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Mon Jun 10, 2019, 02:02 PM

Detroit Police Slammed For Handling Of Neo Nazis At Motor City Pride Festival

Source: Metro Times

June 10, 2019, 11:22 AM. The nation looked on with disbelief and anger as social media lit up with photos and videos of armed neo-Nazis marching in downtown Detroit with what appeared to be police protection during Motor City Pride this weekend.

About a dozen members of the National Socialist Movement (NSM) marched with swastikas and riot shields, tore up a pride flag and hurled slurs at the LGBTQ+ community who gathered at Hart Plaza. One of the neo-Nazis appeared to urinate on an Israeli flag.

Surrounding the neo-Nazis were at least a dozen Detroit police officers, some of whom pushed festival-goers who tried to confront the neo-Nazis. In one video, a person shouts to police, "Why are you protecting them? These are literal Nazis." In another video, someone shouts, "Our police should be protecting us."

Detroit police have not responded yet, but Sgt. Nicole Kirkwood told the Metro Times that a press conference will be held Monday to explain the officers' actions. Coverage of the police "protection" was covered by Newsweek and the U.K.-based Independent, but the neo-Nazis' menacing presence was largely ignored by the local media. -MORE & VIDEO...



Read more: https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/06/10/detroit-police-slammed-for-handling-of-neo-nazis-at-motor-city-pride



One officer with Detroit Police said, on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to talk with media, that the officers did protect the public by surrounding the armed neo-Nazis. Police feared the gunmen would open fire if they felt threatened he said. Some of the police officers wore rainbow pins shaped like a heart.

Many people who were following the event on social media were outraged over the police response. "Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought the primary purpose of a police presence at public events like Detroit's LGBTQ Pride Festival was to keep the peace and ensure everyone's safety, rather than facilitate efforts by neo-Nazis to intimidate participants and provoke violence," tweeted Donald Koelper.


_______________________________________________________

-SLATE, 'Armed Neo-Nazis Get a Police Escort to Disrupt Detroit Pride,' June 9, 2019.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/armed-neo-nazis-police-escort-detroit-pride.html

...The members from the National Socialist Movement, which the Southern Poverty Law Center characterizes as one of the largest neo-Nazi groups in the United States and one that specializes in provocative protests, made Nazi salutes and openly carried weapons while they were protesting. Video posted on social media shows one small group of neo-Nazis marching while someone yells "fuck you, faggots" into a bullhorn.

While police say their goal was to keep the neo-Nazis and those attending Motor City Pride away from each other, many expressed anger that law enforcement officers were making it possible for white supremacists to disrupt Pride with hateful messages. "Where was Detroit Police when armed Nazis were marching with their NAZI FLAG shouting Homophobic slurs, anti-black racism, and white nationalism you ask? Serving and Protecting THE NAZIS," one activist wrote on Twitter. "It's 2019 and cops are escorting Nazis through a pride celebration. Disgusting," another wrote.

Detroit wasn't the only city that saw its Pride celebrations disrupted this weekend. Seven people were sent to the hospital in D.C. after fears of an active shooter led to a stampede. People gathered around Dupont Circle started running after hearing what they thought was a gunshot. A man was taken into custody and is facing a charge of gun possession, but Mayor Muriel Bowser tweeted that police said there were "no shots fired." - More at link above.

- JERUSALEM POST, 'Nazi Group Disrupts Detroit Pride Parade, Urinate On Israeli Flag,' June 10, 2019.
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Neo-Nazi-group-disrupts-Detroit-Pride-parade-urinate-on-Israeli-flag-591998

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Reply Detroit Police Slammed For Handling Of Neo Nazis At Motor City Pride Festival (Original post)
appalachiablue Jun 10 OP
Crowman2009 Jun 10 #1
Mendocino Jun 10 #8
Jedi Guy Jun 10 #2
Politicub Jun 10 #3
Jedi Guy Jun 10 #4
Igel Jun 10 #5
obamanut2012 Jun 10 #7
Jedi Guy Jun 10 #9
Progressive Jones Jun 10 #10
Jedi Guy Jun 10 #11
Progressive Jones Jun 11 #12
melm00se Jun 11 #15
X_Digger Jun 12 #32
appalachiablue Jun 10 #6
AllaN01Bear Jun 11 #13
JudyM Jun 11 #14
RobinA Jun 11 #16
The Mouth Jun 11 #17
X_Digger Jun 12 #33
Codeine Jun 13 #36
icymist Jun 11 #18
MosheFeingold Jun 19 #38
Oneironaut Jun 11 #19
icymist Jun 11 #20
Jedi Guy Jun 11 #21
icymist Jun 11 #23
Jedi Guy Jun 11 #24
icymist Jun 11 #25
Oneironaut Jun 11 #26
icymist Jun 11 #27
Haggis for Breakfast Jun 11 #29
icymist Jun 11 #30
Haggis for Breakfast Jun 12 #31
Oneironaut Jun 12 #34
icymist Jun 12 #35
MosheFeingold Jun 19 #39
tenderfoot Jun 11 #22
stillcool Jun 11 #28
Jake Stern Jun 18 #37

Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 04:20 PM

1. Detroit Police has a history of being a facist right-wing loving lot.

Here's what happened during the Belle Isle Love-in back in 1967:

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Response to Crowman2009 (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 08:23 PM

8. Kick Out The Jams

I still have my MC5 vinyl album in great shape. The 78 is trashed. They were punk before there was punk.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 04:41 PM

2. No matter what the cops did, they were gonna catch a bunch of flak for it.

I feel like they made the best play they could, given the circumstances. They kept it from turning violent, and as noted in the article, some of the officers involved made their sympathies known via those pins they wore.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 05:09 PM

3. They didn't make "the best play they could"

Fuck the nazis. The best play they could would be making them stand in a free-speech zone. Don't escort them into the parade.

There should be no quarter or accommodation for nazis. Ever.

There are nazi sympathizers in America and some are in power or part of the police force. These people are dangerous. They need to be exposed as the right-wing terrorists they are.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 05:22 PM

4. You realize the cops don't make that decision, right? About making people use free-speech zones?

That's something decided by the city. The cops may have input into the decision, but ultimately they just enforce whatever decision is made. So you're directing your ire at the wrong target on that score.

The cops kept anyone from being injured or killed. Given the volatility of the situation (and the Nazis) I'd count that as a victory.

And like it or not, the Nazis have the same First Amendment rights that we do. I'm not thrilled to see Nazis marching in the streets, but neither am I willing to undermine free speech rights by abridging theirs.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 06:17 PM

5. The thing about "free speech zones"

is that they are *the* places for free speech.

We like it when it's speech we don't like. Box it up, shove it in a hole, make sure it's easy to be dealt with like something invading the body (politic) from the outside that can't be allowed to contaminate the rest. So Nazis, off to the free-speech cubby with you. Even better, it makes it easier to intimidate them--it's not just mostly no-platforming them, it's also a way to cow them.

But such decisions have to be viewpoint neutral. Otherwise we've gutted the Constitutions provisions for assembly and free speech and said that there's government-approved speech and government-disapproved speech. But if we make it viewpoint neutral, then there's a mighty big downside.

You want a Pride event? Fine. You hold it in the free speech zone. Because other places aren't for free speech, but must be neutral (or administration-only). Suddenly the idea is offensive and probably hurtful.

At that point you're like Putin, where only certain things can be said, and those must get government approval. Or like Algeria, where public assemblies are still forbidden unless blessed by the appropriate-speech commissars.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 07:55 PM

7. Just stop carrying their water

They stood by while the LEGAL MARCHERS were shoved aside by the Nazis, and had their property stolen and destroyed by literal NAZIS. The cops protected them, it was obvious.

So many apologists of Fascist cops on these threads.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 08:41 PM

9. What property was stolen and destroyed? Who was shoved aside?

There's nothing in the article about any property being stolen or destroyed. No mention of anyone being shoved aside by the Nazis, either. And that makes sense, since the cops were there to prevent contact between the Nazis and the rest of the people at the parade. Do you have anything you can cite to back up your assertions?

Nothing indicates that the cops were in solidarity with the Nazis. Some of the cops were wearing rainbow heart-shaped pins. Do you expect me to believe that those cops are peachy with the Nazis? What evidence do you have that any of those cops are fascists?

If the cops had stood off to the side and observed, there's a pretty solid chance that this would have been a bloodbath. They picked the least bad of a set of really shitty choices, and I'm fine with that, given the possible alternatives.

They have the same free speech rights as anyone else. You don't have to like it, but you do have to live with it.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 10:25 PM

10. You are correct. This is one of the major, pathetic flaws in our Constitution and legal system.

The Constitution is archaic and simple minded in many ways, given the changes in US society over the past 200+ years.
You don't have to like that, but you have to live with it.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 11:55 PM

11. I think of it as a feature rather than a bug, personally.

I'd prefer to live in a society where there is freedom of expression, even if that means objectionable or reprehensible ideas fall under the umbrella of protected speech. I'd just as soon not have a government, any government, deciding which ideas are acceptable and which are not.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that you'd see the Constitution changed so that objectionable speech can be suppressed or banned. Bear in mind that if that were the case, this website would long since have been shut down and a great many of us would be in jail, given how Dolt 45 feels about those who speak against him. The problem with banning objectionable speech is that it all turns on who gets to define what "objectionable" means.

If that's not what you meant, my apologies in advance for misinterpreting what you said.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:34 AM

12. I believe that there needs to be a line drawn.

We're not talking about simple 'ideological differences" when talking about the likes of nazis. These are people who would gladly kill half of all Americans, given the chance, and the power to do so.
I reiterate -- They want certain kinds of Americans dead, if they get their way.
I'm aware that my explanation here is simplistic, but do you believe for a minute that the Founders envisioned
anything like nazism, or "white nationalism", or anything similar raising its' ugly head in this nation? Don't believe that "it can't happen here". They are running for office, and already hold elected office. Steve King (R-IA), is an example. His own party can't even stand him. They've taken all power, except for his vote, away from him in the House.

We are talking about a serious threat to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" if this kind of ideology
ever took hold in our government. I'm also aware that numbers-wise, they are now small, but it is a growing movement.
Given a few decades of growth, and it could become monstrous.

Thanks for listening.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:35 AM

15. The US Constitution, specifically the Amendments to it,

works best when it is used to expand rather than limit rights.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 10:12 AM

32. Popular speech needs no protection- it's popular. If free speech is to mean anything..

.. it has to protect the most reprehensible speech.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2019, 06:32 PM

6. CBS Local, 'Police Chief Says Nazis Wanted Charlottesville 2.0' At Detroit Pride Event

DETROIT (AP) — Detroit’s police chief says officers prevented violence by a neo-Nazi group that wanted to spark “Charlottesville No. 2” during a gay pride festival over the weekend. Chief James Craig said Monday that five people among about 15 white supremacists were legally carrying firearms while they traded barbs with 15-20 counterprotesters during the Motor City Pride festival in downtown Detroit.

Craig says the department’s intelligence sources indicated the group wanted to spark violence similar to the deadly 2017 white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Craig says officers kept the groups separate and no injuries occurred. He says members of both groups shouted racial epithets at each other and toward police officers in an attempt to bait them into a violent response. No shots were fired during the confrontation..https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2019/06/10/police-chief-says-neo-nazis-wanted-charlottesville-2-0-at-detroit-pride-event/

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:23 AM

13. i hope these people will be doxxed .

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 09:27 AM

14. They're allowed to carry guns while marching. That's a problem waiting to happen.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:29 AM

16. Wow!

I'm reading about trashing the 1st Amendment on a board that purports to be liberal.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 12:19 PM

17. Plenty of people who are supposedly 'liberal'

support free speech only as long as they agree with it. There are lots fascist cretins on both sides of the political spectrum who want what they consider 'hate speech' banned, for example. Great, until you aren't the one to define 'hate speech', then, not so great.

If you don't support free speech for *EVERYBODY* , you don't support it at all. In particular the most disgusting and heinous ideas and words.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 10:17 AM

33. Plenty of left-leaning authoritarians out there.

They want to do away with the 4th amendment (they love stop-and-frisk).

They despise the first amendment when it comes to fox news or nazis.

Let's not even mention the second amendment- tear up the whole damned constitution when it comes to gunz.

They're perfectly happy to do away with the right to due process (for those people they despise).

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Response to RobinA (Reply #16)

Thu Jun 13, 2019, 12:14 AM

36. Some users have a pick and choose approach

to the freedoms protected by the Bill of Rights.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 01:25 PM

18. These are literal gun-toting Nazis and people in this thread are standing up for them!

Marching through a Pride parade, pushing people to the ground and urinating on flags is NOT free speech. The Detroit police department are complicit by escorting the Nazis through the parade, enabling them to do this violence.

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Response to icymist (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 03:12 PM

38. I don't think anyone is standing up for the National Socialists

You defend the Constitution.

Bad law is made from hard situations. We all agree these guys are bad and stupid.

But who gets to determine what is bad and stupid? Donald Trump? After all, he's the chief law enforcement officer of the USA. What would he ban, if given the opportunity?

Hence why the 1st Amendment is black and white.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 01:34 PM

19. I don't think the cops did anything wrong.

IMO, it’s not like the cops wanted to help the Nazis. They wanted to keep the two sides away from each other - especially if there might be armed Nazis who want any excuse in the world to start shooting. It’s a difficult dilemma.

What the Nazis did also wasn’t against the law. Assaulting them for their words is.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 02:14 PM

20. I see.

Good people on both sides, eh?

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Response to icymist (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 06:37 PM

21. Except that's not at all what Oneironaut said.

The cops can either surround them to keep them from starting a violent brawl, or stand off and watch the bloodshed unfold. Me personally, I'm glad they went with the former, particularly since these clowns were armed and could have easily killed a bunch of people.

And people in this thread are not standing up for the Nazis, we're standing up for the right to freedom of speech that all of us, the Nazis included, have. Just because you don't like them or what they have to say doesn't mean they don't have the right to say it.

As I said to someone else upthread, you don't have to like that, but you do have to live with it.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 07:02 PM

23. So let me get this straight...

You're saying that armed, uniformed Nazis marching with police protection in order to disrupt a Gay Pride parade, pushing people to the ground and pissing on gay and Israeli flags is free speech that I need to live with?! Go suck an egg.

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Response to icymist (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 07:38 PM

24. Apart from the physical bit, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

They have the same right to freedom of assembly that the rest of us have, which means they can be there. They have the same right to freedom of speech that the rest of us have, which means they can piss on those flags. I'm guessing that it's legal to openly carry a gun in Michigan, as well. The one who shoved someone should have been arrested for assault, though.

And the cops were protecting everyone since the Nazis were there with the clear intent to provoke a fight, which would've been a bloodbath since they were armed. The article mentioned that some of the cops were wearing heart-shaped rainbow pins, so they made their sympathies known while still keeping everyone safe.

But yeah, this is absolutely something you need to live with. Freedom of speech and assembly is not just for you and the people you like or agree with. That's the real world.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 08:10 PM

25. I already told you what I thought.

I don't need somebody explaining to me what I need to live with.

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Response to icymist (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 08:25 PM

26. No. Nazis are terrible people who have the right to free speech.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 08:38 PM

27. Do not confuse free speech with actions.

Nazis do not have the right to march through a permitted parade with intent to disrupt while pushing people to the ground.

This is 2019 right? I can't believe we're having such an argument!

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Response to icymist (Reply #27)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:27 PM

29. When did cops become such pussies ?

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:37 PM

30. When they started wearing smiley faces

and escorting Nazis through parades they weren't invited to.

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Response to icymist (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 12:07 AM

31. we've got this backwards here.

Cops should be concerned with beneficial well-care of those people who filed for the permits and registrations; the organizers of the permitted march, not these outside provocateurs, who were marching around armed, shoving people around and screaming nazi-slogans with their bullhorns. They were there not to march alonsgside, but to disrupt. And because they were in number and had guns, cops pussied out on doing their jobs.

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Response to icymist (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 11:25 AM

34. It's a grey area, I think.

Technically, it’s a counter-protest. They also knowingly go there to start trouble. It’s hard to distinguish between the two before it happens. Once they’re there, trying to remove them might cause a riot.

Nazis usually feign ignorance and innocence when asked if they are going to start trouble.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 12, 2019, 01:22 PM

35. They're packing guns and wearing shields and helmets for fucks sake!

The intent is obvious!

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Response to icymist (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 03:13 PM

39. He didn't say that.

The police (which I was one -- a long time ago) are tasked with keeping the peace and protecting life.

This includes worthless POS like these so-called National Socialists.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 06:50 PM

22. Gotta look out for those Nazis and all the good they stand for!

Image if someone stole their flag? Such a lack of respect for private property!



At least the US doesn't hate freedom of expression like Germany does.

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2019, 08:41 PM

28. I remember when groups had...

to get permission from whoever was putting on the parade to march in it. I guess that is no longer the case? Or is it up to the cops to decide who can, and who can't?

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Response to appalachiablue (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2019, 11:14 PM

37. They could have stopped them from entering the area that was permitted to the Pride Parade

Cops showing their true colors.

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