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Mon Nov 4, 2019, 10:59 AM

Trump Taxes: Appeals Court Rules President Must Turn Over 8 Years of Tax Returns

Source: New York Times

Trump Taxes: Appeals Court Rules President Must Turn Over 8 Years of Tax Returns
A three-judge appeals panel said the president's accounting firm had to comply with a subpoena.

By Benjamin Weiser
Nov. 4, 2019, 10:47 a.m. ET

A federal appeals panel said on Monday that President Trump's accounting firm must turn over eight years of his personal and corporate tax returns to Manhattan prosecutors, a setback for the president's attempt to keep his financial records private.

But the tax returns are not likely to be handed over soon. Mr. Trump has fought vigorously to shield his tax returns, and the case appears headed to the United States Supreme Court.

Mr. Trump had sought to block his accounting firm from releasing the tax returns to the office of the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr. Prosecutors in the office are investigating the role of the president and his business in hush-money payments made to two women just before the 2016 presidential election.

The legal fight began in late August after the office of Mr. Vance, a Democrat, subpoenaed Mr. Trump's accounting firm, Mazars USA, for his tax returns and those of his family business dating to 2011.
....

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/nyregion/trump-taxes-vance-appeal.html



Hat tip, David Fahrenthold, who retweeted Zoe Tillman:

This is the case where @realDonaldTrump's lawyer said he could literally shoot someone on 5th ave and not be investigated for it.
The appeals court did not agree.




BREAKING: The 2nd Circuit will not block a NY grand jury subpoena to Trump's accounting firm, finding Trump isn't likely to win arguing that any presidential immunity extends to something like this state grand jury investigation https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6538526/11-4-19-Trump-v-Vance-


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Reply Trump Taxes: Appeals Court Rules President Must Turn Over 8 Years of Tax Returns (Original post)
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 4 OP
bluestarone Nov 4 #1
Eliot Rosewater Nov 4 #2
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 4 #3
Eliot Rosewater Nov 4 #4
ScratchCat Nov 4 #8
vsrazdem Nov 4 #11
Fiendish Thingy Nov 4 #18
Miguelito Loveless Nov 4 #21
lagomorph777 Nov 4 #26
Eliot Rosewater Nov 4 #33
riversedge Nov 4 #41
DENVERPOPS Nov 4 #44
reACTIONary Nov 4 #40
Miguelito Loveless Nov 4 #51
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 4 #12
BumRushDaShow Nov 4 #32
BumRushDaShow Nov 4 #5
crazytown Nov 4 #27
ripcord Nov 4 #6
BumRushDaShow Nov 4 #9
ScratchCat Nov 4 #10
BumRushDaShow Nov 4 #19
berni_mccoy Nov 4 #13
bluestarone Nov 4 #14
TruckFump Nov 4 #17
Jarqui Nov 4 #35
maddogesq Nov 4 #47
Jarqui Nov 4 #48
jgmiller Nov 4 #7
getagrip_already Nov 4 #16
Kablooie Nov 4 #15
ArizonaLib Nov 4 #43
ffr Nov 4 #20
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 4 #22
crazytown Nov 4 #30
BumRushDaShow Nov 4 #36
LiberalLovinLug Nov 4 #38
crazytown Nov 4 #39
LiberalLovinLug Nov 4 #45
crazytown Nov 4 #46
aeromanKC Nov 4 #23
NoMoreRepugs Nov 4 #24
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 4 #25
mahatmakanejeeves Nov 4 #28
Bayard Nov 4 #29
wnylib Nov 4 #37
vlyons Nov 4 #31
CaptainTruth Nov 4 #34
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 4 #42
Texin Nov 4 #49
Brainfodder Nov 4 #50

Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:01 AM

1. AWESOME!!

Is this something the House can get its hands on?

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:04 AM

2. Someone explain what is the FORCING mechanism?

Neither rump nor Barr or anyone in that world will EVER comply with anything, ordered by a judge or not

never

So how do the documents physically get turned over?

Where are they, who can get them and turn them over when rump refuses to?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:05 AM

3. This is an accounting firm. They can't claim executive privilege. NT

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:07 AM

4. So it is thought this accounting firm has ALL documents, his real tax returns for X years

and all accompanying documents?

Same place for how many years?

Thanks, I just wondered. I bet they wont get turned over, but I hope they will.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:12 AM

8. Accountants are licensed by The State

The firm WILL turn over everything or the accountants would face losing their license. Frankly, they have no legal reason to not do so now as this appeals court ruled that Trump is unlikely to prevail on further appeal.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:17 AM

11. It was reported that they had already begun the process of gathering the information and said they

 

would comply with the subpoena when the case went to court, so they will hand them over, but are waiting for all the legal hurdles to be over.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:26 AM

18. The accountants, Mazars, have said they will comply with a court order

But the order will likely be stayed pending appeal to the SCOTUS. Once SCOTUS rules, then Mazars will have to comply.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:34 AM

21. If the SCOTUS agrees to hear the case,

that is a signal the fix is in for Trump. If they refuse to hear the appeal, then it is possible the returns will be handed over.

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:47 AM

26. SCROTUS is about to demonstrate the true scale of America's danger.

They WILL take the case, and thanks to Moscow Mitch's installation of Justices Gorsuck and Boof, we will see that we now have a King.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:13 PM

33. Yeah, that is what will happen. I have no doubt.

Just ask yourself what is the least democratic and patriotic thing one can do, and cons will do that.

SC even.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:49 PM

41. It will be a horrible, crying day.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:03 PM

44. Agreed

Now everyone sees the reason for the Republican's desperation to get Gorsuch and Kavanaugh installed in what is now the nation's highest kangaroo court. The last nails in the coffin needed to complete the Republican Party coup and confirm the tyranny......

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Response to Miguelito Loveless (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:47 PM

40. The SCOTUS will probably take the case regardless...

... it is too high a profile case to be dismissed without at least some semblance of public deliberation.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 05:53 PM

51. If the refuse to hear it

they are tacitly stating that the lower courts were correct. If they hear the case, they are stating their desire to overturn the lower court.

Also, hearing the case delays Trump's day of reckoning, which helps him.

It will be a very bad sign if they hear the case.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:17 AM

12. The accountants have the documents, and will turn them over.

Trump might defy a court order, but his accountants won't.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:08 AM

5. Was putting the trash out when this story broke



Bravo!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:49 AM

27. It was a sign!

 

PTL!

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:10 AM

6. Don't get too excited

This will be appealed to SCOTUS and they will probably take up the case.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:15 AM

9. The SC justice assigned to the 2nd District appeals is RGB.

IMHO, she should just reject it out of hand as a "state issue" (especially after that lawyer's idiotic argument ).

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:16 AM

10. They've actually raised no legal argument at all

It wouldn't surprise me to see it denied outright.

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Response to ScratchCat (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:28 AM

19. Exactly

Although their "argument" is an insistence, thanks to opinions by idiots like John Yoo, that the President is culpable of nothing - "while in office".

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:17 AM

13. Yup, he's got zero chance that RGB would allow this dirt on the SCOTUS floor.

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Response to berni_mccoy (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:20 AM

14. This would be sweet!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:26 AM

17. How delicious!!! RBG ruling on this! EOM

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:15 PM

35. That could be a poetic outcome since Trump basically all but wished her dead nt

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:40 PM

47. RGB rejects it on grounds it's a state issue.

The karma-licious thought makes me drool like a black lab waiting for steak dinner.

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Response to maddogesq (Reply #47)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:46 PM

48. That made me laugh out loud with delight at the notion - thank you! :) nt

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:12 AM

7. This is great but remember a couple of things

First to answer another poster the mechanism to force it is because NY is getting them from the accounting firm. The accounting firm doesn't want to be found in contempt of the order so they will turn them over if all appeals run out. NY can and will do many bad things to them that will damage their business if they ignore it.

Second if Vance gets his hands on them that doesn't mean they are made public, what it does mean is that Vance gets to see if he's up to anything illegal which eventually will be made public. None of this will bring him down immediately and it might never bring him down if there is nothing in there.

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Response to jgmiller (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:25 AM

16. but vance could also comply with a HoR subpoena for the doc's....

and turn them over to the house. He wouldn't be under any orders not to at that point.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:24 AM

15. Trump lawyers will probably invent some brand new nonsensical reason

To withhold the taxes and it will all have to be litigated all over again.
The reason doesn't have to be based on law.
If they lose it won't matter because the point is to delay, not win.
Once that loses another case will be started.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:03 PM

43. By Trump lawyers, you refer to the republican appointed SCOTUS members, right?

Because they are.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:29 AM

20. This is a BFD!

Now to see what kind of tax evasion scheme tRump used.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:36 AM

22. The 2nd Circuit made clear it was not deciding if a sitting president might be immune against....

The 2nd Circuit made clear it was not deciding if a sitting president might be immune against some criminal process. But if such immunity exists, it doesn't apply to a grand jury subpoena for private financial docs unrelated to his duties, the court held


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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:02 PM

30. And

 

"There is no obvious reason why a state could not begin to investigate a President during his term and, with the information secured during that search, ultimately determine to prosecute him after he leaves office"

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Response to crazytown (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:22 PM

36. That's basically what happened with Agnew

and he was attempting to consider invoking some kind of broad "immunity" but then changed strategies to attempt to actually HAVE the House impeach him (so then he could get a pardon later)... but none of that worked out and he eventually resigned and plead no contendere to MD state charges (I believe as part of a plea deal).

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Response to crazytown (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:41 PM

38. This image is too good to wish for

 

I dare not.

If Trump is not removed by the Senate, which doesn't seem likely.
Is it too much to hope to be able to watch Trump with real fear in his eyes days before, with polls showing he is 10 points back Then on election night, watching him go down in flames. And within hours, but I'll accept the next day, he is led away in handcuffs.
A lug can dream.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:46 PM

39. The cops ready at the side of the stage

 

waiting for his concession. A made for television moment

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Response to crazytown (Reply #39)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:18 PM

45. Wouldn't that be fantastic?!

 

The only reason to be leery of that happening would be how much it would trigger his loser base. I already fear how many "incidents" will be happening if he simply loses, let alone arrested on national TV immediately after.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #45)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:24 PM

46. Public disorder. Yes, I can see them delaying the arrest.

 

But the image of trump's eyes flicking sidewards, his voice and hands shaking. Ahhh well

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:40 AM

23. RICO

Ouch, that's gonna hurt.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:41 AM

24. Any news that ratchets up the pressure on the Orange

Menace is good news in my book. The fact that this particular can gets kicked down the road is even better news to me. The longer the investigations into EVERYTHING tRUMP and the closer we get to the election the more time and money he has to spend defending what will become indefensible once the facts come out.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:45 AM

25. Here's the nut of the 2d Cir. decision allowing a NY grand jury to subpoena non-private....

PerhapsSoHat Retweeted

Here's the nut of the 2d Cir. decision allowing a NY grand jury to subpoena non-private, non-privileged material from Trump's accounting firm. http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/09ac720a-de60-4dc8-aded-c205bf744023/1/doc/19-3204_opn.pdf#xml=http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/09ac720a-de60-4dc8-aded-c205bf744023/1/hilite/ Ö


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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:55 AM

28. Just as predicted. Trump's position in this case was doubly defective: improper invocation of....

Just as predicted. Trumpís position in this case was doubly defective: improper invocation of federal judicial power to derail a state proceeding and a crazy theory that sitting presidents canít be criminally investigated.


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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 11:59 AM

29. This ruling sounds like it would apply to all claims of executive privilege

Is that right?

Even if it gets to the Supremes, I can't believe they would rule against the Constitution.

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Response to Bayard (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:27 PM

37. Oh I think they would.

Bush. - Gore - 2000

I can' t imagine the current SCOTUS majority ruling against Don the don.

They might refuse to hear the case which would uphold the lower court ruling. Depends on what pressure they get from where and from whom.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:04 PM

31. Ain't that a shame?

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:13 PM

34. Several times I've mentioned US v Nixon (Watergate tapes subpoena) & this decision cites it.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 12:52 PM

42. Lock him up!!!!

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 02:09 PM

49. On to the SCOTUS, where he will be declared officially the King of America.

They will contort themselves into human pretzels in order to support his despicable ass. From there he and Barr et al - all of the rethugs in Washington can go to town with anything and everything they've all been dreaming of since before the Gilded Age. Unfortunately, I don't believe that there is one rethuglican sitting on that court principled enough decide against him.

I'd like to believe - indeed, fervently wish it to be so - that the rethugs in Washington might see this as an opportunity to shed themselves of this walking, talking disaster, and might quietly decide to begin talking quietly amongst themselves and hinting at some of the rethugs on the Court that they'd be basically down with the Court ruling against tRump. I'd like to believe that this could happen, but I really don't.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2019, 03:20 PM

50. The ridiculous dodging can now accelerate!

Can't wait to read what lameness they invent to dodge this *cough* guilty AF *cough* transparency.

Fools believing orange blob is anything but a grifter NOW, I don't care if they all drop dead of heart attacks, they too are part of the problem, and feels like only drastic solutions (aka mother nature) are going to fix it?

Trump & crue are holding up a better existence for the whole planet with his BULLSHIT!

Climate change and infrastructure are far more important than anything these jackasses are offering?

Moscow Mitch I would be happy to see him run over with a steamroller & sell the squish as art for helping to pay down the BULLSHIT he helped orchestrate? I'd pay a little for a framed reprint?



Don't we need civility before we can have a civil war? Not feeling it.



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