've gotten out of this

1. Our scientists and others around the world now can map every new virus within 24 hours;
2. Scientists all over the world have the CRISPR tech to input all new viral genetic maps so that vaccines can be developed even faster than they were for COVID-19;
3. We have the infrastructure for manufacturing and distributing enough vaccine to stop highly infectious viruses almost at points of entry, and through contact tracing so that there's only a cluster, not even an outbreak, or epidemic, or pandemic.

We've really learned a lot from the scientific and governing ends of it. We know enough now to be on top of all new viruses that rapidly spread globally.

We can thank Jennifer Doudna for breaking down the components of RNA, and that was the scientific work that enabled the already-existing CRISPR to work against viruses.

We'll never have another 2020 for the above reasons.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #51)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:52 AM

64. OMG a Genomic Microwave!! The RNA CRISPR lol

Our scientists and others around the world now can map every new virus within 24 hours


WOW... I was just saying in another post that science takes time and you can't always expect an instant result.
So that from Jan 3 to Jan 11 wasn't necessarily a "delay" since the science involved takes a LOT of time to get right.


BUT necessity IS the mother of invention and yet another woman of science Jennifer Doudna comes through in a time of dire need.


WOW. Just WOW.






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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:34 AM

54. Exclusive: U.S. axed CDC expert job in China months before virus outbreak

"Several months before the coronavirus pandemic began, the Trump administration eliminated a key American public health position in Beijing intended to help detect disease outbreaks in China, Reuters has learned."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-axed-cdc-expert-job-in-china-months-before-virus-outbreak-idUSKBN21910S

I am horrified that the Biden administration is continuing the bullshit anti-China campaign of the Trump administration.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:25 AM

61. Why the rush by so many posters here to defend China?

China isn't our friend. Just because Trump hated them doesn't mean we need to take a 180 degree approach.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #61)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 09:44 AM

63. Sometimes when you stand up for FACTS you stand beside an old enemy. Go figure.

I don't particularly want to "defend" China, but in this case they acted in their own self interest and followed basic protocol for containing the disease and did what they needed to do to keep it from killing half a million of citizens in their country.

It's crazy to look at the facts and realize we had such a stupid and malicious leader ignoring all pandemic protocol and science while at the same time the Chinese military lock down response actually made more sense in response to this kind of situation.

A broken clock is still right twice a day.






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Response to TigressDem (Reply #63)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:03 AM

67. Absolutely. The edge to gain is to know, twice a day, why and how the clock is right.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #67)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:27 AM

71. And they only way to KNOW is to follow the FACTS wherever they lead.

To not deny that it happens to coincide with someone's broken clock OR to worry why it does.

The FACTS are what is important.

You can buy a clock set to 5pm, with a saying "It's 5'oclock Somewhere" in order to justify getting drunk whenever you want to vs waiting for "Happy Hour" to do so. AND it's somewhat true and amusing on the surface and darkly true and sad underneath.

BUT that clock don't do diddly squat for telling time, so it isn't an effective time piece.

Reliance on science, honesty and a determination to do the best for ourselves and the greater world make DEMS the better party. When we stick to that we do great things. When we get caught up in fear and speculation, we get off track. Even me.

BUT still better to hash that out here with people who understand and make gentle course corrections.

PEACE.

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Response to TigressDem (Reply #71)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 11:34 AM

74. PEACE.

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Response to TigressDem (Reply #63)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:29 AM

72. But China's initial response was not good.

It isn't an either/or that Trump and China reacted poorly, just at different stages in the pandemic. In Trump's case pretty much throughout the entire duration. I also don't think a military lockdown would fly here nor should it. This virus has really shown an authoritarian streak around here.

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Response to Ace Rothstein (Reply #72)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:47 AM

73. "Good" is subjective and hindsite is 20-20. Jan 3-Jan 11 info shared by China are facts.

China is disinclined to put it's bad news out. We know that about them. But most countries are disinclined to put themselves in a bad light. China is simply more oppressive than most on a day to day basis.

Maybe they did hide some facts about how many died in their reporting, but they did work with science on the actual virus and shared within a week what they knew.

As a scientific timeline dealing with the enormity of what they were examining, WAS it really a delay or were they just busy solving it for themselves first? I don't know.

The GOOD news is that now we DO HAVE a way to sequence genomes in 24 hours. So going forward there is an actual benchmark to evaluate if a response is slow or not.

I am NOT saying the US should have gone lock down either. I just wish this whole MASKHOLE attitude wasn't started by MF45.

Quarantine for medical reasons IS pretty severe, but it would have been better to start with it quickly as a precaution to mitigate the need to shut the whole country down and might have saved thousands or hundreds of thousands of lives.

We wear seat belts, why not masks?

We go to the basement during tornado warnings. Why not quarantine during a pandemic?

We head to higher ground when floods are coming. WHERE IS THE HIGHER GROUND in this argument?

We need to be part of the solution, not spend our time perpetuating the myths that started the problem.

It's NOT a China Virus and even if it WAS, calling it that doesn't SOLVE anything.

Blaming China just gives people an excuse to go and beat up Asians.


That's why I prefer the facts be presented by our side.






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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:06 AM

69. IF you read the full article, this could be a way to keep China in line in other areas.

Now I don't necessarily agree with it, but it could be strategy to hold them somewhat accountable for the way we know they usually aren't transparent. And people say it's likely they under reported.

I guess in the final analysis, once the actual FACTS are all lined up, we will know one way or another.

It's STILL a step back from calling it "KUNG FLU" or the "China Virus".

Yes, maybe they sat on some information and we could have cleared this up sooner, but Biden administration isn't blaming China for US response, just dragging their feet a bit.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 01:27 PM

76. I do think Blinken had a valid point but....

1. It overstates Chinese "failure," since the country did inform world health authorities and publish the DNA sequencing it had accomplished, arguably speeding up vaccine development here and elsewhere.

2. It overlooks Trump's 2019 pullout of CDC staff in China. From Politifact: "According to the CDC, the program in China specifically charged with spotting new infectious diseases went from having four American staff in 2017 to none by 2019.

"It’s impossible to say with 100% certainty that if those Americans had been there, they would have been able to alert Washington earlier to an emerging threat. But not having them there eliminated that possibility." Politifact did not add, as have U.S. infection-disease professionals, that lines of US-China communication at the operational level were largely open, at least before that pullout. Would anyone doubt that Chinese officials were annoyed by Trump's trade wars and his constant wag-the-dog rhetoric and thus decided to let the U.S. unawares longer than necessary? That's on them, if so, but it's also on Trump for being such an asshole.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 01:40 PM

77. While China is often secretive, uncooperative, and unwilling to be transparent...

In this case, the real failure was the response of various nations (including ours) to the pandemic. China ultimately enacted appropriate public health protocols, as did other countries that had far fewer deaths than the U.S. Despite whatever flaws in China's initial response, I can't buy any argument that COVID "got out of hand faster" because of China.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Apr 12, 2021, 10:58 PM

78. This Nonsense Has to Stop

One does not have to be a fan of China to say that China is not the reason the Coronavirus got out of hand. The leaders of certain countries, who refused to take the necessary step to stop the virus from spreading in their countries are the reason the virus got out of hand. In the United States one of the main reasons the virus spread so much is Donald Trump's refusal to take the virus seriously and his refusal to tell his supporters to take the virus seriously. There have been numerous stories in which a Trump supporter stated they did not take the virus seriously and had friends, or family members over for a gather. After the gathering multiple friend, or families members who attended the event got sick from COVID-19. As a result of friends, or family members becoming sick from COVID-19, people who did not take the virus seriously began to take it seriously. How many people would have held off on having a gathering if Donald Trump had told people, especially his supporters, that the virus was serious, people needed to wear masks whenever possible, and not gather with friends and/or family.

I am not trying to cheerlead for China. However, we must be willing to blame the leaders of countries who claimed for months that the virus was not a serious issue, did not ask people to wear masks, and did not ask people to avoid large gatherings.

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