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Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:07 PM

Potential culprit found in vaping-related lung injuries and deaths

Source: Washington Post



Federal health officials have identified vitamin E acetate in the lung fluids of 29 people sickened in the outbreak of dangerous vaping-related lung injuries. The discovery is a “breakthrough” that points to the oil as a likely culprit in the outbreak that has sickened more than 2,000 people and killed at least 39, a top official said Friday. “These findings provide direct evidence of vitamin E acetate at the primary site of injury within the lungs,” said Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The latest findings point to growing evidence of vitamin E acetate as “a very strong culprit of concern,” she said.

Although the findings announced Friday do not rule out other possible compounds or ingredients that may be causing the lung injuries, Schuchat described the lab results as a “breakthrough” in the investigation. CDC tested for a wide range of substances that might be found, including plant oils and petroleum distillates, such as mineral oil. But, she said, “No other potential toxins were detected.”

CDC officials found vitamin E acetate, an oil derived from the vitamin, in all 29 samples of lung fluid collected from patients who had fallen ill or died from lung injuries. THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, was also found in 23 patients, including three who said they had not used THC products. Nicotine was detected in 16 of 26 patients. Vitamin E acetate, an oil derived from the vitamin, has already been identified in previous testing by federal and state laboratories in vape products that contain THC.

Virtually all the products were obtained on the illicit market. Vitamin E acetate has been used in recent months as a cutting agent or additive on the cannabis black market to stretch the amount of THC in vape cartridges, officials and industry experts have said. The findings are significant because for the first time, scientists have been able to connect results from product testing with clinical specimens from patients, she said.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/11/08/potential-culprit-found-vaping-related-lung-injuries-deaths/



Meanwhile the whole legit vaping vendor community has been tarred and feathered unmercifully.

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Potential culprit found in vaping-related lung injuries and deaths (Original post)
BumRushDaShow Nov 8 OP
TexasBushwhacker Nov 8 #1
SoCalNative Nov 8 #2
Newest Reality Nov 8 #3
jberryhill Nov 8 #9
Newest Reality Nov 8 #10
jberryhill Nov 8 #12
Newest Reality Nov 8 #13
BumRushDaShow Nov 8 #4
Submariner Nov 8 #5
PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 8 #6
Chin music Nov 8 #8
LiberalLovinLug Nov 8 #7
BumRushDaShow Nov 8 #11
LiberalLovinLug Nov 8 #15
BumRushDaShow Nov 8 #16
yaesu Nov 8 #14
TeamPooka Nov 8 #17
BumRushDaShow Nov 8 #18
rwsanders Nov 8 #19
The Liberal Lion Nov 8 #21
rwsanders Nov 8 #23
The Liberal Lion Nov 8 #25
Withywindle Thursday #31
Bernardo de La Paz Nov 9 #28
USAF Brat Nov 8 #24
rwsanders Wednesday #29
Withywindle Thursday #30
Withywindle Thursday #32
JonLP24 Thursday #33
The Liberal Lion Nov 8 #20
Brainfodder Nov 8 #22
Voltaire2 Nov 8 #26
nitpicker Nov 9 #27

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:29 PM

1. Apparently it has nothing to do with flavorings

So when are the bans going to be lifted on those?

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:39 PM

2. And when will San Francisco

lift its ridiculous ban on all e-cigarette sales?

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:41 PM

3. Aren't

the bans on flavors about the attraction to underage vapers?

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:13 PM

9. Yes. But vape juice has no flavor


There is no “natural” flavor for it. What flavor should it be?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:17 PM

10. That's a good question.

Well, I have vaped in the past and there were various "tobacco" flavors, so that is all I can think of as a replacement. Either that, or bland and flavorless, huh?

It seems like the tobacco industry gets a boost here somehow? From my research, without harmful adulterants, vaping is far safer than smoking.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:19 PM

12. The problem with "tobacco" flavor


Is that one of the ways vaping helps people quit smoking is that it breaks the tie between nicotine and the flavor of tobacco.

I don’t smoke now, but when I vaped, I found that cigarettes tasted awful again.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:23 PM

13. True...

That's a good point.

The "tobacco" flavors I tried were not the same as the nasty taste you get from a cigarette, especially after you have gone to vaping for a while. They were more like how pipe tobacco smells, etc. I guess you could say variants on the theme.

From what I gather, the emphasis is on sweet, delicious candy/cake, fruity, etc. So, we will have to see how that pans out.

It would nice to get past the overreaction to this. Maybe some regulation of the juice would be good to avoid cheap substitutes and garbage added. The stuff I used was made in store with simple, fresh and clean ingredients.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:41 PM

4. They keep saying "but the children" when it comes to that.



I don't know what is going to happen once marijuana usage spreads further with the state bans being lifted.

There is this odd cognitive dissonance about MJ use vs vaping vs analog cig use that is mind boggling (and I am a vaper).

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:56 PM

5. I used the Blu e-cigs a few years ago to quit smoking

used in combination with the Nicoderm patch, it took the edge off nicotine addiction enough that I could quit for good. The brand I used did not have all that smoke shown in the picture. Just little puffs of light smoke.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:00 PM

6. But, but,

if people weren't vaping in the first place. If they weren't smoking cancer sticks to start with.

While I don't wish any ill on people, it's hardly breaking news that smoking is Very Bad For You, and it shouldn't come as a surprise that vaping might also be.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #6)


Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:01 PM

7. "Meanwhile the whole legit vaping vendor community has been tarred and feathered unmercifully. "

It almost makes me suspicious of the origin. But even if this is just a unintended mistake due to black market incompetence and ignorance, it is being used to tarnish the whole industry.

Vaping raw leaves is waaaaaaaaay more healthy than smoking leaves. I blame over commercialization. Making the product into a smaller, easier to package and promote, concentrated in oil, that you can just pop in like the new coffee pod industry offers consumers. Why have to scoop actual coffee grounds into your coffee maker? So messy!

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:19 PM

11. "Why have to scoop actual coffee grounds into your coffee maker? So messy!"

I grow my own coffee (plant).*

(*of course it's got another 5 or so more years before it blooms and fruits but that's okay )

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:17 PM

15. Sounds great

Roast them yourself too. I had a friend that showed me how to roast green beans yourself.
Buy a hot air powered popcorn utility, you can find them used at garage sales, or craig's list cheap. Roasts them perfect, you can roast as dark as you like.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:26 PM

16. Yup.

I had a blooming/fruiting tree about 15 years ago and tried it with a handful of berries I harvested. It wasn't easy though because after removing and cleaning the beans (2 per berry or "cherry" they call it) the seed coat had to be scraped off before roasting. Bit of a hassle but that's the fun I guess.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:25 PM

14. This has been the assumption for several months now. nt

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:31 PM

17. I thought we knew this already?

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 03:37 PM

18. It seems that some appointees and others

were trying to parlay it into banning it all.... and then "science" maybe won out for now...

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:16 PM

19. Why are so many here celebrating this?

Everyone here is an adult, so if you choose it, or if it has helped you with quitting smoking, that's great.
But remember, nicotine is still a drug and the e-cigs are still a drug delivery system and should require a prescription.
Let me give you a personal view of the vaping:
We have adopted a 14 year old (was 12 when he moved in) and he has started vaping. He has a trauma history, with diagnosis of PTSD, AHDA, chronic depressive disorder, RAD, etc. He is looking for something to ease the pain. He has also grabbed random pills. So now he is addicted and when he doesn't get his fix, he stomps around the house like a caged animal. And when he finds that this drug didn't numb him, he'll be ready to move onto something else. Which might be manageable if he was the only consideration, but we have to worry about his 2 younger siblings trying to follow his example.
So your ease of accessibility is creating a nightmare in my house.

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:27 PM

21. You don't need a perscription for cigarettes

I'm not sure I understand the basis from which you debate. Why should your personal experience be the basis for a nationwide policy?

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:39 PM

23. You act like this would be an isolated incident even though vaping is rampant among teens.

There is no redeeming value to vaping except as a drug delivery system.
I'm not going to debate this, but there is no reason that these products should be widely available. If the smell is the appeal, buy a scented candle.

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:58 PM

25. The redeeming value of vaping is twofold

1. It is one of the best tools available for smoking cessation. It is one of the best because not only does it deliver nicotine (as you correctly stated), but it also mimics the actual feel and motions of smoking, thereby helping folks reduce the urge to use a cigarette. Cigarette smoking is FAR more than just nicotine delivery. There is a whole ritual associated with it that brings pleasure. Vaping helps mimic this while reducing exposure (notice I did not say eliminate) to harmful toxins found in cigarette smoke.

2. It is an effective method for reducing nicotine dependence in those who want it. And this effect comes by way directly of the varied flavors available. As a person advances in vaping they necessarily reduce the level of nicotine in the e-liquid used. Because of the flavors available other than tobacco flavor people who vape tend to move on to more and more powerful devices. The more powerful the device the less nicotine they can actually tolerate in their vape. Many either vape low to zero nic e-liquid or outright just quit.

You may say, well none of these effects would preclude one from getting a prescription to experience them. And you would be right. What would happen, however, is the cost of vape equipment and e-liquid would skyrocket due to the now limited market. Part of the allure with people who smoke even trying vaping is that at the outset vaping is more economical. However, restricting access by way of prescription would send many manufactures out of business and few would remain. Price would necessarily increase. As a result fewer and fewer people would be able to receive the benefits from this technology. This would then cause smoking rates to increase where as a direct result of vaping smoking rates are decreasing.

There are other benefits to vaping, and I suppose you may never know them. Good for you. These that I named above are the most important, however.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:29 AM

31. Yeah, this

The main reason I dropped cigarettes for vaping 5 years ago was the cost of cigarettes being something I could no longer tolerate or comfortably afford (they're around $15 a pack in Chicago due to taxes). At the time, I had no health insurance and no regular access to a doctor to prescribe anything. If I'd had to rely on prescriptions to get vaping stuff, I would still be a cigarette smoker today, and in much worse health.

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #23)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 07:01 AM

28. The redeeming value is no tar. Which is why hospitals in the UK sell vaping products to patients. nt

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:48 PM

24. A 14 year old is vaping

and has to be getting their supply somewhere. Do you know that it's illegal to sell these products to children under 18 in most places? Even to buy online you have to be able to provide a valid ID. Maybe you should be checking to see who it is that is supplying your minor with these products?

As for candy flavors in vape juice, there are also candy flavors in liquor. Shall we ban liquor too? OHhhh, right we already tried that with not so wonderful results. There are also -somewhat just to be snarky here - candy flavors in candy and desserts, perhaps we should do something about that too because all that sugar is bad for children. Oh - wait a minute - that's why children have parents and guardians; to tell them no when appropriate.

Almost anything in this world can be abused. The answer is not to systematically ban everything that can conceivably be bad for us but to recognize these things and communicate the dangers to our young people and regulate the behavior associated with these things.

I am truly sorry that things are "a nightmare" at your house but I don't think that legislating about this and restricting a product that has truly helped millions around the world to quit smoking cigarettes is the answer.

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Response to USAF Brat (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 13, 2019, 06:01 PM

29. Sudafed is behind the pharmacy counter. There is no legitimate reason for flavoring or accessibilty

The problem with these products is that there is no parental controls, a highly addictive substance is freely passed around schools. Heck our kid doesn't even have cash to use.
Don't see why so many people are getting worked up over a reasonable control.
Geez, this thread is like reading a right-wing forum.

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 01:26 AM

30. It already is age-registricted.

I don't know where you live, but here in IL vaping products can't be legally sold to anyone under 21 (until recently it was 18). They've NEVER been unregulated and legally sold to minors. Of course teens will get them through back channels just as they've always done with alcohol and cigarettes and other drugs - but it's not as if laws aren't in place to at least try to prevent this.

It's an already adults-only age-restricted product. There's no more justification for banning flavored vapes than there is for banning sweet fruit-flavored alcoholic drinks and cocktails - which are also attractive to kids, I guess. If a pina colada cocktail is legal for adults, why shouldn't a pina-colada flavored vape also be?

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 02:07 AM

32. Also, "why are so many here celebrating this?" is kind of a weird question in context

Why are so many people celebrating that the actual harmful ingredient that killed people has been found? Um....so maybe we're celebrating that that particular deadly ingredient is now known for sure and can be cracked down on so it won't kill any more people? So at least people know what to test for? These people were vaping something akin to the very poisonous preparations that were widely sold underground during Prohibition when safer alcohol was harder to come by.

We're also celebrating maybe there'll be less scaremongering about something that, while not totally harmless, is a HELL of a lot less harmful than either cigarettes or this horrifying Vitamin E additive (that no reputable vape company uses). That's...not at all a right-wing position. Right-wingers are ALL about the urban-legend-based scaremongering.

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Response to rwsanders (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 14, 2019, 03:57 AM

33. Plenty of people with PTSD self medicate with drugs

It is common for adults back from war to develop drug or alcohol problems. I don't know what to do about your situation. When I was a teen I could smoke cigarettes easily so the best is don't sell to anyone under 18 or give nicotine products to anyone under 18.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:22 PM

20. Like a week after the first reported illness

It was reported that vitamin E acetate was the culprit AND it was because of it's use in blackmarket THC cart. Regardless America decided to catch it's hair on fire and demonize nicotine type vaping. No, people are not dying from nicotine vaping. No there is not a teen vaping epidemic AND if you want teens to not vape (good luck) all you have to do is enforce the laws on the books.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 04:27 PM

22. Yup, black market THC carts...

I have toked off about 8 dispensary vape carts over the past two years, I prefer flower through water pipes, but it is what it is, and no issues, I interact with other tokers, none have reported any issues with dispensary carts.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:58 PM

26. It was a theory lacking evidence

the news here is that the evidence supporting the theory is showing up in the autopsies of the victims.

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