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Tue Jan 7, 2020, 10:54 PM

Ukrainian Airlines plane crashes in Tehran shortly after takeoff

Source: CNN

By Artemis Moshtaghian and Joshua Berlinger, CNN

Updated 0340 GMT (1140 HKT) January 8, 2020

(CNN)A Boeing 737 plane carrying 180 passengers and crew crashed shortly after takeoff from Imam Khomeini Airport in Tehran early Wednesday local time, Iran's semi-official news agency ISNA reported.

The Ukranian Airlines plane crashed due to technical difficulties, according to ISNA.

This is a developing story and will be updated

Read more: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/07/middleeast/plane-crash-iran-intl-hnk/index.html



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Reply Ukrainian Airlines plane crashes in Tehran shortly after takeoff (Original post)
Dennis Donovan Jan 7 OP
LineReply .
applegrove Jan 7 #1
DesertRat Jan 7 #2
SergeStorms Jan 7 #3
inwiththenew Jan 7 #4
MarcA Jan 7 #5
Dennis Donovan Jan 7 #6
sarisataka Jan 8 #16
getagrip_already Jan 8 #29
Dennis Donovan Jan 7 #7
dalton99a Jan 8 #15
Recursion Jan 7 #8
Dennis Donovan Jan 7 #9
Recursion Jan 8 #12
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 8 #21
dalton99a Jan 8 #10
Post removed Jan 8 #11
AtheistCrusader Jan 8 #13
rufus dog Jan 8 #14
herding cats Jan 8 #17
muriel_volestrangler Jan 8 #18
Dennis Donovan Jan 8 #24
MosheFeingold Jan 8 #33
KY_EnviroGuy Jan 8 #19
Dennis Donovan Jan 8 #23
KY_EnviroGuy Jan 8 #25
Dennis Donovan Jan 8 #26
Calista241 Jan 8 #31
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 8 #35
Baclava Jan 8 #20
brooklynite Jan 8 #22
MineralMan Jan 8 #27
cvoogt Jan 8 #28
Eugene Jan 8 #30
Baclava Jan 8 #32
MosheFeingold Jan 8 #34
clementine613 Jan 9 #36
Dennis Donovan Jan 9 #37
clementine613 Jan 9 #38
Dennis Donovan Jan 9 #39
NutmegYankee Jan 9 #40
Dennis Donovan Jan 9 #41
NutmegYankee Jan 9 #42

Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 10:57 PM

1. .

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 10:59 PM

2. Omg, horrible

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:07 PM

3. What a coincidence.

I'm not real big on believing in coincidences.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:17 PM

4. Looks like the dumbf@cks operating the AA system shot down the wrong plane

From what I can gather on twitter. Granted it's early and more could come out but if true what a bunch of morons.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:19 PM

5. Maybe see who was on the plane? maybe. n/t

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:21 PM

6. Potentially shot down by Iran? Only one source




Original tweet (the source has a blue check, FWIW)



الحدث ✔ @AlHadath

#إيران — أنباء عن سقوط الطائرة الأوكرانية نتيجة إصابتها بصاروخ إيراني عن طريق الخطأ
Translated from Arabic by Google

#إيران News of the Ukrainian plane crashing as a result of accidentally injuring an Iranian missile

10:58 PM · Jan 7, 2020

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:30 AM

16. That is a very curious translation

the plane accidentally injured the missile?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 10:40 AM

29. who would intentionally injure a missile in flight?

That would be a silly thing to do.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:24 PM

7. "Most of the passengers aboard the Ukrainian flight... have died"

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:22 AM

15. Yep:

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:38 PM

8. The 737 strikes again

Boeing just yesterday disclosed a new trim problem

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Response to Recursion (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:46 PM

9. I don't think this was a MAX.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:10 AM

12. I don't remember if the advisory was limited to the MAX

And of course news searching for 737 is now completely useless.

Though come to think of it it wasn't trim, it was that the wires in the tail are too close together and might short.

EDIT here it is. MAX only, as it turns out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/06/boeing-faa-reviewing-wiring-issue-that-could-cause-short-circuit-on-737-max.html

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Response to Recursion (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 07:50 AM

21. The 737-800 is a safe plane

I've flown on this type several times. The 800 entered service early in 1997. US carrier Southwest has over 200 of this model in their current fleet. The 737-800 model has 10 crashes with fatalities including this one today.

My understanding is that the wiring in the tail did not cause or contribute to either crash of the MAX.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:05 AM

10. The aircraft that crashed was this 737-800:



The aircraft involved in this incident was registered as UR-PSR. Data from Planespotters indicates that the aircraft is just over 3 years old. Furthermore, the data indicates that this is a leased aircraft that has only flown for Ukraine International Airlines. UR-PSR is also a frequent aircraft operating this route. The plane previously flew between Tehran and Kyiv on UIA on January 3rd, 4th, and 6th before operating this flight on January 8th, 2020.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:12 AM

13. Sir, this is a Wendy's.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:21 AM

14. which puppet was it?

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 12:48 AM

17. A one post wonder.

They're gone now.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 03:55 AM

18. Preliminary information is engine failure

Ukraine's embassy in Tehran said engine failure caused the crash and there was no link to terrorism.

"According to preliminary information, the plane crashed as a result of an engine failure for technical reasons. Currently, the version of a terrorist attack is ruled out," the embassy said on the Ukraine Foreign Ministry's website.

Among the victims were 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainians including all the crew, 10 Swedes, four Afghans, three Britons and three Germans, Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said.

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky said he was cutting short a trip to Oman and flying back to Kyiv. He warned against "speculation or unchecked theories regarding the catastrophe" until official reports were ready.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51029994

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 08:04 AM

24. The Beeb is walking that back (same article, updated)

A Ukrainian Boeing-737 carrying 176 people has crashed in Iran and officials say there is no chance of finding survivors.

Ukraine International Airlines flight PS752 to Kyiv went down after taking off from Imam Khomeini airport in Tehran at 06:12 local time (02:42 GMT).

The majority of passengers were from Iran and Canada.

Ukraine's Tehran embassy initially blamed engine failure but later removed the statement.

It said any comment regarding the cause of the accident prior to a commission's inquiry was not official.

Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelensky, warned against "speculation or unchecked theories regarding the catastrophe" until official reports were ready.


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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 03:54 PM

33. That's nonsense

A plane with engine failure (assuming it goes down, which most won't under most conditions) would crash in a controlled fashion and leave debris in the line of flight.

What they won't do is blow up in the sky suddenly and leave a circular debris field.

That's a bomb or a missile.

I've been in combat and people shot at shadows when under fire. You know the SAM operators in Iran were at a state of high freak out, as they are targets themselves. One just fired.

If you recall, the USA did this to an Iranian aircraft a decade or so ago that overflew a carrier group against orders.

Innocent people getting blown up is just part of combat.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 05:48 AM

19. Some of the flight data.....

From the FlightRadar24 Twitter page:



along with this graphic:



Looks like she came down very fast from ~8,000 feet.

KY............

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 07:59 AM

23. The ADS-B data stopped @ 8000'?

Maybe there was a catastrophic loss of power with whatever happened @ 8000'? Or, did the aircraft disintegrate @ 8000'?

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 09:00 AM

25. The investigation will have to play out Dennis, but a local video showed...

the aircraft on fire as it plunged from a high altitude, and the descent was very rapid. Something must have destroyed the flight data transponders at high altitude.

Seems that would be caused either by catastrophic fuel system explosion (like the one out off Long Island), or a bomb exploding on-board (like the one out of Egypt) or a missile hit. I suppose a severe catastrophic engine failure could also light up an aircraft if flying debris hit the fuel tanks.

Considering the very raw political environment and the governments involved, I'm not sure this event will receive a proper investigation. They might not even allow Boeing in the country. Hell, they may even ask Russia to help conduct the investigation.

Brings back memories of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 shot down over Ukraine in 2014. Not saying this one was shot down, but the extreme rapid loss of altitude and total destruction of the aircraft is similar.

Iran may have radar data they have not released as well....and may choose not to. Will be interesting to see who they ask to analyze the black boxes. I'm almost sure they don't have the capability and if I recall correctly, there's only a few labs in the world that can do it.

I'm not really familiar with flight tracking systems but just like to tinker with it on-line within the limitations of what they allow for free.

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 09:11 AM

26. Yep, unlikely the NTSB will be invited.

A shame, since I trust them over just about any other govt agency I can think of.

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 11:20 AM

31. That plane was shot down, 100%.

Almost no system failures could cause a result like that.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 04:24 PM

35. Unsubstantiated so far

From CNN:
US intelligence is “taking a look at the crash” of the Ukrainian jet last night, a US official tells CNN, as suspicions rise about what could have caused a Boeing jet to crash near the Tehran airport shortly after takeoff.

If there was a missile fired, there would be a heat signature that would be captured by US military and intelligence systems. So far, a review of the imagery has not found any telltale sign, according to another US official, but the scrutiny continues.

Intelligence analysts will also review images of the wreckage for indications of explosions from inside or outside the aircraft, as well as other intelligence.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 06:39 AM

20. 63 Canadians killed in Iran crash

SHAHEDSHAHR, IRAN -- Dozens of Canadians were among the 176 people killed in a plane crash just minutes after taking off from the Iranian capital's main airport, Ukraine's minister of foreign affairs said.

Vadym Prystaiko said 63 Canadians, 82 Iranians and 11 Ukrainians were on board-- the Ukrainian nationals included two passengers and the nine crew. There were also 10 Swedish, four Afghan, three German and three British nationals.

It remains unclear what happened. Qassem Biniaz, a spokesman for Iran's Road and Transportation Ministry, said it appeared a fire struck one of its engines.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/63-canadians-killed-in-plane-crash-near-tehran-ukrainian-official-1.4757783

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 07:53 AM

22. Video of plane coming down...

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 09:44 AM

27. Too much of a coincidence, I think.

I doubt we'll ever get the real story, though.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 10:15 AM

28. I agree

It's just too strange a coincidence. In thinking "cui bono?" I couldn't come up with anything; it depends on a) who was on board and b) possibly a case of mistaken identity. Airliners have been downed before by both the Russian and US militaries.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 10:43 AM

30. Iran says it will not give black box from crashed airliner to Boeing

Source: The Guardian

Iran says it will not give black box from crashed airliner to Boeing

Comments come as Ukrainian president says priority is to find ‘those responsible for this terrible catastrophe’

Peter Beaumont in London, Michael Safi in Beirut and Rebecca Ratcliffe
Wed 8 Jan 2020 15.18 GMT
Last modified on Wed 8 Jan 2020 15.24 GMT

Iran’s aviation authority will not hand over flight recorders from the Ukraine International Airlines Boeing 737-800 jet that crashed moments after take-off from Tehran killing all 176 passengers and crew, either to the aircraft’s manufacturer or US aviation authorities.

The announcement by Iran’s Civil Aviation Organisation head, Ali Abedzadeh, follows the launch of an urgent inquiry into the crash by the Ukrainian government, which itself rowed back on an earlier statement ruling out an act of terror.

Announcing on his Facebook page that Ukraine would send a team of experts to Iran later on Wednesday, the country’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said: “Our priority is to establish the truth and those responsible for this terrible catastrophe.”

The developments have fuelled uncertainty around the circumstances of the crash, which came only hours after Iran had fired a volley of intermediate range ballistic missiles at bases used by US forces in neighbouring Iraq in relation for America’s assassination of the powerful Iranian general Qassem Suleimani in Baghdad on Friday.

Commenting after the discovery of the black box flight recorders at the crash site, Abedzadeh said: “We will not give the black boxes to the manufacturer (Boeing) and the Americans. It’s not yet clear which country the black box will go to for the investigation,” he added.

-snip-


Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/08/iran-says-it-will-not-give-black-box-from-crashed-airliner-to-boeing

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Response to Eugene (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 02:07 PM

32. France has a very good crash investigation team, maybe they can get the needed information

But leaving out the manufacturer of the plane is not something normally done.

If they know they shot it down and are just stalling thats a whole nother kettle of fish

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Response to Eugene (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 8, 2020, 03:55 PM

34. That's because

It should the plane flying along normally and then getting blown up.

The fog of war.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)

Thu Jan 9, 2020, 10:17 PM

36. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump had it shot down...

... to frame the Iranians as a pretext for further war.

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Response to clementine613 (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 9, 2020, 10:30 PM

37. No

No chance.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 9, 2020, 10:32 PM

38. I wouldn't put _anything_ past His Orangeness.

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Response to clementine613 (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 9, 2020, 10:39 PM

39. It sounds like the Iranians might be copping to it

They're inviting Boeing and the NTSB to investigate.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 9, 2020, 11:04 PM

40. International Civil Aviation rules.

Any crash investigation should have representatives of the plane manufacturer, engine manufacturer, and the transportation safety organization of the country of manufacture. So Boeing and NTSB from USA and CFM International for engines. Since CFMi is a dual country company, the French BEA might get involved officially.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 9, 2020, 11:09 PM

41. Yesterday, Iran wasn't going to allow it. Interesting that they changed their minds

I'm hoping it's a goodwill thing. We'll see, I guess.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 9, 2020, 11:13 PM

42. Probably professional civil servants convincing the politicians to do it right.

Lets hope no antics come out of this. While representatives are invited, you know any US rep will be concerned for their safety.

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