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IDemo

(16,926 posts)
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 11:57 AM Oct 2012

Doping agency claims 'overwhelming' proof of cheating by cyclist Armstrong

Source: NBC News

American cyclist Lance Armstrong was part of “the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen,” the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said Wednesday in advance of issuing its long-awaited report detailing the evidence it amassed against the seven-time Tour de France champion.

In a news release announcing the evidence behind its decision, which it will send to other bodies that oversee the sport of cycling, the USADA said that Armstrong was part of an orchestrated cheating campaign run by the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team.

It said that evidence of the scheme "is overwhelming," and includes "sworn testimony from 23 people, including 12 former members of the US Postal Service Team (U.S.P.S. Team) with knowledge of the USPS Team’s doping activities, and Lance Armstrong’s use, possession and distribution of dangerous performance-enhancing drugs in violation of sport rules."

It also includes "direct documentary evidence, including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove doping by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding," the agency said.

Read more: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/10/14342522-doping-agency-claims-overwhelming-proof-of-cheating-by-cyclist-armstrong?lite

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Doping agency claims 'overwhelming' proof of cheating by cyclist Armstrong (Original Post) IDemo Oct 2012 OP
Color me shocked cliffordu Oct 2012 #1
Well, that kind of puts a nail that whole "Livestrong" stuff. MADem Oct 2012 #2
It validates what I've been saying all these years to friends madokie Oct 2012 #76
Grant us mercy slackmaster Oct 2012 #3
Yep RobinA Oct 2012 #44
Are there allegations of crimes? closeupready Oct 2012 #4
Looks like the Feds closed their case against him last February IDemo Oct 2012 #8
Okay, thanks. closeupready Oct 2012 #12
Again another "rehashed scandal of doping in sports" occurring as diversion during political glinda Oct 2012 #17
Why they closed it is controversial. wtmusic Oct 2012 #30
That entire sport is corrupt sharp_stick Oct 2012 #5
It's hard to imagine any sport that isn't corrupt when it comes to PEDs. HuckleB Oct 2012 #21
I'd be surprised if any rider in the pro peleton was NOT doping taught_me_patience Oct 2012 #38
Could you say a little more about that... psychopomp Oct 2012 #92
The back of the peloton is seldom the best place to be, for several reasons wtmusic Oct 2012 #93
It's also known as getting dropped taught_me_patience Oct 2012 #94
So much for "Armstrong is being persecuted" Andy Stanton Oct 2012 #6
Agree with you 100%. A sactimonious cheat getting rich by subverting the system. byeya Oct 2012 #20
He is very wealthy - the Govt should sue him for their funding back adigal Oct 2012 #7
really? hockeynut57 Oct 2012 #9
Just ask your doctor, if you don't mind strokes, heart attack, seizures and risk of fatality just1voice Oct 2012 #74
Once Armstrong agreed to accept all sanctions I figured something like this would come out. groundloop Oct 2012 #10
The TDF Has a Problem AndyTiedye Oct 2012 #25
If all used dope then didn't he win the awards fair and sqare? Missycim Oct 2012 #34
No wtmusic Oct 2012 #46
Yeah, I called it then, too Blue_Tires Oct 2012 #83
That kind of outrageous dishonesty takes... Orrex Oct 2012 #11
Yep! brush Oct 2012 #27
Well, the problem is that the tests that were administered to Armstrong BlueMTexpat Oct 2012 #13
More than 500 tests for doping...none of them came back positive. nt. OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #14
Exactly. eom BlueMTexpat Oct 2012 #16
Yup. truebrit71 Oct 2012 #19
It's not only testimony Andy Stanton Oct 2012 #23
Why does it "mean nothing" that Armstrong passed all those drug tests? nt JudyM Oct 2012 #24
Armstrong, like all Tour riders, made a science out of beating the system wtmusic Oct 2012 #33
I knew way before this happened that they'd get him on something Missycim Oct 2012 #35
This is an American prosecution wtmusic Oct 2012 #45
Here let me fix that for you ..."This is an American presecution"... truebrit71 Oct 2012 #48
Nope...you've run out of steam. wtmusic Oct 2012 #49
there is no american prosecution arely staircase Oct 2012 #67
Prosecution by an American agency wtmusic Oct 2012 #77
there is no such thing arely staircase Oct 2012 #78
Did you get a law degree from the back of a magazine? wtmusic Oct 2012 #79
no they only prosecute those indicted by them arely staircase Oct 2012 #81
There are liars and cheats from evey state wtmusic Oct 2012 #82
no but arely staircase Oct 2012 #84
Then maybe your need to tickle your brainbone a little wtmusic Oct 2012 #85
and not even that definition works arely staircase Oct 2012 #86
OK wtmusic Oct 2012 #87
i am the fan of nobody's ability to ride a bicycle arely staircase Oct 2012 #88
I guess you cared enough to click on this thread. wtmusic Oct 2012 #89
maybe you should read more slowly or something arely staircase Oct 2012 #90
From the person who first believed a prosecution required a grand jury wtmusic Oct 2012 #91
yep, everybody but lance is lying.. frylock Oct 2012 #63
I guess the hundreds of pages of evidence will explain how he beat the system.. snooper2 Oct 2012 #22
Thank you for that. I appreciate another viewpoint and opinion on this. uppityperson Oct 2012 #18
There is strong evidence that Armstrong tested positive for EPO in 1999 wtmusic Oct 2012 #31
In that case, that's the REAL story that needs to come out Blasphemer Oct 2012 #70
You have the years backwards DotGone Oct 2012 #71
yes, thanks. nt wtmusic Oct 2012 #80
Thanks for the information! proverbialwisdom Oct 2012 #53
It is pretty black and white at this point. DanTex Oct 2012 #57
The Postal Service is doping? Myrina Oct 2012 #15
Ever since he lent his "good name" to HeWhoShallNotBeNamed LiberalLovinLug Oct 2012 #26
He also hired Karl Rove's legal team to defend him nt wtmusic Oct 2012 #32
He must've been using masking agents toby jo Oct 2012 #28
It appears to me that the only totally objective proof here is that humblebum Oct 2012 #29
You might want to read the actual report and rethink this. wtmusic Oct 2012 #41
Yup. Looks like a personal grudge more than anything else... truebrit71 Oct 2012 #50
Have you read the report? wtmusic Oct 2012 #54
Nope, and neither have you.. truebrit71 Oct 2012 #59
Defensive much? wtmusic Oct 2012 #61
Not sure where that 500 number came from. I think Lance just made it up. DanTex Oct 2012 #62
The 500 number is an outright lie by Lance, his lawyers, and PR team DotGone Oct 2012 #65
I have read most if not all riders use some kind of juice Missycim Oct 2012 #36
Enough of the blah, blah, blah press releases. ManiacJoe Oct 2012 #37
Here's the report wtmusic Oct 2012 #42
Thank you for the link! ManiacJoe Oct 2012 #69
I don't want to believe. Ash_F Oct 2012 #39
You and millions of others. wtmusic Oct 2012 #43
Sworn testimony from 23 people = case closed. Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #40
Maybe not, but at least two are known liars... truebrit71 Oct 2012 #51
I don't think they were somehow able to persuade 23 people to commit perjury. Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #55
Way more than two. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2012 #73
Meh... Javaman Oct 2012 #47
He's a Republican GeorgeGist Oct 2012 #52
Nope. truebrit71 Oct 2012 #60
What A Bunch of !!!!!!!!!!! elbloggoZY27 Oct 2012 #56
Did 23 people perjure themselves and testify against the innocent guy? (nt) Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #72
Instant cure for Lance holdouts: wtmusic Oct 2012 #58
Update: Armstrong paid Dr Michele Ferrari over $1 Million over his career. DanTex Oct 2012 #64
Michele "Doping is not cheating unless you get caught" Ferrari DotGone Oct 2012 #66
. ManiacJoe Oct 2012 #68
They've come up with a lot of excuses already: lovemydog Oct 2012 #75

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. Well, that kind of puts a nail that whole "Livestrong" stuff.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:01 PM
Oct 2012

I'll bet Sheryl Crow feels like she dodged an enormous bullet!

madokie

(51,076 posts)
76. It validates what I've been saying all these years to friends
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 09:53 PM
Oct 2012

No way could Lance Armstrong win 7 times, no way. The first one maybe but the rest, hardly. I question all of his wins though and have since the first win. Just something about him wasn't right and generally where there is smoke there is fire.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
12. Okay, thanks.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:16 PM
Oct 2012

You're right - unless there is any new information that was discovered, it's probably unlikely they'll re-open it.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
17. Again another "rehashed scandal of doping in sports" occurring as diversion during political
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:41 PM
Oct 2012

Season.
I am not surprised. Only that people haven't noticed the pattern before.
Even if there is any truth in anything about any of this, I think it should be dropped at least during election times or at best not used to divert attention from issues.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
30. Why they closed it is controversial.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:27 PM
Oct 2012

"According to reports sources within the FBI, the FDA, and the U.S. Posal Service were 'shocked, surprised, and angered' at the unexplained closure. One source said 'there were no weaknesses in the case.' ESPN reported that prosecutors had prepared a written recommendation to indict Armstrong and others. A source close to the investigation said Sheryl Crow had been a 'star witness'. Crow did not respond to interview requests.

Four possible factors behind (U.S. Attorney André) Birotte's decision to close the case:

1. Birotte, who'd been appointed just 11 months before, wanted to protect President Obama from the potentially ugly spectacle of indicting an American hero during an election year.

...

3. Birotte was wary of the cancer lobby. A controversy had recently erupted when the Susan G. Komen Foundation withdrew $700,000 in funding for Planned Parenthood for what appeared to be pressure from the political right...On Friday, February 3, the same day the case was dropped, the Lance Armstrong Foundation donated $100,000 to Planned Parenthood to fill the funding gap, providing a clear signal of the LAF's support of the Obama administration's stance on reproductive rights, as well as a connection to the millions of women who objected to the Komen Foundation's decision."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021303889

sharp_stick

(14,400 posts)
5. That entire sport is corrupt
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:05 PM
Oct 2012

beyond belief. I'd be surprised if there was anyone in the last 20 years or so that actually finished in the top 25% without some form of "enhancement"

The only difference between this sport and the former East German olympic teams is that the cycling world had to work harder to pretend they were clean.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
38. I'd be surprised if any rider in the pro peleton was NOT doping
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:51 PM
Oct 2012

Especially between 1990-2005. In the nineties, there was no test for EPO... and phenomenal riders like Greg Lemond were getting blown out the back of the peleton.

psychopomp

(4,668 posts)
92. Could you say a little more about that...
Thu Oct 11, 2012, 10:25 AM
Oct 2012

last sentence, with regard to "Greg Lemond were getting blown out the back of the peleton." I thought that the back of the peleton was the sweet spot. If I get it right, you mean Lemond was unable to keep up with the peleton.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
93. The back of the peloton is seldom the best place to be, for several reasons
Thu Oct 11, 2012, 01:12 PM
Oct 2012

1) The peloton tends to flex like a huge rubber band, and riders at the back are continually forced to speed up/slow down at the mercy of riders in front
2) In quick accelerations you can get dropped off the back. The inability to get back "on" can sometimes be a race-ender.
3) You're much more likely to get taken down in a crash.

LeMond, Andy Hampsten, Scott Mercier...there were hundreds of riders that quit rather than dope and simply could no longer compete. Riders like Lance ended their careers.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
94. It's also known as getting dropped
Thu Oct 11, 2012, 01:28 PM
Oct 2012

When the rider falls out of the slipstream of the peloton (due to fatigue or bike malfunction) and cannot get back in. While the Peloton can maintain 50km/hr over long distances, a solo rider will struggle to maintain 40km/hr... and huge time is lost.

Look at Lemond's tour results in 1990:
1 Greg LeMond (USA) Z 90h 43' 20"
2 Claudio Chiappucci (ITA) Carrera Jeans-Vagabond +2' 16"
3 Erik Breukink (NED) PDM +2' 29"
4 Pedro Delgado (ESP) Banesto +5' 01"
5 Marino Lejarreta (ESP) ONCE +5' 05"
6 Eduardo Chozas (ESP) ONCE +9' 14"
7 Gianni Bugno (ITA) Chateau d'Ax +9' 39"
8 Raúl Alcalá (MEX) PDM +11' 14"
9 Claude Criquielion (BEL) Lotto-Superclub +12' 04"
10 Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto +12' 47"

1991, is when it's believed that EPO was introduced into cycling:
Rank Name Team Time
1 Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto 101h 01' 20"
2 Gianni Bugno (ITA) Gatorade-Chateau d'Ax +3' 36"
3 Claudio Chiappucci (ITA) Carrera +5' 56"
4 Charly Mottet (FRA) RMO +7' 37"
5 Luc Leblanc (FRA) Castorama +10' 10"
6 Laurent Fignon (FRA) Castorama +11' 27"
7 Greg LeMond (USA) Z +13' 13"

Lemond was in good form for the 1991 tour and expected to win. Yet, he was 10 minutes back of guys he beat by 10 minutes just the year before. By 1992, Lemond could not even keep up with the peloton and had to withdraw from the race.

Andy Stanton

(264 posts)
6. So much for "Armstrong is being persecuted"
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:06 PM
Oct 2012

I was really getting sick of that garbage. He's a cheater, a liar and a fraud and will always be remembered as such.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
20. Agree with you 100%. A sactimonious cheat getting rich by subverting the system.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 01:05 PM
Oct 2012

It's good the truth has finally come out.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
7. He is very wealthy - the Govt should sue him for their funding back
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:10 PM
Oct 2012

Sue the whole damn team of cheaters!!!

hockeynut57

(230 posts)
9. really?
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:13 PM
Oct 2012

where can i get some? as a 55 y/o playing in a league where my fellow players are often younger than my kids, i could use a little performance enhancement . just ask my teammates

groundloop

(11,482 posts)
10. Once Armstrong agreed to accept all sanctions I figured something like this would come out.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:16 PM
Oct 2012

I'm guessing that once he was presented with the evidence that USADA had he realized that any further legal battles would be a waste of time.

Oh, and I believe NBC News made an error. Armstrong is no longer "the seven-time Tour de France champion", he's already been stripped of those victories hasn't he? In any case it's damned sad that myself and my kids cheered for a cheater.

AndyTiedye

(23,500 posts)
25. The TDF Has a Problem
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 01:50 PM
Oct 2012

If they take away Armstrong's championships, to whom do they award them?
Nearly all of the runners-up are admitted and/or convicted dopers too.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
46. No
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:04 PM
Oct 2012

What it did was to make it so the people with the best doctors, the best dope, and the best resources to hide it all had a massive advantage.

That was Lance.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
83. Yeah, I called it then, too
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:41 PM
Oct 2012

I had a feeling he was trying to stay one step ahead of the tidal wave...

brush

(53,331 posts)
27. Yep!
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 02:26 PM
Oct 2012

Where have we seen that kind of dishonesty before in politics? Huh, let's see . . . sounds kind of familiar. Wait, wait, it's coming to me . . .

BlueMTexpat

(15,344 posts)
13. Well, the problem is that the tests that were administered to Armstrong
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:18 PM
Oct 2012
at the time did not test positive. The teammates that have provided the most damaging testimony against Armstrong did test positive at the time.

There is a lot of controversy whether after the fact "sworn testimony" which was seen by many here in Europe (I live in Switzerland) and even some in the US to have been coerced should trump actual and contemporaneous test results that were performed under controlled conditions that were the same for all players.

Which should it be? I'm not advocating either way.

But it's not quite as black and white as the US doping agency would like to make it seem.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
19. Yup.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:58 PM
Oct 2012

Never failed a drug test, testimony from two admitted liars, and who knows WHAT the USADA threatened the other guys with if they DIDN'T hear what they wanted to hear, and STILL no proof that he was doping...

But sure, HE'S the fraud here..

Andy Stanton

(264 posts)
23. It's not only testimony
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 01:27 PM
Oct 2012

of 23 witnesses but documentary evidence as well.

"The evidence also includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding,"

It was a massive cover up.

That Armstrong passed drug tests means nothing.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
33. Armstrong, like all Tour riders, made a science out of beating the system
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:38 PM
Oct 2012

Even with the best resources and doctors, however, there's strong evidence he did get "popped" for EPO and bribed his way out of it.

Lance brought a HUGE amount of money into pro cycling. That created a similarly huge incentive to "keep him innocent" - even if he wasn't.

 

Missycim

(950 posts)
35. I knew way before this happened that they'd get him on something
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:42 PM
Oct 2012

they French never forgave him for winning all those tour's

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
45. This is an American prosecution
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:01 PM
Oct 2012

Lance is, and was, a helluva cyclist. But the main reason he won all those Tours is he was an even better cheater.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
48. Here let me fix that for you ..."This is an American presecution"...
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:26 PM
Oct 2012

...threats, blackmail, extortion...this isn't justice, this is a witch-hunt..always has been...

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
77. Prosecution by an American agency
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:16 PM
Oct 2012

which is important.

If any foreign organization had prosecuted him it would have been dismissed as a rival nation's jealousy. Tyler Hamilton says as much in his book, The Secret Race.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
78. there is no such thing
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:19 PM
Oct 2012

prosecution is the function of a prosecutor after one has been indicted by a grand jury.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
82. There are liars and cheats from evey state
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:40 PM
Oct 2012

but Lance's lies are as big as his state is wide.

Does that touch a nerve?

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
85. Then maybe your need to tickle your brainbone a little
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:44 PM
Oct 2012

"pros·e·cute

2. to follow up or carry forward something undertaken or begun, usually to its completion: to prosecute a war. "

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prosecute

This silly parsing business, that sounds like Lance when he claims to ride "clean". Maybe you understood what he meant?

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
88. i am the fan of nobody's ability to ride a bicycle
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:52 PM
Oct 2012

i don't give two sh*ts about it. next to nascar, it is about the most boring thing i can think of. i'd rather watch flies f* or respond to your hillarity - the funniest part being that you think i do care about lance armstrong.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
89. I guess you cared enough to click on this thread.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 10:55 PM
Oct 2012

You know, denial plays a large part in Lance's life.

Although I don't believe that's necessarily a Texas trait.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
90. maybe you should read more slowly or something
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 11:01 PM
Oct 2012

it couldn't hurt.

i have not expressed one opinion about a dude in spandex riding a bicycle, only the ignorant misuse of the word prosecute.

and your texan baiting is cute, but completely ineffectual - like your reading comprehension.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
91. From the person who first believed a prosecution required a grand jury
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 11:10 PM
Oct 2012

then an indictment.

Strike two. Wanna take another stab?

frylock

(34,825 posts)
63. yep, everybody but lance is lying..
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 06:03 PM
Oct 2012

and lance beat everyone that was doping. that's the story you want to go with?

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
22. I guess the hundreds of pages of evidence will explain how he beat the system..
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 01:09 PM
Oct 2012

Nobody ever said he was stupid!

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
31. There is strong evidence that Armstrong tested positive for EPO in 1999
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:31 PM
Oct 2012

and another time for corticosteroids - and hushed the results by contributing $125,000 to the UCI, cycling's international regulatory agency.

This will all come out in the wash.

Blasphemer

(3,261 posts)
70. In that case, that's the REAL story that needs to come out
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 08:44 PM
Oct 2012

Right or wrong, many athletes have gotten away with doping despite being tested. I don't condone it but given how commonplace it is, I don't know how I feel about stripping athletes of medals/victories without a positive test. However, if money was paid to hide test results, that's a very different kettle of fish.

DotGone

(182 posts)
71. You have the years backwards
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 09:00 PM
Oct 2012

He tested positive for corticosteroids in 1999 and got an inexplicable pass when a TUE was granted with a backdated doctor's note. There was no EPO test in 1999 which is why the researchers tested 1999 samples for EPO in 2005 and hence Lance's B samples came back positive. Allegedly, he tested positive for EPO in 2001 at the Tour de Suisse and he "donated" $125K to the UCI to make it go away.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
57. It is pretty black and white at this point.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 05:34 PM
Oct 2012

USADA has 26 eyewitnesses, including 11 former teammates of Armstrong. Two of them -- Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton -- had tested positive. The rest did not, including respected riders with clean records like George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde, etc. It's pretty much a who's who of US pro cycling for the last 10-15 years. And, contrary to what Armstrong's lawyers have been saying, there is zero evidence of ay kind of extortion or coercion.

The fact that Lance Armstrong didn't test positive proves absolutely nothing, primarily because the testing was full of holes and easy to beat for a sophisticated doping program like Armstrong and USPS had. A lot of dopers (e.g. Ullrich, Basso) never tested positive, and only got busted by other means, and even the guys who did test positive (e.g. Landis, Hamilton) only did after years of successfully beating the tests.

For example, at the start of Armstrong's career, there was no test for EPO. Which means that, obviously, testing negative proves nothing about EPO use. They also didn't used to test in the off season. That means Armstrong could have taken anything he wanted during training, without testing positive. Throughout Armstrong's career, there was never a test for blood doping, which again means that none of Armstrong's blood transfusions would ever have triggered any positive test. And so on.

It's also not true that Armstrong never tested positive. At the very least, he tested positive for cortisone in the '99 Tour, but was allowed to slide, and also his urine samples later tested positive for EPO. So that's two positive tests, at least. It's true that Armstrong never was sanctioned for doping (prior to this), but it's not true that he never tested positive.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
15. The Postal Service is doping?
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:26 PM
Oct 2012

Wait, whuu? If that were the case, my mail would get delivered a helluva lot faster ....

LiberalLovinLug

(14,144 posts)
26. Ever since he lent his "good name" to HeWhoShallNotBeNamed
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 02:25 PM
Oct 2012

I've been a little suspicious.

The company of cheaters.

 

humblebum

(5,881 posts)
29. It appears to me that the only totally objective proof here is that
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 02:39 PM
Oct 2012

500 banned substance tests came back negative. That fact in itself should lead those in charge to question the credibility of a system that can rely only on subjective evidence. The evidence against the USADA is more overwhelming than against Armstrong.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
50. Yup. Looks like a personal grudge more than anything else...
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:29 PM
Oct 2012

....So the Feds couldn't indict him, but the head douchebag at the USADA can...Remind me again which of those folks jobs relies SOLELY upon finding athletes guilty of doping?

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
54. Have you read the report?
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:40 PM
Oct 2012

Either you're a very fast reader, or it might be wise to withhold judgement.

You'll have a lot of answering to do.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
59. Nope, and neither have you..
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 05:39 PM
Oct 2012

I answer to NO-ONE least of all some anonymous poster on the internet...get over yourself..

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
62. Not sure where that 500 number came from. I think Lance just made it up.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 05:59 PM
Oct 2012

Anyway, as I described here, the lack of positive tests means nothing. Lance actually did test positive (at least) twice, but the strongest evidence against him is the 25 eyewitnesses. The tests were pretty easy to beat.

For example, given that there was no test for blood doping at any time during Lance Armstrong's career, it is difficult to argue that passing tests proves he wasn't blood doping. Wouldn't you agree?

DotGone

(182 posts)
65. The 500 number is an outright lie by Lance, his lawyers, and PR team
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 07:13 PM
Oct 2012

Doping controls are public information. If you want to know how many times an athlete has been tested, just head to the doping agency's website and punch in the name. If we're generous, Lance has been tested a little over 200 times. Pretty much the same amount as Marion "I have been tested hundreds of times and never failed a drug test" Jones and the recently admitted doper and Lance's first officer, George Hincapie, who also never failed a drug test. Basically, his entire team who all passed their drug tests, with the exception of Floyd and Tyler, have come out and admitted the team was doped to the gills. So the whole "Never failing a drug test" excuse means nothing. Prior to 2006, there wasn't a reliable test for EPO. Hence the ridiculous power ratios Lance and his contemporaries had. 1990-2005 were dirty, dirty years in the peloton.

 

Missycim

(950 posts)
36. I have read most if not all riders use some kind of juice
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:43 PM
Oct 2012

I say let them all use it so it'll be a fair playing field

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
43. You and millions of others.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:59 PM
Oct 2012

A sad day, with the silver lining that justice may finally have been served.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
40. Sworn testimony from 23 people = case closed.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 03:55 PM
Oct 2012

Maybe one or two disgruntled former associates could conceivably lie. But there is no way in hell 23 people got together and agreed to frame Armstrong.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
51. Maybe not, but at least two are known liars...
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:31 PM
Oct 2012

...and the others were extorted or threatened for their "testimony"....'Do as we say or we will implicate YOU as well...'

Yup, that sounds fair...

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
55. I don't think they were somehow able to persuade 23 people to commit perjury.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:54 PM
Oct 2012

Anyway, read the report. It is devastating, and the evidence is absolutely overwhelming.

Javaman

(62,394 posts)
47. Meh...
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 04:08 PM
Oct 2012

I would be more surprised if they ran a headline that read, "Athlete (fill in your fav) cleared of all charges of doping. Nothing found in system".

 

elbloggoZY27

(283 posts)
56. What A Bunch of !!!!!!!!!!!
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 05:25 PM
Oct 2012

Maybe overwhelming, but the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My question to the USADA is: How come you are the only Agency with the so called overwhelming evidence.


When it comes to sex and drug scandals I believe very little of this so called overwhelming evidence.


My case in point is a parent of a young child was accused and charged with her heinous murder in Illinois and was completely exonerated when the real killer was charged and found guilty. The father received a huge award for a wrongful conviction.

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
58. Instant cure for Lance holdouts:
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 05:38 PM
Oct 2012

Read some of the accounts of Lance threatening family of other team members (for example, Levi Leipheimer affidavit)

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Lance is a megalomaniacal prick.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
64. Update: Armstrong paid Dr Michele Ferrari over $1 Million over his career.
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 06:08 PM
Oct 2012

Based on bank records obtained by USADA:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-lance-armstrong-paid-ferrari-more-than-dollar-1-million

Ferrari, of course, is the notorious doctor known for involvement with doping, and who once famously asserted that EPO was no more dangerous than orange juice. I wonder what excuse the Armstrong PR team will come up with for this.

DotGone

(182 posts)
66. Michele "Doping is not cheating unless you get caught" Ferrari
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 07:18 PM
Oct 2012

Wasn't that quote attributed to him? Then again, his clients rarely if ever cheated since he was the best in the business.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
75. They've come up with a lot of excuses already:
Wed Oct 10, 2012, 09:48 PM
Oct 2012

'blame the french!'
'government vendetta!'
'only one side of the story!'
'cancer research!'
'buy my bracelets!'
'it's not about the bike!'

It's about time they stfu.

He's guilty as hell.

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