Jerry Nadler condemns 'vile' cartoon shared by Rashida Tlaib along with Trump's 'disloyal' Jews jibe

[brooklynite]

Source: New York Daily News

Rep. Jerry Nadler slammed President Trump’s remark about Jew being “disloyal” to Israel. But he also condemned fellow Democratic Michigan Rep. Rashida Tlaib for sharing a cartoon he claims has a “vile underlying message."

“The growing anti-Semitism in our political dialogue is repugnant,” Nadler (D-Manhattan) said.

...snip...

The senior Democratic lawmaker framed his statement as a condemnation of anti-Semitism on both sides of the political spectrum during a time that support for Israel becomes an issue in the American partisan divide.

Trump’s comments have been condemned as anti-Semitic by the Anti-Defamation League because they suggest Jews have or should have a loyalty to Israel along with the U.S.

The cartoon in question is much less clear-cut. It depicts Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu holding his hand over Tlaib’s mouth and Trump doing the same to Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), in a comment on Israel’s decision to bar the two lawmakers from visiting the occupied West Bank.

Link to tweet

Read more: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-jerry-nadler-trump-rashida-tlaib-cartoon-20190823-nr6wvxu425gazhrsgw44dxrwya-story.html

[exboyfil]

1. Isn't that what Trump and Netanyahu did

by denying them entry into Israel?

[sandensea]

6. Exactly

That's how those two are:

They act like Idi Amin- but demand the world sees them as Mother Teresa.

[question everything]

25. Trump cannot deny entry to Israel to any one

And Israel has a right to deny entry to the ones whose purpose is to eliminate her.

And.. of course, adding the star of David is a "nice touch."

[BeyondGeography]

2. So it's the cartoonist, not the cartoon?

Unless I’m missing something here.

[Mosby]

22. The arms in blue sleeves with the star of david in the middle is portraying the Israeli flag.

So the cartoon is using the old trope of Jews controlling and subverting world leaders and silencing critics.

The cartoonist is also a well known Antisemite.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. It was Israel that they were banned from visiting, after Trump suggested it

It was Trump who brought the state of Israel into it, and the Israeli government, led by Netanyahu, who joined in. It's actually about Netanyahu doing Trump's bidding, not the other way round (after all, it's Trump who benefits more by the demonization of the pair).

[Igel]

62. There were weeks of backstory.

Debates as to whether it was proper to let the two in given their BDS support and acts of anti-Semitism. It may not have been obvious to everybody in the US, but there was pressure to grant them a waiver under Israeli law to let them in for the official visit.

The debate sloshed over into the US, which is where Trump probably picked up on it.

About the same time, though, that Israel decided not to grant the waiver (they were already banned by the simple, clear wording of the Israeli law), it became clear that the official trip included no actual Israeli officials.

After that, you have to watch clearly not only the dates but also the time-stamps on any new bit of information, as well as clearly compare signatures and the normal referential meanings of words to have any clue at separating out the fog of disinformation from any semblance of what actually happened and who said what to whom when and why.

[BuddhaGirl]

37. It's Israel that is being represented in the cartoon.

n/t

[Mosby]

54. Demonizing the one Jewish country in the world is Antisemitic.

It's a new iteration of Antisemitism that relies on classic tropes but uses Israel and Zionism as the milieu.

The concept of a ‘new antisemitism’ directs our attention to some of the ways in which some people talk about Israel, Israelis and ‘Zionism’, suggesting that these ways have left the terrain of ‘criticism of Israeli policy’ and become something much darker.[ii] The concept is concerned to distinguish between legitimate criticism of that policy (most obviously, of the occupation of the territories, the settlement project, the treatment of minorities in Israel, and the degree of force Israel uses to restore deterrence against Hamas) and an essentialising, demonising and dehumanising discourse which bends the meaning of Israel and Zionism (and most Jews) out of shape until they are fit receptacles for the tropes, images and ideas of classical antisemitism.

The concept alerts us to antisemitism’s tendency to shape-shift through history. And to the possibility that since the creation of a Jewish state, in some quarters, what the demonized and essentialised ‘Jew’ once was, demonised and essentialised Israel now is: malevolent in its very nature, all-controlling, full of blood lust, and the obstacle to a better, purer, and more spiritual world.

The new antisemitism, which might also be called antisemitic anti-Zionism, has three components: a political programme to abolish the Jewish homeland, a discourse to demonise it, and a movement to make it a global pariah state. The old antisemitism – which has not gone away, but co-mingles with the new form – believed ‘the Jew is our Misfortune’. The new antisemitism proclaims ‘the Zionist is our misfortune’. The old antisemitism wanted to make the world ‘Judenrein’, free of Jews. The new antisemitism wants to make the world ‘Judenstaatrein’, free of the Jewish state which all but a sliver of world Jewry either lives in or treats as a vitally important part of their identity.

We have no right to be disbelieving of this development. After all, antisemitism has never really been about the Jews, but about the need of some non-Jews to scapegoat Jews. As those needs have changed throughout history, the physiognomy of antisemitism has also changed.

http://fathomjournal.org/denial-norman-finkelstein-and-the-new-antisemitism/

[BuddhaGirl]

68. I disagree

It is the bad actor here. It is not above reproach.

[yardwork]

75. Criticizing Israel is not automatically anti-Semitic.

Every country should be judged on their behavior. It is not anti-Muslim to criticize Saudi Arabia, nor anti-Catholic to criticize Italy. Nor are we automatically biased against Hindus if we criticize India.

[pnwmom]

3. So is the issue the use of the Star of David? I'm pretty sure I've seen Christian crosses

in cartoons.

And the two men are trying to silence the women on the subject of Israel, which is true.

[JI7]

14. trump isn't Jewish. why include the star of David ?

[pnwmom]

15. Because the issue for both men is the women's speaking out on Israel. n/t

[question everything]

26. Chrisitan crosses have never been used to incite mobs to murder Christians

But, of course, you know it.

[pnwmom]

29. This cartoon isn't an effort to incite mobs to murder anyone.

It's a statement about how the two men are trying to silence two women on the subject of Israel.

[Thomas Hurt]

77. The KKK was and is Anti-Catholic, it has always been Protestant...

and they have attacked Catholics, burned crosses and killed Catholics, among other discriminatory behavior. Now you are correct that there have been no mass killing or lynchings as with African Americans, but is this kind of behavior only problem if it rises to genocide?

You might want to question your own understanding of conservative christian terrorism in this country.

[LanternWaste]

84. Christian crosses have been burned and used to incite mobs to murder AfAms who were Christian.

"But, of course, you know it." Part II

[MontanaMama]

4. Maybe I'm missing something...

This cartoon is “vile”?

[elleng]

5. Ditto

[MontanaMama]

7. And why would Jerry be

bent out of shape over it?

[elleng]

8. I agree.

Maybe he's had coffee, and I haven't??? Don't get it.

[MontanaMama]

9. That's it.

I’m working on that right now. ☕️

[jayfish]

12. We're "Both-Siding" Ourselves Now.

Good grief.

[Initech]

10. It's vile to conservative snowflakes who can't stand it if someone doesn't kiss Trump's ass 100%.

[stopdiggin]

31. Nadler is a conservative snowflake? (nt)

[question everything]

27. Yes.

[Igel]

63. I'd call it not so much vile as

"untruthful."

Hard to see how either actually shut up either.

[treestar]

64. +1

[DallasNE]

11. "Vile Underlying Message"?

What is it? It is way too esoteric for me to get it so I need someone to explain it to me.

[Grokenstein]

34. The blue arms plus the Star of David equal Israeli flag

Last edited Fri Aug 23, 2019, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Whether the artist intended this to represent the subject matter, or to suggest some sort of conspiracy, I do not know; I'm not familiar with the artist's history/views. But by tossing it in there--and being coy about the meaning--they've left themselves open to these accusations.

[still_one]

41. Exactly. The Star of David implies Jews were trying to silence them, which is dishonest at best

and implying some type of conspiracy as you said at worst

In case anyone paid attention, most American Jews were against what Netenyahu and trump did

[emmaverybo]

42. Yes, American Jews, whom Israeli Jews wish would not meddle in their affairs. Israel has banned

other critics from entering.

For instance, Israel bans Miko Peled, grandson of a state founder, former soldier in Israeli army, and author of The General’s Son because he has questioned Israel’s official story of its founding and Israel’s military policies against Palestinians, subjects he knows a great deal about.

Israel also bans Norman Finkelstein, American anti-war activist, noted history and political science scholar, for his pro-Palestinian stance. Actually he is an outspoken humanitarian.

I am sure Netanyahou is quite grateful to Trump for taking the heat.

[still_one]

43. Finkelstein is a holocaust denier. I don't care if he is Jewish, Kapo's we're Jews also

[emmaverybo]

44. Well, news to me. Both parents were in concentration camps. If that is true, then certainly

Israel should ban him. However, I still stand by the fact that other critics get banned for being critics.

[still_one]

45. THis has nothing to do with his parents. He maintains that Jews only use the holocaust as a money

making machine. and has goes out of his way to minimize the holocaust

That is an insult against anyone who was part of that, including his parents

He is an intellectual self-hating Jew

[RhodeIslandOne]

73. Sad. He has deep problems n/m

[emmaverybo]

46. No. He has been defamed as a holocaust denier because he has accused Israel of exploiting

the horrors of the holocaust (experienced in his own family) to justify its racist and inhumane policies.

Dershowitz has had a large hand in discrediting Finkelstein, calling him “not a real Jew” for his being a secular Jew.


Snip——————————————- ( from The Guardian)

And, although The Holocaust Industry is Finkelstein's most frequently cited book in the defamatory attempts to cast him as a "Holocaust denier" and a "denier of justice to Holocaust survivors", Image and Reality in the Israel-Palestine Conflict - a thorough criticism of the central political and philosophical tenets informing Zionism - is his most scholarly and substantial work. But Finkelstein's detractors avoid discussion of Image and Reality for exactly that reason: it is considered a first-rate piece of scholarship. (Bolding mine)

Finkelstein argues that most US commentators obscure or avoid the clear historical and diplomatic record in examining the Israel-Palestine conflict by ignoring or downplaying international law, fooling the US public into believing that Israel's occupation is just, necessary, and lawful. One such example is the failure of the 2000 Camp David talks - a failure that has been attributed, at least in elite circles within the United States, to Yasir Arafat's intransigence. In actuality, what Bill Clinton and Ehud Barak offered Arafat was something no Palestinian leader could accept: a Bantustan state reminiscent of the African national territories.

Finkelstein's latest exposure of US and Israeli apologetics for state violence was of famed Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, who was at the centre of Finkelstein's analysis in Beyond Chutzpah: The Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History. In August 2003, Dershowitz published The Case for Israel, which Finkelstein uses as a foil in Beyond Chutzpah, demonstrating that Dershowitz misrepresents key diplomatic, legal and historical aspects of the conflict. Dershowitz attempted to block publication of Beyond Chutzpah by inundating the University of California Press with threatening letters from the major New York law firm of Cravath, Swaine, and Moore throughout the spring and summer of 2005, stating he would sue the press if it did not ensure that every claim Finkelstein made about Dershowitz was factually correct. Beyond Chutzpah was vetted by six experts of the Israel-Palestine conflict and several libel attorneys. When he could not prevail upon the press or the University of California's Board of Reagents, Dershowitz asked Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to intervene. Schwarzenegger refused to do so on grounds of academic freedom. Finkelstein wasn't so lucky at DePaul.

End snip——————————————-

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jun/14/abattleforacademicfreedom

[still_one]

47. He does in a devious way by minimizing it. I am not going to debate this discussion with you

further.

Have your "intellectual" games with those who wish to engage

But it is eye opening for me, but not surprising

Have a good day

[emmaverybo]

48. Take your marbles and go home. You absolutely can not show that Finkelstein denies the holocaust.

All you can do is cite commentary of those who defame him as a denier.

[still_one]

49. Ya got the last word

[pnwmom]

52. Netanyahu is Jewish and the leader of Israel. Not all Jews were trying to ban them,

just Netanyahu and his team.

But Netanyahu does represent Israel, unfortunately, just like Trump represents us. And someone opposing Trump would be justified in showing him with an American flag.

[still_one]

55. So. What does Netanyahu being Jewish have to do with his attrocious policies?

[pnwmom]

57. Nothing. The imagery in the cartoon comes from the Israeli flag.

You said that the Star of David implies Jews were trying to silence them.

Netanyahu is a Jew who was trying to silence them. He is also the leader of the State of Israel (whose flag contains the Star of David) just like Trump is the leader of the US. And both have been trying to silence the women on the subject of Israel.

[FreeLookMode]

82. The Israeli flag implies ISRAEL is trying to silence them, which is exactly what happened.

When will we stop conflating criticism of Israeli government with criticism of Jewish people?

It's ok to criticize:

Israeli government
Lobbyists who lobby on behalf of the Israeli government's interests
Organizations, politicians and countries that ignore the Israeli governments appalling acts and behaviors.

And its a total disingenuous tactic of people who don't want that criticism to get here to brand it anti-jewish.

[pnwmom]

51. Israel barred two American members of Congress from coming to Israel to speak.

So that is why the cartoon includes the references to Israel.

Why is that any more vile than including an American flag or Christian cross in a cartoon?

[still_one]

39. The Star of David is saying Jews, Trump, and Netenyahu are trying to silence them. American Jews

we’re almost universally against what Netenyahu and Trump did, including AIPAC

[24601]

74. Using of the Star of David isn't just political, i.e. Israel as a nation today. It's use in Nazi

propaganda was intended to represent Jewish greed and influence that weakened Germany and provided the basis for blaming Jews for Germany's economic problems in the run-up to WW II.

[still_one]

76. I know. It is a dog whistle that some seem so willing to ignore

[JI7]

13. it's offensive becsuse it makes it seem like jews are trying

to silence them.

i mean. the fucking cartoon is from some holocaust cartoon contest in Iran.

[pnwmom]

16. Netanyahu banned them, and then told one she could only come if she didn't speak.

And they are US members of Congress.

[DallasNE]

23. So It Is The Source Of The Message

That makes the message vile? But silencing the messenger is what the cartoon attacks.

[SergeStorms]

24. The cartoon isn't from some holocaust cartoon contest...

the cartoonist participated in 2006 Iranian holocaust cartoon contest. Just being factual.

[Archae]

17. Latuff is a "Palestinians can do no wrong" asshole.

Like drawing the cartoon for that Iranian Holocaust "competition" and this bit of propaganda:

https://stopthewall.org/carlos-latuff-we-are-all-palestinians

Other anti-Jewish cartoons from the competition and by Latuff:

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/germany-condemns-iranian-holocaust-cartoon-competition-1.5384709

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/04/21/i-dont-trade-ideology-for-money-cartoonist-carlos-latuff/

[BeyondGeography]

19. Do you really think this is worth igniting another intraparty public feud?

Perhaps Tlaib retweeted the cartoon without knowing the cartoonist’s history or even knowing who he was. Maybe check first?

[The Mouth]

21. She should know better and do better

I expect more from her. We'd be all over any Rethuglican using offensive imagery of African Americans or Asians, wouldn't we? Except you would expect Trumpista to share something from Daily Stormer, but this isn't much better in my opinion. One can oppose some of Israel's polices without being anti-Semitic; and one can oppose some of Israel's policies or its government without using imagery and memes from anti-Semites and holocaust deniers.

[pnwmom]

50. What is the offensive imagery? Picturing Netanyahu in a cartoon? I'm sure I've seen crosses

in cartoons before, and never seen anyone here object to that.

[JudyM]

28. There is nothing wrong with promulgating antisemitism-tinged cartoons because...

why....?

[Marengo]

30. Latuff is a well-known judeophob, and it's simply not believable Tlaib isn't aware of that. If she..

Had an R next her name, DU would be apoplectic and this contrast is depressing as another poster has observed.

[stopdiggin]

33. Taliab needs to exercise better judgement

but that's the problem with the whole "shoot from the hip" twitter messaging model. I don't agree that the cartoon is particularly anti-semitic, or "vile" .. but the source of the material could easily be questioned. And it would be nice if we could see judgement exercised by our elected officials somewhere above the level of freshman college students. I give BOTH Nadler and Taliab low marks on this one!

[BeyondGeography]

53. Fair enough

[treestar]

66. There are Israel can do no wrong people too

This is a case where both sides really have tired the rest of us out. You want to tell them to just stop. Stop the terrorist attacks and stop allowing Israelis to settle in the West Bank.

[Archae]

67. Yes there are. BUT...

Israel can change their government.

The Palestinians are ruled by dictatorships, Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.

And BOTH are still viciously anti-Jewish, most of them want nothing more than to destroy Israel and kill any and every Jew.

They say this flat out in their media.

The Palestinians are also viciously anti-gay.

[treestar]

69. So it sounds like the Palestinians are all bad people

Who deserve to be treated badly.

This is like divorce - both sides try to convince that the other is just so evil, they deserve everything that can be visited upon them.

There are Palestinians who make a good case they were badly treated, too.

Both sides tire me out with their claims that the others are so bad they deserve to be eliminated. Even Jimmy Carter can only make so much progress with them. Even the Irish question was resolvable, but this goes on and on. It's like they don't even want anything but to be victim of the other side, so if the other side gave in and stopped, they'd be disappointed and do something to keep it going.

[Archae]

70. I never said that!

It's just long past time the Palestinians dump the anti-Jewish shit, dump Hamas, quit shooting rockets from Gaza, and quit their using cartoon characters in "kill all Jews and become martyrs" programs broadcast to little kids.

[treestar]

71. It's time you stopped blaming them all

And we can't control terrorists. Every time there is a terror attack, all of the Palestinians are to be punished. It is justified with "they s support it." They have no army. They are considerably weaker. It's time the settlements stopped, to and the ones started were withdrawn.

[BuddhaGirl]

72. +1

[LuvNewcastle]

78. Agreed.

Those settlements have got to stop before there will be any peace over there. Unfortunately, there are people on both sides who benefit from the perpetual warfare.

[Bettie]

80. +1

Thanks for saying it.

Yeah, imagine waking up in the morning to find that during the night someone has come and taken over your property and your only recourse is to move.

[Mike 03]

18. I guess the Star of David is the problem (?)

EDIT: Oh, wait, this is from a Holocaust cartoonist. That's in great taste.

[matt819]

32. STFU, Nadler

Go talk to your colleague. Don't air your complaints.

Regardless of the origin of the cartoon, you know that it's not off base. What it's portraying is exactly what happened.

I am so sick and tired of these sort of knee jerk responses.

Hey, look, I grew up in the 50s and 60s in NYC believing that Israel was our country as much as the US. I could have gone and claimed Israeli citizenship. I knew people who lost family in the Holocaust. Every time Jewish organizations knocked on the door, my parents gave, and they proudly displayed their I Gave sticker on the front door. Most neighbors were Jewish, though not all.

But you know something? I grew up. I changed, America changed, Israel changed. I still have relatives who remain (blindly?) loyal to Israel, and they do not see this as a conflict with their status as second generation Americans. I don't. And Israel has made quite a few questionable decisions in the past decade or more, and as a result Palestinians are suffering, and non-Jews in Israel are now second-class citizens. America has to have a realistic relationship with Israel, not a fawning one based on realities that no longer exist.

So, Nadler, STFU. You got a problem? Talk to Rep. Tlaib and (horrors?) the Squad. You're all Democrats, and only as a united bloc - even one with differences - will you, and we, regain power in Washington. These sorts of internecine squabbles just play into the hands of the anti-Semites, Islamophobes (though it's not so much phobia as it is hate), white supremacists, and nationalists.

We get it. Now just stop it.

[stopdiggin]

36. 100% that was great, on virtually every point! (nt)

[BeyondGeography]

38. Thank you

[bluestarone]

40. My thoughts as well

[yardwork]

60. Great rant!

[Owl]

79. Thank you.

[Bettie]

81. Well said

thanks for that.

[njhoneybadger]

56. So if you criticize a country's policies your some kind of racist

[Devil Child]

59. Even more so when the country being criticized is Israel

[treestar]

65. Yes, anti-semitism seems to be equivalent

to questioning anything Israel does.

That is equated to wanting to "eliminate Israel."

I've even seen the assertion that it is anti-semitic for Americans to question US aid to Israel.

To care in the least about the plight of any Palestinian seems to bring up anti-semitism too, along with assertions that all Palestinians are to blame for their plight.

[Chemisse]

58. Tlaib had the high ground after what happened with the trip to Israel. She should have kept it.

It's a mistake to continue the political squabbles via twitter. She will need to win reelection in two years and voters presumably would prefer to have a representative who is busy doing the job, and not always in the midst of international drama.

[Schmice3]

61. What am I missing here?

I know that he has to reassure his base. Still, what exactly qualifies it to be filed under the "vile" category

[FreeLookMode]

83. A cartoon that spells out the flag of Israel is a perfect and apt criticism of Israeli government

When will we stop conflating criticism of Israeli government with criticism of Jewish people?

It's ok to criticize:

Israeli government
Lobbyists who lobby on behalf of the Israeli government's interests
Organizations, politicians and countries that ignore the Israeli governments appalling acts and behaviors.

And its a total disingenuous tactic of people who don't want that criticism to get here to brand it anti-jewish.