Doping agency claims 'overwhelming' proof of cheating by cyclist Armstrong
Source: NBC News
American cyclist Lance Armstrong was part of the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said Wednesday in advance of issuing its long-awaited report detailing the evidence it amassed against the seven-time Tour de France champion.
In a news release announcing the evidence behind its decision, which it will send to other bodies that oversee the sport of cycling, the USADA said that Armstrong was part of an orchestrated cheating campaign run by the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team.
It said that evidence of the scheme "is overwhelming," and includes "sworn testimony from 23 people, including 12 former members of the US Postal Service Team (U.S.P.S. Team) with knowledge of the USPS Teams doping activities, and Lance Armstrongs use, possession and distribution of dangerous performance-enhancing drugs in violation of sport rules."
It also includes "direct documentary evidence, including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove doping by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding," the agency said.
Read more: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/10/14342522-doping-agency-claims-overwhelming-proof-of-cheating-by-cyclist-armstrong?lite
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Shocked, I say.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'll bet Sheryl Crow feels like she dodged an enormous bullet!
madokie
(51,076 posts)No way could Lance Armstrong win 7 times, no way. The first one maybe but the rest, hardly. I question all of his wins though and have since the first win. Just something about him wasn't right and generally where there is smoke there is fire.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)'Cause all our heroes are bastards.
"The highway's jammed with broken heros." Truly.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I mean, doping is cheating, but is it illegal?
IDemo
(16,926 posts)I don't know whether this would encourage them to re-open it, but my sense is it's highly doubtful.
http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/7538482/federal-prosecutors-close-lance-armstrong-doping-case-press-charges
closeupready
(29,503 posts)You're right - unless there is any new information that was discovered, it's probably unlikely they'll re-open it.
glinda
(14,807 posts)Season.
I am not surprised. Only that people haven't noticed the pattern before.
Even if there is any truth in anything about any of this, I think it should be dropped at least during election times or at best not used to divert attention from issues.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)"According to reports sources within the FBI, the FDA, and the U.S. Posal Service were 'shocked, surprised, and angered' at the unexplained closure. One source said 'there were no weaknesses in the case.' ESPN reported that prosecutors had prepared a written recommendation to indict Armstrong and others. A source close to the investigation said Sheryl Crow had been a 'star witness'. Crow did not respond to interview requests.
Four possible factors behind (U.S. Attorney André) Birotte's decision to close the case:
1. Birotte, who'd been appointed just 11 months before, wanted to protect President Obama from the potentially ugly spectacle of indicting an American hero during an election year.
...
3. Birotte was wary of the cancer lobby. A controversy had recently erupted when the Susan G. Komen Foundation withdrew $700,000 in funding for Planned Parenthood for what appeared to be pressure from the political right...On Friday, February 3, the same day the case was dropped, the Lance Armstrong Foundation donated $100,000 to Planned Parenthood to fill the funding gap, providing a clear signal of the LAF's support of the Obama administration's stance on reproductive rights, as well as a connection to the millions of women who objected to the Komen Foundation's decision."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021303889
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)beyond belief. I'd be surprised if there was anyone in the last 20 years or so that actually finished in the top 25% without some form of "enhancement"
The only difference between this sport and the former East German olympic teams is that the cycling world had to work harder to pretend they were clean.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)Especially between 1990-2005. In the nineties, there was no test for EPO... and phenomenal riders like Greg Lemond were getting blown out the back of the peleton.
psychopomp
(4,668 posts)last sentence, with regard to "Greg Lemond were getting blown out the back of the peleton." I thought that the back of the peleton was the sweet spot. If I get it right, you mean Lemond was unable to keep up with the peleton.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)1) The peloton tends to flex like a huge rubber band, and riders at the back are continually forced to speed up/slow down at the mercy of riders in front
2) In quick accelerations you can get dropped off the back. The inability to get back "on" can sometimes be a race-ender.
3) You're much more likely to get taken down in a crash.
LeMond, Andy Hampsten, Scott Mercier...there were hundreds of riders that quit rather than dope and simply could no longer compete. Riders like Lance ended their careers.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)When the rider falls out of the slipstream of the peloton (due to fatigue or bike malfunction) and cannot get back in. While the Peloton can maintain 50km/hr over long distances, a solo rider will struggle to maintain 40km/hr... and huge time is lost.
Look at Lemond's tour results in 1990:
1 Greg LeMond (USA) Z 90h 43' 20"
2 Claudio Chiappucci (ITA) Carrera Jeans-Vagabond +2' 16"
3 Erik Breukink (NED) PDM +2' 29"
4 Pedro Delgado (ESP) Banesto +5' 01"
5 Marino Lejarreta (ESP) ONCE +5' 05"
6 Eduardo Chozas (ESP) ONCE +9' 14"
7 Gianni Bugno (ITA) Chateau d'Ax +9' 39"
8 Raúl Alcalá (MEX) PDM +11' 14"
9 Claude Criquielion (BEL) Lotto-Superclub +12' 04"
10 Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto +12' 47"
1991, is when it's believed that EPO was introduced into cycling:
Rank Name Team Time
1 Miguel Indurain (ESP) Banesto 101h 01' 20"
2 Gianni Bugno (ITA) Gatorade-Chateau d'Ax +3' 36"
3 Claudio Chiappucci (ITA) Carrera +5' 56"
4 Charly Mottet (FRA) RMO +7' 37"
5 Luc Leblanc (FRA) Castorama +10' 10"
6 Laurent Fignon (FRA) Castorama +11' 27"
7 Greg LeMond (USA) Z +13' 13"
Lemond was in good form for the 1991 tour and expected to win. Yet, he was 10 minutes back of guys he beat by 10 minutes just the year before. By 1992, Lemond could not even keep up with the peloton and had to withdraw from the race.
Andy Stanton
(264 posts)I was really getting sick of that garbage. He's a cheater, a liar and a fraud and will always be remembered as such.
byeya
(2,842 posts)It's good the truth has finally come out.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Sue the whole damn team of cheaters!!!
hockeynut57
(230 posts)where can i get some? as a 55 y/o playing in a league where my fellow players are often younger than my kids, i could use a little performance enhancement . just ask my teammates
just1voice
(1,362 posts)groundloop
(11,482 posts)I'm guessing that once he was presented with the evidence that USADA had he realized that any further legal battles would be a waste of time.
Oh, and I believe NBC News made an error. Armstrong is no longer "the seven-time Tour de France champion", he's already been stripped of those victories hasn't he? In any case it's damned sad that myself and my kids cheered for a cheater.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)If they take away Armstrong's championships, to whom do they award them?
Nearly all of the runners-up are admitted and/or convicted dopers too.
Missycim
(950 posts)nt
What it did was to make it so the people with the best doctors, the best dope, and the best resources to hide it all had a massive advantage.
That was Lance.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I had a feeling he was trying to stay one step ahead of the tidal wave...
Orrex
(63,057 posts)Well, a lot of nerve.
Where have we seen that kind of dishonesty before in politics? Huh, let's see . . . sounds kind of familiar. Wait, wait, it's coming to me . . .
BlueMTexpat
(15,344 posts)There is a lot of controversy whether after the fact "sworn testimony" which was seen by many here in Europe (I live in Switzerland) and even some in the US to have been coerced should trump actual and contemporaneous test results that were performed under controlled conditions that were the same for all players.
Which should it be? I'm not advocating either way.
But it's not quite as black and white as the US doping agency would like to make it seem.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,344 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Never failed a drug test, testimony from two admitted liars, and who knows WHAT the USADA threatened the other guys with if they DIDN'T hear what they wanted to hear, and STILL no proof that he was doping...
But sure, HE'S the fraud here..
Andy Stanton
(264 posts)of 23 witnesses but documentary evidence as well.
"The evidence also includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding,"
It was a massive cover up.
That Armstrong passed drug tests means nothing.
JudyM
(29,105 posts)wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Even with the best resources and doctors, however, there's strong evidence he did get "popped" for EPO and bribed his way out of it.
Lance brought a HUGE amount of money into pro cycling. That created a similarly huge incentive to "keep him innocent" - even if he wasn't.
Missycim
(950 posts)they French never forgave him for winning all those tour's
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Lance is, and was, a helluva cyclist. But the main reason he won all those Tours is he was an even better cheater.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...threats, blackmail, extortion...this isn't justice, this is a witch-hunt..always has been...
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)what in god's name are you talking about.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)which is important.
If any foreign organization had prosecuted him it would have been dismissed as a rival nation's jealousy. Tyler Hamilton says as much in his book, The Secret Race.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)prosecution is the function of a prosecutor after one has been indicted by a grand jury.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Prosecutors only face grand juries, do they?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)like a said in the post you didn't understand.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)but Lance's lies are as big as his state is wide.
Does that touch a nerve?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)people who think a report by an agency is a prosecution tickle my funnybone.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)"pros·e·cute
2. to follow up or carry forward something undertaken or begun, usually to its completion: to prosecute a war. "
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prosecute
This silly parsing business, that sounds like Lance when he claims to ride "clean". Maybe you understood what he meant?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)too funny
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)sorry about your hero
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)i don't give two sh*ts about it. next to nascar, it is about the most boring thing i can think of. i'd rather watch flies f* or respond to your hillarity - the funniest part being that you think i do care about lance armstrong.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)You know, denial plays a large part in Lance's life.
Although I don't believe that's necessarily a Texas trait.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)it couldn't hurt.
i have not expressed one opinion about a dude in spandex riding a bicycle, only the ignorant misuse of the word prosecute.
and your texan baiting is cute, but completely ineffectual - like your reading comprehension.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)then an indictment.
Strike two. Wanna take another stab?
frylock
(34,825 posts)and lance beat everyone that was doping. that's the story you want to go with?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Nobody ever said he was stupid!
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)wtmusic
(39,166 posts)and another time for corticosteroids - and hushed the results by contributing $125,000 to the UCI, cycling's international regulatory agency.
This will all come out in the wash.
Blasphemer
(3,261 posts)Right or wrong, many athletes have gotten away with doping despite being tested. I don't condone it but given how commonplace it is, I don't know how I feel about stripping athletes of medals/victories without a positive test. However, if money was paid to hide test results, that's a very different kettle of fish.
DotGone
(182 posts)He tested positive for corticosteroids in 1999 and got an inexplicable pass when a TUE was granted with a backdated doctor's note. There was no EPO test in 1999 which is why the researchers tested 1999 samples for EPO in 2005 and hence Lance's B samples came back positive. Allegedly, he tested positive for EPO in 2001 at the Tour de Suisse and he "donated" $125K to the UCI to make it go away.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)USADA has 26 eyewitnesses, including 11 former teammates of Armstrong. Two of them -- Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton -- had tested positive. The rest did not, including respected riders with clean records like George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde, etc. It's pretty much a who's who of US pro cycling for the last 10-15 years. And, contrary to what Armstrong's lawyers have been saying, there is zero evidence of ay kind of extortion or coercion.
The fact that Lance Armstrong didn't test positive proves absolutely nothing, primarily because the testing was full of holes and easy to beat for a sophisticated doping program like Armstrong and USPS had. A lot of dopers (e.g. Ullrich, Basso) never tested positive, and only got busted by other means, and even the guys who did test positive (e.g. Landis, Hamilton) only did after years of successfully beating the tests.
For example, at the start of Armstrong's career, there was no test for EPO. Which means that, obviously, testing negative proves nothing about EPO use. They also didn't used to test in the off season. That means Armstrong could have taken anything he wanted during training, without testing positive. Throughout Armstrong's career, there was never a test for blood doping, which again means that none of Armstrong's blood transfusions would ever have triggered any positive test. And so on.
It's also not true that Armstrong never tested positive. At the very least, he tested positive for cortisone in the '99 Tour, but was allowed to slide, and also his urine samples later tested positive for EPO. So that's two positive tests, at least. It's true that Armstrong never was sanctioned for doping (prior to this), but it's not true that he never tested positive.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)Wait, whuu? If that were the case, my mail would get delivered a helluva lot faster ....
LiberalLovinLug
(14,144 posts)I've been a little suspicious.
The company of cheaters.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)toby jo
(1,269 posts)humblebum
(5,881 posts)500 banned substance tests came back negative. That fact in itself should lead those in charge to question the credibility of a system that can rely only on subjective evidence. The evidence against the USADA is more overwhelming than against Armstrong.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)....So the Feds couldn't indict him, but the head douchebag at the USADA can...Remind me again which of those folks jobs relies SOLELY upon finding athletes guilty of doping?
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Either you're a very fast reader, or it might be wise to withhold judgement.
You'll have a lot of answering to do.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)I answer to NO-ONE least of all some anonymous poster on the internet...get over yourself..
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Your hero is toast.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Anyway, as I described here, the lack of positive tests means nothing. Lance actually did test positive (at least) twice, but the strongest evidence against him is the 25 eyewitnesses. The tests were pretty easy to beat.
For example, given that there was no test for blood doping at any time during Lance Armstrong's career, it is difficult to argue that passing tests proves he wasn't blood doping. Wouldn't you agree?
DotGone
(182 posts)Doping controls are public information. If you want to know how many times an athlete has been tested, just head to the doping agency's website and punch in the name. If we're generous, Lance has been tested a little over 200 times. Pretty much the same amount as Marion "I have been tested hundreds of times and never failed a drug test" Jones and the recently admitted doper and Lance's first officer, George Hincapie, who also never failed a drug test. Basically, his entire team who all passed their drug tests, with the exception of Floyd and Tyler, have come out and admitted the team was doped to the gills. So the whole "Never failing a drug test" excuse means nothing. Prior to 2006, there wasn't a reliable test for EPO. Hence the ridiculous power ratios Lance and his contemporaries had. 1990-2005 were dirty, dirty years in the peloton.
Missycim
(950 posts)I say let them all use it so it'll be a fair playing field
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Lets see the actual evidence.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Armstrong was a hometown hero; I really looked up to him.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)A sad day, with the silver lining that justice may finally have been served.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Maybe one or two disgruntled former associates could conceivably lie. But there is no way in hell 23 people got together and agreed to frame Armstrong.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...and the others were extorted or threatened for their "testimony"....'Do as we say or we will implicate YOU as well...'
Yup, that sounds fair...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Anyway, read the report. It is devastating, and the evidence is absolutely overwhelming.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(106,789 posts)If one reads the report.
Javaman
(62,394 posts)I would be more surprised if they ran a headline that read, "Athlete (fill in your fav) cleared of all charges of doping. Nothing found in system".
GeorgeGist
(25,293 posts)SOP.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Try again.
elbloggoZY27
(283 posts)Maybe overwhelming, but the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My question to the USADA is: How come you are the only Agency with the so called overwhelming evidence.
When it comes to sex and drug scandals I believe very little of this so called overwhelming evidence.
My case in point is a parent of a young child was accused and charged with her heinous murder in Illinois and was completely exonerated when the real killer was charged and found guilty. The father received a huge award for a wrongful conviction.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Read some of the accounts of Lance threatening family of other team members (for example, Levi Leipheimer affidavit)
http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/
Lance is a megalomaniacal prick.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Based on bank records obtained by USADA:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-lance-armstrong-paid-ferrari-more-than-dollar-1-million
Ferrari, of course, is the notorious doctor known for involvement with doping, and who once famously asserted that EPO was no more dangerous than orange juice. I wonder what excuse the Armstrong PR team will come up with for this.
DotGone
(182 posts)Wasn't that quote attributed to him? Then again, his clients rarely if ever cheated since he was the best in the business.
wrong place...
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)'blame the french!'
'government vendetta!'
'only one side of the story!'
'cancer research!'
'buy my bracelets!'
'it's not about the bike!'
It's about time they stfu.
He's guilty as hell.