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Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:16 PM

Kavanaugh and Roberts Side with Liberals to Hand Environmentalists Huge Win; Alito Is Not Amused

Source: Law & Crime

Environmentalists scored a significant victory in the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday with help from some unusual suspects.

In a 6-3 opinion authored by Justice Stephen Breyer, two of the court’s conservatives–Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Brett Kavanaugh–joined with the four-member liberal minority in order to strengthen a key provision of the Clean Water Act (CWA) of 1972.

Stylized as County of Maui v. Hawaii Wildlife Fund, the case stems from a lawsuit filed by “several environmental groups” in 2012 which alleged that Maui’s use of a wastewater reclamation facility ran afoul of the CWA by pumping roughly four million gallons of treated wastewater into the Pacific Ocean every day without a permit.

Under the CWA, a permit is required for the “discharge of any pollutant” into U.S. waters–which is defined as “any addition of any pollutant to navigable waters from any point source [or] any addition of any pollutant to the waters of the contiguous zone or the ocean from any point source other than a vessel or other floating craft.”

The term “pollutant” is defined broadly by the nation’s longstanding environmental statute and also specifically includes “solid” and municipal…waste discharged into water.”

Read more: https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/kavanaugh-and-roberts-side-with-liberals-to-hand-environmentalists-huge-win-alito-is-not-amused/

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Reply Kavanaugh and Roberts Side with Liberals to Hand Environmentalists Huge Win; Alito Is Not Amused (Original post)
Calista241 Apr 2020 OP
Thekaspervote Apr 2020 #1
scarletwoman Apr 2020 #2
msongs Apr 2020 #3
marble falls Apr 2020 #19
mountain grammy Apr 2020 #28
Volaris Apr 2020 #39
killaphill Apr 2020 #51
Cha Apr 2020 #48
dhol82 Apr 2020 #4
stopdiggin Apr 2020 #6
yellowcanine Apr 2020 #11
lildDemz Apr 2020 #26
yellowcanine Apr 2020 #9
stopdiggin Apr 2020 #14
Renew Deal Apr 2020 #5
sandensea Apr 2020 #37
thesquanderer Apr 2020 #42
not fooled Apr 2020 #7
AllaN01Bear Apr 2020 #8
qazplm135 Apr 2020 #10
Jose Garcia Apr 2020 #16
qazplm135 Apr 2020 #17
Polybius Apr 2020 #18
qazplm135 Apr 2020 #20
BComplex Apr 2020 #12
bluestarone Apr 2020 #13
Kaleva Apr 2020 #15
dhol82 Apr 2020 #43
Kaleva Apr 2020 #52
dhol82 Apr 2020 #53
HotRod Deluxe Apr 2020 #21
tavernier Apr 2020 #27
jaxexpat Apr 2020 #22
JudyM Apr 2020 #31
oldsoftie Apr 2020 #34
jaxexpat Apr 2020 #41
dhol82 Apr 2020 #44
oldsoftie Apr 2020 #46
jaxexpat Apr 2020 #36
JudyM Apr 2020 #38
Dopers_Greed Apr 2020 #23
SunSeeker Apr 2020 #24
lastlib Apr 2020 #40
dhol82 Apr 2020 #45
Hekate Apr 2020 #25
Aristus Apr 2020 #29
dugog55 Apr 2020 #30
mpcamb Apr 2020 #47
Oppaloopa Apr 2020 #32
Johnyawl Apr 2020 #33
oldsoftie Apr 2020 #35
Steelrolled Apr 2020 #54
Orrex Apr 2020 #49
question everything Apr 2020 #50
Steelrolled Apr 2020 #55

Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:21 PM

1. Enemy of my enemy my friend

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:22 PM

2. It's nice to see a bit of good news for a change. Thank you! (nt)

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:22 PM

3. so are we supposed ta love kavanaugh now lol nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:05 PM

19. Fat chance. Now I want a beer. I like beer.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:52 PM

28. Exactly!

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:47 PM

39. No, but this affirms my personal belief that Roberts is inclined to keep Kavs on a damn short leash,

For probably another year or so, before letting him run around the backyard with Alito heh...

Brett is a mad dog conservative, and just for the sake of image and neighborhood standing the Chief is going to make sure that ones fuckin housebroken before he let's him loose to shit in the neighbors yard and try chew on their cats...

It's a managerial thing, more than it is about ideology.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 24, 2020, 12:40 PM

51. Please explain how the chief justice keeps another justice on a short leash

 

What leverage could he possibly have?

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 09:35 PM

48. No.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:22 PM

4. Just as a question, isn't "treated" waste considered clean?

What more needs to be done for it be non-polluting?

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:27 PM

6. that was my take too

apparently it needs to be "permitted?" But, yeah .. "treated" waste is usually considered pretty clean.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:35 PM

11. Depends on the level of treatment. In this case, no. From the article...

“Maui’s wastewater reclamation facility collects sewage from the surrounding area, partially treats it, and each day pumps around 4 million gallons of treated water into the ground through four wells,” the majority opinion notes. “This effluent the travels about a half mile through groundwater, to the Pacific Ocean.”

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:52 PM

26. In the ocean, it made bad things grow

and good things die.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:32 PM

9. "Partially treated" No it is not clean. All sides accept that it still contains pollutants.

“Maui’s wastewater reclamation facility collects sewage from the surrounding area, partially treats it, and each day pumps around 4 million gallons of treated water into the ground through four wells,” the majority opinion notes. “This effluent the travels about a half mile through groundwater, to the Pacific Ocean.”

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:41 PM

14. I stand corrected. thank you. (nt)

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:24 PM

5. I think the question is what is wrong with the other 3?

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:42 PM

37. Incorrigible fascists.

Anything that even suggests the common good is to be stamped out.

They way their daddies probably stomped on their pet mice when they were nine.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 04:26 PM

42. Alito's counter argument was bizarre.

He did not understand the plain meaning of a functional equivalent... i.e. an alternate approach that, in the end, has the identical result.

Alito goes on. “Just what is the ‘functional equivalent’ of a ‘direct discharge’? The Court provides no real answer.”

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:27 PM

7. So...poisoning the nation not in the nation's best interests

well, color me surprised that robber-ts and beer bong boy figured it out.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:27 PM

8. wooooww. im shocked

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:32 PM

10. Not praise from me but

I do think it a silver lining that the conservative justices aren't carbon copies in lockstep but are a somewhat wide continuum.

We are getting more unusual groupings than one night expect.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:43 PM

16. You could say the same thing about the supposedly liberal justices

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Response to Jose Garcia (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:46 PM

17. not really

other than Kagan, and even then that's usually restricted to her strong beliefs on stare decisis and I think a gamble to try and save Roe.

If Roe falls, I suspect Kagan will give up that gamble.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:02 PM

18. Kagen is definitely the least liberal of the four

She's still great though. Sotomayor is perhaps the most liberal.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:10 PM

20. But other than stare decisis

she's pretty liberal. and again I think she's doing it to try and get conservatives, at least one, on board with that concept for Roe.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:35 PM

12. well, glory be!

This IS the end of the world!

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:41 PM

13. Mark this win down!

Just hope we have MORE to come!

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 01:42 PM

15. Freepers aren't happy with Kavanaugh. They consider him to be a Roberts clone.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 05:15 PM

43. Well, that's a surprise.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 24, 2020, 04:18 PM

52. I lurk over there sometimes and their opinion of Kavanaugh is low.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #52)

Fri Apr 24, 2020, 07:15 PM

53. Wow. Why? Not enough beer pong?

Really, he hasn’t been there long enough to really screw up.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:18 PM

21. Just Wondering...

Really glad about the win, but just wondering... Do either of these two have a vacation home on Maui?

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Response to HotRod Deluxe (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:52 PM

27. That was my first thought.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:24 PM

22. Conversation with my employer about 15 years ago.....

We were in the underground utility construction business and occasionally would be dealing with contaminated water issues. The subject was controlling construction site storm water discharged into public waterways. In our case, the St. Johns river.
I recall, He said, "The solution to pollution is dilution". I asked, "What does it solve?" He said. "What do you mean"?
My take away from that conversation, "conservative" "job creators" have a limited scope of understanding and REALLY don't get nuance at all. Shouldn't be allowed out in public unsupervised, really.

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Response to jaxexpat (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:10 PM

31. Fixed mindset is their hallmark.

Though in some cases he’s right as ppm is inherently a relative standard.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:37 PM

34. I was thinking the same thing. Thats how our drinking water is tested

I mean, a drop of cyanide will kill you. But would it kill you if it was in 1000 gallons of water

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 04:20 PM

41. Interesting aside. I was a farmer in W. Ky during the Reagan years.

In the 80s, American grain (soybeans and corn) shipped to China had an allowable foreign matter factor. I think it was 6% but I really forget. At the US ports, shippers would calculate the actual amount in their shipment and if it was below the allowance they simply added tons of dirt to the shipment. The Chinese byers complained saying they didn't so much mind paying for the additional tonnage but that they would prefer it if the Americans would put it in containers and save them the grain cleaning operation.
At issue was that the standards had been written before the widespread use of modern harvesting machines (combines) and common grain handling techniques employed by practically every farmer/producer. The American farmer's product was cleaner than the standard because of these modern methods. But the use/misuse of that standard by shippers prevented American farmers from realizing a premium price for their produce that should have been due them because of its superior quality. The shippers wanted maximum profit. It's then, to my mind, a more complex issue than the tritely convenient rhyme, "the solution to pollution is dilution" is able to conscribe.
Some say 2 drops of cyanide per 100 gallons of water is actually good for you, right?

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Response to jaxexpat (Reply #41)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 05:17 PM

44. Fascinating bit of history.

Thanks.

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Response to jaxexpat (Reply #41)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 05:48 PM

46. SOMEBODY would probably say it!!

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Response to JudyM (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:39 PM

36. Remember the South Park episode about the water park that went over the Pee limit?

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Response to jaxexpat (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:44 PM

38. Ha, good analogy!

And EWWW.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:38 PM

23. I can see why Kavanaugh voted this way

Clean water is needed to make BEER.

All jokes aside, I'll give them credit where it's due. At least we got this vote from them.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:49 PM

24. Should have been 9-0. Pumping poo into the Pacific is "discharge of a pollutant." Duh.

Sewage treatment plants should not get a special exemption. And just because you channel it through a groundwater aquifer before it reaches the Pacific is no different than sticking a pipe into the Pacific. In fact, it's worse. You're polluting groundwater AND ocean water.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:53 PM

40. (remember, we're dealing with Thomas, Alito & Gorsuck here....)

If it's a reasonable idea, they're bound to oppose it.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 05:19 PM

45. Not sure that's what was said.

They were not pumping raw sewage straight out to the ocean.
It was treated but not enough.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 02:51 PM

25. Gobsmacked -- but very pleased

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:03 PM

29. Kavenaugh knows you need water to grow barley.

And barley to make beer. So good for him for thinking ahead...

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:08 PM

30. They are just throwing the Democrats a bone. When push

comes to shove on really important issues (not downplaying the waste water problem) Roberts and Kavanaugh will side with the Conservatives. Almost guaranteed. Roberts track record is proof.

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Response to dugog55 (Reply #30)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 06:35 PM

47. My thought too; smaller state, small victory, not much national effect.

And next time when a corporate giant wants its way... Well, you take a guess which way Kavanaugh and Roberts will vote.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:19 PM

32. Next Carnival Cruise lines

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:26 PM

33. This court has become weird and unpredictable


The recent decision on unanimous juries was 2 conservatives and 1 liberal against, and 3 liberals and 3 conservatives for. SMDH What's going on?

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Response to Johnyawl (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:39 PM

35. Actually the majority of cases are 7-2 or above.

And have been for years.
Its just the 5-4s that make the news.

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Response to Johnyawl (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 25, 2020, 03:06 PM

54. To me, unpredictable would be the ideal situation

The party-line votes are disappointing, simply because of the fact that there is a party-line in the supreme court.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Fri Apr 24, 2020, 11:25 AM

49. Well, that's twice Kavanaugh has surprised me this week.

Still don't trust or respect him, but honestly I thought he'd be in 100% lockstep with the elder conservative justices.

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Response to Calista241 (Original post)

Fri Apr 24, 2020, 11:45 AM

50. Who would have thought of Kavanaugh coming through?

K&R

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Response to question everything (Reply #50)

Sat Apr 25, 2020, 03:08 PM

55. I didn't know you could think for yourself in the modern supreme court.

On the other hand, there are probably still a lot of esoteric issues that politics hasn't yet infected.

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