Push to ban assault weapons in Virginia meets resistance
Source: Associated Press
Alan Suderman, Associated Press
Updated 11:30 am CST, Monday, January 13, 2020
Photo: Steve Helber, AP
IMAGE 2 OF 14
Gun law advocate, Pam Douchet, of York county, holds a sign during the meeting of the Senate Judiciary committee at the Capitol in Richmond, Va., Monday, Jan. 13, 2020. The Committee passed several gun related bills
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) Some top Virginia Democratic senators are expressing reservations about plans to ban assault weapons a key part of the new Democratic majority's gun-control proposals and one that's drawn fierce resistance from gun-rights advocates.
A lot of people don't really understand assault weapons and how complicated the issue really is," said Democratic Sen. John Edwards. It's going to be very difficult to figure out a way to do it. But we're studying it, that's all I can say.
He's one of at least four moderate senators the others are Sens. Chap Petersen, Creigh Deeds and Lynwood Lewis who are skeptical of plans to ban assault weapons. None of them has ruled out voting for an assault weapon ban, but all have said they aren't impressed with any of the drafts of proposed bans they've seen.
I've not seen an enforceable bill that makes sense yet, Deeds said.
Read more: https://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Push-to-ban-assault-weapons-in-Virginia-meets-14971396.php#photo-18872825
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)You would have to change the Constitution or overturn Heller first. Besides changing public opinion first.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)................Thanks for the reminder.................it's still a sick law in my opinion.......................
lunasun
(21,646 posts)that lawfully owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" was considered an unconstitutional move
Then the later Supreme Court Chicago ban case and others lawsuits closed any local loopholes to try to stop
We had a AWB that needed to be expanded but instead bush let expire . That would be a start to readdress the AWB at least
Jose Garcia
(2,593 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)Bush said he would sign it if it made it to his desk.
Learn the facts before posting please.
NickB79
(19,233 posts)The buyback program was little used by gun owners.
chowder66
(9,067 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)melm00se
(4,990 posts)and many other semi automatic rifles are almost purely cosmetic.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Your pedantic inane gunsplaining doesn't do anything to solve the problem of TOO MANY FUCKING GUNS!
spin
(17,493 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)I own firearms but I dont run out and buy more when new gun legislation is being discussed. For example i dont own an AR-15 because I have no use for one. I dont hunt and fortunately the property I am currently living on in a rural area does not have a destructive feral hog population.
I really do not understand why people buy firearms they dont need because of proposed legislation.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Nothing happened to guns in his entire 8 years but they were buying them like crazy over the election of Obama.
spin
(17,493 posts)However we would have a new Federal Assault Weapons Ban in place if either McCain or Romney had been elected president.
Enough elected Republicans will support gun legislation when a Republican president pushes it to get it to pass. Few if any will vote for gun legislation pushed by a Democrat in the Oval Office.
Trump will never push for strong gun control. He has (or had) one of the extremely rare carry licenses in New York City. Ill bet he also has a Florida concealed weapons permit.
Ex-cop claims Trump got VIP treatment for gun license
https://nypost.com/2019/01/23/ex-cop-claims-trump-got-vip-treatment-for-gun-license/
fallout87
(819 posts)DOnt matter to you? If we are going to win this fight, we need to be correct about what we say. Interjecting emotion as a response to a person who tried to explain a fact to you hardly helps.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Facts - distractions about FUCKING GUN FASHION don't do anything to make our horrendous, outrageous & horrific gun death toll go down.
Facts - pretending false concern about "emotion" when faced with that horrific gun death toll shows a complete lack of empathy for those victims. Anyone lacking such necessary empathy does not belong in this discussion.
Facts - America has WAAAAAAY too many guns. Any discussion that does not aim to reduce them is counter-productive.
So go away and polish your pistol.
dware
(12,363 posts)So go away and polish your pistol?
Yeah, that's the way to win the gun control debate.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)As they would for any functional adult
dware
(12,363 posts)different way to end their life.
Quit with the emotions and stick to the facts, you might actually get somewhere with this debate.
And before you call me a gun worshiper, I don't own a firearm, but I don't have a problem with firearm ownership, including so called "assault weapons".
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)And if you don't have a problem with assault weapons, you're not addressing the FACTS and succumbing to gun worshipers EMOTIONS.
dware
(12,363 posts)because, you know, emotions vs facts.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Like the gun worshipers, the terrorists at the Russia-backed NRA, and weapons dealers have done a piss-poor job at protecting the general public from their toy hobby. It's an absolute & total failure. Because guns are more important to them than humans.
But you have nothing to say about that.
dware
(12,363 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Run out of script?
dware
(12,363 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Driving it home, as it were.
dware
(12,363 posts)I can keep this up for hours if you wish, but I won't, you're not a worthy adversary.
dware
(12,363 posts)fallout87
(819 posts)The poster above pointed out to you that the difference between an AR-15 and most other rifles are cosmetic features... ones that are hard to legislate. And you respond, once again, void of facts, purely emotion. Where does that get us? You feel all warm n' fuzzy inside?
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Isn't qualified to discuss this issue.
Same as with gun worshiper so emotionally attached to their toys that 30,000+ humans being killed doesn't sway them.
fallout87
(819 posts)and also care about facts at the same time. Seriously, not that hard.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Like, at all.
Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)It's weapons of war we have a problem with. The Army needs them; you don't.
James48
(4,435 posts)They arent automatic. They arent found on most battlefields.
In the USA, far more people are killed with handguns than rifles. Are you actually interested in reducing gun deaths? Then banning handguns is likely to k ok was to fewer gun deaths.
Just trying to understand here.
Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)AR's are fun but in the wrong hands, or modified do way more damage than hunting arms. They are also not necessary in a supposedly "civilized" society." That's all I'm saying. For us not to have comprehensive background checks, allow gun show "loopholes" etc. is ridiculous. AR's are not necessary; cool or fun, yeah. Not necessary. And certainly not what the founders could ever have envisioned in the flintlock days.
fallout87
(819 posts)Not sure where that came along, but there's no constitutional right to hunt... only to keep and bear arms. Agree or disagree, its what the BOR says.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)"The FR-98 12 Ga. Tactical Shotgun. Great firearm for use in Sport shooting or Home Defense."
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/fr-98-ar15-shotgun-fedarm
Maybe you're fine with a pump action AR15 style rifle which can be found here:
"ComGraf's Pump Action Rifle is a conversion of the AR-platform which avoids the provisions of the CT Assault Weapons Ban by changing the rifle to a manually operated (not semi-automatic) system."
https://www.ctlegalars.com/pump-action-rifle
Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)I don't need anymore firepower then that and it's as reliable and simple to operate as one can get. And they can be had for well less then $200.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)They're light, hard to scratch, easy to maintain, and available in many calibers.
spin
(17,493 posts)A quick search on the net will teach you that.
Here Are 7 Animals Hunters Kill Using an AR-15
https://time.com/4390506/gun-control-ar-15-semiautomatic-rifles/
In many states the number of rounds your clip or magazine can contain is limited while you are hunting game. For example in Florida the magazine for your semi-automatic rifle can only hold five rounds.
Taking Game Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
https://myfwc.com/hunting/regulations/taking-game/
Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)The AR-15 platform is very popular for hunting, it's configured in various calibers, it's light weight, easy to handle, low recoil, etc.
I would say you do need some teaching about the AR-15 platform.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)LonePirate
(13,417 posts)Liberalhammer
(576 posts)Racist old white people.
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)Liberalhammer
(576 posts)Is racist and mostly white.
Have a problem with that?
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)
dware
(12,363 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,128 posts)oldsoftie
(12,531 posts)This law wont go anywhere
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)where ICE operates with impunity.
oldsoftie
(12,531 posts)And the threat of holding back funding will go as far as trump's doing it.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Best of luck to those Virginians opposing their liberty being stamped out.
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)Did that "stamp out" your "Liberty"?
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Liberty is fragile and is under threat continuously whether its concerning the 2nd amendment, 1st, or any of our liberties for that matter.
Liberty should be treated as fragile and protected as such.
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)jayfish
(10,039 posts)This is a losing issue that loses the Left votes. Why do we continually push it?
James48
(4,435 posts)Im a Democrat- a Union member, gun owning, pro-life Democrat in Michigan.
Can any of you explain to me what you think the definition of assault weapon is, or should be?
Just asking to try and understand. By the way- an AR-15 is Americas most sold firearm. No, nobody needs an AR-15, but they are enjoyable to shoot, are reasonably inexpensive to use, and I just dont understand what this assault weapon label is intended to do.
Thanks.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)Someone else 'concerned' over the definition of an assault rifle.
Jesus. Who gives a fuck what Webster's dictionary calls an assault rifle? I think offering the capability to massacre dozens of people very quickly with little effort is definition enough. That's one of the many things I can't stand about gun-fucks. They want the capacity to commit mass-murder, but they don't want their firearm to have a scary name, because people would ban it if it did.
James48
(4,435 posts)You can kill a lot of people with a car, but nobody is demanding Fords are banned, now are they?
My question was simply- what do you dislike about certain firearms, and what makes it an assault weapon that you want to ban ownership of, vs a hunting rifle that most folks agree is fine to own?
Im fine with background checks, with training, with licensing if necessary, but I dont get what the ban assault weapons crowd is really after here. An AR-15 is much less powerful than most hunting rifles.
Help me understand.
Archae
(46,318 posts)All the gun manufacturers have to do is make a couple cosmetic changes and presto!
Instant non-assault rifle!
This was done during the Clinton assault rifle ban.
Besides, how would a law against "assault rifles" be enforced?
The ATF goes house-to-house ransacking the place looking for the "wrong gun?"
We need to increase the penalties for using assault rifles in crimes.
I say if an assault rifle is used in ANY crime, 20 years, no parole. Period.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)That's the whole point. You're concern-trolling.
What I dislike about military-style weaponry is its ability to give slack-muscled, soft-bellied losers the power to murder large numbers of people without breaking a sweat. And if you think the military styling isn't what attracts these hamhocks to these weapons, then ask yourself why they always dress up in military-style uniforms to carry out their murders.
If I had an inherent dislike of firearms, I wouldn't have joined the military at age 17, or qualified expert on the M-16 and the Beretta 9mm, or shot a superior score on Table VIII of the tank qualification course of the M1 Abrams.
Another hallmark of the gun-crazies is their delusion that gun-control advocates 'hate' firearms. They're trying to make our reasoned, logical approach to gun safety sound as delusional as their irrational, even creepy love of weapons of mass-murder.
I don't know why I bothered to type all that; it's not going to make a difference. It never does with you people...
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)EX500rider
(10,839 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 02:58 PM - Edit history (1)
If you really don't think many of them do you haven't been paying enough attention.
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)...if what happened in Nice France ever happens here I wonder what people will want to ban?
On the evening of 14 July 2016, a 19-tonne cargo truck was deliberately driven into crowds of people celebrating Bastille Day on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, France, resulting in the deaths of 86 people and the injury of 458 others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)CUMULATIVELY, firearms kill more Americans than 19-tonne cargo trucks. 30K per year, 20K of them suicides, as you well know.
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)EX500rider
(10,839 posts)...and without the firearms the deranged just might switch to a more lethal method like arson or trucks, both which have the potential for bigger body counts and are even less able to be restricted then firearms. Concentrating on the WHY instead of the HOW I think would be a smarter outcome for stopping mass murder.
And of that 30k a year what number were killed with assault rifles exactly? 300 or so? And if that seems like a big number in a country of 300 million+ remember over 35,000 Americans die in unintentional falls every year and about 64,000 from unintentional poisoning. When I hear people here say they are afraid to go to a Walmart what they really should be afraid of is their car or their stairs/ladder or what's under their sink or in their medicine cabinet statiscally-wise.
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)I've been on DU too long. I say MSSA. The VA legislature should adopt that terminology too.
Basically, you're espousing the "Wound Collector" theory of Rampage Killings, which I've heard repeatedly from one particular Conservative Gunner on another forum, but I am willing to take that risk: Incels and other suicidal malcontents will NOT simply switch to another method, be it bombs, heavy trucks, or swimming pools. We already know that knife attacks are less lethal en masse.
I think this VA ban idea is a fool's errand: a binary solution won't work except to generate hysteria (OMG CONFISCATION!). I believe REGULATING access to firearms will limit impulsive mass homicides, whether MSSAs or SA Handguns or Muskets. I'm in favor of lengthy waiting periods: 6 months or a year for 1st time buyers.
My psychiatrist always said the opposite of you: concentrate on the HOW, not the WHY. HOW Adam Lanza got access to guns (his idiot Mother) is less important that WHY he wanted to murder children (infamy). Without those guns, yes, maybe he stabs some to death, but 26?
fallout87
(819 posts)Last I heard, there was a human on the other end. How do you legislate behavior? The suicides.... do you really think gun control will prevent 20k suicides?
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)No solutions are 100% effective and perfect - there's that good old America binary thinking again.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)"Any semi-automatic weapon that fires a rimless, semi-rimmed, or rebated rim centerfire cartridge that has a bullet of less then 6.5mm in diameter or a metal based case length of less then 50.8mm or caseless ammunition of any dimension or any rimless, semi-rimmedd or rebated Polymer-cased centerfire cartridge of any dimension.
The appearance of the gun has nothing to do with the above definition. The gun could look like a hunting rifle or it could look like something out of a Hollywood war movie. The gun could have a bayonet lug, grenade launcher, flash suppressor, pistol grip or folding stock and it might not be an assault weapon as defined by above. Or it could. It all depends on the action of the gun and the cartridge it fires.
Such a definition keeps things simple. All one has to do is first determine if the gun is a semi-automatic, see if the cartridge it is loaded with is a centerfire round and then measure the cartridge. No fuss. No muss.
If one has an issue with including semi-automatic handguns in the above, then one could refine it further by saying an assault weapon is a semi-automatic firearm that has a barrel length of 16" or longer and fires a rimless, semi-rimmed, or rebated rim centerfire cartridge that has a bullet of less then 6.5mm in diameter or a case length of less then 50.8mm.
A semi-automatic, or self-loading, firearm is a weapon that performs all steps necessary to prepare the weapon to fire again after firingassuming cartridges remain in the weapon's feed device or magazine.
A centerfire cartridge is a cartridge with a primer located in the center of the cartridge case head.
"The rimmed cartridge is the oldest of the types and has a rim that is significantly larger in diameter than the base of the cartridge. "
"On a rimless case, the rim is the same diameter as the base of the case; it is known as an extractor groove."
"On a semi-rimmed case the rim projects slightly beyond the base of the case, though not as much as a rimmed cartridge."
"Rebated rim cartridges have a rim that is significantly smaller in diameter than the base of the case, serving only for extraction."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_%28firearms%29
Rimmed cartridges do not have an extractor groove.
According to the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI), a cartridge is "a single round of ammunition consisting of the case, primer and propellant with or without one or more projectiles." Only the projectile portion is the bullet.
The case length of a 7.62x39mm cartridge is about 38.7mm
Polymer-cased ammunition (or PCA) is the concept applied to define the alternative to use polymer-based casings instead of metal-based (brass, aluminium or steel mainly) in the manufacturing of ammunition.
Caseless ammunition is a type of small arms ammunition that eliminates the cartridge case that typically holds the primer, propellant, and projectile together as a unit."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/117297510
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)It takes a thief to catch a thief, or a firearm minutiae expert to write firearm legislation, in this case...
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The so-called assault weapons, for the most part, are semi-automatic guns that fire a cartridge that falls between certain specs.
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)which I do not wish to acquire.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)Nobody could come up with a way. Unlike the old AWB which manufacturers easily got around by simply changing the name and/or making some inconsequential cosmetic changes.
fallout87
(819 posts)AS much as many dont like to hear it, there are millions out there, they aren't going anywhere... and belting about confiscation does more to hurt our cause than help it.
but... emotions!
Aristus
(66,316 posts)You don't need military weaponry.
dware
(12,363 posts)I never carried an AR-15 during my career in the Marines, no one I know of carried one of those in the military, they're semi auto as opposed to the M-16/M-4, which are select fire battle rifles.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)One can change the style all one wants. It's a military weapon.
If you still don't think so, how about I send you into battle with your choice of weapon: a BB gun, or an AR-15 rifle? Go ahead: choose.
dware
(12,363 posts)I just pointed out what is true, the AR-15 is not a military weapon.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)ripcord
(5,346 posts)The Colt AR-15 and the Ruger Mini 14 function in the same manner, they are both semi automatic, they are both magazine fed, they fire at the same rate the only differences are the appearance, and the fact that the Mini 14 has never appeared on an AWB. The AWB should just be called the scary looking weapon ban, there is no military force in the world that would consider the AR-15 as an acceptable weapon, not even the USAF.
EX500rider
(10,839 posts)I'd pick a single shot .22 over a BB gun also, that still does not make it military spec firearm.
Archae
(46,318 posts)How would this law be enforced?
The Feds go house to house ransacking houses and businesses looking for the "wrong guns?"
Buy backs will help, but not solve the problem.
We have to be REALISTIC, and bust felons and nutcases with assault rifles.
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)No one's going to confiscate; that BS is already making the rounds in the Hair-on-Fire Community.
liskddksil
(2,753 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Therefore I will write to my VA senator and rep, and demand the assault weapons ban.
Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)Personally, I am comfortable with more traditional items and don't feel the need to escalate an arms race. Are your neighbors that dangerous?
Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #33)
lagomorph777 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The odds of you being shot by someone armed with a so-called assault weapon or someone breaking into your home armed with such are pretty darn slim. Pretty much zilch.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Also, the psychological impact of the AR terror weapons and the terror attacks they are designed and used for should not be underestimated. Very powerful political intimidation, disproportionate to the actual death toll.
zanana1
(6,110 posts)Calista241
(5,586 posts)The Supreme Court decided in Heller and affirmed in McDonald that a 'common usage' criteria would be used to judge any future gun control regulation. McDonald further incorporated the right to bear arms under the 14th amendment, meaning this applies to the states as well.
If any plaintiff can establish that whatever particular firearm is in 'common usage', then any ban or mandatory buyback will be invalidated. With millions of AR, AK, and other platforms out there, bans of semi-automatic rifles are going to face immediate legal trouble. This limiting criteria is not all bad for people in favor of gun control. The 'common usage' language is also a valid way for the government to prevent ownership of artillery, mortars, chemical weapons, nuclear weapons and so forth.
I realize many here are probably going to insult me ad nauseam for not seeing the issue your way, but the Supreme Court has set up real barriers to the kind of remedies proposed.
Those barriers cannot be overcome by passing a few laws which will be immediately be struck down. In addition, Heller has a daunting comment on registration and licensing for those who think registration will bring relief:
"Respondent conceded at oral argument that he does not 'have a problem with ... licensing' and that the District's law is permissible so long as it is 'not enforced in an arbitrary and capricious manner.' Tr. of Oral Arg. 7475. We therefore assume that petitioners' issuance of a license will satisfy respondents prayer for relief and do not address the licensing requirement."
underpants
(182,769 posts)Numbers vary - I've heard/read anywhere from 50 to 100 - but a sizable number of the 133 localities in the Commonwealth have adopted these Sovereign resolutions. Virginia coiunties and cities are separate - 95 counties and 38 cities.
A friend happened to be at a county board meeting and these jackholes were there. The board gave the. 30 minutes and read paperwork and their phones the whole time.
They are playing this up for fundraising and make squeeze out the NRA just a little bit.
apnu
(8,755 posts)Hunting rifles, shot guns, hand guns... OK I can see arguments, but not assault weapons.
You don't need an AR-15 to protect yourself when any other handgun will do. There's a reason why every cop in America goes around on patrol with a hand gun and not an assault rifle. Those things come out only in certain SWAT situations.
No assault weapon is necessary for hunting or self defense in wilderness from any predator, where, again, hand guns, shot guns, and hunting rifles will do the job in every case.
An AR-15 will not help you if the government "comes to get you" Anything the government brings to your door, your AR-15 or AK-47 will be grossly under powered.
Assault weapons are useful in war and that's it.
Tom Yossarian Joad
(19,227 posts)The governor said law enforcement had intercepted extremist rhetoric similar to the lead-up to Charlottesville days before pro-gun activists are holding a rally.
In response to what he described as credible intelligence of threats of violence at an upcoming gun rights rally in Richmond, Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam has declared a state of emergency and will temporarily ban individuals from carrying firearms on Capitol grounds.
The governor said at a press conference Wednesday that authorities believe armed militia groups plan to storm the Capitol during the January 20 rally.
He also said that law enforcement had intercepted threats and extremist rhetoric similar to what was observed prior to the violent Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in August 2017. We will not allow that mayhem and violence to happen here, he said.
/snip
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,848 posts)"My right to kill you shall not be infringed"
What I wish would happen to these people would get me kicked off this board, so I won't say it, but I'll just hint that I wish they'd learn the reality of unlimited guns.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Its very easy to pick up what youre putting down. Just curious whos going to be the one you expect to fulfill your unspeakable wishes?
dware
(12,363 posts)and ransacking residences looking for "assault weapons", or shooting those that refuse to kneel down to the PTB when it comes to firearms.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)Gun worshipers would JUST LOVE to start shooting people in uniform.
dware
(12,363 posts)because you know, emotions vs facts.
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)dware
(12,363 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,848 posts)could take care of it.