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erronis

(14,853 posts)
Sun May 26, 2019, 02:46 PM May 2019

Le Pen beats Macron in France as nationalists gain in EU vote

Source: Reuters

Marine Le Pen’s far-right party edged just ahead of the centrist alliance of President Emmanuel Macron in exit polls as French voters led what pollsters expected to be a nationalist surge in an EU parliament election on Sunday.

The defeat for the president was narrow amid a sharply increased turnout that was matched across the continent in what Brussels is portraying as a positive sign, in spite of gains for anti-EU groups.

But it was a bitter blow for those who hope the French leader can inspire Europeans to embrace the Union as an answer rather than as part of the problem in the face of social change that has bewildered and frustrated some voters.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election/le-pen-beats-macron-in-france-as-nationalists-gain-in-eu-vote-idUSKCN1SV0QQ?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews



The center and left of Europe (and the US) are being undermined by a concerted effort. From whom? Not just the Putin/USSR group but probably oligarchs around the world.
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Le Pen beats Macron in France as nationalists gain in EU vote (Original Post) erronis May 2019 OP
Not good. democratisphere May 2019 #1
Trump is spreading this contagious disease at140 May 2019 #2
putin bluestarone May 2019 #3
Putin's master plan for Europe. emmaverybo May 2019 #12
Putin uses the very freedoms and openness afforded under democratic systems sop May 2019 #28
Actually Putin is spreading the disease. Initech May 2019 #21
Putin's economy is less than 1/10th size of Xi's economy at140 May 2019 #22
No, its always been there as for who's fanning the flames for it to help it the most my cstanleytech May 2019 #23
How is Putin winning here in US? at140 May 2019 #25
Well first off the weakened sanctions against Russia for one not to mention his weakening cstanleytech May 2019 #29
Donald Trump is president... jmbar2 May 2019 #36
More Americans have jobs, Putin or no Putin at140 May 2019 #39
agreed Russia is weak economically... jmbar2 May 2019 #42
Best thing voters can do is.. at140 May 2019 #43
There is no evidence for this. Ghost Dog May 2019 #51
See Mueller Report jmbar2 May 2019 #57
"devastatingly effective worldwide" Ghost Dog May 2019 #58
There are more available jobs because Baby Boomers are retiring. Sparky 1 May 2019 #60
Those numbers say one thing xxqqqzme May 2019 #56
#1 wealth creator in any country is... at140 May 2019 #59
We will spread the antidote soon Politicub May 2019 #54
Trump is part of the disease, not the cause. Odoreida May 2019 #55
Steve Brannon is everywhere. He wants to blow up the world. badhair77 May 2019 #4
The Russians are good at this. Turbineguy May 2019 #5
Vichy France Redux. How pathetic still_one May 2019 #6
This is depressing.. Fascism winning without a fight.. mountain grammy May 2019 #7
Oligarchs leading willfully ignorant rubes to slavery MarcA May 2019 #8
This is VERY bad news !!! ananda May 2019 #9
Marine le Pen is a cancer upon France. Haggis for Breakfast May 2019 #46
And MF45 is definitely a chancre on the butt of America... ananda May 2019 #50
Why is this happening? srobertss May 2019 #10
I think you are right about the climate crisis. The poor/disenfranchised will try to survive erronis May 2019 #11
Hard to imagine the future srobertss May 2019 #13
Climate is only indirectly impacting Voltaire2 May 2019 #14
No disagreement here. Greed doesn't need excuses. It is baked into some people. erronis May 2019 #17
Virtually stateless billionaires srobertss May 2019 #18
The right-wing fascists are responsible for the corruption and lies. It's Hitler and Stalin again. rockfordfile May 2019 #34
Agreed! Economic disparity is the real problem at140 May 2019 #44
Global Trumpism Hassin Bin Sober May 2019 #31
Thank you srobertss May 2019 #33
Great resource jmbar2 May 2019 #41
Syria and Israel are next to one another. former9thward May 2019 #47
Israel has some of the most high-tech farming methods in the world NickB79 May 2019 #48
I know what Israel has. former9thward May 2019 #53
increase in Muslim population JI7 May 2019 #49
The Le Pen vote IdealsAndReal42 Aug 2019 #61
Plutocrats fund these campaigns to create social division, thereby no public cohesion. KY_EnviroGuy May 2019 #15
+1 Kurt V. May 2019 #27
Bannon is around helping the right wing Nuggets May 2019 #16
The US right wing helped flip Brazil and now they're going after France. Initech May 2019 #19
Putin and criminal oligarchs...................... turbinetree May 2019 #20
Groaning Lulu KC May 2019 #24
this is not accurate. the right gained some. the left gained some. the neoliberal macronn lost some Kurt V. May 2019 #26
In reading the article The Liberal Lion May 2019 #30
I don't think so. Fascism/Nazism is a big problem again. rockfordfile May 2019 #40
This is accurate, thanks. Ghost Dog May 2019 #52
This message was self-deleted by its author bamagal62 May 2019 #32
However.... paleotn May 2019 #35
That's Right Me. May 2019 #38
More Me. May 2019 #37
You are right burrowowl May 2019 #45

at140

(6,110 posts)
2. Trump is spreading this contagious disease
Sun May 26, 2019, 02:50 PM
May 2019

Italy, Australia, Hungary and some others have already been infected.

sop

(9,846 posts)
28. Putin uses the very freedoms and openness afforded under democratic systems
Sun May 26, 2019, 08:20 PM
May 2019

to destroy these democracies from within.

Initech

(99,881 posts)
21. Actually Putin is spreading the disease.
Sun May 26, 2019, 06:55 PM
May 2019

Trump is just a carrier of the virus. The far right and ultra far right around the world are being infected, and every day citizens are coming under their spell. Skynet wasn't fully deployed in just a day.

at140

(6,110 posts)
22. Putin's economy is less than 1/10th size of Xi's economy
Sun May 26, 2019, 07:08 PM
May 2019

All I see in stores is products made by Xi's country (made in China).
I am still looking for something made in Russia.
May be I should try a Vodka store.

cstanleytech

(26,027 posts)
23. No, its always been there as for who's fanning the flames for it to help it the most my
Sun May 26, 2019, 07:37 PM
May 2019

money is more on Putin as he has alot riding on weakening any governments that he feels threatens him and his power.

at140

(6,110 posts)
25. How is Putin winning here in US?
Sun May 26, 2019, 07:50 PM
May 2019

U.S. jobless claims dip to 211,000, and they are now near half-century lows. We also saw U.S. consumer sentiment reach a 15-year high.

cstanleytech

(26,027 posts)
29. Well first off the weakened sanctions against Russia for one not to mention his weakening
Sun May 26, 2019, 08:45 PM
May 2019

NATO with Trump antagonizing and alienating our allies.

jmbar2

(4,805 posts)
36. Donald Trump is president...
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:02 PM
May 2019

...and all his major cabinet and white house picks are unqualified drifters hellbent on destroying our governing infrastructure. All thanks to Putin.

at140

(6,110 posts)
39. More Americans have jobs, Putin or no Putin
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:05 PM
May 2019

Only power Putin has is to employ workers posting on social media to create chaos here in elections. He has no economic power like China has.

jmbar2

(4,805 posts)
42. agreed Russia is weak economically...
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:16 PM
May 2019

...but his deep and methodical information warfare has been devastatingly effective worldwide. He wants to remake the world into an oligarch/mob paradise.

at140

(6,110 posts)
43. Best thing voters can do is..
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:23 PM
May 2019

to ignore social media propaganda, and do their own home work on issues. If they did that Putin would be powerless.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
51. There is no evidence for this.
Mon May 27, 2019, 08:07 AM
May 2019

Many political as well as commercial players now use targetted social media before, during and after election campaigning... As the Brexit Leave campaign showed, with assistance of US as well as UK origin, this can be illegal, corrupt and corrupting. Has any serious research shown what proportion of this might be of Russian or any other overt or covert State origin, internationally and particularly in Europe?

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
58. "devastatingly effective worldwide"
Mon May 27, 2019, 02:13 PM
May 2019

is not established in that report. Nor are links to the state.

Sparky 1

(400 posts)
60. There are more available jobs because Baby Boomers are retiring.
Mon May 27, 2019, 10:16 PM
May 2019

Nobody seems to be talking about that and the right is crediting Trump for those jobs, which is absurd.

xxqqqzme

(14,887 posts)
56. Those numbers say one thing
Mon May 27, 2019, 01:17 PM
May 2019

but fail to mention most employed people have no money to support a consumer economy.

at140

(6,110 posts)
59. #1 wealth creator in any country is...
Mon May 27, 2019, 02:27 PM
May 2019

#1 Manufacturing
#2 Mining includes liquids & natural gas
#3 Agriculture
#4 Creation of new useful products (example:Microsft Windows)

Every other activity consumes wealth. Doctors for example starve in poor countries. No need for accountants if there are no businesses to need accounting. No need for much retail if few have money to buy things.

Billions and Billions $$$ worth of manufacturing has been exported to cheap labor countries by Billionaires who own corporations and businesses. Result is we have lost millions of middle class jobs and #1 wealth creator.

IMHO that is the main reason why ordinary working middle class people are having a hard time.

 

Odoreida

(1,549 posts)
55. Trump is part of the disease, not the cause.
Mon May 27, 2019, 12:51 PM
May 2019

All of these far right Europeans were already in politics (with some success) before Trump.

mountain grammy

(26,553 posts)
7. This is depressing.. Fascism winning without a fight..
Sun May 26, 2019, 03:34 PM
May 2019

How did this happen? At 71, I'm looking at the downside, but I fear for the future. That said, the "green wave" looks a bit promising. The oligarchs might allow that to a point.

srobertss

(261 posts)
10. Why is this happening?
Sun May 26, 2019, 04:13 PM
May 2019

I find myself pointing at growing income inequality. But I also wonder if the climate crisis is part of this too. They say that Arab Spring and the Syrian civil war was driven by failing crops. The subsequent immigration to Europe has been a huge factor in this. But even India is going down this route. It’s very scary and difficult to encompass. Like Voldemort is winning.

erronis

(14,853 posts)
11. I think you are right about the climate crisis. The poor/disenfranchised will try to survive
Sun May 26, 2019, 04:19 PM
May 2019

and that threatens the rich/entitled. Class warfare directed through propaganda.

srobertss

(261 posts)
13. Hard to imagine the future
Sun May 26, 2019, 04:41 PM
May 2019

If people behave this badly at this point, what’s going to happen as the problems intensify? I have read that climate scientists are suffering from Pretraumatic Stress Disorder. I think we all will be experiencing that before too long.

Voltaire2

(12,511 posts)
14. Climate is only indirectly impacting
Sun May 26, 2019, 05:46 PM
May 2019

the developed democracies. The resurrection of fascism also cannot be explained by blaming Russia.

It is the decades of neoliberal austerity for the masses amidst the stunning rise of a new gilded elite, the inequality and corruption, that has fueled fascist populists on the right, and they are providing the only alternative to the status quo, as there is no populist left.

erronis

(14,853 posts)
17. No disagreement here. Greed doesn't need excuses. It is baked into some people.
Sun May 26, 2019, 05:56 PM
May 2019

And I think that labels such as populism, liberalism, socialism and others can be easily manipulated to mean exactly the opposite of their original intent.

srobertss

(261 posts)
18. Virtually stateless billionaires
Sun May 26, 2019, 06:25 PM
May 2019

It seems like they study each other to figure out how to structure society to get more riches to get to the head of the pack. They seem disconnected from community and reality. I keep remembering the clip of the Dutch historian at Davos who asked why tax avoidance was a forbidden topic at the conference. I also remember another clip from Davos where the head of Dell laughingly scoffed at high marginal tax rates. He asked where in history that ever worked and the Washington Post economic reporter agreed and said, “Maybe briefly in the 80’s in the US.” That just dropped my jaw. I think there was someone from MIT who mentioned the period of the great compression in the US with 90% marginal tax rates, but he did so by saying he wasn’t advocating for it. They’re literally killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

And a lot of them are preparing escape bunkers to escape from social collapse, I’m guessing partly in response to the climate crisis. Climate change is pressuring the global north with the stresses from the global south and we will be seeing more of that, along with income inequality.

at140

(6,110 posts)
44. Agreed! Economic disparity is the real problem
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:27 PM
May 2019

facing this country. And it is caused by greedy Billionaires and international corporations, not necessarily Putin. American corporations only care about the bottom line. If you get hurt working there, they won't even send flowers to your funeral.

srobertss

(261 posts)
33. Thank you
Sun May 26, 2019, 09:48 PM
May 2019

That’s a good resource. I didn’t watch yet, but I googled and read about his point of view. He seems optimistic. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Maybe we’ll start to see some waking up in the world.

former9thward

(31,684 posts)
47. Syria and Israel are next to one another.
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:22 PM
May 2019

The have the same climate. How can someone blame the climate on falling crops in Syria when crops in Israel are doing just fine. Syria is failing because it is a dictatorship like the other Arab states. Put the blame where it belongs.

NickB79

(19,063 posts)
48. Israel has some of the most high-tech farming methods in the world
Sun May 26, 2019, 11:40 PM
May 2019

Drip irrigation, massive greenhouses, plastic tarping of fields. Massive desalination plants on the coastline and irrigation wells tapped deep. Syria had almost none of that.

They've also secured water rights in the region, both through diplomacy and force. Their preparations paid off when the droughts hit.

former9thward

(31,684 posts)
53. I know what Israel has.
Mon May 27, 2019, 10:46 AM
May 2019

Nothing has stopped Syria and the other Arab nations that surround Israel from doing the same thing. Nothing except corrupt dictatorships.

IdealsAndReal42

(89 posts)
61. The Le Pen vote
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 09:23 AM
Aug 2019

Can also be explained by cultural sense of insecurity fueled by a more diverse population in Europe.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,480 posts)
15. Plutocrats fund these campaigns to create social division, thereby no public cohesion.
Sun May 26, 2019, 05:48 PM
May 2019

Divide and conquer using xenophobia, economic inequality, religious dogma, nationalism and anything else they can using lies to create fear and prevent liberal democratic groups from rising to power.

No better current examples I can think of than UK's Brexit and Bolsonaro in Brazil........

 

Nuggets

(525 posts)
16. Bannon is around helping the right wing
Sun May 26, 2019, 05:51 PM
May 2019

in Europe.

The right wing oligarchs around the world are involved.

Initech

(99,881 posts)
19. The US right wing helped flip Brazil and now they're going after France.
Sun May 26, 2019, 06:47 PM
May 2019

It's going to get ugly.

The Liberal Lion

(1,414 posts)
30. In reading the article
Sun May 26, 2019, 08:46 PM
May 2019

I would actually call what happened a win for normality. Macron, while somewhat popular here in the States and as well photogenic, is nevertheless a right wing, free-markets conservative. True conservative, not this bullshit acting like conservative these days in America. Given that we here are liberals and progressives Macron loss to Le Pen means less to us than the gains by the Greens in particular. The liberals, more a fiscal conservative party like Republicans of old at least claimed to be, are as well no friends of the nationalist. When read in it's entirety I think the results of the EU election give little reason for concern of the fate of EU liberal democratic institutions. I would say the elections show that while nationalism continues to gain small footholds, traditional, post WWII Europe still rules the day and should actually be a more formidable obstacle for the further spread of putin influenced nationalism.
Sadly, however, it seems Britain is lost. That's at least what I got.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
52. This is accurate, thanks.
Mon May 27, 2019, 08:18 AM
May 2019

I would only add that the EU liberal democratic institutions will have to take the EU Left and Green Left as well as pro-EU regional interests more into account in the immediate future.

Response to erronis (Original post)

paleotn

(17,759 posts)
35. However....
Sun May 26, 2019, 09:59 PM
May 2019

pro-EU parties overall held their ground. The nuts made some modest gains, but still only hold a quarter of the seats. The soft middle lost out primarily to more liberal parties.

And...Marie Le Pen is a Nazi is every sense of the word.

Good synopsis at Financial Times, but behind a pay wall....

https://www.ft.com/content/9733a232-7fe1-11e9-b592-5fe435b57a3b

NY Times take...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/world/europe/european-elections-results.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage


Me.

(35,454 posts)
37. More
Sun May 26, 2019, 10:03 PM
May 2019

“France’s Emmanuel Macron, who has staked his presidency on persuading Europeans that the EU is the answer to the challenges of an uncertain, globalising world economy, took a personal hit when his centrist movement was edged into second place by Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration, anti-Brussels National Rally.

But Macron’s Renaissance, built on the ruins of centre-left and centre-right parties, added to gains for liberals at the EU level as turnout bounced sharply across the bloc. Along with a surge for the Greens, that meant four groups occupying the pro-EU middle ground lost under 20 seats, securing 505 seats out of 751, according to a projection by the European Parliament.

That may complicate some policymaking, as a two-party “grand coalition” of the conservative European People’s Party (EPP) and the Socialists (S&D) no longer has a majority. The liberals, with over 100 seats and Greens, with nearly 70, want a big say.

But it also dents the hopes of Le Pen, Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini and others who have been seeking to disrupt attempts to forge closer EU integration. Salvini called the elections a mandate for a shake-up in Brussels.”

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