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Sun May 26, 2019, 02:46 PM

Le Pen beats Macron in France as nationalists gain in EU vote

Source: Reuters

Marine Le Pen’s far-right party edged just ahead of the centrist alliance of President Emmanuel Macron in exit polls as French voters led what pollsters expected to be a nationalist surge in an EU parliament election on Sunday.

The defeat for the president was narrow amid a sharply increased turnout that was matched across the continent in what Brussels is portraying as a positive sign, in spite of gains for anti-EU groups.

But it was a bitter blow for those who hope the French leader can inspire Europeans to embrace the Union as an answer rather than as part of the problem in the face of social change that has bewildered and frustrated some voters.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election/le-pen-beats-macron-in-france-as-nationalists-gain-in-eu-vote-idUSKCN1SV0QQ?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews



The center and left of Europe (and the US) are being undermined by a concerted effort. From whom? Not just the Putin/USSR group but probably oligarchs around the world.

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Reply Le Pen beats Macron in France as nationalists gain in EU vote (Original post)
erronis May 26 OP
democratisphere May 26 #1
at140 May 26 #2
bluestarone May 26 #3
emmaverybo May 26 #12
sop May 26 #28
Initech May 26 #21
at140 May 26 #22
cstanleytech May 26 #23
at140 May 26 #25
cstanleytech May 26 #29
jmbar2 May 26 #36
at140 May 26 #39
jmbar2 May 26 #42
at140 May 26 #43
Ghost Dog May 27 #51
jmbar2 May 27 #57
Ghost Dog May 27 #58
Sparky 1 May 27 #60
xxqqqzme May 27 #56
at140 May 27 #59
Politicub May 27 #54
Odoreida May 27 #55
badhair77 May 26 #4
Turbineguy May 26 #5
still_one May 26 #6
mountain grammy May 26 #7
MarcA May 26 #8
ananda May 26 #9
Haggis for Breakfast May 26 #46
ananda May 27 #50
srobertss May 26 #10
erronis May 26 #11
srobertss May 26 #13
Voltaire2 May 26 #14
erronis May 26 #17
srobertss May 26 #18
rockfordfile May 26 #34
at140 May 26 #44
Hassin Bin Sober May 26 #31
srobertss May 26 #33
jmbar2 May 26 #41
former9thward May 26 #47
NickB79 May 26 #48
former9thward May 27 #53
JI7 May 27 #49
KY_EnviroGuy May 26 #15
Kurt V. May 26 #27
Nuggets May 26 #16
Initech May 26 #19
turbinetree May 26 #20
Lulu KC May 26 #24
Kurt V. May 26 #26
The Liberal Lion May 26 #30
rockfordfile May 26 #40
Ghost Dog May 27 #52
bamagal62 May 26 #32
paleotn May 26 #35
Me. May 26 #38
Me. May 26 #37
burrowowl May 26 #45

Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 02:48 PM

1. Not good.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 02:50 PM

2. Trump is spreading this contagious disease

Italy, Australia, Hungary and some others have already been infected.

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Sun May 26, 2019, 02:56 PM

3. putin

He's the bastard!

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #3)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:30 PM

12. Putin's master plan for Europe.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #3)

Sun May 26, 2019, 08:20 PM

28. Putin uses the very freedoms and openness afforded under democratic systems

to destroy these democracies from within.

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Sun May 26, 2019, 06:55 PM

21. Actually Putin is spreading the disease.

Trump is just a carrier of the virus. The far right and ultra far right around the world are being infected, and every day citizens are coming under their spell. Skynet wasn't fully deployed in just a day.

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Response to Initech (Reply #21)

Sun May 26, 2019, 07:08 PM

22. Putin's economy is less than 1/10th size of Xi's economy

All I see in stores is products made by Xi's country (made in China).
I am still looking for something made in Russia.
May be I should try a Vodka store.

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Sun May 26, 2019, 07:37 PM

23. No, its always been there as for who's fanning the flames for it to help it the most my

money is more on Putin as he has alot riding on weakening any governments that he feels threatens him and his power.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #23)

Sun May 26, 2019, 07:50 PM

25. How is Putin winning here in US?

U.S. jobless claims dip to 211,000, and they are now near half-century lows. We also saw U.S. consumer sentiment reach a 15-year high.

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Response to at140 (Reply #25)

Sun May 26, 2019, 08:45 PM

29. Well first off the weakened sanctions against Russia for one not to mention his weakening

NATO with Trump antagonizing and alienating our allies.

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Response to at140 (Reply #25)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:02 PM

36. Donald Trump is president...

...and all his major cabinet and white house picks are unqualified drifters hellbent on destroying our governing infrastructure. All thanks to Putin.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #36)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:05 PM

39. More Americans have jobs, Putin or no Putin

Only power Putin has is to employ workers posting on social media to create chaos here in elections. He has no economic power like China has.

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Response to at140 (Reply #39)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:16 PM

42. agreed Russia is weak economically...

...but his deep and methodical information warfare has been devastatingly effective worldwide. He wants to remake the world into an oligarch/mob paradise.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #42)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:23 PM

43. Best thing voters can do is..

to ignore social media propaganda, and do their own home work on issues. If they did that Putin would be powerless.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #42)

Mon May 27, 2019, 08:07 AM

51. There is no evidence for this.

Many political as well as commercial players now use targetted social media before, during and after election campaigning... As the Brexit Leave campaign showed, with assistance of US as well as UK origin, this can be illegal, corrupt and corrupting. Has any serious research shown what proportion of this might be of Russian or any other overt or covert State origin, internationally and particularly in Europe?

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #51)

Mon May 27, 2019, 01:19 PM

57. See Mueller Report

Wikipedia has a good summary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_Report

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #57)

Mon May 27, 2019, 02:13 PM

58. "devastatingly effective worldwide"

is not established in that report. Nor are links to the state.

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Response to at140 (Reply #39)

Mon May 27, 2019, 10:16 PM

60. There are more available jobs because Baby Boomers are retiring.

Nobody seems to be talking about that and the right is crediting Trump for those jobs, which is absurd.

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Response to at140 (Reply #25)

Mon May 27, 2019, 01:17 PM

56. Those numbers say one thing

but fail to mention most employed people have no money to support a consumer economy.

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Response to xxqqqzme (Reply #56)

Mon May 27, 2019, 02:27 PM

59. #1 wealth creator in any country is...

#1 Manufacturing
#2 Mining includes liquids & natural gas
#3 Agriculture
#4 Creation of new useful products (example:Microsft Windows)

Every other activity consumes wealth. Doctors for example starve in poor countries. No need for accountants if there are no businesses to need accounting. No need for much retail if few have money to buy things.

Billions and Billions $$$ worth of manufacturing has been exported to cheap labor countries by Billionaires who own corporations and businesses. Result is we have lost millions of middle class jobs and #1 wealth creator.

IMHO that is the main reason why ordinary working middle class people are having a hard time.

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Mon May 27, 2019, 11:31 AM

54. We will spread the antidote soon

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Mon May 27, 2019, 12:51 PM

55. Trump is part of the disease, not the cause.

All of these far right Europeans were already in politics (with some success) before Trump.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 03:03 PM

4. Steve Brannon is everywhere. He wants to blow up the world.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 03:08 PM

5. The Russians are good at this.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 03:27 PM

6. Vichy France Redux. How pathetic

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 03:34 PM

7. This is depressing.. Fascism winning without a fight..

How did this happen? At 71, I'm looking at the downside, but I fear for the future. That said, the "green wave" looks a bit promising. The oligarchs might allow that to a point.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:02 PM

8. Oligarchs leading willfully ignorant rubes to slavery

and some don't even care.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:05 PM

9. This is VERY bad news !!!

Sigh

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Response to ananda (Reply #9)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:57 PM

46. Marine le Pen is a cancer upon France.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #46)

Mon May 27, 2019, 07:36 AM

50. And MF45 is definitely a chancre on the butt of America...

... nay the world.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:13 PM

10. Why is this happening?

I find myself pointing at growing income inequality. But I also wonder if the climate crisis is part of this too. They say that Arab Spring and the Syrian civil war was driven by failing crops. The subsequent immigration to Europe has been a huge factor in this. But even India is going down this route. It’s very scary and difficult to encompass. Like Voldemort is winning.

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Response to srobertss (Reply #10)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:19 PM

11. I think you are right about the climate crisis. The poor/disenfranchised will try to survive

and that threatens the rich/entitled. Class warfare directed through propaganda.

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Response to erronis (Reply #11)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:41 PM

13. Hard to imagine the future

If people behave this badly at this point, what’s going to happen as the problems intensify? I have read that climate scientists are suffering from Pretraumatic Stress Disorder. I think we all will be experiencing that before too long.

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Response to srobertss (Reply #10)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:46 PM

14. Climate is only indirectly impacting

the developed democracies. The resurrection of fascism also cannot be explained by blaming Russia.

It is the decades of neoliberal austerity for the masses amidst the stunning rise of a new gilded elite, the inequality and corruption, that has fueled fascist populists on the right, and they are providing the only alternative to the status quo, as there is no populist left.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:56 PM

17. No disagreement here. Greed doesn't need excuses. It is baked into some people.

And I think that labels such as populism, liberalism, socialism and others can be easily manipulated to mean exactly the opposite of their original intent.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Sun May 26, 2019, 06:25 PM

18. Virtually stateless billionaires

It seems like they study each other to figure out how to structure society to get more riches to get to the head of the pack. They seem disconnected from community and reality. I keep remembering the clip of the Dutch historian at Davos who asked why tax avoidance was a forbidden topic at the conference. I also remember another clip from Davos where the head of Dell laughingly scoffed at high marginal tax rates. He asked where in history that ever worked and the Washington Post economic reporter agreed and said, “Maybe briefly in the 80’s in the US.” That just dropped my jaw. I think there was someone from MIT who mentioned the period of the great compression in the US with 90% marginal tax rates, but he did so by saying he wasn’t advocating for it. They’re literally killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

And a lot of them are preparing escape bunkers to escape from social collapse, I’m guessing partly in response to the climate crisis. Climate change is pressuring the global north with the stresses from the global south and we will be seeing more of that, along with income inequality.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Sun May 26, 2019, 09:57 PM

34. The right-wing fascists are responsible for the corruption and lies. It's Hitler and Stalin again.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:27 PM

44. Agreed! Economic disparity is the real problem

facing this country. And it is caused by greedy Billionaires and international corporations, not necessarily Putin. American corporations only care about the bottom line. If you get hurt working there, they won't even send flowers to your funeral.

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Response to srobertss (Reply #10)

Sun May 26, 2019, 09:02 PM

31. Global Trumpism

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #31)

Sun May 26, 2019, 09:48 PM

33. Thank you

That’s a good resource. I didn’t watch yet, but I googled and read about his point of view. He seems optimistic. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Maybe we’ll start to see some waking up in the world.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #31)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:12 PM

41. Great resource

I hadn't heard of him before. His twitter feed is fascinating.

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Response to srobertss (Reply #10)

Sun May 26, 2019, 11:22 PM

47. Syria and Israel are next to one another.

The have the same climate. How can someone blame the climate on falling crops in Syria when crops in Israel are doing just fine. Syria is failing because it is a dictatorship like the other Arab states. Put the blame where it belongs.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #47)

Sun May 26, 2019, 11:40 PM

48. Israel has some of the most high-tech farming methods in the world

Drip irrigation, massive greenhouses, plastic tarping of fields. Massive desalination plants on the coastline and irrigation wells tapped deep. Syria had almost none of that.

They've also secured water rights in the region, both through diplomacy and force. Their preparations paid off when the droughts hit.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #48)

Mon May 27, 2019, 10:46 AM

53. I know what Israel has.

Nothing has stopped Syria and the other Arab nations that surround Israel from doing the same thing. Nothing except corrupt dictatorships.

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Response to srobertss (Reply #10)

Mon May 27, 2019, 12:42 AM

49. increase in Muslim population

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:48 PM

15. Plutocrats fund these campaigns to create social division, thereby no public cohesion.

Divide and conquer using xenophobia, economic inequality, religious dogma, nationalism and anything else they can using lies to create fear and prevent liberal democratic groups from rising to power.

No better current examples I can think of than UK's Brexit and Bolsonaro in Brazil........

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #15)

Sun May 26, 2019, 08:15 PM

27. +1

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:51 PM

16. Bannon is around helping the right wing

in Europe.

The right wing oligarchs around the world are involved.

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Response to Nuggets (Reply #16)

Sun May 26, 2019, 06:47 PM

19. The US right wing helped flip Brazil and now they're going after France.

It's going to get ugly.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 06:52 PM

20. Putin and criminal oligarchs......................

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 07:40 PM

24. Groaning

Yellow vests. Too familiar.

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 08:14 PM

26. this is not accurate. the right gained some. the left gained some. the neoliberal macronn lost some

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 08:46 PM

30. In reading the article

I would actually call what happened a win for normality. Macron, while somewhat popular here in the States and as well photogenic, is nevertheless a right wing, free-markets conservative. True conservative, not this bullshit acting like conservative these days in America. Given that we here are liberals and progressives Macron loss to Le Pen means less to us than the gains by the Greens in particular. The liberals, more a fiscal conservative party like Republicans of old at least claimed to be, are as well no friends of the nationalist. When read in it's entirety I think the results of the EU election give little reason for concern of the fate of EU liberal democratic institutions. I would say the elections show that while nationalism continues to gain small footholds, traditional, post WWII Europe still rules the day and should actually be a more formidable obstacle for the further spread of putin influenced nationalism.
Sadly, however, it seems Britain is lost. That's at least what I got.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #30)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:10 PM

40. I don't think so. Fascism/Nazism is a big problem again.

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Response to The Liberal Lion (Reply #30)

Mon May 27, 2019, 08:18 AM

52. This is accurate, thanks.

I would only add that the EU liberal democratic institutions will have to take the EU Left and Green Left as well as pro-EU regional interests more into account in the immediate future.

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Response to erronis (Original post)


Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 09:59 PM

35. However....

pro-EU parties overall held their ground. The nuts made some modest gains, but still only hold a quarter of the seats. The soft middle lost out primarily to more liberal parties.

And...Marie Le Pen is a Nazi is every sense of the word.

Good synopsis at Financial Times, but behind a pay wall....

https://www.ft.com/content/9733a232-7fe1-11e9-b592-5fe435b57a3b

NY Times take...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/world/europe/european-elections-results.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage


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Response to paleotn (Reply #35)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:04 PM

38. That's Right

and Le Pen's hopes are dashed

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Response to erronis (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 10:03 PM

37. More

“France’s Emmanuel Macron, who has staked his presidency on persuading Europeans that the EU is the answer to the challenges of an uncertain, globalising world economy, took a personal hit when his centrist movement was edged into second place by Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration, anti-Brussels National Rally.

But Macron’s Renaissance, built on the ruins of centre-left and centre-right parties, added to gains for liberals at the EU level as turnout bounced sharply across the bloc. Along with a surge for the Greens, that meant four groups occupying the pro-EU middle ground lost under 20 seats, securing 505 seats out of 751, according to a projection by the European Parliament.

That may complicate some policymaking, as a two-party “grand coalition” of the conservative European People’s Party (EPP) and the Socialists (S&D) no longer has a majority. The liberals, with over 100 seats and Greens, with nearly 70, want a big say.

But it also dents the hopes of Le Pen, Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini and others who have been seeking to disrupt attempts to forge closer EU integration. Salvini called the elections a mandate for a shake-up in Brussels.”

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