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sabra

(30,406 posts)
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 04:12 PM Dec 2020

House conservatives urge Trump not to concede and press for floor fight over election loss

Source: CNN

(CNN)President Donald Trump's staunchest defenders on Capitol Hill are urging him not to concede even after President-elect Joe Biden wins the Electoral College vote next week, calling on their party's leader to fight for his unsubstantiated claims of widespread election fraud all the way to the House floor in January.

...

But conservative House Republicans argue that next week doesn't mark the end of Trump's desperate efforts to overturn the election results, which he has failed to do through scores of fruitless lawsuits and brazen efforts to pressure state and local leaders to subvert the will of voters and appoint new slates of electors to the Electoral College. They said that Congress should engage in a full-throated debate over the results in key states because of their allegations of fraud, which have yet to be borne out in court.

Asked if Trump should concede next Monday, Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio said bluntly: "No. No way, no way, no way."

"We should still try to figure out exactly what took place here. And as I said that includes, I think, debates on the House floor -- potentially on January 6," Jordan, a trusted Trump confidant, told CNN.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/politics/house-republicans-trump-biden/index.html

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House conservatives urge Trump not to concede and press for floor fight over election loss (Original Post) sabra Dec 2020 OP
So, nothing better to do than beat a dead horse? underpants Dec 2020 #1
They are NOT conservative, elleng Dec 2020 #2
No, they are reactionaries. Radicals try to get to the root (radix) of a problem. These little niyad Dec 2020 #21
No , they ARE NOT "REACTIONARIES"...... AZ8theist Dec 2020 #48
Thank you. You are, of course, correct. niyad Dec 2020 #51
Nothing personal, I'm just sick of the narrative in this country. AZ8theist Dec 2020 #55
I do understand. You are correct. We lucked out this time, barely. niyad Dec 2020 #57
I agree. I don't understand the reluctance of Democrats to call Roisin Ni Fiachra Dec 2020 #52
Correct. LastDemocratInSC Dec 2020 #23
Came here to say this. mahina Dec 2020 #24
Show us one piece of legitimate evidence of actual fraud on a scale beyond 1 person Biophilic Dec 2020 #3
Gym Jordan is a Putin stooge. pwb Dec 2020 #4
Jordan is another coach that apparently doesn't believe in sportsmanship. Kobra Kai asshole. Midnight Writer Dec 2020 #5
"conservatives" is a long misnomer. Cha Dec 2020 #6
And crackpot fascists to boot! ananda Dec 2020 #25
They are really fearful of what is going to be uncovered. nt Gore1FL Dec 2020 #7
+1 byronius Dec 2020 #31
Fuck that asshole Jordan Ohiogal Dec 2020 #8
hey fascist pig putin agents, what "took place" was a democratic election by the people regardless yaesu Dec 2020 #9
How many more million votes would Biden have won by if not for Old Terp Dec 2020 #10
Insurrection. Period. NM Grins Dec 2020 #11
How can the House Reputins call for any debate poli-junkie Dec 2020 #12
That's when Pence EndlessWire Dec 2020 #16
There are special provisions when Congress comes together to receive the votes from the Electors BumRushDaShow Dec 2020 #17
It happened in '04, with Rep. Steph Tubbs_jones (OH) and Sen Barb Boxer. Mc Mike Dec 2020 #32
Yup and it even happened after the 2016 election BumRushDaShow Dec 2020 #36
Thanks for the link. I missed that in '16. Mc Mike Dec 2020 #66
Expect the GOP to do the same thing this go-around BumRushDaShow Dec 2020 #67
They definitely have some loon senators in their caucus. Mc Mike Dec 2020 #68
There were legit objections in 2000 BumRushDaShow Dec 2020 #69
I saw that montage of objections, a few years after it happened. Mc Mike Dec 2020 #70
Have to be a CSPAN junky like me and see them "live" BumRushDaShow Dec 2020 #71
You come up with some good info, that way. Mc Mike Dec 2020 #72
Nazis go home. /nt bucolic_frolic Dec 2020 #13
Potentially on January 6th. EndlessWire Dec 2020 #14
Doesn't work that way. There will be no SCOTUS involvement in congressional procedures Fiendish Thingy Dec 2020 #30
Not for sure EndlessWire Dec 2020 #49
SCOTUS has no jurisdiction re: actions taking place on the floor of congress Fiendish Thingy Dec 2020 #56
No, we're talking about Jan. 6th n/t EndlessWire Dec 2020 #60
So am I. 1.objection 2. Debate 3. Vote 4. Objection not sustained 5. President Biden. Fiendish Thingy Dec 2020 #64
OK EndlessWire Dec 2020 #65
WTF ! These mental defectives need to move to North Korea mdbl Dec 2020 #15
I think you mean North Korea? LisaL Dec 2020 #18
Thanks for the correction. I did mean North. mdbl Dec 2020 #20
What have you got against South Korea? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Dec 2020 #19
So Jordan and Gaetz, maybe Carter and Biggs. The rest? ancianita Dec 2020 #22
Like Ben Franklin said " All Republics end in dictatorship ." 240 years and it's all over folks . geretogo Dec 2020 #26
This one little sentence is what I am afraid of: patricia92243 Dec 2020 #27
Seems to me freepotter Dec 2020 #35
Fourth Reich. jeffreyi Dec 2020 #28
Take it away, McCoy! Kev N Dec 2020 #29
Time to take them out of the picture. the Speaker should have them removed. Historic NY Dec 2020 #33
She can't. By law, if one House member and one Senator objects to counting a state's electoral vote onenote Dec 2020 #46
Yea, whatever. paleotn Dec 2020 #34
I hope Nancy tells him there's nothing to debate Biden won and that's that. blueinredohio Dec 2020 #37
She can't. It doesn't work that way. See post #42. onenote Dec 2020 #43
Are "debates" a method of counting votes? You know what happened? Trump LOST. Go HOME! bucolic_frolic Dec 2020 #38
See post #42. onenote Dec 2020 #44
I'm tired of this media bullshit - the fuckers are insurrectionists, pure and simple, time for law bringthePaine Dec 2020 #39
We need to act like Republicans: get a bunch of guns and go protest outside Jordan's home TeamPooka Dec 2020 #40
Certainly am grateful nothing catastrophic is happening in the country while this foolishness is Rural_Progressive Dec 2020 #41
The Republicans will make a mockery of the process, but won't change the outcome. Here's the process onenote Dec 2020 #42
Excellent description of the process. AZ8theist Dec 2020 #50
GAWD i hate these people. nt barbtries Dec 2020 #45
Dumbasses Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2020 #47
To Jacket Off Gym Jordan: Happy fucking holidays, asshole. Enjoy the virus and your loser fuerher. Evolve Dammit Dec 2020 #53
Doesn't matter whether he concedes or not. He lost. One way or another he's out 1/20. Vinca Dec 2020 #54
Ahhh...so this is what they are angling for...why goprs haven't acknowledged the loss. They intend wiggs Dec 2020 #58
besides everything that's already been said, Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2020 #59
Can you even begin to imagine AirmensMom Dec 2020 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author cab67 Dec 2020 #62
He gets knocked down, and he keeps getting knocked down again. You ain't never gonna keep him down. Initech Dec 2020 #63

niyad

(122,039 posts)
21. No, they are reactionaries. Radicals try to get to the root (radix) of a problem. These little
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:41 PM
Dec 2020

authoritarian wannabes just want to go back to some fictional time in their minds when their world was what they wished it to be.

AZ8theist

(6,625 posts)
48. No , they ARE NOT "REACTIONARIES"......
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:37 PM
Dec 2020

THEY ARE FASCISTS AND NAZIS.

UN AMERICAN SCUM.

TRAITORS.

AND VIOLATERS TO THEIR OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION.

This needs to be repeated, ad nauseum, EACH AND EVERY FUCKING DAY until this country wakes up to stop the coming dictatorship.
Before it's too late.

AZ8theist

(6,625 posts)
55. Nothing personal, I'm just sick of the narrative in this country.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 08:10 PM
Dec 2020

Unless we prosecute ALL of these TRAITORS, we are only setting ourselves up for something WORSE in 2024 or 2028.

We should be very thankful that the current dictator wanna-be is the DUMBEST IMBECILE IN HUMAN HISTORY.

Next time, we won't be so lucky. An intelligent Fascist will arise with lessons learned.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
52. I agree. I don't understand the reluctance of Democrats to call
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:51 PM
Dec 2020

fascists what they are. They are fascists.

It's dangerous crazytown to not recognize them for what they they are, and identify them as such. Not speaking the truth about them is a big part of how we got to the point of almost having our democracy overthrown by fascists.

LastDemocratInSC

(3,937 posts)
23. Correct.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:51 PM
Dec 2020

They conserve nothing by causing constant chaos, overturning norms and traditions. They are professional malcontents.

mahina

(19,383 posts)
24. Came here to say this.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:54 PM
Dec 2020

I don’t know how anyone could call them conservative. By what definition? The don’t conserve, they destroy.

yaesu

(8,534 posts)
9. hey fascist pig putin agents, what "took place" was a democratic election by the people regardless
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 04:35 PM
Dec 2020

of the many dirty tricks you fascist repukes pulled to try to stop it.

Old Terp

(466 posts)
10. How many more million votes would Biden have won by if not for
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 04:57 PM
Dec 2020

Voter suppression in multiple states, the problems with the Post Office in various swing states, reducing voting sites, days available for early voting and other methods to make voting harder?

EndlessWire

(7,463 posts)
16. That's when Pence
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:23 PM
Dec 2020

counts the votes that the Electors will cast on December 14th. So, when Trump comes up short, they are allowed to object.

It happened in 2016, and will happen again. They know he lost, or they are very stupid, and they have a plan. It's hard to imagine that they will stand down. I hope that one of the networks covers it gavel to gavel.

We have seen that Trump expects quid pro quo from all those that he helped. So, he will expect the SC to declare him the winner.

Hard times.

BumRushDaShow

(146,932 posts)
17. There are special provisions when Congress comes together to receive the votes from the Electors
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:29 PM
Dec 2020

and all it needs is one objection from an elected official in either chamber. However after that whole process with debate and whatnot, they would need to vote if both chambers object and the House will not go along with that nonsense. The end.

It happened in 2001 believe it or not -

Over Some Objections, Congress Certifies Electoral Vote

By Alison Mitchell

Jan. 7, 2001


The rancor lingering from the bitterly contested presidential election spilled over during a joint session of Congress today, forcing Vice President Al Gore to gavel down black House members time and again in order to make official the election of his opponent, George W. Bush. Congressional certification of the Electoral College vote is usually quick and routine. But nothing has been ordinary about the November election that will result in Mr. Bush being sworn in this month as the first president since Benjamin Harrison in 1888 to win the Electoral College but lose the popular vote.

Today, for nearly 20 minutes in the cavernous House chamber, a dozen members of the Congressional Black Caucus, joined by a few sympathizers, tried in vain to block the counting of Florida's 25 electoral votes, protesting that black voters had been disenfranchised. Florida's highly contested electoral votes were crucial in Mr. Bush's victory after a prolonged legal and political battle following an inconclusive election.

Federal law requires a member of both the House and the Senate to question a state's electoral votes in writing for a formal objection to be considered. But the House members had no Senate support. So Mr. Gore, who was presiding in his role as Senate president, slammed down the gavel to silence them and rule their objections and parliamentary maneuvers out of order.

''It is a sad day in America when we can't find a senator to sign this objection,'' said Representative Jesse L. Jackson Jr., Democrat of Illinois, as he stared at the rows of senators, including Democrats who considered it futile and divisive to keep up the election battle. As Florida's 25 electoral votes were accepted, about a dozen black House members paraded out of the chamber in protest, to the applause of some Democrats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/07/us/over-some-objections-congress-certifies-electoral-vote.html

BumRushDaShow

(146,932 posts)
67. Expect the GOP to do the same thing this go-around
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 06:41 AM
Dec 2020

and they may end up with a few loon Senators to go along. With the CSPAN cameras rolling, it will be a shitshow for sure.

Mc Mike

(9,177 posts)
68. They definitely have some loon senators in their caucus.
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 06:47 AM
Dec 2020

But Tubbs-Jones and Boxer had a legit objection, and it didn't go anywhere, anyway.

BumRushDaShow

(146,932 posts)
69. There were legit objections in 2000
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 06:50 AM
Dec 2020

but Gore pretty much batted them down.

Seems that this will be standard practice for future elections now.

Mc Mike

(9,177 posts)
70. I saw that montage of objections, a few years after it happened.
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 07:01 AM
Dec 2020

No senator backed the legit objections in 2000.

But I can definitely see the repugs doing all this crap, in all future elections that they lose.

EndlessWire

(7,463 posts)
14. Potentially on January 6th.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:17 PM
Dec 2020

No, not potentially, but actually. That's what they plan to do.

The question is, what happens when they can't resolve the issue? I expect no less of the Dems that they DO NOT COMPROMISE. Trump cannot be handed the Presidency. Not one, single vote.

If the Repubs could prove anything, they would have done so for their almost 50 lawsuits. They produced nothing. So, they'll spend two hours screaming at each other (cause that's what Gaetz and Jordan do,) and then?

They're going to demand that this issue be settled by the SC.

I think that we need pushback right now. The Dems need to let the nation know that if the SC hands the election to Trump, there will be war. And those retired military members need to know that they have committed sedition, and there will be consequences. The regular military has stated at least twice that they will not join in.

Trump has Eric Prince and his motley crew to call on. The SC better do their duty, uphold the Constitution, and award the Presidency to the guy who won.

I wonder who will speak for the Dems. And, it all happens behind closed doors.

Fiendish Thingy

(19,023 posts)
30. Doesn't work that way. There will be no SCOTUS involvement in congressional procedures
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 06:12 PM
Dec 2020

SCOTUS doesn’t have jurisdiction over internal congressional processes. (Separation of Powers)

So, they can object, have their debates, vote, and then the objections will not be sustained, and Biden will the next president.

EndlessWire

(7,463 posts)
49. Not for sure
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:42 PM
Dec 2020

"The parties could ask the Supreme Court to resolve any congressional stalemate, but it’s not certain the court would be willing to adjudicate how Congress should count electoral votes.

‘CONTINGENT ELECTION’

A determination that neither candidate has secured a majority of electoral votes would trigger a “contingent election” under the 12th Amendment of the Constitution. That means the House of Representatives chooses the next president, while the Senate selects the vice president."

If there is no result by Jan. 20th, the Speaker of
the House becomes President. Yep, that's Nancy.

So, I respect your opinion, and it could work that way, but I think they will create havoc over the Electors on the floor, and they will be put in a position of having to ask the SC for help in a resolution. That's not good for our side. And, of course, the SC does NOT have to do it. They can refuse. In which case, our best bet is to try for Jan. 20th.

None of the pertinent laws have actually been tested, and the procedures are fleshed out, but not tried. We need the Dems to stand fast.

Biden/Pence?? LOL! Biden/Trump? OMG...

Fiendish Thingy

(19,023 posts)
56. SCOTUS has no jurisdiction re: actions taking place on the floor of congress
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 08:33 PM
Dec 2020

The GOP can tantrum all they want, but the rules and laws are clear: any objections trigger a two hour debate, then a vote. If the chambers don’t agree, the objection is not sustained, and the EV’s are accepted.

Period.

The worst they could do is object to every state’s slate of EV’s, extending the process into December 15, when Biden would be confirmed as president.

Fiendish Thingy

(19,023 posts)
64. So am I. 1.objection 2. Debate 3. Vote 4. Objection not sustained 5. President Biden.
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 12:47 AM
Dec 2020

There is no path to forcing a “contingent election”.

EndlessWire

(7,463 posts)
65. OK
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 04:32 AM
Dec 2020

"In Bush v. Gore, the whole problem was there were no preexisting rules that could be applied. So the Supreme Court has a way to shoehorn itself once again into the controversy, assuming that arguments can be made that there is an irregularity in the process, and the rules are being made up ad hoc after the election. This was the case in Bush v. Gore. So the Supreme Court can reassert itself, and Bush v. Gore despite the Supreme Court saying, it doesn’t provide any precedent, provides somewhat of a rough roadmap of how the matter gets resolved when you push up against the safe harbor rule, which some of us might argue is no deadline at all. It is an advisory rule to be applied by Congress."

I am not trying to say that it will happen. I am saying that the Repubs are lawless, the laws and structures are untested, and we have seen an enormous amount of unbelievable behavior that no one would have believed possible before Trump.

We are talking arguments about violations of the 14th Amendment and equal protection where the facts have been twisted, and lies shouted ad nauseum until they become truth and nobody knows what's going on.

So, I am not telling you that you are wrong; under most circumstances, you would be right, and you might be right now, but you do not allow for an extended fight where the Repubs push it to the brink. Trump wants it before the SC, and it is NOT an absolute that he cannot find a way to twist it using his goons so that we have to go through even more pain.

Please excuse me, but I believe we are beating a dead horse here, and I am done. I will wait until Trump leaves the WH and Joe is standing at the podium to feel like it's over. I have learned that as soon as you declare something is an absolute truth, something or someone will come along to knock you off your high horse. Bush v. Gore is not a precedent, but the SC did decide the outcome of the election that year by interrupting the recount.

And we are trodding in untried waters here, so even though we have procedures written down, somehow that doesn't mean that the interpretations of the rules will not be corrupted. As an example, the Emoluments clause is clear as a bell, yet there he sits, in violation and scott free. He has committed many criminal and treasonous acts for which he is not being punished, and he does not plan to stop.

That's all. Thank you for your pleasant conversation. I am sure we will be celebrating on Jan. 20th, as we should be.

ancianita

(39,557 posts)
22. So Jordan and Gaetz, maybe Carter and Biggs. The rest?
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:48 PM
Dec 2020

Looks as if their silence might be fence sitting.

Just because Biden didn't allow a congressional fight doesn't mean Pence won't, even as he presents himself as a 'norms' guy.

patricia92243

(12,900 posts)
27. This one little sentence is what I am afraid of:
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 05:59 PM
Dec 2020

"the House and Senate are required to stop the joint session to separately deliberate on the matter for two hours and vote on whether to exclude the contested state's results."

So all the GOP has to do is exclude the states that TRump as contested.

That is the way it reads to me.

onenote

(44,922 posts)
46. She can't. By law, if one House member and one Senator objects to counting a state's electoral vote
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:23 PM
Dec 2020

the two houses separate and each conduct up to two hours of debate on the objection. And they can do this over and over for each state that Biden won.

See post #42.

 

TeamPooka

(25,577 posts)
40. We need to act like Republicans: get a bunch of guns and go protest outside Jordan's home
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:04 PM
Dec 2020

see how he likes it.

Rural_Progressive

(1,107 posts)
41. Certainly am grateful nothing catastrophic is happening in the country while this foolishness is
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:12 PM
Dec 2020

going on.

Oh wait, there is.

onenote

(44,922 posts)
42. The Republicans will make a mockery of the process, but won't change the outcome. Here's the process
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:20 PM
Dec 2020

The procedure for counting electoral votes and dealing with objections is spelled out in law.

After the votes for a state are announced, the Vice President asks if there are any objections. Objections must be signed by at least one House member and one Senator, must be in writing and must describe the basis of the objection "without argument." If these prerequisites are met, the House and Senate meet separately to consider the objection. By law, debate on an objection is limited to two hours with each speaker limit to five minutes, after which a vote is taken. The objection is rejected unless both houses agree to it.

So....in the end, the House will reject every objection. But in all likelihood the process will be drawn out for hours and hours. First, while the member of the House or Senate that rises to lodge an objection isn't supposed to make a speech. But its up to the presiding officer, in this case Pence, to gavel down a member who tries to make an argument. And I doubt we can rely on Pence to shut down a Republican member. And while debate is limited, all it takes is one Repub Senator and one Repub house member to raise an objection to every state that voted for Biden--even California. And while the Democrats can stand down from speaking, the same 24 Republicans can drone on for five minutes each and use up the entire two hours. And delay the final determination by a COUPLE OF DAYS.

Do I think they'll do it? I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't bet against it, or some version of it.

It's going to be embarrassing, but it's clear that Republicans are incapable of feeling embarrassment.

AZ8theist

(6,625 posts)
50. Excellent description of the process.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:48 PM
Dec 2020

Every STATE objection can be debated up to 2 hours. After which, BOTH HOUSES need to agree on the objection. Since we have the House, NO OBJECTION WILL BE PASSED. PERIOD. Counting will be done, President Biden will be sworn in on January 20th.

Repuke objections will just be a delaying tactic, nothing more. No 12th Amendment necessary.

Next year, a vigorous and active campaign needs to be conducted to make America aware of the TRAITORS occupying the halls of Congress. Looking at the pervert Gym Jordan, for one. Drunk, stupid Matt Putz is another. Moron Goemert is another. Treason loving Biggs is another. There are dozens and dozens more. THEY ALL NEED TO BE EXPOSED AS ANTI AMERICAN SCUM.

Vinca

(51,559 posts)
54. Doesn't matter whether he concedes or not. He lost. One way or another he's out 1/20.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 08:07 PM
Dec 2020

If the GOP want to watch him dragged kicking and screaming out the White House door, it's their choice.

wiggs

(8,052 posts)
58. Ahhh...so this is what they are angling for...why goprs haven't acknowledged the loss. They intend
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 08:45 PM
Dec 2020

to make another shit show out of it, and perhaps at the end ask scotus to intervene again because whatever.

They already did it for the ACA...paraded and made useless statements about how bad it was, and then tried to vote it out 53 times.

They don't want to govern...they want to campaign and raise money all the time. I want to tell Biden that we're sorry, to apologize for the assholes that will make his life difficult when he doesn't deserve it.

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,967 posts)
59. besides everything that's already been said,
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 08:50 PM
Dec 2020

they are doing this to frustrate and wear down the will of the American people. Not all of us are stubborn, fight to the end kind of people. Enough of this shit and some people will just say 'fuck it, I quit'. The leadership of the Democratic Party should consider an advertising campaign, created by the best money can buy, to counter this stuff...........

AirmensMom

(14,884 posts)
61. Can you even begin to imagine
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 09:53 PM
Dec 2020

if a Democratic President were doing this?

SMDH Every time I think they can't sink lower, they surprise me.

Response to sabra (Original post)

Initech

(103,448 posts)
63. He gets knocked down, and he keeps getting knocked down again. You ain't never gonna keep him down.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 11:46 PM
Dec 2020

Funny, that's not the way the song goes!

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