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Sun Mar 10, 2019, 03:02 PM

Venezuela's Guaido calls for massive protest as blackout drags on

Source: Reuters

CARACAS, March 9 (Reuters) - Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido on Saturday called on citizens nationwide to travel to the capital Caracas for a protest against socialist President Nicolas Maduro, as the country's worst blackout in decades dragged on for a third day.

Addressing supporters in southwestern Caracas, Guaido - the leader of the opposition-run congress who invoked the constitution to assume an interim presidency in January - said Maduro's government "has no way to solve the electricity crisis that they themselves created."
"All of Venezuela, to Caracas!" Guaido yelled while standing atop a bridge, without saying when the planned protest would be held. "The days ahead will be difficult, thanks to the regime."

Activists had scuffled with police and troops ahead of the rally, meant to pressure Maduro amid the blackout, which the governing Socialist Party called an act of U.S.-sponsored sabotage but opposition critics derided as the result of two decades of mismanagement and corruption.

Dozens of demonstrators attempted to walk along an avenue in Caracas but were moved onto the sidewalk by police in riot gear, leading them to shout at the officers and push on their riot shields. One woman was sprayed with pepper spray, according to a local broadcaster.

Read more: http://news.trust.org/item/20190309205620-dfuso



The "Revolution" continues its downward slide that everyone years ago knew would happen

175 replies, 3489 views

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Reply Venezuela's Guaido calls for massive protest as blackout drags on (Original post)
oldsoftie Mar 10 OP
Farmer-Rick Mar 10 #1
oldsoftie Mar 10 #2
quakerboy Mar 10 #3
oldsoftie Mar 11 #11
hack89 Mar 11 #12
quakerboy Tuesday #58
hack89 Tuesday #71
quakerboy Thursday #148
hack89 Thursday #153
GatoGordo Thursday #158
GatoGordo Mar 11 #15
quakerboy Tuesday #59
Calista241 Mar 10 #4
christx30 Mar 11 #57
ripcord Mar 10 #5
ronnie624 Mar 11 #6
Judi Lynn Mar 11 #7
ronnie624 Mar 11 #8
Judi Lynn Tuesday #65
ronnie624 Tuesday #67
oldsoftie Mar 11 #10
GatoGordo Mar 11 #16
ronnie624 Mar 11 #20
GatoGordo Mar 11 #22
Judi Lynn Tuesday #63
ronnie624 Tuesday #64
Judi Lynn Tuesday #66
Ghost Dog Tuesday #68
Judi Lynn Tuesday #69
GatoGordo Thursday #147
Judi Lynn Wednesday #123
ronnie624 Wednesday #125
Judi Lynn Wednesday #127
GatoGordo Thursday #149
PupCamo Mar 11 #48
GatoGordo Mar 11 #50
PupCamo Mar 11 #54
irresistable Mar 11 #27
GatoGordo Mar 11 #28
irresistable Mar 11 #29
GatoGordo Mar 11 #32
irresistable Mar 11 #33
GatoGordo Mar 11 #35
JonLP24 Tuesday #70
Turbineguy Mar 11 #31
GatoGordo Mar 11 #34
Miguel M Mar 11 #52
GatoGordo Mar 11 #53
Judi Lynn Wednesday #124
oldsoftie Wednesday #135
Judi Lynn Wednesday #139
oldsoftie Wednesday #142
Judi Lynn Wednesday #143
GatoGordo Thursday #145
oldsoftie Thursday #156
oldsoftie Mar 11 #9
ronnie624 Mar 11 #13
oldsoftie Mar 11 #14
ronnie624 Mar 11 #18
oldsoftie Mar 11 #41
Miguel M Tuesday #94
oldsoftie Wednesday #107
Miguel M Wednesday #110
oldsoftie Wednesday #112
PupCamo Mar 11 #49
quakerboy Tuesday #60
oldsoftie Tuesday #82
quakerboy Thursday #150
oldsoftie Thursday #155
GatoGordo Mar 11 #17
ronnie624 Mar 11 #19
GatoGordo Mar 11 #21
ronnie624 Mar 11 #23
GatoGordo Mar 11 #24
ronnie624 Mar 11 #25
COLGATE4 Mar 11 #26
oldsoftie Mar 11 #42
GatoGordo Mar 11 #51
juxtaposed Tuesday #81
Turbineguy Mar 11 #30
GatoGordo Mar 11 #36
Turbineguy Mar 11 #39
Oneironaut Mar 11 #37
GatoGordo Mar 11 #40
oldsoftie Mar 11 #43
ronnie624 Mar 11 #55
EX500rider Mar 11 #56
quakerboy Tuesday #61
EX500rider Tuesday #87
quakerboy Thursday #152
ronnie624 Tuesday #62
oldsoftie Tuesday #72
ronnie624 Tuesday #73
oldsoftie Tuesday #75
ronnie624 Tuesday #95
EX500rider Tuesday #96
ronnie624 Wednesday #99
EX500rider Wednesday #104
GatoGordo Wednesday #105
ronnie624 Wednesday #106
EX500rider Wednesday #117
oldsoftie Wednesday #109
EX500rider Tuesday #88
oldsoftie Wednesday #108
solidLxxi Mar 11 #38
oldsoftie Mar 11 #44
EX500rider Mar 11 #45
GatoGordo Mar 11 #47
solidLxxi Tuesday #76
oldsoftie Tuesday #78
solidLxxi Tuesday #85
oldsoftie Wednesday #111
solidLxxi 18 hrs ago #172
oldsoftie 15 hrs ago #173
EX500rider Tuesday #86
solidLxxi Friday #164
EX500rider Friday #167
solidLxxi 18 hrs ago #171
EX500rider 14 hrs ago #175
EX500rider Tuesday #91
EX500rider Thursday #161
solidLxxi Friday #163
EX500rider Friday #166
GatoGordo Mar 11 #46
solidLxxi Tuesday #74
oldsoftie Tuesday #77
EX500rider Tuesday #90
GatoGordo Tuesday #97
solidLxxi Friday #165
EX500rider Friday #168
solidLxxi 18 hrs ago #170
EX500rider 14 hrs ago #174
juxtaposed Tuesday #79
oldsoftie Tuesday #80
EX500rider Tuesday #92
Name removed Tuesday #83
Huffleprecious Tuesday #84
EX500rider Friday #169
ansible Tuesday #89
EX500rider Tuesday #93
ronnie624 Wednesday #100
EX500rider Wednesday #102
oldsoftie Wednesday #113
ronnie624 Wednesday #115
oldsoftie Wednesday #116
ronnie624 Wednesday #119
oldsoftie Wednesday #122
ronnie624 Wednesday #126
Judi Lynn Wednesday #128
oldsoftie Wednesday #132
oldsoftie Wednesday #134
EX500rider Wednesday #118
ronnie624 Wednesday #121
EX500rider Wednesday #129
ronnie624 Wednesday #130
EX500rider Wednesday #131
ronnie624 Wednesday #133
EX500rider Wednesday #136
ronnie624 Wednesday #137
EX500rider Wednesday #140
ronnie624 Wednesday #144
oldsoftie Thursday #157
EX500rider Thursday #160
GatoGordo Tuesday #98
Ghost Dog Wednesday #101
GatoGordo Wednesday #103
oldsoftie Wednesday #141
Adrahil Wednesday #114
ripcord Wednesday #120
oldsoftie Wednesday #138
GatoGordo Thursday #146
ronnie624 Thursday #151
GatoGordo Thursday #154
Adrahil Thursday #159
ripcord Thursday #162

Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 03:10 PM

1. Yeah, especially when the US funds that downward slide

They didn't have a chance in hell after Chavez made fun of W.

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Response to Farmer-Rick (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 03:42 PM

2. They didnt have a chance in hell when they stole private property & stopped paying bills.

Thats how failure happens.
Another "blame the US" default.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 09:03 PM

3. That would be the company line, yes

Its interesting how one oil rich nation is doing quite well off their oil proceeds, and another is somehow unable to buy food despite their oil output. It's almost like access to resources, labor, or anything else doesnt really matter if you dont kiss the proper rear ends and make sure the right palms are well greased.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 07:06 AM

11. No one will do business with you when you refuse to pay your bills.

And seize anything inside the country. Thats what makes you look like North Korea

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 09:55 AM

12. There is no comparison with the two economies

The US is a huge diversified economy that also produces a huge food surplus. Venezuela is a small, non-diverse economy that put all their eggs in one basket (oil) and got absolutely hammered when oil prices plummeted. Toss in steady declining oil production due to mismanagement and you have the present situation where they don't have enough revenue to buy what they need.

Venezula's basic problem is that they export nearly everything, including food, which requires US dollars. Their economy went into a death spiral about 10 years ago when the remaining domestic industries started shutting down as they could not import needed parts and materials. That spiral is reaching it's final stages now. This is not a new thing - it has been going on since before Chavez died.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 12:23 AM

58. You mistake me

I was comparing Venezuela and Saudi Arabia.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #58)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 06:42 AM

71. Saudi Arabia is a well run country

They don’t let ideology distort the management of the economy. The are pragmatic and ensure that sufficient oil revenue is reinvested to maintain and grow their oil infrastructure. Venezuela on the other hand wasted billions on Chavez’s dream of a socialist sphere of influence in Central America while handing over the oil industry to his cronies. Toss in casual stealing of foreign oil companies assets and you end up with a decaying infrastructure, steadily declining oil production, and no foreign capital and expertise to fix it.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:51 AM

148. Yes, that would be the company line. Thanks for the recitation.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #148)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 06:52 AM

153. It is actually the truth

But feel free to actually rebut my points if you can

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #58)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 08:20 AM

158. There is no comparing Venezuela and Saudi

 

Up until 1999, you could compare them economically.

At one time, Venezuela was "richer" than China, and pumped out more oil than Saudi.

But along came Bolivarian Socialism, and changed all that. What used to be the economic envy of Latin America became a cesspool of cronyism, incompetence and Marxist ideology.

Say what you want about Saudi and its vile "House of Saud" and religious intolerance. It is true! But other than the nomadic Bedu sleeping in tents, everyone has reliable electricity and RUNNING WATER in a nation with NO WATER. Chavismo can't seem to pull off refining and pumping their own oil in a nation sitting on top of the earths largest proven reserves. As the old saying goes, "Put them in charge of the Sahara desert, and within a month there would be a shortage of sand".

Another win for Marx

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:12 AM

15. The company line?

 

The Bolivarian Revolution under Chavez (now Maduro) has single-handedly bankrupted the nation.

Chavez elected, sworn in 2 February, 1999

PdVSA used to pump out 3 million barrels of oil per day in 1999. Now? Less than a million (least in 70 years)
The Bolivar (Venezuelan currency) has been devalued twice, cutting off 8 zeros. 99.99999989% less value than in 1999.
Last year inflation: 1.7 million percent. Since August 20 to present? 2 million percent. 10 million percent forcast for 2019.
Current minimum wage: 16 cents per day.

I'm no economist, but no other country (short of Zimbabwe, Hungary, Germany post WW1) could pull off that economic feat.

But I can assure you that palms are being greased in Venezuela. Just not the ones you think.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 12:25 AM

59. I am certain many palms are greased

All around. By all sorts of people. On every side.

The one certainty in all of this is that the people will suffer the consequences. No matter which faction comes out on top, the people of Venezuala won't. I'd bet money on that.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 09:39 PM

4. They probably could have gotten away with stealing private citizens property.

But if you steal a company’s property, the chances of them investing anything more is slim to none. All of their problems stem from Chavez and Madura stealing from the people / companies they needed to keep their economy going.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 10:07 PM

57. Yeah, because companies

can take their business elsewhere, whereas private citizens don’t really have that luxury.
I mean, I’d never do business down there. No telling when the government would pay me in US dollars (which are hard to get otherwise). Not to mention just one day deciding to steal my stuff.
Citizens are pretty much stuck there and have to take it, with no means to leave.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Sun Mar 10, 2019, 11:06 PM

5. Hopefully Maduro allows a peaceful protest

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Response to ripcord (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 12:34 AM

6. The "opposition" is never peaceful. n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:19 AM

7. They launched violent protests they call "guarimbas" as soon as Chavez was elected.

Anyone who wants to find out what has really been going on can follow that word into the internet and keep on reading until they realize what "protest" really means to these racist greedy dirtbags.

If they are peaceful, they aren't the opposition!

Remember when they started dragging out their industrial strength slingshots and shooting marbles at pro-Chavez demonstrators? They shot an older man in the head, a marble shooting directly into his brain before he dropped where he stood.





















One of the first images from the first guarimbas which made the news in the US.
Awww, aren't those little white oligarch offspring cute? Bless their hearts.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:40 AM

8. +1

The poor things look famished. President Maduro should let some "aid" into the country.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 02:14 AM

65. Maybe they can get some relief when their next payday from N.E.D. arrives for them.)

Here's something I just saw after I started to respond to your post, from the Washington Post:

The U.S. has quietly supported the Venezuelan opposition for years

By Timothy M. Gill
February 19
While Venezuela’s political crisis has sunk below most Americans’ news horizons, the Trump administration has taken several unprecedented steps during the past few weeks.

First, the administration indicated it would support a military overthrow of the socialist government headed by President Nicolás Maduro. Second, the administration, alongside two dozen other countries, recognized opposition leader Juan Guaidó as the legitimate, interim president of Venezuela.

However unprecedented these two actions may be, the United States and Venezuela have had an acrimonious relationship for the past 20 years — in part because the United States has long supported the Venezuelan political opposition. Here’s how this past month’s actions grow from the approaches of the past four presidential administrations.

1. The United States has long been strategizing with opposition political parties
Shortly after Hugo Chávez’s initial election in 1998, the U.S.-funded National Endowment for Democracy (NED) took the lead in training and guiding political parties on how they might best compete against him. One of the NED’s sub-agencies, the International Republican Institute (IRI), led these efforts.

The IRI sponsored such Republican politicians as Darryl Howard, the executive director of the Oregon Republican Party, and Mike Collins, the former Republican Party press secretary, to travel to Venezuela and meet individually with Venezuelan party leaders from the opposition, offering guidance on how they might electorally defeat Chávez. IRI members also ran political workshops for party members on issues such as constructing political platforms and reaching out to youth. One IRI contractor who helped facilitate some of these workshops bluntly described their objective to me: to help the opposition “get [their] s— together so they could defeat Chávez.” In 2006, the IRI brought five technical specialists to assist the campaign of Manuel Rosales, the opposition’s presidential candidate, to monitor elections on the day of the event.

U.S. diplomats, including several ambassadors, also told me how they advised the opposition. One ambassador revealed she “met with the opposition — I can’t tell you how many times. I told them they need to come up with a plan and needed to unite. There were 50 opposition parties registered!” In doing so, she urged the opposition not to splinter its vote and hand Chávez an easy victory.

More:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2019/02/19/the-u-s-has-covertly-supposed-the-venezuelan-opposition-for-years/

~ ~ ~

01 March 2014, 1:00am
Does It Matter That the Venezuelan Opposition Is Funded by the US?
Opposition parties in Venezuela have been propped up by millions in US aid.

In the summer of 2007, the vehemently pro–Hugo Chávez journalist and lawyer Eva Golinger got on Venezuelan state TV and, with the help of a flow chart hand-drawn on flimsy poster board, called out several fellow journalists who had allegedly accepted US funding to help bring down the country's famously left-wing, anti-American president.

“These journalists are destabalising agents,” Golinger said, and explained that that they had participated in programs paid for by the US that were designed to promote a pro-American agenda, the goal of which was to create anti-socialist sentiment in Venezuela.

The accusation didn't cause the kind of uproar Golinger was hoping for. The journalists were briefly investigated by a government committee, but that prompted an immediate public outcry – in fact, many Chavistas rejected such McCarthy-like tactics, claiming they made them look bad.

The incident did cause the US Embassy in Caracas some concern, however. In a cable released by Wikileaks titled “IV Participants and USAID Partners Outed, Again” that describes Golinger's TV appearance and the aftermath, an embassy official wrote that people were becoming wary of getting involved with any enterprise funded by the US. “It is particularly hard to persuade Chávez supporters to participate in a program they perceived as potentially career-ending,” the official wrote. In other words, though Golinger embarrassed herself with her shit-stirring, the US was really trying to bring down Chávez by funneling money to his opponents.

Since then, the US has continued its longstanding practice of funding programs that it often claims are aimed at promoting fair elections and human rights, but also strengthen Venezuelan opposition groups – and this money may be influencing the ongoing protests that have helped put the country in a political crisis.

More:
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/av44kg/does-the-uss-funding-of-the-venezuelan-opposition-matter

~ ~ ~

Buying Venezuela’s Press With U.S. Tax Dollars
The U.S. State Department is secretly funneling millions of dollars to Latin American journalists. Newly released documents show that between 2007 and 2009, the State Department channeled at least $4 million to journalists in Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Venezuela through the Washington-based Pan American Development Foundation (PADF). Thus far, only documents pertaining to Venezuela have been released. They reveal that the PADF, collaborating with Venezuelan NGOs associated with the country’s political opposition, has been supplied with at least $700,000 to give out journalism grants and sponsor journalism education programs. In funding the Venezuelan news media, the United States is funding one of the opposition’s most powerful weapons against President Hugo Chávez.

July 15, 2010

Jeremy Bigwood

https://nacla.org/news/buying-venezuela%E2%80%99s-press-us-tax-dollars

ETC., ETC., ETC., ETC., ETC. . . . .

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #65)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 02:23 AM

67. Thanks.

On my list, first thing in the morning.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 07:04 AM

10. Slingshots against automatic weapons. Go see who is in the morgues in VZ

Then get back to me

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:17 AM

16. damn slingshots

 

Let the Chavistas colectivos show you how its done!



Now... how in the world are ordinary Chavez supporting citizens (guns are illegal) getting fully automatic weapons with grenade launchers?

???

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:32 AM

20. That's not staged at all.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:36 AM

22. if you say so

 

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 01:55 AM

63. I went to the site where that photo was published, "El Diestro," a fascist rag in Spain.

Here's a translation of a small article on that #### the Orange Fool said in one of his psychotic "speeches":

Donald Trump laughs at the radical environmentalism: "Honey, is the wind blowing today? I would like to watch television "
By El Diestro - March 4, 2019




The speech of Donald Trump
In a recent speech, Donald Trump sarcastically referred to radical ecologists for the rejoicing of his audience. And we, who also suffer from this ridiculous environmentalism from the state institutions, we see Trump's speech with healthy envy and with the wish that one day we can have politicians in Spain capable of saying something like that without anyone tearing their clothes .


(I couldn't understand why the @$$hole was looking up in the air while yelling for "Honey." How clumsy, and idiotic. He has embarrassed the entire human race, or the functional ones, at least. Why is "Honey" hovering in the air?)

~ ~ ~

Can you imagine how sad it is if there are very many drooling idiots like our right-wing in Spain, too, who read crap like this?

Good grief.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #63)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 02:10 AM

64. What a 'shock' to see such propaganda posted here.

People who support coercive, violent regime change in other countries, follow the same ideology the world over.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #64)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 02:19 AM

66. So odd! It's almost like the "Onion" until you realize that's their idea of reading material!

Don't know how any part of the human race could have fallen that low. I think it may be inbreeding.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #63)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:02 AM

68. Ugh. Nasty.



https://www.eldiestro.es/category/opinion/editoriales/

This is the Spanish far-from-center-right. There is nothing like an 'about' page at this site explaining who's behind it or who their sources might be, just the line "El Diestro es el diario online referente de la derecha española, editado por la sociedad civil y leído por miles de españoles." (El Diestro is the Spanish Right's online newspaper of reference, edited by civil society and read by thousands of Spaniards).

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #68)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:17 AM

69. The worshipers of the fascist, dirty mass-murdering, torture-loving Franco's legacy.

What a horrible shame, but there are still some of these loons left.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:45 AM

147. Same picture found in the PanAm Post. And various blogs.

 



Does this one offend you less?

Or is there something about Caracas Chronicles (and leftist, rabid anti-Trumper Francisco Toro) that is still offensive?



This one less offensive? Less fascist?

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #20)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:55 PM

123. It's definitely comical. The one in charge has no sense of subtlety, for sure.

Amazingly old guy, looking crabby, wearing a red beret, another making sure to wear a loud Che shirt.

But there isn't really anything bogus about it, is there?

There's a lot of comically arranged photos which have been peddled as authentic. The ones pushing them don't seem to realize the need to at least consider striving for the appearance of realism.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #123)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:05 PM

125. Notice all of the 'communist' icons, lol? n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #125)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:16 PM

127. Hilarious! Someone wants you to see they are the "enemy." n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #123)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:51 AM

149. SURE! All of these pictures (as Max Blumenthal has "proven" ) are all CIA staged events

 



Just some nice Venezuelan ladies out for a walk. (picture lifted from Twitter)



BTW, guns are illegal to possess in Venezuela. Especially large caliber fully automatic ones. Unless your a goon for the Chavistas.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 03:59 PM

48. if I sign up can I get a grenade launcher

I've always wanted one

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Response to PupCamo (Reply #48)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 04:04 PM

50. All you have to do is move to Venezuela

 

pledge fealty to Chavismo, and come out to defend Bolivarian Socialism when your masters call.

Colectivos do the dirty work that the GNB, FNB, FAES and DGCIM cannot be photographed doing. That would make it appear that Chavismo sanctions violence!



But if you join the DGCIM you get a cool totenkopf-esque Halloween mask!

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #50)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 07:38 PM

54. do I get my choice of color

or are all them that camo green

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 12:13 PM

27. It is a "revolution" of the well off.

 

The oil companies want control again.

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Response to irresistable (Reply #27)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 12:33 PM

28. They haven't had control since 1976. It's written into their (serial) Constitutions

 

All oil infrastructure is Venezuelan.

According to industry experts, whoever decides to help Venezuela get back to where it was 20 years ago are going to have to invest $60 billion. in 1999 they produced 3 million b/p/d. Today, less than 1 million b/p/d.

Not that the constitution means anything right now. Maduro just sold various oil fields to Russia and China for outstanding debts.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 12:51 PM

29. You are leaving out the part of the history in the 90's where Exxon was once again involved.

 

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Response to irresistable (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:06 PM

32. Lots of companies involved in past. Only a few now.

 

Conoco Phillips, Exxon, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Rosneft. Some are still involved. Also, oilfield services. Halliburton, Schlumberger. All vile capitalistic Multinationals.

Most have cut their losses. Conoco had their "share" of the industry nationalized by Chavez. Now Venezuela is on the hook for $8 billion and climbing.

Plenty of money to be made in Venezuela. Its just hard to do when you are dealing with the Castroist thieves.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #32)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:09 PM

33. The clue that we are not being told the real truth is that Trump wants to overthrow the regime.

 

If Trump wants it, the outcome will be horrible.

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Response to irresistable (Reply #33)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:11 PM

35. About 85% of Venezuela wants to be out from under the boot-heel of Chavismo

 

15% are waiting for a miracle along the lines of a Chavez reincarnation and a WAYBAC time machine.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #32)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 04:23 AM

70. Halliburton is evil

They are responsible for TCNs and they've been busted for bribery in Nigeria.

https://corpwatch.org/article/blood-sweat-tears-asias-poor-build-us-bases-iraq

https://www.icij.org/investigations/swiss-leaks/files-open-new-window-182-million-halliburton-bribery-scandal-nigeria/

They have also been busted for violating US law several times.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #28)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:04 PM

31. Their oil is also high sulfur and very viscous.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:09 PM

34. Most of it, yes!

 

The stuff in the west, more sweet like WTI or Brent.

The stuff that Venezuela has a lot of is like tar sands and VERY sulfurous, in the Faja del Orinoco.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 04:15 PM

52. And that's where the XL pipeline comes into play

The heavy crude refineries built specifically to process heavy Venezuelan oil can also refine Canada's tar sand oil.

Oh, the Koch brothers are seeking to replace Ven's supply with Canada's filthy oil.




The Koch Brothers, Hugo Chavez and the XL Pipeline
https://www.gregpalast.com/the-koch-brothers-hugo-chavez-and-the-xl-pipeline/



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Response to Miguel M (Reply #52)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 04:43 PM

53. The Keystone has ZERO to do with Venezuela and any "oil grab" there

 

If anything, the Keystone makes an Venezuelan oil grab even more illogical.

Please, stop with offering Greg Palast as a source of any information. The guy can't string together a thought without inserting 3 outright lies and omitting 5 inconvenient facts.

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Response to irresistable (Reply #27)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:56 PM

124. The rabid whites want their control back, too. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #124)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:46 PM

135. Racist much?

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #135)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:54 PM

139. You are confused. The ones who are racist are the ones who have controlled the country

and treated ALL people of color like trash all these wildly long years.

"Racist much?" Doesn't approach even a shadow of cleverness. It's meaningless.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #139)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:59 PM

142. ALL of the country is suffering, except those bribed by Maduro. ALL races. 20 years of BS

Your excitement to blame "whites" is ridiculous. But always the convenient scapegoat. Just like "the CIA"

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #142)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 11:03 PM

143. Many of us are totally familiar with propaganda. It's been so overused even stupid people see it.

It's simply futile to keep dragging around misinformation when so many people know otherwise.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #143)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:24 AM

145. Maduro needs all the useful idiots the world can spare

 

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #143)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 08:09 AM

156. Total Socialism always fails. Always. the people always suffer in the end. Always. Have fun.

Your man will be gone one way or another. Only a matter of time. And the country will be better off.
You're happy to be in the company of Russia, Iran, Cuba & China. The main backers of Maduro. That should tell you something right there. But you'll ignore it. And you'll ignore those who KNOW the truth of the reality of whats happening in VZ. Because the "agenda" is more important than reality.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 07:02 AM

9. Maduro has murder squads roaming the country. The opposition doesnt.

ANYTHING goes as long as blame is placed on the US

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #9)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 10:07 AM

13. No he doesn't. That's complete poppycock.

You're the first 'source' I've ever heard that from.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 10:44 AM

14. Yes, he does. Here's several articles about Maduros murderers. You should read more.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:28 AM

18. Very little information there.

- But little is known about the elite group’s inner workings or even who exactly commands it.
- It had not been possible to identify the perpetrators of each death
- There are no studies about the profile of its officers nor any public information or accountability; the only thing citizens know about FAES is how they operate, a pattern that appears consistently in hundreds of testimonies.

That was from the first three articles. I didn't read the Washington Post article, because I'm not going to pay to read CIA propaganda. It appears as though no one really knows exactly who is doing these killings.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:43 PM

41. "CIA propaganda". HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA. What a joke.

Obama and trump working together to spread the same "disinformation". Thats rich.
Regardless, Maduro WILL go down. He will take as much of the country's money as possible as well as his henchmen. And those who support his failed policies will be left wondering where else it can be tried the "right" way.

Switch browsers and you wont have to pay WaPo

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #41)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:40 PM

94. I guess you forgot about when Dems and Repugs voted to invade Iraq because ...

... of the impending "mushroom cloud". (With some notable exceptions.) And then, it turned into "for humanitarian" reasons. Look at what turned out.

Pretty much the same thing with the 60+ years of bi-partisan anti Cuba attacks, sanctions, travel bans of US citizens, etc etc.
All for nothing but local politics and fundraising in the USA. Both parties.

Cheers


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Response to Miguel M (Reply #94)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 06:42 PM

107. Iraq was invaded because Dick Cheney is evil. Comparing VZ & Iraq is ridiculous.

Maduro is finished. Its just a matter of how long it takes & how far the country sinks before they're free of him.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #107)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 06:48 PM

110. Was comparing the decision and weak rationale for them.

Wasn't comparing VZ to Iraq. Just the decision and weak and changing rationales for them. Nice forum slide attempt. No dice.

Although, we do know that sanctions on Iraq resulted in at least 500,000 children dying.

And some people here are denying that sanctions don't hurt Venezuelans.








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Response to Miguel M (Reply #110)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 06:53 PM

112. Make up whatever silly terms you want, name some FREE countries that support keeping Maduro?

Too many to name, right?
Ha
Again, its only a matter of time. Its up to Maduro whether he lives somewhere with billions of the people's money or he's dragged out by his feet.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 04:00 PM

49. it's MSM so it doesn't count

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 12:36 AM

60. And how hard right and corrupt the replacement will be.

And how many people will die at their hands, and how it probably wont even make news as whoever it is gets all the state visits and official support they could want here in the US.

In the mean time, will Duterte also be a target of our collective wrath and determination to cause regime change, now that we apparently are starting to care about murder squads?

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #60)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:59 AM

82. Whoever takes over when Maduro is gone wont be as bad as him.

I doubt people will be starving in the streets and wiping their ass with grass.

Havent seen any stories on the mass starvation of the Philippines or the seivure of private property and foreign companies. Nice re-direct though.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #82)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:52 AM

150. Thats not usually how it works

You brought up death squads and opened that door.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #150)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 08:05 AM

155. The death squads are there. Plenty of evidence to show it.

Will the transition be seamless? of course not. I'm sure there will be a lot of trouble at the start. But when all is said and done, the replacement will be better than maduro. Because keeping Maduro just ensures the continued failure of the country.
Total Socialism fails. Always.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:18 AM

17. ronnie, have you been to Venezuela?

 

Have family there?

The vast majority of people who support Chavismo don't live there. I ask because of that fact.

I have family there. I get my info first hand from them.

Where do you get your news from Venezuela?

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:29 AM

19. That's not a logical arguement. n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:33 AM

21. If you say so

 

Logically, we then must assume you know nothing about what is going on in Venezuela.

That is how logic works.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #21)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:37 AM

23. Logically then

we must assume that you know nothing about anything that you don't have personal experience with, because presumably, you can't possibly learn anything by reading.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:48 AM

24. Is that your best syllogistic reasoning?

 

I have family in Venezuela. I talk to them several times per week.

You think the Washington Post is a tool of the CIA. I can only imagine what passes for reliable, objective information for you.

Goodbye.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:57 AM

25. Why the Washington Post 's New Ties to the CIA Are So Ominous

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 12:08 PM

26. None so blind as those who will not see nt

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #24)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:45 PM

42. I'm sorry you have to go thru this EVERY time. EVERY time. Its amazing.

I do not have family there, but know a couple who do. And read from folks like you. The truth is obvious to anyone wanting to see it.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 04:08 PM

51. Don't worry about me

 

I engage a lot of people on DU who are very well spoken and thoughtful, even though we may disagree. You can't come aboard a place like this without running into a few zealots.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:54 AM

81. Keep peddling that tea!

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:00 PM

30. Maduro needs to get off his high horse

and ask for some practical help. I suggest he ask the EU.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:13 PM

36. Meh. He doesn't see a problem.

 

People are born. They live. They suffer. They die.

What is important is the Bolivarian Revolution.

THE REVOLUTION MUST LIVE!

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #36)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:36 PM

39. I think that modern life is not conducive to revolution.

It's a complex interdependent society and economy. When your skilled electrical people leave the country, the lights go out after a while.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:27 PM

37. I'm sorry, but who is this tool, and why should Americans care?

If history has shown anything, as soon as he gets in, he’ll start shooting people and robbing the populace blind (they have Maduro for that now). What’s funny is, nobody cares what’s going on in Venezuela, but the Trump admin is astroturfing a revolutionary movement there that nobody wants (minus US oil companies).

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #37)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:37 PM

40. "nobody cares what's going on in Venezuela"?

 

I think you are incorrect.

3 million+ have fled Venezuela
No food
No running water (unless you consider sewers "running water" )
No electricity
No free press (TV, radio, internet, newsprint)
No open and transparent elections
1.7 million percent inflation last year. 10 million percent expected this year
Worthless currency
Minimum wage of 16 cents per day
Political repression and murders

Some of us care.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #37)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:48 PM

43. "Who is this TOOL"??? He's the LEGITIMATE President of VZ, according to their constitution.

For God's sake, read up.
And a LOT of people care, especially the neighboring countries who are having to bear the cost of the HUGE mass of people fleeing.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #43)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 09:06 PM

55. Specifically, which articles of the Venezuelan constitution

enabled Juan Guaido to be the legitimate president?

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #55)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 09:54 PM

56. Here:

The Venezuelan opposition bases its actions on the 1999 Venezuelan Constitution, specifically Articles 233, 333 and 350.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #56)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 01:10 AM

61. Im very curious as to their thread of reasoning

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Venezuela_2009.pdf

Article 233 : President can be replaced if the supreme tribunal removes him, or if he dies or is rendered medically unable to serve.

Article 333: Constitution remains valid even if it is ignored by those in power.

Article 350: 1961 constitution is annulled and replaced with this one. Subclauses "1) laws for the capital 2) residents rights/citizenship 3) direction for penal codes 4) requirement to make new laws re torture, asylum/refugees, labor law, bank law, etc. 5) Requirement to create a tax code 6) requirement to complete laws to fill out the constitution within 2 years 7) Details about adding native representatives to their legislative bodies.... and 12 more. 19 provisions to 350.. and not a one of them would seem to have any clear application to the situation.

Im very confused what their constitutional argument is, if its based on those three articles.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #61)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:19 PM

87. Here:

The National Assembly invoked Article 233 due to abandonment of [President's] position, arguing that "de facto dictatorship" means no democratic leader.

Article 333 calls for citizens to restore and enforce the Constitution if it is not followed. Article 350 calls for citizens to "disown any regime, legislation or authority that violates democratic values".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Venezuelan_presidential_crisis#Justification_for_the_challenge

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #87)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 01:48 AM

152. Interesting reading. Especially if you follow the rabbit hole

Interesting to me, i see a lot of wierd inverted parallels to US events.

Instead of the supreme court ruling that votes shouldn't be counted, the supreme tribunal ruled that several contested elections were invalid.

Then the assembly swore those members in regardless. The court held the assembly in contempt and took away their powers.

In response the assembly essentially decided to pretend the court was invalid and made their own Supreme Tribunal, but in Panama, not in Venezuala.

And that court has spent its time asking for his Maduro's Birth certificate, ruling that he was never legitimately elected because he was born in Columbia. Then ruling that he is no longer legitimate cause elections. Then ruling that there should be an international military coalition to oust Maduro.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #56)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 01:34 AM

62. Article 233

The President of the Republic shall become permanently unavailable to serve by reason of any of the following events: death; resignation; removal from office by decision of the Supreme Tribunal of Justice; permanent physical or mental disability certified by a medical board designated by the Supreme Tribunal of Justice with the approval of the National Assembly; abandonment of his position, duly declared by the National Assembly; and recall by popular vote.

Which of these justifications apply to President Maduro?

Article 333: This Constitution shall not cease to be in effect if it ceases to be observed due to acts of force or because or repeal in any manner other than as provided for herein.

In such eventuality, every citizen, whether or not vested with official authority, has a duty to assist in bringing it back into actual effect.


Article 350: The people of Venezuela, true to their republican tradition and their struggle for independence, peace and freedom, shall disown any regime, legislation or authority that violates democratic values, principles and guarantees or encroaches upon human rights.

More than 80% of the Venezuelan population oppose US interventionism and regime change, according to the local polling firm, Hinterlaces.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #62)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 07:55 AM

72. Did you READ Article 350 that YOU quoted??? Maduro violates that clause DAILY.

Maduro was NOT LEGALLY ELECTED. He hand picked his opposition in the last election, paid for votes, jailed anyone the people supported, ect
HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS.
Would you put up with trump preventing the top 10 Democrats from running in 2020? Would you accept a '20 Trump victory using those rules?

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #72)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 10:22 AM

73. It's not our call.

Most Venezuelans do not want Juan Guaido as their president. The vast majority had never even heard of him before this latest installment of the 20-year-long US destabilization campaign.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #73)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:38 AM

75. No, most, almost all, do NOT want MADURO as president. Show a legit poll showing otherwise.

He's gone one way or another. Its the only way the country can begin to heal from his murderous, thieving regime. That was NOT elected legally.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #75)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 04:07 PM

95. His base is 30% of the population; the largest by far.

And "murderous and theiving" are propaganda slurs that ignore the fact that things were far worse before the Bolivian revolution; higher infant and maternal mortality, more extreme poverty and lack of education, and a far more repressive government. Most of the current problems result directly from economic warfare by the US and its allies. Our greed driven leaders will end up causing a civil war there.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #95)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 07:11 PM

96. "economic warfare by the US"

You mean the country who was their largest trading partner for exports AND imports?
Funny way to wage "economic warfare".

But I know, CHILE 1973!!!!

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #96)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 01:15 AM

99. No currency or oil market manipulation; no sanctions?

How fascinating.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #99)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 03:41 PM

104. Up until last month US sanctions only targeted a few govt officials for human rights violations.

Currency manipulation? No country will take Venz's worthless currency.
Oil market manipulation? If you mean the US is now a major producer and prices have gone down because of that, yea! I like paying less for gas.
The Chavistas have had 20 years to diversify their economy and failed to do so, that is on them.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #99)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 05:21 PM

105. You seem pretty keen on currency and oil market manipulations in Venezuela

 

Tell us more about that.

What has anyone (outside of Venezuela) done to the Venezuelan currency that has dropped 8 zeros from it, and renamed twice in 10 years?

What has other nations done to PdVSA so that they produce 1/3 of what they did before Chavez, and the lowest output in nearly 70 years.

Please, be specific.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #105)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 05:52 PM

106. Foreign 'Visible Hand' of Market Exposed, Barred in Venezuela

There is a clear message that the foreign ‘visible hand’ of the market will meet the ‘hard hand’ of the state if necessary, writes Nino Pagliccia.

Since 2012, Venezuela has undergone an economic war directed mostly by and from the United States that has targeted market prices of goods and services, in part by the impact of unilateral economic sanctions, but also by the manipulation of exchange rates in the illegal parallel market. The aim has been to disarticulate the economic and political stability of the Venezuelan constitutional order, within a plan that aims for regime change.

The economic war has partially achieved the intended goal by creating shortages and disrupting production. The result has been a spiraling inflationary process, kept at bay only by the recent monetary measures adopted by the Maduro government.

But in order to understand the importance of those monetary measures, it is first essential to understand the mechanism of the foreign-induced inflationary process that has gripped the Venezuelan economy.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telesurenglish.net/amp/opinion/Foreign-Visible-Hand-of-Market-Exposed-Barred-in-Venezuela-20180926-0027.html

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #106)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 07:51 PM

117. Telesur? Hahaha..

....you'll need a more unbiased source for anything..

Telesur (stylised as teleSUR) is a Latin American terrestrial and satellite television network headquartered in Caracas, Venezuela and sponsored primarily by the government of Venezuela, with additional funding from the governments of Cuba, Nicaragua, Uruguay, and Bolivia. It was launched in 2005, under the government of Hugo Chavez, with the aim of being "a Latin socialist answer to CNN"

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #95)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 06:47 PM

109. Trump's base is 30%. We laugh at that. And Maduro's approval rating is BELOW 20%. try again.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #72)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:23 PM

88. Not to mention if Trump declared the House of Rep null and void and made up his own one..

...like Maduro did.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #88)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 06:43 PM

108. Thank you.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:34 PM

38. The Democratic Party is going to need to eventually

move away from the Cold War attitudes (which is still embraced by many baby boomers/Gen. Xers) and the reflexive hostility towards socialist governments abroad. The Soviet Union has been gone since 1991, and the Americans who were born since that time weren't raised on a strict diet of "Socialism Bad!" indoctrination day-in and day-out. Younger, more progressive-minded Democrats aren't necessarily buying into this worldview

I don't think it's an accident that many older Democrats in Congress (which is all of the top leadership) are teaming up with odious war criminals from the Trump regime to go after Venezuela. Maduro has been elected twice, he is not the dictator he has been accused of being, and he is the majority's choice to lead Venezuela - it's time to give Western paternalism and "my backyard" rhetoric a rest and respect the democracy Venezuelans have built for themselves.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #38)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 01:51 PM

44. "Elected twice"? The last election was a real one? Ha.

FAILURE. Total Socialism ALWAYS fails.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #38)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 02:36 PM

45. "Maduro has been elected twice, he is not the dictator he has been accused of being"

Yes and what a fair election it was! lol

Move up the election? Check

Considered a snap election, the original electoral date was scheduled for December 2018 but was subsequently pulled ahead to 22 April before being pushed back to 20 May.[5][6][7] Some analysts described the poll as a show election,[8][9] with the elections having the lowest voter turnout in the country's democratic era.
Because of this, the European Union,[12][13] the Organization of American States, the Lima Group[14] and countries including Australia and the United States rejected the electoral process.[15][16] However, countries including China, South Africa, Cuba, Iran, Egypt, Russia, Syria, Turkey and others recognized the election result.

Vote buying? check


Reports of vote buying were also prevalent during the presidential campaigning. Venezuelans suffering from hunger were pressured to vote for Maduro, with the government bribing potential supporters with food.[122] Maduro promised rewards for citizens who scanned their Carnet de la Patria at the voting booth, which would allow the government to monitor the political party of their citizens and whether or not they had voted.
Carnet de la Patria, a digital ID based on China's Social Credit System. The card allows the government to monitor citizen behavior such as voting history.

International condemnation? check


United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein noted that his office had concerns that reports of extrajudicial killings cast doubts on fairness, stating "this context does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections"
Prior to the elections, the Lima Group, with its participating nations of Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, and Saint Lucia, stated that they would not recognize the results of the presidential elections due to the perceived lack of transparency.
On 8 February, the European Parliament, with 480 votes in favor, 51 against, and 70 abstentions, adopted a resolution demanding sanctions against President Nicolás Maduro, Vice President Tareck el Aissami, and other officials, considering them "responsible for the aggravation of the crisis.[161][162] The European Union, through the European Parliament, also ruled that it would not recognize the 20 May elections and called the electoral process "fraudulent".[12] On 3 May 2018, the European Parliament again called for the immediate suspension of the 20 May election until "free and fair elections were held on a schedule agreed upon with the participation of all relevant actors and political parties.

The governments of Argentina,[163] Canada,[164] Chile,[165] Colombia,[153] Costa Rica,[166] France,[167] Jamaica,[168] Panama,[169] Paraguay,[170] Spain,[171] the United States[162] and Uruguay[172] directly criticized the electoral process in various ways, condemning the disqualification and imprisonment of MUD individuals, the lack of advanced notice for the election date and the bias of electoral bodies, describing such actions by the Venezuelan government antidemocratic.[173][174] Remaining member governments representing countries from the Lima Group, including Brazil, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Peru, and Saint Lucia, denounced the elections in a joint statement through declarations made by the organization.[153]

Meanwhile, the governments of Antigua and Barbuda,[175] Bolivia,[176] Cuba,[177][178] Nicaragua,[179] North Korea[180] and Russia[181][182] reacted to the call for elections positively, showing support for the process and demanded that there be no intervention.

But just to make sure, the government has banned the two most popular opposition politicians – Leopoldo López and Henrique Capriles from running.


Even the company that supplies the voting machines say they were tampered with:

Turnout numbers for Sunday's controversial vote in Venezuela have been "tampered with", the company that provided the voting system alleges.
Venezuela's electoral authorities said more than eight million people, or 41.5% of the electorate, had voted for a new constituent assembly.
But the CEO of Smartmatic, Antonio Mugica, said the actual turnout was inflated by at least one million.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-40804812

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #45)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 03:01 PM

47. What people don't/won't realize is that both Leopoldo Lopez and Henrique Capriles are leftists

 

Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2019, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

This information flies in the face of the sycophants for Maduro and Bolivarian Socialism. They contend that both candidates are "right wingers", when in reality, neither are.

Henrique Capriles = PJ Primero Justicia (Justice First) Progressivism/Humanism
Leopoldo López = VP Voluntad Popular (Popular Will) Progressivism/Social democracy AND a member of Socialist International

I challenge anyone on this forum to name ONE mainstream right-wing party in Venezuela.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #45)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:45 AM

76. Everything you've posted is pro-Western propaganda from

governments allied with the US regime changers. This is not unbiased information and I'm sure you know that very well.

Venezuela's far-right is simply outnumbered by the many who've benefited from Chavista policies over the years, and besides their victory in winning the National Assembly, they simply can't win an election that is fair and square. This is why they are begging the US government to intervene with violence on their behalf. They are sore losers who feel they are entitled to be the countries rulers, and apparently you and the Trump regime agree.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #76)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:49 AM

78. Sure, comrade. Ignore the FACTS posted by others about that "fair & square" election.

What a sad joke.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #78)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 01:06 PM

85. Do you personally agree with the hostile

moves by the Trump regime to overthrow a democratically-elected government?

Should we only support democracy when non-socialists win the vote?

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #85)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 06:49 PM

111. THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY IN VENEZUELA. Its a dictatorship. Where ya been, comrade?

See the other answers to your first try.
They explain it far better than I

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #111)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 11:39 AM

172. When people vote on who their leaders

are and those leaders assume power, that's called a democracy.

The right-wingers won the National Assembly (much to your delight I'm sure) and they assumed power (which they abused and used to try and literally destroy the government). A dictatorship wouldn't have even allowed them to get as far as winning an election.

Venezuela in many respects is more democratic than the US.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #172)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 02:33 PM

173. Horseshit. Maduro jailed his true opponents & only let people as bad as him run. Just like Putin.

Those types of countries all have "elections", and the outcome is set before the first vote is cast.
If what you said was true, trump would jail ALL the Democrats running for election in '20. Not that he wouldnt LIKE to, but he cant.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #76)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:16 PM

86. " by the many who've benefited from Chavista policies over the years"

Is that the benefits of no food, no medicine and no electricity?

Are you saying Maduro didn't move up the election?
That he didn't arrest the most popular rival politicians?
That he didn't promise food packages if they voted for him?
That the population isn't starving and fleeing the country? (10% have fled so far)

That there is no Carnet de la Patria?

Carnet de la Patria, a digital ID based on China's Social Credit System. The card allows the government to monitor citizen behavior such as voting history.

Your post was nice and fact free I will say.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #86)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 02:40 PM

164. No, the people who have continued to vote Maduro and

his socialists into power - the majority of Venezuelans citizens.

More people have fled the US-backed right-wing regime of Colombia than have fled Venezuela, but I guess speaking about Colombia is off limits.

I don't see too many high-level Democrats speaking out against Trump favorites like Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. That is distressing on many levels.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #164)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:27 PM

167. No one who is up on the matter thinks Maduro had majority support in the last election.

He was polling on the 20's%, turn out was 17.32–25.8% and yet he magically got 67% of the vote, of course the makers of the voting machines said there was massive fraud and the majority of popular leaders of the MUD and other members of the opposition could not apply for the elections because of administrative and legal procedures and were disqualified from participating in the presidential elections by the government. Plus he threw the most popular leaders in prison....
I guess that all sounds legit to you.
Let me save you the time: "It's all Western propaganda!!!"

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #167)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 11:35 AM

171. Their "popular leaders" have been involved in

coup attempts and have been encouraging street violence.

Your BBC/CNN polls are obviously lies because Venezuela's elections have been deemed free and fair by all observers who were there to witness them. If you poll only the sections of Venezuela were the rich racists live, of course his support won't match reality.

Let me ask you this: Are you a fan of Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro? I'm curious.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #171)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:53 PM

175. "because Venezuela's elections have been deemed free and fair by all observers"

Sure, as long as you think throwing the popular opposition leaders in prison......and moving up the elections....and disqualifying other popular parties from running.....and promising food to the starving to vote for him.....and making you scan a govt ID card that shows how you voted.....and hacking the voting machines to add a few million votes......is a fair election.
My mileage differs.

I don't follow Brazilian politics as I don't have any Brazilian friends and don't speak Portuguese and they aren't a oil rich country where there is no food or medicine.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #76)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:29 PM

91. "pro-Western propaganda" You mean like Human Rights Watch? Amnesty Int? ReportersW/oBorders?

Human Rights Watch:
Under the leadership of President Hugo Chávez and President Nicolás Maduro, the accumulation of power in the executive branch and erosion of human rights guarantees have enabled the government to intimidate, censor, and punish its critics. Severe shortages of medicines, medical supplies, and food have intensified since 2014, and weak government responses have undermined Venezuelans’ rights to health and food. Security forces have arbitrarily detained and tortured protesters, and raids in low-income communities have led to widespread allegations of abuse. Other persistent concerns include poor prison conditions and impunity for human rights abuses.

https://www.hrw.org/americas/venezuela


AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL:
Venezuela remained in a state of emergency, repeatedly extended since January 2016. A National Constituent Assembly was elected without the participation of the opposition. The Attorney General was dismissed under irregular circumstances. Security forces continued to use excessive and undue force to disperse protests. Hundreds of people were arbitrarily detained. There were many reports of torture and other ill-treatment, including sexual violence against demonstrators. The judicial system continued to be used to silence dissidents, including using military jurisdiction to prosecute civilians. Human rights defenders were harassed, intimidated and subject to raids. Conditions of detention were extremely harsh. The food and health crises continued to worsen, especially affecting children, people with chronic illness and pregnant women. The number of Venezuelans seeking asylum in other countries increased.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/venezuela/report-venezuela/


Reporters Without Borders said that the media in Venezuela is "almost entirely dominated by the government and its obligatory announcements, called cadenas.
According to the National Sindicate of Press Workers of Venezuela, 115 media outlets have been shut down between 2013 and 2018 during Nicolás Maduro's government, including 41 printed means, 65 radio outlets and 9 television channels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Venezuela

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #91)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 03:25 PM

161. I notice the Maduro fans avoid this post like the plague..

...I guess it's harder to scream "Western propaganda!!" at Amnesty Int. with a straight face.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #91)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 02:37 PM

163. Yes, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International

have both looked the other way when it came to condemning criminality committed by the US and NATO countries. Their criticism of countries in the favor of the US is usually very muted and subdued if it exists at all.

They are in no way impartial, unbiased observers and both respond to the dictates of Western power centers.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #163)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:24 PM

166. Gotta ya, the only sources you can trust are Venz mouthpieces and Marxists blogs apparently..lol

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #38)

Mon Mar 11, 2019, 02:52 PM

46. Maduro Won ONE election, and that came on the back of Chavez' cult of personality

 

When Chavez died, the economy was already going over the cliff. Maduro BARELY won in April, 2013 against an unpopular opponent. (another leftist, of all things! Henry Capriles, who admired Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil)

This most recent election was utter fraud. Maduro practically handpicked the most unpopular candidates he allowed to run against him. Henri Falcón (a disaffected PSUV member, avowed Chavist and the equivalent of a walking, talking human piece of shit) is probably more hated than Maduro, if that can be believed. All other popular candidates and their political parties were forbidden to participate by the all Chavista TSJ (Supreme Court). In the end, it was a "blowout win" for Maduro.

FACT: When Chavez won reelection in 2012, the once popular Eternal Commander didn't win by very much (54%). Already the luster had come off his disastrous economic policies.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #46)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:32 AM

74. The economic slowdown was more about the steep

fall in oil prices than the socialism of the Venezuelan government. Like all countries whose economies depend primarily on oil revenue, Venezuela's social programs, which were and still are very popular among the poor and communities of color there, lost a lot of funding and things became more difficult. You can fault the Chavez/Maduro governments of not properly preparing for the possibility that oil prices could drop steeply if anything, but it wasn't socialism that is to blame.

The opposition boycotted last year's elections because they knew they couldn't win them, period. The hard part of democracy is that the person you hate sometimes wins, but that doesn't mean you abandon your democratic ideals and start cheering on vicious right-wing fanatics like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo as they launch into open warfare against the people of Venezuela.

Democrats aren't going to have to distinguish themselves from the Republicans in terms of foreign policy going forward.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #74)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:46 AM

77. Their economy was going downhill with $90-100 oil. And Maduro blocked real opponents from the race.

good lord.
Thats why the election was boycotted. He only allowed horribly unpopular candidates to run against him & jailed the popular ones. Just look upthread for the explanation of his theft of the "election"
And you CAN blame their socialist policies for their failure. Because total socialism ALWAYS fails. And it always will. And dont point to Denmark or France or any other European country, because NONE of them are socialist countries.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #74)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:26 PM

90. Did the price of oil ruin Venezuela's food production also?

Or was that the govt interference?

?ssl=1

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #74)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 07:16 PM

97. The opposition boycotted last year's elections because they knew they couldn't win them, period.

 

Utter horseshit.

Maduro packed his TSJ and CNE with Chavistas. Together, they decided who and who could not fields candidates for the elections (local, regional and presidential) All of the major political parties were banned, as well as candidates who might try to dump their party and run as an independent. The only people who were allowed to run where a religious weirdo and two other no-nothing Chavistas. The ONLY name with any recognition was Henri Falcón, a Chavista who left the PSUV on bad terms and by all accounts a walking, talking turd. The ONLY person in Venezuela more hated than Maduro. Except maybe Henry Ramos Allup. Every single candidate a poison pill.

PERIOD.

The majority of popular leaders of the MUD and other members of the opposition could not apply for the elections because of administrative and legal procedures and were disqualified from participating in the presidential elections by the government. This included Henrique Capriles (candidate in the 2012 and 2013 elections), Leopoldo López (sentenced to almost 14 years of prison during the 2014 protests), Antonio Ledezma (arrested in 2015 and later placed under house arrest), Freddy Guevara (whose parliamentary immunity was removed and fled to the residence of the Chilean ambassador), and David Smolansky (currently in exile), as well as María Corina Machado and Miguel Rodríguez Torres, former defense minister and dissident chavista, also incarcerated.[59] On 5 April 2017, the Comptroller General of Venezuela notified Capriles that for 15 years, he would be prevented from participating in public office, due to his alleged misuse of public funds, a charge that Capriles denied.[60]

The main opposition political parties were disqualified after they were forced to reregister themselves for a second time in less than a year by the National Electoral Council (CNE) after not participating in the 2017 municipal elections. The parties Popular Will and Puente refused to do so, while the CNE prevented Justice First; only the party Acción Democrática was revalidated.[62] In late January 2018, the Constitutional Chamber of the Supreme Tribunal of Justice blocked the revalidation of the Democratic Unity Roundtable card, the most voted in the electoral history of the country, and was also banned.[62][63] Finally, Justice First was disqualified weeks later from the presidential race in early February 2018, leaving only Democratic Action and other minor opposition parties.[64]

The actions by the government cleared the path for Henry Ramos Allup and his Democratic Action to gain popularity in the presidential elections. Ramos Allup was accused of "cozying up" to the ruling PSUV party during the recent regional elections. He has been criticized for his negotiations with the government.[61] After many other opposition parties were disqualified, President Maduro singled out Ramos Allup and stated that he would run against him.[65]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #97)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 02:47 PM

165. If Maduro was as hated as you claim,

the people wouldn't still be backing him and he wouldn't still be in power.

I think the majority of Venezuela's people realize that the US has been attacking them since 1998 and that it is in their best interests to fight back against what the US is doing to them.

The opposition we're supposed to be grieving for is in direct cahoots with a hostile foreign power that has attempted a couple of coups already, tried to assassinate the elected president with a drone-borne explosive, and have engaged in lynchings and violence against the government. If there were folks doing this in the US, what do you think would happen to them?

The right-wing racists you support need to just leave Venezuela and settle in Miami, where they can be treated like royalty and can vote for their Republican heroes like the little thug Marco Rubio.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #165)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:41 PM

168. Yes they all love it there, that's why 10% of the country has fled...

Dictators don't have to be loved, just have a ruthless secret police, like N Korea, Stalin in the USSR etc.
I hope the Venz govt is paying you for these posts.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #168)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 11:31 AM

170. Maduro's government hasn't been

clamping down on the right-wing insurrectionists as much as he'd be justified in doing.

The right-wing still runs their media and they tweet incessantly. A real dictator would have shut these freedoms down a long time ago.

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Response to solidLxxi (Reply #170)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 03:47 PM

174. "The right-wing still runs their media" Said no one ever...

Human Rights Watch said that during "the leadership of President Chávez and now President Maduro, the accumulation of power in the executive branch and the erosion of human rights guarantees have enabled the government to intimidate, censor, and prosecute its critics" and reported that broadcasters may be censored if they criticize the government.

Reporters Without Borders said that the media in Venezuela is "almost entirely dominated by the government and its obligatory announcements, called cadenas.

In 1998, independent television represented 88% of the 24 national television channels while the other 12% of channels were controlled by the Venezuelan government. By 2014, there were 105 national television channels with only 48 channels, or 46%, representing independent media while the Venezuelan government and the "communitarian channels" it funded accounted for 54% of channels, or the 57 remaining channels.[7] Freedom House has also stated that there is "systematic self-censorship" encouraged toward the remaining private media due to pressure by the Venezuelan government.[8]

According to the National Sindicate of Press Workers of Venezuela, 115 media outlets have been shut down between 2013 and 2018 during Nicolás Maduro's government, including 41 printed means, 65 radio outlets and 9 television channels.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Venezuela

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:49 AM

79. Rightwing talking points, day after day for years now.

The economy is being destroyed by East Caracas and rightwing expatriates. Been going on for years

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #79)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 11:51 AM

80. How's that possible when they're not in control of anything? Enlighten us, pleaase!

MADURO controls everything going on in VZ. nd he's the one to blame for its miserable failure.
And HE will be taken out, either feet first or flying. And when he DOES leave, you can bet it will be with as much Venezuelan money as he can carry

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #79)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:35 PM

92. So which of these are the fault of the RW expats? :

Price controls during rampant inflation making the shelves bare of food.
Over printing money causing the million % inflation.
Ridiculous multi-level currency controls ensuring no dollars to buy imports.
Confiscation of foreign property driving off investment.
Firing competent oil workers and substituting lackeys, ensuring oil production drops.
Failing to diversify the economy from oil.
Failing to invest in electrical infrastructure resulting in rolling blackouts.
Pricing gas so low it's all black marketed to neighboring countries.

Command economies have never worked.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)


Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 01:05 PM

84. Guaido is an illegitimate puppet who has already been abandoned by the US

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Response to Huffleprecious (Reply #84)

Fri Mar 15, 2019, 03:45 PM

169. I believe you meant to say he is elected President of the National Assembly of Venezuela? nt

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:26 PM

89. Maduro is a piece of shit who ate empanada on live TV while his people starved

Jesus F. Christ, why are people here still defending him??

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Response to ansible (Reply #89)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 03:37 PM

93. We had some big some big Mugabe fans here in the past, even a N Korea defender.

Basically if you give the West the finger you are OK with some basement dwelling Neo-Marxists, regardless of how you treat your own population.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #93)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 01:26 AM

100. Reiterating US atrocities, including the forgotten slaughter of millions of Koreans

is a good idea. Americans are a clueless, apathetic lot.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #100)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 12:22 PM

102. Speak for youself...which I assume you are....nt

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #100)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 06:56 PM

113. "slaughter of millions of Koreans"? Um, yeah, the North Koreans are the ones still killing

WHere the hell did you get your information?

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #113)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 07:35 PM

115. Lol. n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #115)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 07:38 PM

116. Exactly. Just as i figured.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #116)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 08:48 PM

119. Curtis LeMay:

We went over there and fought the war and eventually burned down every town in North Korea anyway, someway or another, and some in South Korea too.… Over a period of three years or so, we killed off — what — twenty percent of the population of Korea as direct casualties of war, or from starvation and exposure?

He should know at least as well as anyone.

What do you think happens when a tiny country is bombed daily for years? How old are you?

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #119)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 09:43 PM

122. None of which happens if the communists didnt invade the South. North got what they asked for.

At the end of WW2 we allowed Russia to force a split of Korea, just like we foolishly allowed them to enslave Eastern Europe by letting them be the ones to take Berlin.
But then, thats what we do, try to be fair even to those who dont deserve it. And WW2 was the last war fought to be total victory.
North Korea controlled 90% of the South until the US got involved. They've been losers ever since.
And total casualties for the war were estimated to be 1M. We didnt kill them all

But you go ahead and keep on backing losers, comrade.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #122)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:08 PM

126. FOX 'news' version of 'history', if I ever heard it, lol. n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #126)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:19 PM

128. Amazing! I did wonder if those in West Berlin knew the commies took Berlin.

Someone pulled out the stops on the illumination of Korea's history, however. Brilliant.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #128)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:37 PM

132. The Russians took ALL of Berlin to end the war. There was no "West Berlin" yet. Jeeze.

The Allied command agreed to allow Russia to do it to get revenge on Hitler; halting the US offensive toward Berlin. Read up on it.
And i post only facts; something everyone should do.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #126)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:45 PM

134. Facts are facts, you dont have to like them. Luckily, only a few here cant see the forest...

But enjoy watching VZ people starve to death, get water out of ditches, etc, while fat ass Maduro & his henchmen eat and drink like the hogs they are. But hogs eventually get slaughtered.
You'll be on the losing end of history. Apparently something you're used to, judging from the other losers you support. Sad!

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #115)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 08:41 PM

118. N Korea started the war and then got their butts kicked by UN forces. nt

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #118)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 08:51 PM

121. There was no 'North' Korea until the US divided the country. n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #121)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:22 PM

129. You mean the Allied forces after WWII.

At the Cairo Conference on November 22, 1943, the US, UK, and China agreed that "in due course Korea shall become free and independent";[223][224] at a later meeting in Yalta in February 1945, the Allies agreed to establish a four-power trusteeship over Korea.[225] On August 14, 1945, Soviet forces entered Korea by amphibious landings, enabling them to secure control in the north. Japan surrendered to the Allied Forces on August 15, 1945.

The unconditional surrender of Japan, combined with fundamental shifts in global politics and ideology, led to the division of Korea into two occupation zones, effectively starting on September 8, 1945. The United States administered the southern half of the peninsula and the Soviet Union took over the area north of the 38th parallel. The Provisional Government was ignored, mainly due to American belief that it was too aligned with the communists.[226] This division was meant to be temporary and was intended to return a unified Korea back to its people after the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and Republic of China could arrange a single government.

In December 1945, a conference convened in Moscow to discuss the future of Korea.[227] A 5-year trusteeship was discussed, and a joint Soviet-American commission was established. The commission met intermittently in Seoul but members deadlocked over the issue of establishing a national government. In September 1947, with no solution in sight, the United States submitted the Korean question to the United Nations General Assembly. On December 12, 1948, the General Assembly of the United Nations recognised the Republic of Korea as the sole legal government of Korea.[228]

In June 25, 1950, the Korean War broke out when North Korea breached the 38th parallel line to invade the South, ending any hope of a peaceful reunification for the time being. After the war, the 1954 Geneva conference failed to adopt a solution for a unified Korea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Korea#Division_and_Korean_War_(1945%E2%80%931953)

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #129)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:33 PM

130. The US was THE world power following WWII. You're informed enough to know this.

"Allied Forces" didn't do shit without direction from Washington.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #130)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:35 PM

131. The USSR would beg to differ. nt

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #131)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:44 PM

133. They might, but they would be wrong.

The US controlled half of the world's financial and material resources, possessed most of its industrial capacity, and was the only country with nuclear weapons. The USSR was devoted primarily to rebuilding it's devastated union, as was the rest of Europe.

No, the US was calling the shots, end of story.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #133)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:47 PM

136. The US didn't call any shots for Stalin. The Cold War was already in progress. nt

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #136)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:50 PM

137. You're struggling. That doesn't even make sense.

The CIA admitted years ago, that the 'threat' from the Soviet Union, was mostly fabrication.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #137)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:54 PM

140. lol, yes the military that beat the Germans on the Eastern front was no threat?

The Warsaw Pact just a social club?
And Russia had the bomb by 1949.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #140)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 11:05 PM

144. Correct. n/t

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #144)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 08:11 AM

157. Ignorance is the single greatest tool of oppression.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #144)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 03:16 PM

160. lol, so wrong.

The Soviet Army remained the largest active army in the world from 1945 to 1991 with as many as 50,000 tanks and their nuclear stockpile passed the US one in the 1970's.

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Response to ansible (Reply #89)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 07:23 PM

98. It gets even better.

 



Its good to be the king!



Look out! Max Blumenthal will insist that this garbage eater is a CIA plant!

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 07:51 AM

101. So, Guaido called for massive demonstrations yesterday, Tuesday at 15:00,

all over the country. Reuters today reports:

... Guaido joined a series of small opposition demonstrations around Caracas on Tuesday afternoon to protest the blackout, where he mocked the prosecutor’s investigation...

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-venezuela-politics/venezuela-blaming-u-s-for-six-day-blackout-orders-diplomats-to-leave-idUKKBN1QT25U

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #101)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 01:16 PM

103. Its only a matter of time before Guaido "throws himself out of a 10th floor window" of SEBIN HQ

 

That kind of guilt (being against the Patria and Chavismo!) weighs heavy on those arrested by Maduro. It becomes so overwhelming that they would rather plunge to their guilt filled death that breath another minute. After they sign their confession, of course.

It's the price a person has to pay, I suppose. For Revolution.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #103)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:55 PM

141. I hope for the best for your friends and family there. Its awful how Maduro is killing the country.

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Response to oldsoftie (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 07:25 PM

114. The Chavistas are every bit as delusional...

 

As the Trumpsters. It’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #114)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 08:50 PM

120. I don't understand them

A dictator is a dictator no matter what political philosophy they claim.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #120)

Wed Mar 13, 2019, 10:53 PM

138. But look up thread at the few apologists who go to ANY LENGTH to defend him. Sad, but predictable.

At least there are many posting here who are well educated in the facts of whats really going on in VZ. They post lengthy facts and history, but its ignored just to show fealty to the losing dictator who WILL fall at some time. Another in a long line of failures.

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Response to oldsoftie (Reply #138)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:37 AM

146. To them, its about the Revolution.

 

The Revolution is what is important. They will go on, ad nauseum, quoting Lenin and Marx and Trotsky and Che and Mao... all the while ignoring the very cries of the starving and suffering. And God forbid you disagree with them.

To the Revolutionary, these sorts of things need to be ignored. The end result is what matters.

"Root out the counterrevolutionaries without mercy, lock up suspicious characters in concentration camps... Shirkers will be shot, regardless of past service." -- Statement of 1918, as quoted in Trotsky: The Eternal Revolutionary (1996)

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #146)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 01:25 AM

151. Your 'arguement'

in favor of your government's coercive, self-serving interventionism in vulnerable, marginalized nations like Venezuela, is essentially, 'You communist!!'.

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #151)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 07:10 AM

154. Maybe you ought to sit in on a neighborhood communal council meeting and listen to them?

 

I have. It was quite enlightening. "Lenin said" this. "Marx said" that. Trotsky, Mao and even STALIN joined a parade of quotes, always ending with Chavez and Bolivar, their sainted patron.

But I somehow doubt that will happen. Life is easy on your side of the keyboard?

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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #151)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 12:26 PM

159. Both Trump and Maduro can be bad guys.

 

And in fact, both are.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #146)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 06:37 PM

162. I guess it is easy to turn away food when it isn't Maduro' s fat ass starving

That is the really telling event in the whole debacle, turning away food saying "Venezuela is not a nation of beggars", he ignored those starving people simply to salve his pride. His henchmen have their families stashed in the US so they don't have to deal with the things the victims of their fucked up.actions have to. I would rreally like to hear someone justify these actions.

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