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Omaha Steve

(98,872 posts)
Thu Nov 21, 2019, 12:59 AM Nov 2019

Bacon, Fortenberry push bill to protect Open Skies treaty and Offutt planes

Source: Omaha World Herald

By Steve Liewer

The House of Representatives is pushing back this week against the Trump administration’s under-the-radar efforts to pull the United States out of the Open Skies Treaty.

The withdrawal would permanently ground two Offutt-based jets associated with the pact.

Republican Reps. Don Bacon and Jeff Fortenberry, whose districts include the greater Omaha area and Offutt Air Force Base, are co-sponsoring a bill proposed by a California Democrat that would require the White House to give Congress 180 days’ notice before suspending, terminating or withdrawing from the treaty.

And on Tuesday, a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee held public hearings on the treaty. That hearing included defenses of the treaty from both sides of the aisle, but also concern over the condition of the two OC-135Bs that are flown over Russia and other countries by 55th Wing crews based at Offutt. The two planes are nearly 60 years old and have some of the worst maintenance records in the Air Force.


A Russian air force Tu-214 flies towards Offutt Air Force Base as part of the Open Skies Treaty on April 26. Members of the House of Representatives this week held public hearings and introduced legislation to counter a possible move by the Trump administration to pull out of the treaty.

CHRIS MACHIAN/THE WORLD-HERALD

Read more: https://www.omaha.com/news/military/bacon-fortenberry-push-bill-to-protect-open-skies-treaty-and/article_bc37f830-64c9-5197-9636-3fac013c47f6.html

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Bacon, Fortenberry push bill to protect Open Skies treaty and Offutt planes (Original Post) Omaha Steve Nov 2019 OP
Wow. I'm sure a lot of folks don't get the importance of this, but it is bad. Really bad. NT okaawhatever Nov 2019 #1
If Trump pulls out of this treaty, does that mean the loss of air surveillance over Russia? Lonestarblue Nov 2019 #2
Correct. We would not be able to fly over Russia. Satellites can provide some intel, but can't okaawhatever Nov 2019 #4
Thank you! Lonestarblue Nov 2019 #5
Trying to understand why. OneCrazyDiamond Nov 2019 #3
Well, considering the LOSS of vital intel, Haggis for Breakfast Nov 2019 #6

Lonestarblue

(9,808 posts)
2. If Trump pulls out of this treaty, does that mean the loss of air surveillance over Russia?
Thu Nov 21, 2019, 09:24 AM
Nov 2019

And other countries as well, such as Ukraine, so the US could not monitor Russian troop movements into former USSR countries? Wouldn’t satellite monitoring replace that? I’m confused!

okaawhatever

(9,453 posts)
4. Correct. We would not be able to fly over Russia. Satellites can provide some intel, but can't
Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:48 PM
Nov 2019

replace what planes can do with electro-optical cameras, radar and topography.

Putin invaded Crimea right after the Olympics because he had moved military troops to the area for Olympic security and that gave him an opportunity to strike quickly and without notice. Had he tried it any other time we would have noticed the troop movement required to pull it off. Obama suspected he would try it and warned him not to and sent two navy ships to the area. Unfortunately the captain of one of the ships ran it aground disabling any capabilities of defense for the Ukrainians.

From the Arms Control Journal:

The United States and several allies on Dec. 6 conducted an “extraordinary flight” over eastern Ukraine under the Open Skies Treaty, the first and only treaty flight worldwide during 2018.

The flight followed a Russian attack in late November on Ukrainian naval vessels in the Black Sea and as Ukraine said Russia has been increasing its forces near its border with Ukraine.

The U.S. Defense Department said U.S., Canadian, French, German, Romanian, UK, and Ukrainian observers were aboard the OC-135B aircraft during the observation flight, which was requested by Ukraine.


For more info on the OC-135B
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104496/oc-135b-open-skies/ x

OneCrazyDiamond

(2,027 posts)
3. Trying to understand why.
Thu Nov 21, 2019, 02:43 PM
Nov 2019

I was told satellites is where we really get this stuff. I think of all the CO2 that could be saved from all those flights. What is the cost?

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