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Thu Mar 14, 2019, 09:18 AM

Arkansas, Utah lawmakers pass 18-week abortion bans

Source: CBS News/The AP



MARCH 14, 2019 / 7:43 AM / AP

Lawmakers in Arkansas and Utah sent their governors legislation Wednesday banning most abortions 18 weeks into a woman's pregnancy, moving the states closer to enacting bans that could be among the strictest in the country.

The Arkansas House gave final approval by an 86-1 vote to the bill there, which Republican Gov. Asa Hutchinson has said he supports. Arkansas already bans abortion 20 weeks into a woman's pregnancy. Hutchinson told reporters he believed the restriction would likely survive a court challenge.

"It's within the second trimester that states are allowed to pass restrictions on, and this, with the science we have today it seems like a very appropriate restriction," Hutchinson said shortly before the measure passed the House.

The House had approved an earlier version of the bill and on Wednesday backed an amendment adding exceptions for rape and incest. The measure already included an exception for medical emergencies.

Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arkansas-utah-lawmakers-pass-18-week-abortion-bans/

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Arrow 7 replies Author Time Post
Reply Arkansas, Utah lawmakers pass 18-week abortion bans (Original post)
DonViejo Mar 14 OP
BumRushDaShow Mar 14 #1
Honeycombe8 Mar 14 #2
moriah Mar 14 #4
Hortensis Mar 14 #6
moose65 Mar 14 #3
Honeycombe8 Mar 14 #5
moriah Mar 14 #7

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 09:56 AM

1. This is how they chip away at a woman's right to control her own body

They are basically nothing more than traffickers.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 10:00 AM

2. Utah's version has exceptions...

Utah's version has exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother, and fatal fetal defects. Although I'm strongly pro-choice, I'm okay with Utah's version. Medicine has progressed so far in recent years that a fetus can actually survive when prematurely born at several months. Part of Roe v Wade's decision, as I recall, was that the breaking point of when a fetus becomes a human being, that is, when it can survive outside the womb (fetal viability), even with artificial assistance. At that time years ago, that point was 6 months. It's shorter, now.

I think this will be challenged in court, so we'll see if it stands. I'd prefer this to be decided by non-partisan judges. I think the Arkansas version will have to include exceptions to protect the mother's life and health, and Utah's version will have to include protections for the mother's health (not just her life).

Planned Parenthood v. Casey, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_v._Casey

Although upholding the "essential holding" in Roe, and recognizing that women have some constitutional liberty to terminate their pregnancies, the O'Connor–Kennedy–Souter plurality overturned the Roe trimester framework in favor of a viability analysis. The Roe trimester framework completely forbade states from regulating abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy, permitted regulations designed to protect a woman's health in the second trimester, and permitted prohibitions on abortion during the third trimester (when the fetus becomes viable) under the justification of fetal protection, and so long as the life or health of the mother was not at risk.[17] The plurality found that continuing advancements in medical technology had proven that a fetus could be considered viable at 23 or 24 weeks rather than at the 28 weeks previously understood by the Court in Roe.[12] The plurality thus redrew the line of increasing state interest at viability because of increasing medical accuracy about when fetus viability takes place. Likewise, the authors of the plurality opinion felt that fetus viability was "more workable" than the trimester framework.[18]

Under this new fetus viability framework, the plurality held that at the point of viability and subsequent to viability, the state could promote its interest in the "potentiality of human life" by regulating, or possibly proscribing, abortion "except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother."[19] Prior to fetus viability, the plurality held, the State can show concern for fetal development, but it cannot pose an undue burden on a woman's fundamental right to abortion.[20] The plurality reasoned that the new pre- and post-viability line would still uphold the essential holding of Roe, which recognized both the woman's constitutionally protected liberty, and the State's "important and legitimate interest in potential life."[21]

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:36 PM

4. I need to read the version of the law my state passed real quick.

Because they may have been making it the same as our previous 20-week ban, just claiming it was "18 weeks post conception" vs "20 weeks vs LMP".

The right love to lower the week numbers and add all sorts of restrictions, so it looks like they're "making progress" without necessarily adding any real protections for anyone -- mother or fetus.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:54 PM

6. Agree.

At some point as gestation advances, there are two people to consider, and fetal medicine advances mean the age of viability, Which our current abortion law is tied to, is only going to get lower.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:09 PM

3. Here's my question

As an ignorant man, what I always wonder is, is it possible to pinpoint the length of the pregnancy that accurately? When does a pregnancy become a pregnancy? Can it be nailed down to an exact number of weeks? How are these laws worded, anyway? What if someone was 17 weeks and 5 days along? I just don't see how they can be measured so accurately!

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Response to moose65 (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:52 PM

5. In the beginning, the age is overestimated.

In the beg. the age is overestimated. The doctor knows that the last time you had your period you weren't pg. So he estimates from that time as the age, in the very beginning.

Later on, there are ultrasounds and such, so doctors can pinpoint the age w/more accuracy, giving an est. date of birth.

So if anything, the age of the fetus is probably usually overestimated by a couple of weeks in the beginning. As time progresses, the doctor can get even closer to the exact age.

(I'm speaking of normal fetuses and healthy patients.)

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 01:18 PM

7. Oh, yay, just actually read the bloody law.

Guess what they don't consider "rape" for this abortion law:

1) Statutory rape unless the victim is 13 years old or younger
2) Who voluntarily gets drunk, unless they are totally unconscious

So yeah, if your 14 year old gets knocked up by a 25 year old.. apparently, according to this law, they're perfectly ready to bear a child and shouldn't feel "raped", even though the "father" will still be sent to jail.

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