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Mon Mar 8, 2021, 01:54 PM

Joe Manchin pledges to block Biden's infrastructure bill if Republicans aren't included

Source: Yahoo News

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), America's ultimate swing voter, told me on "Axios on HBO" that he'll insist Republicans have more of a voice on President Biden's next big package than they did on the COVID stimulus.

The big picture: Manchin said he'll push for tax hikes to pay for Biden's upcoming infrastructure and climate proposal, and will use his Energy Committee chairmanship to force the GOP to confront climate reality.

Manchin, 73, said Biden expects, and understands, the pushback: "He's the first president we've had to really, really understand the workings of the Senate since LBJ."

Manchin said that with just a few concessions, it would have been possible to get some Republicans on the COVID relief package that passed the Senate this weekend on a party-line vote. And he said he'll block Biden's next big package ó $2 trillion to $4 trillion for climate and infrastructure ó if Republicans aren't included.

Read more: https://news.yahoo.com/joe-manchin-pledges-block-bidens-120433439.html



He's always been a moderate to conservative Democrat, but lately has done a plethora of things that we disagree with him on. I'm worried that he may be thinking of switching...

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Reply Joe Manchin pledges to block Biden's infrastructure bill if Republicans aren't included (Original post)
Polybius Mar 8 OP
jorgevlorgan Mar 8 #1
Trust_Reality Mar 8 #34
muriel_volestrangler Mar 8 #54
DownriverDem Mar 8 #72
McKim Mar 8 #81
True Blue American Mar 8 #87
muriel_volestrangler Mar 8 #83
bdamomma Mar 8 #97
pnwmom Mar 8 #60
jorgevlorgan Mar 8 #65
pnwmom Mar 8 #68
jorgevlorgan Mar 8 #69
radical noodle Mar 8 #71
jorgevlorgan Mar 8 #73
LenaBaby61 Mar 8 #2
PatrickforB Mar 8 #44
leftieNanner Mar 8 #61
TDale313 Mar 8 #3
Lokee11 Mar 8 #51
LenaBaby61 Mar 8 #105
asiliveandbreathe Mar 8 #4
OAITW r.2.0 Mar 8 #9
Lettuce Be Mar 8 #32
asiliveandbreathe Mar 8 #47
live love laugh Mar 8 #5
efhmc Mar 8 #6
turbinetree Mar 8 #86
efhmc Mar 9 #112
turbinetree Mar 9 #113
Ollie Garkie Mar 8 #7
CrispyQ Mar 8 #8
Me. Mar 8 #10
50 Shades Of Blue Mar 8 #11
LiberalLovinLug Mar 8 #12
Politicub Mar 8 #19
wryter2000 Mar 8 #49
OMGWTF Mar 8 #79
wryter2000 Mar 8 #92
Evolve Dammit Mar 8 #99
Politicub Mar 8 #100
wryter2000 Mar 8 #106
Politicub Mar 8 #107
Politicub Mar 8 #13
Mr.Bill Mar 8 #66
Bayard Mar 8 #14
Politicub Mar 8 #22
Texin Mar 8 #40
BootinUp Mar 8 #15
brush Mar 8 #16
wryter2000 Mar 8 #93
quakerboy Mar 9 #109
no_hypocrisy Mar 8 #17
LiberalLovinLug Mar 8 #41
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 8 #18
brush Mar 8 #24
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 8 #26
brush Mar 8 #30
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 8 #37
marie999 Mar 8 #50
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 8 #52
marie999 Mar 8 #55
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 8 #57
WHITT Mar 8 #20
EarlG Mar 8 #21
Wild blueberry Mar 8 #23
msongs Mar 8 #25
flibbitygiblets Mar 8 #27
Calista241 Mar 8 #28
George II Mar 8 #35
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 8 #38
Elessar Zappa Mar 9 #111
Evolve Dammit Mar 8 #29
AZSkiffyGeek Mar 8 #39
Joe Nation Mar 8 #31
George II Mar 8 #33
left-of-center2012 Mar 8 #36
Me. Mar 8 #43
LiberalLovinLug Mar 8 #59
left-of-center2012 Mar 8 #62
LiberalLovinLug Mar 8 #78
kairos12 Mar 8 #42
Marthe48 Mar 8 #45
PatrickforB Mar 8 #46
matt819 Mar 8 #48
wryter2000 Mar 8 #53
mezame Mar 8 #56
Vinca Mar 8 #58
oldsoftie Mar 8 #63
drray23 Mar 8 #64
Politicub Mar 8 #70
bigtree Mar 8 #67
PA_jen Mar 8 #74
OMGWTF Mar 8 #75
Marthe48 Mar 8 #76
PSPS Mar 8 #77
Montauk6 Mar 8 #80
PoliticAverse Mar 8 #82
EarnestPutz Mar 8 #84
BlueIdaho Mar 8 #85
EarnestPutz Mar 8 #88
BlueIdaho Mar 9 #110
EarnestPutz Mar 15 #115
bucolic_frolic Mar 8 #89
jmowreader Mar 8 #90
LiberalFighter Mar 8 #91
niyad Mar 8 #94
modrepub Mar 8 #95
C Moon Mar 8 #96
NEOBuckeye Mar 8 #98
Killer of Radio Star Mar 8 #101
niyad Mar 8 #102
EndlessWire Mar 8 #103
hadEnuf Mar 8 #104
rpannier Mar 9 #108
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 9 #114

Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 01:57 PM

1. Does he not get that Republicans have no intention to vote for any of it

...regardless of what the bill looks like?

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:45 PM

34. I think you are correct.

Why doesn't he focus on what needs to be done rather than this bipartisanship ideology?

He's playing the game of politics rather than doing what needs to be done.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:20 PM

54. Especially if Manchin will "push for tax hikes".

I just cannot see why he thinks he has a coherent strategy. He appears to be saying "I have a completely unrealistic idea of how Republicans behave, but I want the Democrats to join me".

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #54)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:21 PM

72. What it's about

Manchin comes from the very red state of WV. He is up for reelection in 2024. His last election was won by less than 50%. He's looking ahead to hoping to win again.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #72)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:57 PM

81. They don't need infrastructure in West Virginia?

They don't need infrastructure in his state? This just dumb.

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Response to McKim (Reply #81)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:21 PM

87. The Governor said the roads

In WV were in terrible condition. He was also for the Covid bill. Many Republican Governors were.

Another retirement today. Blunt from Missouri.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #72)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:06 PM

83. I don't think pushing for tax hikes would help him in West Virginia

and I find it hard to believe that he thinks it either. Is it that he thinks sabotaging the bill will help him win? Make it impossible to pass, and then blame everyone else?

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #72)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 07:21 PM

97. So why

not give the people of West Virginia a better quality of life? They will reciprocate and vote to re-elect him.

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:39 PM

60. The article title doesn't accurately reflect what he said.

He mentioned giving the R's a month to negotiate with them. That's not forever, and it's not a veto.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #60)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:57 PM

65. True, but they have had 11 years and refused to negotiate on anything.

What's a month gonna do?

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Response to jorgevlorgan (Reply #65)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:00 PM

68. A month gives Manchin a chance to say, "Oh well, we tried." n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #68)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:06 PM

69. ...



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Response to pnwmom (Reply #68)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:12 PM

71. Exactly....

And 30 days isn't that long to negotiate on infrastructure.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #71)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:29 PM

73. We've been bringing it up and being shut down for 11 years. At this point, I would say 2 days is too

long.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 01:57 PM

2. I'm worried that he may be thinking of switching...

Manchin has way too much power. It's disgusting.

Too Bad Al Franken was Frankened.

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:02 PM

44. Indeed. We could definitely use Franken in the Senate. nt

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:40 PM

61. Why would he switch?

Then he would be just another Republican under Mitch's thumb. This way he gets to be a big cheese.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 01:58 PM

3. Make him irrelevant in 2022.

Letís get enough Senate seats that he canít hold us hostage.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:17 PM

51. +1

🤞


✊!

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 09:12 PM

105. "Make him irrelevant in 2022."

Thing is, if the Dems don't pass HR 1 and the GQP keeps passing insane voter suppression legislation where Dems are concerned, and passing legislation where Dems find it even tougher to vote 2022, 2022 may be a blood bath for Dems, as they may lose the House and Senate, and if that happens, Pres. Biden won't get shit done. You see him struggling to get things done NOW. Also, what if Manchin steps in and threatens to stop the HR1 because he says some shit like "We need to work together." HOW in hell would that be possible, because it's the GQP whose fucking everything up by trying to drop an atomic bomb into the middle of what is left of our democracy.

Dems are up the shit creek with NO paddle in sight with Manchin playing a raging, crazy, drunk with power Dino in the party.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:02 PM

4. For me, the infrastructure bill should be sold as JOBS JOBS JOBS

Let's all see how the senators vote on killing a JOBS bill....talk about a huge employment opportunity for the American people - Corporations should be on board - and work as a team public and private cooperation..just sayin'

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Response to asiliveandbreathe (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:09 PM

9. Agreed.

Push for a Senate vote on Infrastructure. Make the Republicans vote against it.

By Manchin's logic, Senate might as well recess until 2022 because the Republicans will never sign on to a bill that will help Americans as it indirectly helps Democrats.

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Response to asiliveandbreathe (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:42 PM

32. Absolutely agree -- this is a Job's bill and nothing else

Our infrastructure is crumbling and yet here he goes again. Requiring some repug support is basically voting no.

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Response to Lettuce Be (Reply #32)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:06 PM

47. When researching the building of the Hoover/Boulder Dam

Congressional approval and individual state cooperation were slow ..negotiating water rights with Western states..okay..21,000 men were employed..the dam would take only five years to build, its construction was nearly 30 years in the making. Our infrastructure, as you say, is crumbling..I would guess to say in every state..

The work in each state should already be assessed for needs..and be ready when the funding is available..like lets get our ducks in a row so to speak..

All employment needs, need to fit ALL diversity parameters..JOBS for everyone who wants one..

Private business should have their plans in order, as well..complete bids to be submitted to Dept of Interior..or whatever dept. is required to handle the bids..

Plans need to address fully climate rules and regulations, that meet Environmental standards..OSHA needs to be fully staffed..I see so many JOBS JOBS JOBS

Lastly, ALL monies spent, needs to be carefully monitored ..this is my biggest concern..and should be reported weekly, audit weekly..

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:03 PM

5. WTF 😳

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:05 PM

6. Manchin says he needs 30 days to work with "My" Republicans.

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Response to efhmc (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:20 PM

86. Okay I will ask how long has he been in the senate with these same republicans

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Response to turbinetree (Reply #86)

Tue Mar 9, 2021, 01:53 PM

112. Also if we had waited for his 30 days, Americans would not be getting any relief for another month

or more.

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Response to efhmc (Reply #112)

Tue Mar 9, 2021, 02:26 PM

113. Yepper spot on................

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:05 PM

7. Huh?

When have Republicans indicated they want to be included.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:09 PM

8. He will go from headlines to being a nobody if he switches parties.

I hope he realizes that. He would get a little fanfare the day he switches, but he would fade fast & probably be primaried.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:10 PM

10. If I was Biden I'd Try To Make A Deal With Governor Justice

so far the guy seems pragmatic and doesn't seem to care for Manchin who he called a politician. Right now he is advoating for still masking on and he was a fan of the stimulus. I'm betting he could get behind infrastructure.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:11 PM

11. But of course he does!

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:15 PM

12. I dont' think he'd switch, because then he'd be irrelevant.

Right now he's a big star. Everyone waits with baited breath on his decisions. He's a Kingmaker.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:21 PM

19. There are a lot of people who want to see bipartisanship.

I think it's a waste of time thinking it will happen, but I'm probably in the minority.

One of our older friends speaks wistfully, "about a time when the parties got along, and it wasn't so divided like it is now."

Now, I think he's full of shit, but there are a lot of people like him. I'm pushing 50, and it has always been divided as long as I have been paying attention.

I've seen the democrats gain and squander power before. I hope I don't see it again. I think we're off to a strong start. A lot of what Manchin says is politicking. He threw a tantrum about the minimum wage, but he ultimately voted for a very strong, liberal bill.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:16 PM

49. I'm 72

And it wasn't always like this. There were times when Republicans would compromise and vote with Dems. This goes back to Gingrich.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #49)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:49 PM

79. Nancy Pelosi was asked when politics in America turned into what it is today.

Her answer: Gnewt (sic) Gingrich changed everything.

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #79)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 06:14 PM

92. I was just looking up the passage of the civil rights acts in the 60's

The Dixiecrats staged a 60 day filibuster at one point. Only overwhelming Republican support got those acts passed. Not just a Mitt Romney or Lisa Murkowski here and there. Huge Republican support.

Edited to add: and in those days, you needed a 2/3 majority to break a filibuster. The votes were something like 70 to 30.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #49)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 07:25 PM

99. That is when this shit started.. Newt (serve your dying wife divorce papers in hospital) and DeLay

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #49)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 07:33 PM

100. I was a couple of years out of high school during the early Clinton era

I donít see that period of time as a golden age of compromise. It was more a product of brow-beating and political expediency.

Gay people like me were traumatized at the time by being used as political pawns. I remember a Republican Party threatening to push a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, with DOMA ending up being the compromise... and I guess it was a toxic display of bipartisanship.

And the trauma didnít stop. Donít-ask-donít-tell became the policy of the United States military.

I grew up fighting to survive not getting beat up, and graduate to a hostile political world that was bipartisan in its approach, I suppose, to make sure that LGBT folk did not have the same rights as others.

More compromises came. One of which, ďwelfare reform,Ē stopped help that people in poverty relied on, taking away their benefits after a set period of time. Clinton signed it. I remember, and it was touted as progress.

So forgive me if I donít have experience seeing Republican compromise when it comes to progressive priorities. It has been the democratic side voting with republicans. Technically compromise, I suppose.

Donít even get me started on the religious freedom restoration act, which is still causing problems for the gay community.

I guess the banning of assault rifles was a good compromise position. It wasnít lasting, though.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #100)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 10:20 PM

106. I would never suggest the Clinton years were golden

I was speaking more about the Eisenhower/Kennedy/Johnson years. However, all of those years were horrid for LGBT people. Itís only recently weíve become even somewhat willing to do the right thing for all our citizens in this regard.

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Response to wryter2000 (Reply #106)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 11:46 PM

107. I need to learn more about that time. I know about the

big beats of history, but it sounds like it would be worthwhile to read more about it.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:16 PM

13. The infrastructure bill will be a huge windfall for the states,

which may be what it takes to get it over the finish line.

The hard core states will never be on board with supporting a democratic-led bill, but there are some republicans who would love to take credit for big, beautiful bridges and modernized highways. These would be daily reminders of a senator's effectiveness.

But who am I kidding? The republicans will vote as a bloc because they are cowards.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:59 PM

66. They will call it

a blue state bailout.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:17 PM

14. Pretty full of himself these days

He likes the power.

Why is more attention not being paid to Sinema?

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Response to Bayard (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:26 PM

22. Sinema seems to be more of a dada-ist.

People pay attention, but don't know what to do with her performance art.

I'm still scratching my head at her thumbs-down piece. My first inclination is to think she took too much of something. Buy maybe she was reaching deep within in an attempt to reveal something deeper about herself.

She probably took too much of something, though.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:55 PM

40. He definitely likes the attention.

And I'm still baffled by Sinema's theatrics and her seeming flip-flop on minimum wage after having publicly stating (over the past decade) that the minimum wage should be raised.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:19 PM

15. Just a few concessions my @ss. Nt

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:20 PM

16. Is Manchin naive or just stupid? Republicans will do everything they can to stop...

a Biden infrastructure initiative because if it's successful they loses the mid-terms and 2024. They don't want inclusion in it, they want to blow it the hell up.

Gawd! How did get to be where he is with such a lack of perceptive, critical thinking?

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Response to brush (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 06:18 PM

93. He doesn't strike me as the sharpest mind in the Senate

Of course, there are very sharp minds in the Senate.

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Response to brush (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 9, 2021, 01:59 AM

109. Why do you assume he wants what you or any other democrat wants?

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:20 PM

17. Lucy, Charlie Brown, and the football

1. Democrats ask for Republicans input.
2. The bill is watered down and poorly funded.
3. The weakened bill is put up for a vote. None of the Republicans vote for it.
4. Dems canít pass even a weakened bill b/c Manchin wonít vote for it b/c Republicans wonírmt support it.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:56 PM

41. Or Lucy beats up on the ball, punctures and flattens it first.

The bill is watered down with inadequate funding + adding some Republican poison pill, like an exemption or loophole of some kind so that individual States have written authority to water it down themselves further to not only be useless, but harmful. They will then support it, enough to be passed.

Then, when things go bad for those Red States where this Democratic bill, without all the water, could have helped, the dominant RW media in those States indoctrinate the listeners that their misery is because of Democrats not doing enough to help them.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:21 PM

18. Where does it say he will block the infrastructure bill?

It says he will insist that Republicans have more voice. Nowhere does it say he will block it.

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:31 PM

24. You do understand republicans don't want inclusion, rignt?

They want to stop it completely so the Dems fail to pass a bill which will bring thousands of good jobs all over the country and lead to Dems winning the mid-terms and 2024.

That's what the real deal is.

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Response to brush (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:33 PM

26. So that means he's going to block the bill?

You're assuming steps that aren't being stated to attack a Democrat.

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #26)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:42 PM

30. Are you new to this? The repulicans whole game is to oppose...

whatever the Democrats propose. Did one republican senator vote for the covid relief bill that 75% of voters wanted?

No. So why do you think they're going to vote for a bill that will make a Democratic president look like the second coming of FDR, or like Ike and his successful and major infrastructure project: the building of the interstate highway system?

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Response to brush (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:52 PM

37. You do know that Manchin isn't a Republican right?

He never said he would block the bill. Just because Republicans will doesn't mean he will. But keep bashing him.

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #37)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:16 PM

50. He said he will block the bill if Republicans aren't involved.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #50)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:18 PM

52. Where?

He said he wants Republicans involved. Didn't say he would block it. Frankly I'd like half of Congress to take their jobs seriously enough to do something other than obstruct.

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Response to AZSkiffyGeek (Reply #52)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:24 PM

55. Axios on HBO.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #55)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:26 PM

57. Find the quote

The article is above.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:22 PM

20. Simple

Tell Machin to go ahead and work-up a bill with the Repubs, then bring it to the floor and let it be exposed as a corporate-welfare bill that even he'll be embarrassed to vote for, not to mention it would be DOA in the House.

Now what, Manchin?


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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:23 PM

21. This does create an interesting question

What does "include" mean to Joe Manchin?

Asked if he believes it's possible to get 10 Republicans on the infrastructure package, which could yield the 60 votes needed under normal Senate rules, Manchin said: "I sure do."

Except, as we all know, the modern Republican Party mantra is simply OPPOSE, OPPOSE, OPPOSE. Compromise is dead, because (almost) every single Republican Senator knows that it is more damaging to their future political prospects if they compromise with Democrats, than if they simply oppose everything the Democrats do.

The only way you could get 10 Republicans to vote on anything these days would be if Democrats ceded all power in the Senate, allowed the GOP to take the majority, and allowed them to write their own bill. Short of that, Republicans will vote for nothing that the Democrats propose. I mean the Covid relief bill was supported by more than 75% of Americans, and they still all voted against it.

But switching parties would likely be pointless -- yes, it would give Republicans control of the Senate, but then still nothing would get done. Democrats would likely filibuster any GOP legislation, and since we hold the House it would all go nowhere anyway. Plus, if he wants to get re-elected, switching parties might not be a very good idea for Manchin: he voted to convict Trump twice, and has voted for lots and lots of Democratic legislation in the past -- he would be extremely vulnerable in a Republican primary.

So what happens when Manchin discovers that he CAN'T get 10 Republicans on board the infrastructure package? Because the people of West Virginia still need that package passed in order to improve their lives.

Given that he did vote for the Covid relief bill -- which was some of the most progressive legislation passed in recent history -- because he knew his state needed it, and he did not want to go down in history as the person who killed it, I wonder what will happen when we have a solid Democratic infrastructure plan on the table and he realizes that he can't get any Republicans on board no matter what he offers them?

To be continued, I guess...

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:28 PM

23. Hey Manchin, try talking with RepuQlicans, see how well it goes

Then get back to us, if you have any "success."

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:33 PM

25. give repubs enuff graft, corruption, and theft opportunities and they will support infrastructure

bills. then again one guesses there are loads of corruption in these bills anyway

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:39 PM

27. Did I just hallucinate the dozens of "infrastructure weeks" we had during *'s reign of terror?

I believe it's fair to say that the R's have had a chance to provide their input.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:39 PM

28. This headline is a little misleading.

An infrastructure / climate bill cannot pass without 60 votes, which will require Republican support. It's not eligible for passing via reconciliation. Manchin has refused to consider removing the filibuster as a rule from the Senate.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:46 PM

35. Yes, it's not only misleading but it's a bit hysterical, he "pledged" to block any bill? No...

...he didn't raise his right hand and "pledge" anything. He said he wouldn't support it without republican support. But as you point out that's a moot point - the only way it passes is if it DOES get republican support anyway - with or without Manchin's vote.

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Response to George II (Reply #35)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:53 PM

38. Don't you know, "Don't bash Democrats" doesn't apply if you are from a red state nt

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #28)

Tue Mar 9, 2021, 01:09 PM

111. I believe infrastructure CAN be done through reconciliation.

Thatís what theyíre reporting at least.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:40 PM

29. JHC. Just switch parties already, or are you a mole??

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:54 PM

39. Because that will get an infrastructure bill through... nt

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:42 PM

31. Which party does Manchin think he belongs to?

I'm tired of this asshole. He did nothing in the minority except vote with Republicans. Now he wants to defend them. F his ass. We can live without him as his state of inbred morons who huff coal dust all day long.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:43 PM

33. Who writes headlines these days (not you, the Yahoo guy)? Manchin didn't "pledge"...sheesh...

Anyway, as far as Manchin being a Democrat, I wish everyone in the media didn't bash him all the time. If he is even thinking of switching, with all the trash that has been thrown his way the last couple of weeks, he just may get pissed off and do that.

On the other hand, I believe he has said several times over the years that he's a Democrat and has no interest in changing his party.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)


Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #36)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:01 PM

43. And Not The Dems?

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #36)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:35 PM

59. In some ways that is the silver lining for him running under the D banner

Personally, I think he should be primaried at the next possible opportunity, and I also believe that with the party behind them 100%, a more progressive candidate could win his seat. Look at Warnock, and especially Ossoff wins in Georgia. I think its foolish to continue living in fear of losing, and start believing in winning for a more moderate candidate. (I'd consider Manchin a conservative).

But Democratic leadership and DNC must stop wading into primaries to finance and help the more conservative incumbent candidate and helping to scare away the population from candidates who have the qualities of an Ossoff. I mean, if Democratic leadership projects the same kind of fear of progressives that their Republican colleagues do in a State, it will only perpetuate that fear in the registered Democrats in that State.

All of that said,
IF, and while, we have to have these Blue Dogs like Manchin on the team, one silver lining is that he, and the other conservatives Dems, help to defeat the talking point of Republicans that Democrats are all radical lefties. Simply that someone who holds such conservative views IS accepted as a Democrat can work optically at least, in our favour. I'm scraping the barrel to find a positive here, but it is something.


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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #59)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:48 PM

62. "he, and the other conservative Dems"

The Tv hosts kept referring to him as a 'moderate Democrat'.

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #62)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:48 PM

78. Yeah, well, I don't succumb to the "new normal"

Of redefining the definition of "moderate" that has been perpetrated by a lazy monopoly of wealthy news networks, after the Democratic leadership, who formed the DLC, in Bill Clinton's term, pushed the party to the right. Politically, it was brilliant. They began to steal more corporate donors from the R's.

Republicans, instead of fighting for that moderate, balanced position, just simply moved even more right into crazy land, as Jon Stewart put it. Making it even easier for more conservative Democrats to be accepted into the D party, as they moved to fill in the "moderate" vacancy left open by Republicans.

But practically, it began to diminish and ostracize the left of the party. Even though the Democratic left, in any other western country, would be the middle ground politically. Same holds true today. Someone like AOC is absolutely hated and smeared as some Marxist radical, when what she wants is actually very much in line with most western democracies, even those with conservative administrations. Some kind of single payer basic healthcare, and having a plan to fight climate change.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 02:58 PM

42. 2009 taught us the Reich Wing will never vote for any Democratic idea

no matter how much of their input is incorporated.

Manchin thinks he's President.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:05 PM

45. Stop playing politics and do your job

He is doing no good, and turning into a drama junkie while he's at it.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:05 PM

46. While, like many on here, I am not particularly thrilled with Sen. Manchin,

I expect the Biden administration has a plan for whipping the vote. Let's wait until it comes up and see what happens.

Higher in this thread there is a suggestion that we promote the infrastructure package as JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, which is true, and which I expect will happen.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:08 PM

48. He can't be that stupid

Republicans will not vote for anything Biden proposes or anything the Democrats support. There is no plan for Republican unity. That's a given. Any fucking moron knows that. How can he use that condition as, well, as a condition? If he does that, he'll oppose any and all legislation.

So, the question is, what's he after?

So, previously we had McConnell deciding what legislation is going to be considered. Now there's Manchin doing the exact same thing. This is no way to run a democracy.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:18 PM

53. Ha!

I want to see him force the Republicans to face reality. Maybe that will make Manchin face reality...about the Republicans.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:24 PM

56. STOP Hating on Manchin!

Christ and FFS people, he is not in collusion with the R's. This is a smart play for us, because he knows this bill will (also) be popular in R states, and those constituents will be pounding on R doors to cooperate and get it done.

Manchin will absolutely get R support on this. Now...when the gears finally stop turning on it, the bill may not actually get any R support regardless of good intentions, that may be so. But for the love of anything you hold dear, would you all please take a chill pill and drive further than the front of your nose.

I'm all for letting him go at it and see how this plays out. But all this fussin' and quaking-in-my-boots kinda nonsense serves no purpose. Just gets ya'll worked up over nothing.

I have spoken.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:32 PM

58. I would like to remind Manchin that including Republicans - "bi-partisanship" - does not mean

doing whatever Republicans want. They've made it pretty clear they don't intend to support anything Biden does - kind of Obama Part II. Manchin's been around a long time. He should know better.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:53 PM

63. I want to see a TRUE infrastructure bill; not some pork-laden bullshit.

Our electrical grid needs upgrading & hardening. Roads, bridges airports (and the ATC system) & existing transit. Dont push the bullshit like a rail line from Orlando to Tampa.
When it comes to climate issues, if it doesnt include nuclear power its a half assed attempt.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:54 PM

64. his statement needs to be parsed carefully.

He did not say he would block the bill. He said he would insist that republicans are part of the process meaning, commitees and amendments and so on. He said he would consider modifying the fillibuster and/or allowing votes with a nuclear option if we have exhausted all the other options first (that is, getting the republicans involved).

Manchin is a politician. The way he says things matter.




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Response to drray23 (Reply #64)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:07 PM

70. That's how I understood it as well. He wasn't declarative on making

the filibuster sacrosanct. That gives him wiggle room.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 03:59 PM

67. what a stupid statement

...he doesn't seem too politically bright.


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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:32 PM

74. He's going screwed the stimulus for broadband incentive

What is he going to do to this bill?

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:42 PM

75. I'm a life-long peacenik, but I really want to take Joe Manchin out behind the barn

Is it his ego that makes him ignore the damage the GQP have done and how disloyal they are to our country? Their words mean nothing. They water every bill down and then still vote NO. Dems should 100% go for what we want, which is to help Americans recover from the latest GQP flogging and fleecing. These are dangerous people who clearly DGAF about us; witness >530K dead from Covid-19, economic disaster, and they still vote NO for any relief.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:44 PM

76. Senator Byrd (D-WV)

Got Interstates, yes more than one, routed across WV. Not only did he get them routed across WV, they were laid out so that when you get to Charleston, you have to pay a toll, no matter which way you come from. It was a brilliant move that helped Byrd's home state and continues to add money to the state coffers. Compare that to manchin's standing in the way of actions that will help his state, help the people he represents. How he was elected, I'll never understand.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:44 PM

77. "Manchin said he'll push for tax hikes to pay for Biden's ... proposals"

That works for me. Undo the Bush and trump tax giveaways to the plutocrats. Remember that there's at least $23 trillion in untaxed wealth in offshore banks and the billionaires pay almost no taxes as it is now. If money is needed, go where the money is to get it.

The republicans will never stand for doing this, of course, but Manchin will be able to say that he gave them a chance to be serious about governing.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 04:51 PM

80. Lemme ask you folks something please....

When the Republicans forced through Amy Coney Barrett to the SC, how many demanded that Manchin and other Democrats have more of a voice? Or any Republican package/appointments/initiatives for that matter?

Look, if McMansion wants to cosplay conservatives, fine but why does HE feel the need to cape for them so bad? They're pretty scrappy in their own right, I'm sure they can fight their own battles.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:01 PM

82. Rather than thinking of switching I think he's just enjoying his time in the spotlight. n/t

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:06 PM

84. Manchin knows that the Senators from Idaho, Wyoming, Mississippi and other states that....

.....are deep red, are going to want roads, bridges and airports in their states and we can demand support for the end product spending bill if it includes their wish list items. It's different than Obamacare, where we made concessions to the right and still had no repub votes.

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Response to EarnestPutz (Reply #84)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:10 PM

85. Never underestimate the stupidity of Idaho's Senators.

They will gleefully reject any sort of progress in infrastructure for party purity. You should see what Idaho state legislators are doing right now. They hate the people of Idaho.

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Response to BlueIdaho (Reply #85)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:24 PM

88. I guess that I'm just being optimistic. I don't live in Idaho, but I can see it from my back porch..

....here in Spokane and I do know what a pair of reactionary nutjobs you poor folks have in Risch and Crapo. They truly do hate their own people, but considering that some hope that North Idaho will be a whites only citadel of "freedumb" in the future, I must admit that sometimes I share in their feelings. Particularly when the morons from Post Falls cross the border and refuse to wear masks.

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Response to EarnestPutz (Reply #88)

Tue Mar 9, 2021, 12:21 PM

110. Howdy Neighbor!

Itís amazing isnít it? Though Iím not sure the Spokane Valley is much better when it comes to politics - the difference in mask compliance is night and day. Just know there are a growing number of Democrats pushing back against the Trumpian mouth breathers here.

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Response to BlueIdaho (Reply #110)

Mon Mar 15, 2021, 07:57 PM

115. Great. Keep fighting the good fight. Hard to imagine that the Idaho Voters who once elected.....

......Cecil Andrus and Frank Church would devolve into idiots who have sent Steve Symms, Larry Craig and (my all-time personal favorite moron) Helen Chenowith to congress. Oh, and you're absolutely right about the Spokane Valley and the jerks who want leave Washington and create their own new state.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:37 PM

89. I think Nixon understood the Senate pretty well

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 05:57 PM

90. If he and Biden can convince McConnell to not allow filibusters, it might have a chance

However, since the Republicans in the current Senate would filibuster a pizza order, I'm not hopeful.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 06:08 PM

91. He needs to use a different messaging.

He should make sure to include that states controlled by Republicans will be receiving the same benefit as those controlled by Democrats.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 06:23 PM

94. I nearly spit out my coffee at this line: he plans to use being chair of the Energy Comte. To FORCE

the gqp to confront the reality of climate change!!! Is he high?? Delusional? Brain dead??

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 06:35 PM

95. How About Red States Actually Chip In and Pay For Their Own Infrastructure

That would be "included" in my book. Highway funding always seems to happen in sparsely populated areas of my states.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 06:42 PM

96. Maybe he's got Russian money behind him, too.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 07:22 PM

98. Fuck this guy

Seriously. Fuck him.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 07:40 PM

101. Asshole!

 

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 08:35 PM

102. Hey, Joe, the gqp had FOUR YEARS to put forward an infrastructure plan. Nothing. So, seriously,

WHY the F'n HELL should we pretend that they actually care?

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 09:01 PM

103. Let's take the 30 days

to form a committee to investigate where the One Billion Dollars plus One Million Bucks that the Saudis pledged to Trump and Ivanka actually went...That was for INFRASTRUCTURE, and Ivanka's "charity"...

Did the Saudis renege on that pledge, or did it go into Trump's pockets? I always thought that it was weird, another country caring about our infrastructure.

I'm not sure what political ploy Manchin is playing, but I now consider him to be a closet Repub. All you can do is respect the process, but we all know that Repubs are obstructionists, and it's Party Over Country with them.

I don't care about Manchin's personal agenda. I'm tired of hearing his name. McConnell must be laughing all day.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Mon Mar 8, 2021, 09:11 PM

104. Every Democrat who is a Democrat knows it is absolutely useless to try and work with the GQP

on anything.

Manchin is looking like Joe Lieberman.

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Tue Mar 9, 2021, 12:58 AM

108. He won't switch parties

He's had ample opportunity over the years and didn't
He could have been easily re-elected last time had he run as a Republican, but chose not to

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Response to Polybius (Original post)

Tue Mar 9, 2021, 04:54 PM

114. What if they're given the opportunity to participate and refuse?

Which is the most likely scenario considering past action.

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