Tue Apr 14, 2020, 01:52 PM
MosheFeingold (3,051 posts)
State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses
Source: Washington post
By: Josh Rogin 14 April 2020 Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge. In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet. What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic. The Chinese researchers at WIV were receiving assistance from the Galveston National Laboratory at the University of Texas Medical Branch and other U.S. organizations, but the Chinese requested additional help. The cables argued that the United States should give the Wuhan lab further support, mainly because its research on bat coronaviruses was important but also dangerous. Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/ Note, there is a big difference from "created in a lab" vs. "escaped from a lab". The current thinking of the British government is this "escaped from a lab", for reasons independent of this article. To summarize the British thinking, the bat vector of CV19 is a wood bat not native to the area. The closest habitat is 800 miles away. Wet markets are essentially really gross farmers' markets -- where local people sell local flora and fauna, generally as a part time gig/hobby. It is possible that a wood bat entered into the chain of commerce and ended up there, but that's not the normal course of operation.
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17 replies, 3525 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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MosheFeingold | Apr 2020 | OP |
Roy Rolling | Apr 2020 | #1 | |
MosheFeingold | Apr 2020 | #2 | |
DENVERPOPS | Apr 2020 | #12 | |
Ford_Prefect | Apr 2020 | #3 | |
marble falls | Apr 2020 | #4 | |
MosheFeingold | Apr 2020 | #8 | |
SergeStorms | Apr 2020 | #5 | |
MosheFeingold | Apr 2020 | #10 | |
SergeStorms | Apr 2020 | #16 | |
FailureToCommunicate | Apr 2020 | #6 | |
catsudon | Apr 2020 | #7 | |
MosheFeingold | Apr 2020 | #9 | |
catsudon | Apr 2020 | #14 | |
MosheFeingold | Apr 2020 | #17 | |
neohippie | Apr 2020 | #13 | |
Ford_Prefect | Apr 2020 | #15 | |
Mr.Bill | Apr 2020 | #11 |
Response to MosheFeingold (Original post)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 02:06 PM
Roy Rolling (6,549 posts)
1. Plausible
Cannot be ruled out. Let’s hear more evidence.
That’s the scientific method, unlike the Trump medicine method of “what do you have to lose?”. |
Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #1)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 02:10 PM
MosheFeingold (3,051 posts)
2. Don't disagree
I would say it is no less plausible than the wet market theory, if for no reason other than it is an undisputed fact that the bat and the virus were both at the lab -- while the wet market theory has no evidence of either this particular species of bat, nor the virus.
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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #1)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:45 PM
DENVERPOPS (8,284 posts)
12. Hey RR
I distinctly remember, early on, that I heard the Chinese Gov't had immediately fired the top 200 at that lab once the Chinese Gov't learned of this virus in the Chinese community. Odd that there hasn't been any mention of this since.....I can only imagine that "fired" was literal. Taken to the woods, etc.....
The U.S. government isn't so squeaky clean on biological warfare research, having not only developed, but having a record of covertly using it on our own population to test it's effects. Much of it we will probably never hear about due to "National Security"........ Think USAMARID........(sp?) in Maryland?.......... |
Response to MosheFeingold (Original post)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 03:37 PM
Ford_Prefect (7,429 posts)
3. Mrs. Oleary's Cow Theory seems far less likely than an instutional failure in a dangerous field IMHO
Last edited Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1) I live 6 miles from the Rocky Mountain Lab. Oops is not supposed to ever be able to happen there, either.
At one time I lived downwind of another great facility which we were assured was safe. Dangerous materials were said to be handled with the greatest caution and care by dedicated, serious professionals. The most sophisticated and rigorous methods were applied to assure that nothing bad could escape and harm the public or the planet. And then one day the wrong things, which were never, ever supposed to happen, despite the best intentions and practices of all of those dedicated professionals, did just that. More than half a million people were evacuated from the immediate area. Those of us who were a bit further down wind still do not know how much we were exposed to or what actually was released. My point is that complicated systems do occasionally fail no matter the level of disaster proofing applied or the dedication and professionalism of those responsible to operate them. Given the almost daily revelations regarding appropriate safe distancing and the durability of the virus, along with similar rolling revelations about the apparent range of degree of infection, symptoms and side effects, it seems to me far more likely that the research facility may have underestimated or misunderstood critical aspects of the virus, and so mishandled some aspect of the research they were doing. One person's opinion to be sure. But all the same... |
Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #3)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 03:56 PM
marble falls (52,858 posts)
4. Exactly. Nothing is 100% secure 100% of the time.
Response to Ford_Prefect (Reply #3)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:27 PM
MosheFeingold (3,051 posts)
8. Well
I hope you had your towel. Always need that.
(Obscure literature reference.) |
Response to MosheFeingold (Original post)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:19 PM
SergeStorms (18,321 posts)
5. Uh oh........
the QAnon crazies will use this as proof that China weaponized this virus to defeat the U.S. of A.
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Response to SergeStorms (Reply #5)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:30 PM
MosheFeingold (3,051 posts)
10. You can't help crazy
i think the main takeaway is China had to know the hour this happened.
And lied to cover it up. |
Response to MosheFeingold (Reply #10)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 06:40 PM
SergeStorms (18,321 posts)
16. You're probably correct.
As well as greatly under-reporting the number of deaths in China, they let the genie out of the bottle as well.
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Response to MosheFeingold (Original post)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:23 PM
FailureToCommunicate (13,658 posts)
6. Why are these pandemic threatening "wet markets" still able to operate?
And did the lab where **somthing** might have escaped, clean up it's act?
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Response to MosheFeingold (Original post)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:26 PM
catsudon (799 posts)
7. i already
believe this was made in a lab, and was released by accident.
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Response to catsudon (Reply #7)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:28 PM
MosheFeingold (3,051 posts)
9. Not made
Released. Important distinction.
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Response to MosheFeingold (Reply #9)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:53 PM
catsudon (799 posts)
14. i misspoke
i do mean it was accidentally released from the lab. the virus is probably from the special bat found in the local Wuhan area.
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Response to catsudon (Reply #14)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 06:57 PM
MosheFeingold (3,051 posts)
17. Sorry, I must have confused things with bad writing
The bat is a wood bat, NOT native to Wuhan.
It was, however, used in the lab. Because the wood bat is NOT native to Wuhan, the British believe that it was unlikely to have been at the wet market. |
Response to catsudon (Reply #7)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:52 PM
neohippie (1,131 posts)
13. scientests say that it was not made
I think there is science out there that says this wasn't made due to genetics that can be traced, but that's not to say it was not released by accident or even more foolishly on purpose
Keep in mind that 2 years ago, while these warnings were out there, is the same time that this administration removed 2/3 of CDC staff in China, and around the same time the NSC disbanded the Global Bio-defense team |
Response to neohippie (Reply #13)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 05:20 PM
Ford_Prefect (7,429 posts)
15. That does rather tilt the odds a bit, eh?
"Well we can't be all things to all people, can we? So why try to avoid the inevitable disaster?" seems to be the policy statement.
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Response to MosheFeingold (Original post)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:31 PM
Mr.Bill (22,528 posts)
11. How many Secretaries of State have we had since then?
There's the real problem. There is no continuity in any of our cabinet positions, unless you want to count Ben Carson, who is asleep most of the time.
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