'Compassionless': Lawsuit says Bernie Sanders campaign demoted staffer day after cancer surgery
Source: NBC News
July 10, 2020, 6:26 PM EDT / Updated July 10, 2020, 6:35 PM EDT
By Dareh Gregorian
The former California political director for Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign says she was demoted a day after undergoing cancer surgery and forced to quit after the campaign ignored her harassment and discrimination complaints.
In a lawsuit filed Friday in Los Angeles Superior Court, Susie Shannon said it was the Sanders' campaign's "outrageous and compassionless conduct" that "resulted in her forced resignation solely because she had the misfortune of being diagnosed with ovarian cancer that required major surgery to treat the disease."
The campaign then tried to get her to sign a non-disclosure agreement in return for money, the suit says. Shannon's lawyer, Micha Star Liberty, told NBC News the campaign also offered her client two months of health insurance if she signed. Shannon refused.
"It's so disappointing that a political campaign that purported to stand for so much, including access to healthcare and workers' rights, would behave this way," Liberty said.
Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/compassionless-lawsuit-says-bernie-sanders-campaign-demoted-staffer-day-after-n1233346
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)...ASAP!!!
George II
(67,782 posts)JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)..."Why Not"?
sheshe2
(83,710 posts)No job, no income. So if we had Universal Healthcare, she would have healthcare that is not really free and still be out of a job with no income.
Fearing "losing her health insurance," Shannon said she felt she had to get back to work. She was released from the hospital on Oct. 10th, and began working that morning, the suit says.
"Because Shannon had open surgery, she had hundreds of stitches inside and outside the abdominal cavity. She was not able to pick up anything, not even pots or pans. Shannons friends and family took shifts helping to prepare food, clean the house, and take her daughter to and from school," and had to help her move her laptop around and get to and from work events, the suit says.[/div
Sad that this happened in a campaign that said the are the champions of working people. They are not.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)...that's enough for me. Sorry, it's not for all of us. I don't know how else to say it.
(tears)
sheshe2
(83,710 posts)brer cat
(24,544 posts)Would it prevent her from being demoted after surgery for cancer? Would it prevent harassment and discrimination? What do you think about the Sanders campaign offering her money to sign a non-disclosure agreement? I read the entire article and I saw no tie-in to Universal Healthcare.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)It's evil to sell insurance on USA citizens healthcare.
I still don't know how better to it than our own great President Clinton who demanded Universal Healthcare in his first STOU speech.
Or am I so old I'm the only one that remembers?
(tears again)
lapucelle
(18,231 posts)From our 2016 platform:
Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. Thanks to the hard work of President Obama and Democrats in Congress, we took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act, which has covered 20 million more Americans and ensured millions more will never be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. As part of that guarantee, Americans should be able to access public coverage through a public option, and those over 55 should be able to opt in to Medicare. Democrats will empower the states, which are the true laboratories of democracy, to use innovation waivers under the ACA to develop unique locally tailored approaches to health coverage. This will include removing barriers to states which seek to experiment with plans to ensure universal health care to every person in their state. By contrast, Donald Trump wants to repeal the ACA, leaving tens of millions of Americans without coverage
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)betsuni
(25,447 posts)"Why is it [universal health care] not part of the Biden platform at this point?" But it is!
Bernie answered that Biden has "moved a whole lot" and now "proposes to lower the eligibility for Medicare from 65 to 60" and lower pharmaceutical costs. BUT THE 2016 PLATFORM WAS MEDICARE AT 55 AND ACA WITH PUBLIC OPTION AND LOWER PHARMA COSTS AND MORE.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)UHC, and any other leader's proposal is not UHC.
Very status quo political branding technique.
betsuni
(25,447 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)One would think that Senator Sanders of all people would understand the ramifications of this action, especially in a campaign.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)How so?
Cha
(297,029 posts)peoli
(3,111 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Of course they are going to deny it. It looks very bad for the campaign and them if they don't. I suppose that we'll hear that the upper management didn't know about what was going on.
But I think that the HR records will show who's more credible.
Why do you think Senator Sanders would hire such a blatant liar as you seem to think Ms. Shannon is such for an important position in his campaign? Vetting problems?
George II
(67,782 posts)....of this woman.
If you think it would, could you explain please?
Thanks.
peoli
(3,111 posts)I hope you and your family are well.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Because the implicatiions are pretty disturbing, particularly in light of Sanders' campaign statements and positions on healthcare and labor rights.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)So there's that.
George II
(67,782 posts)....demoted because of her surgery (regardless of how that surgery was paid for), harassed, and then forced to quit.
Nothing in any universal healthcare proposals cover employee demotion or harassment.
peoli
(3,111 posts)Stop attacking me, I am only trying to help you
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Response to peoli (Reply #204)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.
peoli
(3,111 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)It's rather disturbing in light of the Senator's statements during his campaign concerning labor rights.
peoli
(3,111 posts)The health insurance industry is a living, breathing harassment to every citizen of this country. It's a scam and a half.
Also, if we had Medicare for ALL perhaps she, like millions of others, wouldn't be terrified of losing their health insurance....perhaps she would have felt like she didn't have to rush back to work.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)the biggest friend to labor, proudly proclaiming itself the first to have it's staff organize into a union? Are you saying that the employer was justified in harrassing and demoting her for choosing to return to work for whatever reason, having a paycheck to pay the rent being among them?
What reaction do you think Sanders would have had about any other candidate campaign that faced allegations of ignoring harassment and discrimination complaints?
Why do you think that tried to make her sign an NDA, if indeed they thought how they handled this was all well and good?
Perhaps you missed this in the OP, or you wouldn't say that she felt she needed to rush back to work because she was "terrified" that "she would lose her health care" - she wasn't being told that she was losing her health care, but that she was being demoted.
The day after the surgery, the suit says, Shannon got a phone call in her hospital room from Rafael Navar, the campaign's state director, telling her she was being demoted.
Navar bluntly stated that he had no confidence in her ability to do her job given her cancer and surgery and that he was bringing in someone else to do her job," the suit says.
peoli
(3,111 posts)I am not sure what the 'harassment' is but the campaign obviously needed someone to take over her position.
Here is a link to her tweet after surgery. She doesn't seem too upset here
Link to tweet
?s=20
Not sure what happened after that but I am sure that you have no clue either and I am also sure that another presidential candidate faced some ALLEGATIONS earlier this year and oh boy if anyone dare posted anything about that they would no longer be members of DU and you can take that to the bank.
Here is a quote from another source
Because Shannon had open surgery, she had hundreds of stitches inside and outside the abdominal cavity. She was not able to pick up anything, not even pots or pans. Shannons friends and family took shifts helping to prepare food, clean the house, and take her daughter to and from school, and had to help her move her laptop around and get to and from work events.
https://www.legalreader.com/bernie-sanders-campaign-hit-with-lawsuit-for-demoting-staffer-after-cancer-surgery/
So my question is why are you so eager to drive Bernie Sanders into the dirt and why is that allowed on DU?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)This incident and the reporting of it clearly has you upset at the person who reported harassment and wrongful demotion, and anyone who finds labor abuse to be unacceptable.
Perhaps you should think about the reasons for that.
I see you also clearly have some issues with Biden and his candidacy. Perhaps you want to reconsider those, or perhaps consider another board to post on.
The bitter, not so subtle reference to the Tara Reade allegation doesn't take into account that Reade wasn't Biden's California State director, and that accusation has been debunked, unlike this one. If you want to "drive Biden into the dirt" as you put it, by bringing up Reade, you may want to refrain from accusing others of doing so with a much more reliable, recent and highly placed source.
But since you doubt her honesty, why do you think that the Sanders campaign would hire someone who would lie for such a prominent position in the campaign? Faulty vetting?
they rely on NDAs where there are problems with staff|What would your reaction to the Biden campaign relying on NDA's be?
peoli
(3,111 posts)Perhaps you should consider the fact that Joe Biden has embraced and welcomed Bernie Sanders and that Bernie Sanders is influencing Joe Biden as seen in the DRAMATIC evolution of Joe Biden's recently announced green energy plan.
Perhaps you should consider your issues with progressives who are full on Democrats and part of Democratic Underground and the Democratic Party
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Zipped right past that question about the NDA. I don't blame you... that's gotta be awkward.
Response to ehrnst (Reply #193)
peoli This message was self-deleted by its author.
peoli
(3,111 posts)peoli
(3,111 posts)peoli
(3,111 posts)peoli
(3,111 posts)Do you have any other questions for me?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)What's the old saying?
"How can I miss you if you don't go away?"
Perhaps it's for the best. You seem to be very upset about what's being reporting on in the OP, to the point of replying with several non-sequiturs.
Malmsy
(297 posts)Please don't go there.
peoli
(3,111 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)DenverJared
(457 posts)Are you referring to Tara Reade who was thoroughly and humiliatingly discredited?
This is Democratic board and we support Joe Biden around here.
Response to DenverJared (Reply #194)
Post removed
DenverJared
(457 posts)Such things are not lost on DU.
peoli
(3,111 posts)If you can't figure out why I posted it then I'm sorry for you
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)allegations.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)So come on down off that horse.
And everyone saw what you did there with the allegations.
peoli
(3,111 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Rafel Navar? The person who not only demoted her from her position as California Campaign chair, but got the position when she was taken out?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rafael-n%C3%A1var-9a2b214
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last I heard this is Democratic Underground, and Biden is the Democratic candidate for POTUS.
That seems to get under your skin.
There are other sites where Biden bashing is de rigeur, and you may be more comfortable there.
la-trucker
(283 posts)(for some people)
JI7
(89,244 posts)olegramps
(8,200 posts)What I want to know if Sander's had any knowledge of this taking place. If he doesn't respond I will be highly suspect of his innocence in this matter.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)And yet again, attempt to drive the narrative elsewhere.
The deification of one man often illustrates how easily and quickly we place our sacred cows on golden thrones... even when at the expense of a suffering staff member.
You have of course, fully advertised the realization of your character... whether for good or ill is a debate you must hold with yourself in due course.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)la-trucker
(283 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Universal Healthcare has been a part of the Democratic Platform for awhile now.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Sigh
TexasTowelie
(112,065 posts)I hope that the union takes a position of advocacy for Ms. Shannon.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)...Correct?
George II
(67,782 posts)JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)...Why not enough for you???
sheshe2
(83,710 posts)That is not a winning issue. This isn't about heathcare, this is about a lack of compassion for your female employee that had her uterus removed. I can't even imagine the devastating pain she is going through both emotionally and physically.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)I thought Joe Biden was OUR candidate?
(more tears)
George II
(67,782 posts)JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Or, are you just plain against both Universal Healthcare and Bernie?
(see, we all have questions)
George II
(67,782 posts)JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)For some odd reason.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)peoli
(3,111 posts)And the accused says the allegations totally false. So we shouldn't rush to immediately become the judge and the jury, should we now?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)This was interesting:
A spokesman for the Sanders campaign, Mike Casca, said, "We've not received this lawsuit and we don't comment on litigation."
This was interesting too. It makes me wonder why they were so concerned about secrecy... what are they hiding?
The campaign then tried to get her to sign a non-disclosure agreement in return for money, the suit says. Shannon's lawyer, Micha Star Liberty, told NBC News the campaign also offered her client two months of health insurance if she signed. Shannon refused.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)obamanut2012
(26,063 posts)He is also the accused, and says the allegations are totally false. So we shouldn't rush to immediately become the judge and the jury for him, either, as per your rationale.
When the heck does an accused in a case ever say they are guilty, unless they've cut a deal? Literally almost never.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)BTW, Arturo Carmona denied all allegations as well, despite being moved to another position by HR after harassment reports.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Got it.
sheshe2
(83,710 posts)This is about a young woman, not Bernie. Not one word about her, only Bernie.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Just like many of the rest of us.
We need "breaking news" about the need for solution instead of a gratuitous hit piece on a former candidate.
peggysue2
(10,826 posts)Or more importantly 'who' pushed the hit piece? We just read that there was an 87% crossover from the Sanders' campaign to Joe Biden, a big increase from 2016. My question would be who benefits from a piece like this? That's not to diminish this woman's anger. I'd be angry, too. But . . .
The question remains: who benefits by trying to split the Democratic coalition, uneasy and rough around the edges as it may be.
Who benefits from a "Democrats in disarray" moment?
It sure ain't us (Dems) or anyone who wants to save the country from the clutches of Trumpism.
Just saying.
gab13by13
(21,285 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)for Sanders that has a complaint about Sanders Campaign.
The person who is complaining did not work for Biden or any of the other democrats who ran for President.
Why do you see this as a threat to the democratic coalition ?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The only conclusion I can draw is because it doesn't deify one particular politician...
Just saying. Part II.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... you're not likely to receive a reply. Emotional outbursts are not facts, and it's difficult to make one's case (either for or against something) based solely on emotion.
peggysue2
(10,826 posts)I'm asking why would NBC push a story like this?
The primary fight is long over. A dispute between a former campaign director and the Sanders' people isn't exactly front page news. It's a big story for the woman involved and it certainly doesn't make Bernie Sanders' or his former campaign members look good. But in the larger scheme of things I simply wonder about the 'why,' particularly after reading this week that 87% of former Bernie Sanders' people are supporting Joe Biden's campaign. That's a substantial increase over the 2016 numbers and I'm sure I'm not the only one who noted that upward spike.
I don't think we should kid ourselves about outside forces that will do ANYTHING to shave off voters for Biden. A few voters here, a few over there and the numbers start to pile up. The GOP and their Trumpian enablers are frantically searching for a way to turn this thing around; they're in major-duty trouble and they know it.
Just saying, Part III.
JI7
(89,244 posts)why do you turn it into something having to do with Biden and the current general election campaign ?
peggysue2
(10,826 posts)So, we end up catfighting over this issue but it extends itself out to the animosity that's been brewing between Democratic factions since 2016. I'm not saying this woman doesn't have a legitimate complaint. I'd be pissed and hurt, too. But this is something Sanders and his former campaign people need to sort out. It's internal to the Sanders' former presidential campaign which is now irrelevant to the bigger picture and the fight ahead.
Anything that uses energy or distracts from the goal of winning in November is counterproductive in my mind. Anything that gets us fighting amongst ourselves is equally counterproductive. I simply question why a major news outlet would consider this story important enough to cover, particularly on the heels of the stats published about different elements within the Democratic Party genuinely coalescing around Joe Biden.
Color me suspicious. End of story.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Perhaps you weren't around to see the glee on the part of some here on DU when it was revealed after the election that a Clinton staffer was accused of harassment during her campaign.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)here on DU, and much discussed.
peggysue2
(10,826 posts)It's 2020. We're facing the election of our lives right now, an election that will determine the future of the country, whether we shall actually have a future or not. Anything that distracts from our success in that endeavor and/or has groups within the Democratic Party fighting with one another is counterproductive.
Yes, harassment is an issue. There are a lot of issues to be addressed. But right now? Keeping ourselves focused, united and marching in one direction is a far bigger issue than whipping old wounds. And yes, I am suspicious of any story in the news attempting to undermine our laser focus on November 3rd, particularly when it directly follows reports indicating Democratic factions have coalesced on a single goal--throwing Trump out on his fat, wrinkled ass.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)with Biden's chances? Is reporting on any former Democratic candidates in a way that doesn't flatter them also a danger to Biden's chances?
Do you think that there are Sanders voters who will refuse to vote for a Democrat if they think that Sanders is being criticized at all?
Are you saying you think that unless this woman is soundly discredited by the Party, or at least ignored, that some voters will retaliate by not voting for Biden?
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Hillary suspended him, demoted him and ordered him to go for counseling, even though he didn't formally proposition her, or threaten her job. By the standards of 2007 that was remarkably forward thinking.
The staffer was transferred to a different job, where she flourished and built her career. HRC made her feel listened to, respected, valued and believed. Years later she happily took Hillary's call.
Glenn Thrush told many distortions, manipulation and border-line outright lies in his articles. That's why this story didn't last too long on the media's list of attacks against Hillary--they didn't know how to deal with the dishonesty by a fellow journalist, so they just pretend like it never happened.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Seems a lot of those male reporters who truly had it out for Hillary wound up being creeps to the women they worked with as well.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)from the reporting of a harrasment claim in a campaign, and if it's Senator Sanders, then apparently it's a "hit piece."
Why do you tie reporting about harrasement claims to "Democrats in dissarray" and how does this reporting harm Joe Biden's chances, or puts us in the "clutches of Trumpism?"
If Senator Sanders seeks the spotlight of national stage and the media, especially claiming leadership on labor issues, then people should not be offended when the spotlight also reveals something that an NDA tried to keep quiet.
There cannot be one standard for Sanders own employees concerning workers rights or or health policy and another for everyone else to be held to. That is what "Trumpism" claims for Trump, and we're above that.
Right?
After all, what would Sanders say about these allegations being made against any other candidate?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Got it.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)In fact, she turned down 2 months of health care coverage from the campaign because they were going to require an NDA from her in return.
As long as a politician is seeking the national spotlight, and a major role in writing the Democratic platform -especially on worker rights - what goes with their own staffers affects their credibility on the topic.
Would you, or other Sanders supporters be giving any other candidate a pass on this?
JI7
(89,244 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Who is it exactly that we're not supposed to believe?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,065 posts)The facts do not back up your statement and Bernie only topped out at about 35%. That isn't winning.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Why wouldn't universal healthcare be a winning issue? Seriously, let's put aside any pointless animus one may feel towards Bernie or whoever, and let's just look at what you're now arguing. Universal healthcare should be right up there, along with things like an end to racial inequality, a living wage, and protecting democracy (sorry, that's my long-distance idea of what's important in the US right now). Don't let not liking any politician, whoever they may be is, let people lose sight of what's really important...
Having said that, there's one issue that overrides all others right now, and that's to get rid of Trump. Which is why I don't care whether Biden supports universal healthcare or not. I'm kind of suspecting he may anyway....
Let me tell you a joke I saw on the Guardian yesterday. It made me chuckle:
Q - What's bordering on stupidity?
A - Mexico and Canada!
TexasTowelie
(112,065 posts)If the idea of universal healthcare fails at the ballot box among Democrats, then I fail to see where it is going to catch on among conservatives. We can jump and shout about healthcare until high noon, but until proof is provided that a new healthcare system can be constructed that is more cost-efficient than the current system, doesn't ration healthcare, and that minimizes government's role in healthcare, then the idea of universal healthcare is beyond the "sell by" date for most voters.
As a Republican coworker once told me, the Democrats may have good intentions with their plans but the end results don't always jibe with those intentions. Americans by their very nature do not trust government--Democrats don't trust Republicans when they are in charge and vice versa. Democrats can't agree among themselves when two or three options are presented; meanwhile, Republicans don't present any options whatsoever and aren't even willing to accept the status quo as evidenced by the repeated attempts to nullify the Affordable Care Act.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Canada's your next-door neighbour, so there's the familiarity factor. The US has a massive ball of yarn-tangles to be dealt with when it comes to health insurance that other countries like mine haven't had to deal with because we've had universal health care from the start (at least during my lifetime!). And as you mentioned, there's the distrust of government thing happening in the US. I personally don't get it. I don't trust authority, but I do trust that my government will do the right thing by us in a crisis (which it surprisingly did for the pandemic). Universal healthcare is an issue for 2024, imo. Get Trump out and then the air may clear enough for it to be dealt with
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That took over 15 years, then a very liberal government was elected in 1968, and added a federal layer.
Single payer was voted down in Colorado and didn't even make it to the ballot in CA and VT, so no, we won't be doing it the way Canada did. It helps to know some history.
Also, Canada didn't start in 2020, with a very entrenched system, so I think that "copy and paste" would take a lot longer than you might think.
It seems simple, but it's not.
DFW
(54,329 posts)The Guardian is a bit slow on the uptake if they only published that joke this week.
It was making the rounds in Germany a couple of months ago, and I posted it on DU at the time.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I spotted it posted in the comments section and the person who posted it said it was an old one. I just hadn't seen it before. It's sooo good, though. I had a self-righteous moment of 'People don't make jokes like that about Australia!" when I read it
George II
(67,782 posts)... possibly harassing an employee to get her to quit her job because her ability to do that was diminished due to her cancer surgery. If that proves to be the case that is a clear violation of the law.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I'd really like to believe that even when an employee's rights don't stretch to them being protected and safe in a job when they're suffering something horrible like cancer, their employer would do whatever's reasonably possible to help them get through a really difficult period.
But the US does need universal healthcare. That way even if a shit employer does the wrong thing, it's not the end of the world for the employee when it comes to getting medical treatment
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)It has been chipped away at by the GOP, but Democrats were swept into office in 2018 on the promise of fixing it and getting it back on track to full implementation.
Perhaps you are unclear on the defintion of Universal Health Care?
Universal healthcare (also called universal health coverage, universal coverage, or universal care) is a health care system in which all residents of a particular country or region are assured access to health care.
Single payer is one way that countries achieve UHC, albeit a rare one. Most are a hybrid of payers and partnerships with state, local and private entities to deliver care.
Single payer/Medicare for All is to Universal Health Care as toy poodle is to canine. One can acquire a canine without it being a toy poodle.
I hope that clears things up for you!
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)But thanks for your attempt to explain it for anyone who's not aware of what it is. If I were to ever try to explain it to someone from a country that already has universal healthcare, I sure wouldn't be claiming that the US already has universal healthcare in the form of ACA. ACA was a small step in the right direction, but not by any stretch of the imagination can it be considered an example of universal healthcare...
on edit: I just went and took a look at the Democratic Party platform on healthcare as I figured they'd be in support of some level of improvement on what you all have now, but wasn't sure how far they're pushing.
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/the-issues/health-care/#:~:text=%E2%80%9C%20Democrats%20have%20been%20fighting%20to%20secure%20universal,passed%20Medicare%2C%20Medicaid%2C%20and%20the%20Affordable%20Care%20Act.%E2%80%9D
I got a sense of resting on the laurels of ACA and working to protect and preserve it, which is understandable given the attempts to dismantle it. But they seem aware that ACA isn't universal healthcare, and that more needs to be done to bring the US in line with the healthcare systems of other countries...
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2020, 11:23 AM - Edit history (1)
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/universal-health-coverage-(uhc)
Since you needed to look up what's in the Democratic platform to find out what we are doing, here is some information on the ACA:
The ACA was scheduled to expand further over the next decade, as HRC was discussing during the 2016 general election (expanding the age to buy into Medicare down to age 55 and insuring all children up to age 18, for instance). The GOP has chipped away at it, and it needs to be restored and put back on track. There is no "resting on the laurels" of anything, so focusing on getting the ACA back to where it needs to be is indeed bringing the US in line with the healthcare systems of other countries.
Perhaps you aren't aware that most other countries do not use single payer as UHC, but different customized and often tweaked and updated hybrid payer and public/private partnership programs, more like the ACA than what Canada and the UK have. For instance Australia has a public/private partnership to attain UHC. (even then, it doesn't cover everything. )
Here is some information on that:
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/02/21/universal-health-care
I also don't know if you're aware that the SCOTUS here in the states has become more conservative. If the 2010 SCOTUS ruled that states did not have to participate in Medicaid eligibility expansion to childless adults and those who are making minimum wage, there is very little chance that the SCOTUS of 2021 is going to rule that states must participate in a Medicare expansion to the entire population.
The US is very different from other countries in many ways. Maybe you haven't heard that simply wearing masks as a public health protection measure has been demonized as a political statement against Trump.
I hope this gives you some understanding of how much more complicated the situation here in the US is compared to other countries, and why the solutions to the US situation are going to be far less simple than one might assume.
To wit:
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Universal healthcare is a system where every citizen resident has access to medical treatment that won't leave them with out-of-pocket expenses. My understanding is that ACA gave every US citizen access to private health insurance policies, which is a bit of a different thing. What my country gives is basic medical care for all citizens or permanent residents. There's going to be things that lie outside that, like drugs that haven't been yet been approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration, treatments that aren't available in Australia etc. But for most people like me, who break our legs or have a stroke or get Covid, our system will fix us up and send us home and not charge us a cent.
I'm assuming that ACA will expand further under Biden once he's cleaned up the almighty fucked up mess left behind by Trump, and ACA will probably be the path for the US to get what we have in other countries. I hope that happens, and that health insurance is uncoupled from employment (my niece was WTF??? when she got a job with Costco when they opened here and the American head honcos offered everyone health insurance).
Anyway, don't get me wrong. I totally get how different it is in the US, and how what seems simple to me, simply isn't. An example (and I'm embarrassed now to admit it) is that I blamed Obama for not enacting enough change, and didn't realise till far too late that the Republicans controlled the Senate and did their best to destroy what he tried to enact...
My head honestly hurts when I see things about wearing masks in the US. What has happened to common-sense??? Though with a massive outbreak in Melbourne and state borders closed, a Melbourne based conspiracy theorist managed to get past the roadblocks and get to Canberra to attend some protest where people without masks complain about wearing a mask in a city where only the very vulnerable wear masks anyway. After thinking up some Game of Thrones-style punishments (being refused bail just wasn't enough for me given I have elderly parents and a child who's high risk. My rage levels are pretty high after a three-month lockdown), I decided deporting the wanker to his soul mates in the US was the best option. Unfortunately, no-one listens to me
I don't know if anything like this has happened in the US yet, but it's happened in Melbourne. Words cant describe how disgusted I am with whoever did this...
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-melbourne-fake-playground-sign-says-children-can-use-equipment/news-story/da826fa849dc6ba1f18e2dc14e4d4d84
Stay safe (assuming yr in the US)
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)No, that is not the definition of UHC, as I pointed out before. That's a common misconception, and unfortunately, many people refuse to believe it when corrected. Since you rejected the WHO definition, here are some dollar amounts of out of pocket expenses in countries that you agree have UHC:
....................................
We found that out-of-pocket costs reported by Canadian respondents were comparable to those in Australia, greater than those in the UK and New Zealand, and much less than those in the US.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5595213/
Health care funding will never be completely uncoupled from employers, even if it's available separately from employers, as all countries with UHC have some form of cost sharing and adminstration with employers.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts).....
The Democratic Party has evolved over the last half-century, as any party does over a long period of time. But the basic ideological cast of its economic policy has not changed dramatically since the New Deal. American liberals have always had some room for markets in their program. Democrats, accordingly, have never been a left-wing, labor-dominated socialist party. (Union membership peaked in 1955, two decades before the partys supposed neoliberal turn, and has declined steadily since.) They have mediated between business and labor, supporting expanded state power episodically rather than dogmatically. The widespread notion that neoliberals have captured the modern Democratic party and broken from its historic mission plays upon nostalgia for a bygone era, when the real thing was messier and more compromised than the sanitized historical memory.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/how-neoliberalism-became-the-lefts-favorite-insult.html
frazzled
(18,402 posts)I think that was the main allegation. I dont think we should try to deflect from that or ignore it.
I reserve judgment on whether the allegations are true or not.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)No employer can demote or fire someone BECAUSE they have cancer, but an employer can demote or fire someone DESPITE them having cancer. As long as cancer (or any other illness) isn't the reason for someone being sacked, then of course an employer has a right to performance manage their staff.
Also, healthcare shouldn't be linked to employment. It isn't here in Australia, and we have universal healthcare where I know that if I were to get cancer (or COVID-19), I'm not going to have to sell the soul of my oldest child to be able to pay hefty hospital bills. Medicare covers it all and it doesn't matter if I'm employed or not. Why is it so difficult for the US to do what most other countries have done? I guess for the same reason that COVID-19 is out of control in the US, but has been suppressed relatively successfully in many other countries
frazzled
(18,402 posts)that the very campaign pushing for such single-payer insurance threw this woman to the wolves. Its hypocrisy plus severe lack of compassion.
THAT is the point of this thread.
Also, please understand the difference between universal and single payer. The original Obamacare, compromised as it was, provided universal coverage, not tied to employment. It was not able to achieve a single-payer government option, and the courts allowed states to opt out of expanded Medicaid coverage.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)some important ways.
In Australia, there is a higher concentration of the population in the urban areas, which makes delivery there much easier and cheaper than a country with a larger % of rural populations.
And I'm assuming you don't live in a rural area, because the health care delivery there, especially for first nations peoples is inferior to that in urban areas.
Also, Australia didn't start where the US is now, in 2020, with a very baked in private system.
Australia started back in 1974, and it's much easier to keep costs down than to cut them.
Karma13612
(4,547 posts)Who have their own insurance offered to their employees as a group:
The employees are a risk pool which determines the premiums rates the employer and employee pay for insurance.
A diagnosis of cancer in an otherwise fairly healthy risk pool could place those contractual premiums at further risk of increasing the next time the contract is negotiated. I had a boss once who told us we couldnt smoke. It was tied directly to his health insurance contract with the health insurance company.
So, if he sees risk, he is going to want to mitigate it.
Yea, that is a horrible thing to do to someone.
But, dont forget that this employee will now file for unemployment insurance And be able to recuperate without the stress of a job.
On the other hand, they now have the stress of no health insurance.
And that, kiddies, is why health insurance should not be tied to employment.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)to my spouse when he had cancer and ran up untold medical costs over the course of a year, fully paid by his employers insurance. Au contraire, he was given every consideration.
I cant believe the inhumanity of some of thse techno-bureaucratic, economically focused posts.
Does humanity count for nothing?
Im kind of done with this.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)Put a Republican name in the headline and you would see almost every defender here trashing that repugs campaign as heartless.
Karma13612
(4,547 posts)I am not saying it is fair or just.
The facts I stated are not a law. Nowhere did I say that this MUST happen.
What I was saying is that employers will minimize risk when they can, and it can be inhumane.
Not sure if you are directing your anger at the right person (me)
George II
(67,782 posts)....an employer seemingly demoted and harassed an employee because her performance may have been diminished due to the after affects of cancer surgery. Health insurance did not play a factor in this.
Things like this happen more frequently than it should, which is why most states and the Federal government have strict laws to prevent it from happening.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)For his HR department to treat her this way, considering his campaign platform, and his insistence on driving a national discussion on health care and labor rights, it's relevant.
He could have made the cost of health care of his employees a discussion point, and how he was going to do what was right by her, even though it would cost him money.
But he didn't. And his campaign was making her sign an NDA in order to get two months of coverage after she left... so they knew that it would be a bad look.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)with the fact that Sanders campaign is being sued for treating one of their employees in this manner.
....Correct?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Universal healthcare, just different from Bernie's plan.
tirebiter
(2,535 posts)Im going to wait and see the details from unbiased sources
George II
(67,782 posts)tirebiter
(2,535 posts)Their sources may be. Biden got a lot of stuff thrown at him From very established outlets that didnt stick upon review.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Bengus81
(6,931 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)tirebiter
(2,535 posts)The source may be a plant. You gotta separate the dots to itemize the chain. Any follow up?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And if she was hired as the California Political Director for the Sanders Campaign, what does that say about the vetting process for upper level staffers?
Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)I will withhold judgement either way until all the facts from all sides are presented.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and who is lying.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)...anti-Bernie crowd trying to divide us for some odd reason. It will not work. No matter how nasty they get, we will elect Joe Biden anyway.
George II
(67,782 posts)peoli
(3,111 posts)reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)... reported this story? Why not?
peoli
(3,111 posts)reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)... Hahaha doesn't provide anything much for any sort of interpretation. I was hoping you might want to provide some more thoughtful commentary. Guess I was mistaken.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Ahpook
(2,749 posts)Wait till Biden comes in the cross hairs, cause it is coming big fucking time.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #12)
MrsCoffee This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I've heard that before.
Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)Seems like they are just reporting a lawsuit and what is in it. The Sanders campaign said they will not comment on legal matters.
They have two options, they could either report on it, or they could ignore it. I think I would have a harsher opinion if they refused to report on it. I mean, how would we feel if the media refused to do any reporting on lawsuits against Trump?
I do think it's unfortunate that so many people automatically assume it has to be true, rather than just taking it for what it is. Which is one person's side of the story about a wrong she says was done to her.
dlk
(11,539 posts)And silence from Bernie.
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)...Bernie voters in Novemer?
George II
(67,782 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Because I voted differently than you in the primary?
Or just another personal hit on me?
George II
(67,782 posts)...Bernie voters in Novemer?
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Question the hit piece on Bernie you posted first.
George II
(67,782 posts)sheshe2
(83,710 posts)Please proceed with your answer.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Is it because you will never find fault with anything Sanders says or does?
greatauntoftriplets
(175,729 posts)sheshe2
(83,710 posts)The worst pandemic we have ever seen since 1918 and you are saying Bernie voters are not going to vote?
Do you have a link to that?
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Please stop lying about me!!!
George II
(67,782 posts)...Bernie voters in Novemer?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2535254
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)Not just divisive "breaking news" which does not help anyone.
George II
(67,782 posts)...Bernie voters in Novemer?
Gore1FL
(21,119 posts)He didn't say it about himself, he was identifying cause and effect. Rather than arguing whether that assessment had merit, you made a straw man.
sheshe2
(83,710 posts)34. I Never said I would not vote for Joe!!!!!
Please stop lying about me!!!
You mentioned Bernie supporters, I was not with you in the voting booth so have no clue who you voted for.
You are making a false accusation of me and my intent. I NEVER accused you of lying, L am following your own words. You said WE not I ( you yourself). Please do not make my words to be something they are not.
17. Do we want the votes of us...
...Bernie voters in Novemer?
I read your post as Bernie supporters in general since you generalized and said..'We" Do we want the votes of us...
...Bernie voters in Novemer?
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)I have nothing to do with anything here, but only my own opinion.
Regardless, if I'm fortunate to vote a solid Dem ticket in November, I promise you I will vote for Joe Biden.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I'd be pretty annoyed about the lack of choice and the two-horse-race thing, though. I really like Bernie Sanders and think the US would have been far improved with him as President, but it wasn't to be. The election in November is a stark and very binary choice between saving American democracy, or destroying it and turning the US into an authoritarian style banana republic with President Trump For Ever. I think Biden is a bit vanilla, bland, and centrist, but he's a good and honest person and he'll do well in undoing much of the damage that's been done to the US. With the recent tension with China, the world needs the US to be a global leader instead of what it's become...
Gore1FL
(21,119 posts)It's best to ignore them.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)17. Do we want the votes of us...
...Bernie voters in Novemer?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)of news stories concerning the Sanders 2020 campaign?
Really?
Skittles
(153,138 posts)no surprise
JoeOtterbein
(7,700 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Pretense is the last trick one often has to maintain the reserved status of sacred cows.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 12, 2020, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)
All I'm trying to say is this: It's not the legitimate news story that's divisive... instead, it's ugly accusations and rude name-calling like that (ie: "sore winners'') that's actually divisive. Why would you say such a thing? What good purpose does it serve?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I've seen some sore posts in this thread, but they aren't by Biden supporters.
cstanleytech
(26,276 posts)"We are sorry but we have to replace you however as soon as you are well enough and feel up to it we will gladly do everything we can to find you another position.".
MichMan
(11,899 posts)Sanders conceded defeat and withdrew. I'm not clear on how long his campaign staff would expect to be employed anyway ?
cstanleytech
(26,276 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)smh
Cha
(297,029 posts)Shannon said she was "devastated" and reached out to campaign adviser Chuck Rocha, Navar's supervisor. He "casually responded that he supported Navar in whatever decision he decided to make," the suit says. It does not name Rocha as a defendant.
Cha
(297,029 posts)An emboldened Navar "continuously scolded, undermined," criticized and ostracized Shannon, despite her continuing to perform her duties "fully and successfully," the suit says.
After further complaints about his behavior were ignored, Shannon "felt that she had no other choice but to resign" in December, the suit says.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/compassionless-lawsuit-says-bernie-sanders-campaign-demoted-staffer-day-after-n1233346
betsuni
(25,447 posts)I thought their campaign had a heck of a lot of money. Why not a little compassion? I wonder what the "movement" and "revolution" is really all about.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)These are all very astute and accurate observations. Also legitimate questions that deserve to be answered.
George II
(67,782 posts)....of more than 20 ex-staffers and Sanders to discuss income inequality, sexual harassment, and sexual abuse on the previous campaign.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/bernie-sanders-sexual-harassment-campaign-meeting-2020/index.html
KG
(28,751 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)2 to 6 weeks taking the campaign into November. Any need for chemo or radiation would have increased the time away from the campaign unless she didn't reach adversely to chemo or radiation therapy. Navar handled the change/demotion badly but given the time frame of politicking, the demotion should not have been a surprise for her. Primary was scheduled for March 3rd so 5 months left to campaign for the primary. I assume demotion would have kept her on the insurance. She was the political director not a minor position in the campaign. Any campaign unless it is a winning one has a very short shelf life.
Betty88
(717 posts)I guess laws are different where I live. no one should have to go back to work a day after an operation. That just does not sound right. She should have gotten at least a few weeks to recover. I don't know any employer that would let her back in the office in that condition. I guess I am really lucky, well I know I am... When I was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer I had no fear of losing my health care over not returning to work. I had to fill out mountains of paperwork but was covered, intotal for over a year. I guess working for a good union did have its bennies.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)KWR65
(1,098 posts)This is why we need Medicare-for-all and worker protections.
George II
(67,782 posts)....had surgery and her employer harassed her because they didn't want her around anymore. It wasn't because of the cost or method of payment of her surgery, it was because in their eyes (or her immediate supervisor) she couldn't do the job anymore.
Again, Medicare-for-all would not have prevented her harassment or demotion.
We do have worker protections on the books - against age discrimination, gender discrimination, racial discrimination, etc. That is why her lawsuit is valid and if it goes to trial she will prevail.
KWR65
(1,098 posts)This is a problem with our society overall. This happens to tens of thousands of workers every year.
George II
(67,782 posts)....the EEOC. In CT it's the CHRO.
Worker protections don't prevent employers from discriminating or harassing employers. But the laws on the books allow an aggrieved employee to file a complaint with both the state and Federal Commissions. After going through the process of a complaint and disposition, then the employee can file a lawsuit.
Laws don't prevent abuse, but they provide a recourse for the employee.
obamanut2012
(26,063 posts)Which is why her suit is allowed to go forward. These laws do not deter employers who want to ignore them and harass and bully workers.
We also have laws against murder and rape, but again, those laws do nothing to stop folks who want to murder and rape someone. I wish we had laws against people driving drunk, so then we wouldn't have any DUIs. Oh, wait.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)and you still have to pay premiums for any health care...and how do you get a new job when you have cancer? It was a crappy thing to do...I would not have expected such a thing in a Democratic campaign.
obamanut2012
(26,063 posts)Literally zero.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)If any other campaign HR had ignored her reports of harassment, do you think he would have remained silent on it?
His staffers unionized.... and yet her basic right to have her harassment complaints acknowledged was not honored by the campaign.
If any other campaign had these allegations against them, would it be dismissed as something that happens to "tens of thousands or workers every year?"
Bernie promised us all better that that. Why do you think his own California Director was treated this way?
mcar
(42,289 posts)and heartless.
Catch2.2
(629 posts)Let's not jump to conclusions on what happened. This is why there is due process. Secondly, anti Bernie threads do not help unite us. The Primaries are over, Biden is our nominee. We need to unite to defeat Trump, not post threads attacking Senator Sanders.
obamanut2012
(26,063 posts)I bet you don't say that about Trump and his tax fraud.
An wtaf does this have to do with Biden??? Let me know when his campaign does this to a woman staff member, and I promise I will be the first to start an OP railing against what happened.
Catch2.2
(629 posts)You don't get it, and you probably won't . As for why I brought up Biden, because we need to support him and make sure he wins! I wasn't attacking him as it seems you think I did. We need to come together, it's not a hard concept.
obamanut2012
(26,063 posts)As shown by the words you write. They are writ in water.
Yes, you were attacking him.
Biden was my seventh choice, and I am all in for him, so don't lecture me, Skippy.
Catch2.2
(629 posts)I suggest you refrain from name calling.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)be posted on DU? Because it will help Trump?
That rule certainly hasn't applied to HRC.
LiberalArkie
(15,707 posts)from Sanders? It will be interesting to see if Sanders has to take the stand. Because as it stands I have to put it on Rafael Navar as someone wanting to make points. That is how it is done in the corporate world.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)issues, again and again. And unhappy employees are female far too often for that to be just coincidence.
If I were to guess, I'd assume he was hiring too many of his antagonistic populist bro types for upper management. The aggressive ones whose passion was for attacking Democrats? That's because, turns out, aggressive antagonistic populists tend to be at least somewhat socially conservative and misogynistic. And often very. (Of course.)
Whatever the reason, Sanders could long ago have put an end to his chronic labor problems and embarrassing national coverage of them by firing managers whose behavior contradicted his rhetoric. Period.
In fact, he could have replaced them with managers from those who were instead drawn by his idealistic socialist rhetoric. But they presumably would have wanted to provide fair, living, equal wages and benefits to everyone, including low-level employees, and we should assume that Sanders doesn't. He talks of a better world but operates in this one, where cutting labor costs leaves more money for future enterprises.
MichMan
(11,899 posts)Weeks, months, years ?
Voltaire2
(12,992 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)In this case, the day that Sanders withdrew/suspended the campaign dismissed Nina Turner, David Sirota, Briahnna Gray, and a few other upper level staffers. Probably many of the lower level staffers (those getting as low as $11/hour) stopped working but were given a month or two severance pay.
I think Weaver stayed on for a while (and may still be on the payroll)
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(297,029 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)We heard about this one in February.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/sanders-linked-group-entered-into-racial-discrimination-nda
truthisfreedom
(23,141 posts)I haven't read a single post, but AM I RIGHT?
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)it is just for them to learn, to hone their skills.