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Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:08 PM

More efficient light bulbs? Trump administration would rather not

Source: Quartz


By Zoë Schlanger 15 minutes ago

The Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. Set to take effect in one year, the rule would change what type of bulbs could be sold in the US, and it would save more energy than any efficiency standard in Department of Energy history, according to E&E News.

Now a proposal to roll it back comes after vocal pushback from the industry that would have to comply with it. In short, Big Lightbulb sued.

The Obama-era rule—finalized on the day before Donald Trump took office—expanded the reach of an earlier standard, so that it would require virtually all light bulbs to meet a level of energy efficiency (45 lumens per watt) that incandescent and halogen bulbs in their current form simply can’t meet. That leaves compact fluorescents and LEDs, but because compact fluorescent bulbs come with a risk of mercury contamination, the industry is already moving away from those. So as a recent newsletter of the Association of Energy Services Professionals put it, the new standards effectively “accelerate a transition to light emitting diode (LED) light bulbs already underway.”

On January 1, 2020, if the rule goes into effect as planned, it will be illegal to sell most incandescent and halogen bulbs in the US, and they’ll be replaced on store shelves with LEDs.

Read more: https://qz.com/1546400/more-efficient-light-bulbs-trump-administration-would-rather-not/

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Reply More efficient light bulbs? Trump administration would rather not (Original post)
Judi Lynn Feb 8 OP
Rorey Feb 8 #1
k8conant Feb 8 #3
myohmy2 Feb 8 #8
DBoon Feb 8 #10
SCantiGOP Feb 9 #40
Archae Feb 8 #22
Bengus81 Feb 9 #33
NutmegYankee Feb 9 #39
El Mimbreno Feb 9 #42
TexasBushwhacker Feb 8 #2
Rorey Feb 8 #4
docgee Feb 8 #6
Norbert Feb 9 #31
Bengus81 Feb 9 #34
TexasBushwhacker Feb 9 #43
Locrian Feb 8 #5
LakeSuperiorView Feb 8 #9
not fooled Feb 8 #16
Scruffy1 Feb 8 #23
forgotmylogin Feb 8 #13
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 9 #46
SWBTATTReg Feb 8 #7
rurallib Feb 8 #12
SWBTATTReg Feb 8 #15
LineLineLineLineReply !
rurallib Feb 8 #18
JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 8 #20
RockRaven Feb 8 #11
Bengus81 Feb 9 #35
Rorey Feb 9 #36
mudpuddle Feb 8 #14
NurseJackie Feb 8 #17
BumRushDaShow Feb 8 #25
MurrayDelph Feb 8 #19
groundloop Feb 8 #21
David__77 Feb 8 #24
GulfCoast66 Feb 8 #26
pangaia Feb 8 #27
wishstar Feb 8 #28
Duppers Feb 9 #30
Takket Feb 8 #29
Norbert Feb 9 #32
Blues Heron Feb 9 #37
Iterate Feb 9 #44
Blues Heron Feb 9 #45
Firestorm49 Feb 9 #38
jcgoldie Feb 9 #41

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:13 PM

1. I'm happy to report

Every lightbulb in my house is an LED, except maybe the refrigerator and oven bulbs.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:16 PM

3. I still have a few CFLs.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:31 PM

8. same here...

...why would anyone want to use those energy-gluttonous electric-heater light bulbs today?

…is there any purpose for incandescent bulbs that can't be met with LEDs?

...the only place that I find incandescent bulbs desirable are automobile headlights...

...an approaching vehicle with LED headlights sucks...

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:33 PM

10. Lava Lamps

You need enough heat to make the colored "lava" swirl

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Response to DBoon (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:17 AM

40. You can take my lava lamp

When you pry it from my cold, dead eyeballs that were staring at it.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 06:15 PM

22. Same here, and add to that my lava lamp.

The rest are LED's.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 09:13 AM

33. I'm about there,a few left in very low use closet lights that haven't burnt out.....

And then any extra bulbs I have I've slowly used up in my garage door opener. Refrigerator will have to have an incandescent. I still have outdoor incad Christmas lights that are on for about four hours per night for a few weeks in Dec.

Still like the way they look although LED has come a long way in those colored bulbs and the price has come down. But boy....do those old time lights use electricity! I used to leave them on through New Years Eve but I pull the plug the day after Christmas.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:13 AM

39. Almost there. I still use T5 bulbs for seed starting.

In fact some of my seedling fixtures consume 216 Watts! But I get some really healthy seedlings for the garden.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #39)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:44 AM

42. grow light panels

Couple of years ago my wife found 12" square LED grow light panels on ebay. Think they were about $15 at the time. Really give the vegs a head start.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:15 PM

2. The thing is, even with their higher costs LED bulbs save you money

They last so much longer and use less electricity. Of course, electric utilities really don't want us to use less electricity, because that's how they make their money. That's why they are fighting solar too.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:21 PM

4. For a little while they were 97 cents a box

at Walmart (I know, I know....) for a 4 pack of GE 60 watt LED bulbs. I think I must have bought at least 25 boxes and gave them to tenants and my family. I have no idea why they were such a ridiculously low price, but I took advantage and didn't ask questions.

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Response to Rorey (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:29 PM

6. IKEA has them rather inexpensive as well.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 08:22 AM

31. Replaced a floodlight with the LED version that required a 20 ft ladder to change it.

Love the fact that, with our usage, it will be at least 20 years until we change it again.

The dumb shit will undue everything that the black president has done. What a jealous ass hole.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 09:23 AM

34. Here in Kansas the KCC ALLOWED Westar to NAIL homeowners using solar with a FEE

Never mind that Westar themselves uses solar along with a lot of wind generation,they want to fine people who use panels on their homes. So far their getting away with it but I see a lawsuit coming. They claim your abusing them (sniff,sniff) by making them provide you electricity yet then using solar to not use their electricity.

Never mind the fact that most with panels are NOT off the grid,their just reducing their usage and saving Utility companies from having to build another zillion $$$ gas fired plant to meet demand. What their doing should be 100% illegal unless their going to fine people for using LED bulbs.



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Response to Bengus81 (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:54 AM

43. Yeah, that really chaps my hide

The great thing about solar is that it's producing the most electricity when demand is highest - during the day, during the heat of summer. The electrical companies should be THRILLED that they can delay building new power plants for the sole purpose of peak demand.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:27 PM

5. LEDs are great

It's the dimmers that tend to suck and are $$$. And the incandescent dimmers don't work well with LEDs.
Still worth it to change over - plus a lot less heat

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Response to Locrian (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:32 PM

9. In my view, LED bulbs are pre-dimmed...

 

No dimmers required. But then, that's my aging eyes talking. CFLs were terrible in dealing with colder temps in winter here.

I like LEDs, just wish they made them brighter.

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Response to LakeSuperiorView (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:44 PM

16. There are 100-watt equivalent LEDs

that are quite bright, e.g. on Amazon (yeah, I know, but Bezos did just monkeywrench cheeto and co's. latest crooked endeavor).

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Response to not fooled (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 06:18 PM

23. I converted my shop to LED worklights.

It's a much better light and I can see things better with my old eye. Lumens do not tell the whole story. They actually have a lower lumen rating, but they work a lot better than the fluorescent T8. I think it's because a lot of the "lumens" in some bublbs are not in a useful spectrum.

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Response to Locrian (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:37 PM

13. I know they're more expensive...

but you can get LEDs that control and dim via a phone app. I have an LED hallway light programmed to turn on at dusk and off at sunrise.

You can also get color LEDs to make cool mood lighting!

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Response to Locrian (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 03:06 PM

46. You have to use good quality leds I think.

We’ve installed hundreds of Cree brand recessed retrofit lights. Every time we tried the off brand we get buzzing.

We did our whole house at $40 bucks a pop. Now the Crees are down to $13 bucks. So it doesn’t even make sense to go off brand. I think the same goes for the individual bulbs.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:30 PM

7. Too late. Can't go back once everyone has found the benefits of having lightbulbs that ...

work cheaper and just as good or better than the older style light bulbs. The only reason they're doing this (rump admin.) is because Obama and/or his admin. was involved w/ this. And that's it, the only reason. rump will go down in history as the worse so called president ever, being that almost every decision that he's stumbled into is that of revenge and pettiness.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:36 PM

12. Exactly - what's the benefit of being the last buggy whip dealer?

who would want to carry an item few will buy?

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Response to rurallib (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:41 PM

15. The only ones I can think of are either members of a sex club or leather club. Ha ha. Just a ...

little humor here. Take care.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:47 PM

18. !

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:28 PM

20. There are still makers of race horse crops.

For that "Triple Crown" experience.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:36 PM

11. Even ignoring the energy cost savings AND absent government regulations, LEDs are going to elbow out

incandescents anyway. Why? Because of their life-span. An LED light bulb (say a 60W or 100W incandescent equivalent) costs about 5 times as much as their respective incandescent, but lasts 50 times as long. So in the long run a 10-fold savings in bulb costs.

So Trump can kiss the ass of "Big Lightbulb" or the "But Freedom" FOXNews viewers with this move (I recall some of my idiot relatives having conniptions over "Obama telling them what lightbulbs to buy, dammit" ); consumers still won't go back to those crappy, quick-to-burnout bulbs.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 09:30 AM

35. I write the date on many of them I install.........

I have two on my outdoor garage lights that are on their fifth year and use almost no electricity (18W) compared to the old Edison bulbs,120/200W for two. And....I was constantly replacing the old ones because of the vibration the garage door would put on that thin filament when it went up and down. I don't think most of the incads burnt out,the filament would break.

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Response to Bengus81 (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:02 AM

36. That is a great idea!

I'm learning so much on this thread!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:37 PM

14. I cannot justify replacing incandescent bulbs anymore.

LED's last so much longer in my shop that the labor cost of replacing the incandescent bulbs every time they burn out justifies the higher price of the LED's. Also the LED's are much brighter.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:46 PM

17. I can't use LED bulbs in my oven...

I can't use LED bulbs in my oven... so I hope the incandescent bulbs will still be available for that. (I guess ovens of the future will be illuminated by an LED bulb that sits in a safe (cool) location and aims light through tube with 45-degree angled mirrors)

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 06:43 PM

25. I thought bulbs 25W and below

(like appliance ones and some that go in chandeliers, etc) had been exempt from the original requirements.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:15 PM

19. I'm glad to get rid of CFLs

They were more expensive, had a lousy lifespan, and as they got old, it would take forever to reach peak brightness.

I used to have one CFL floodlight in my bathroom, as by the time it was bright-enough to read by, it was too late.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:33 PM

21. I actually have a use for incandescents.... but it's for making heat, not light

I've done quite a lot of fiberglass work over the years and a reflector type shop lamp with a 60 watt incandescent bulb put off just the right amount of heat to help speed along the cure of small parts.

As far as making light, LEDs rule. Now that dimmers are available that actually work with them I have zero complaints, every light in my house is now an LED.

And oh yeah...... Tiny and his industry slaves are idiots.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 06:32 PM

24. Too late - the ship has sailed.

The market already transformed in anticipation of the standard kicking in. And utility ratepayer-funded incentive programs have facilitated this.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 06:48 PM

26. This may be the first thing in 2 years I don't absolutely hate out of this administration.

Most of my house is LED and will soon be 100% converted. They are superior for lighting in every way and are way more cost effective.

But incandescents have their place, mainly when heat is what you need. For incubators or keep covered plants from freezing there is no beating them.

No one made buggy whips illegal. They were just not need by many people. But some people still use them if they have a buggy.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 06:58 PM

27. While I fully support saving energy, I so far have not found an LED bulb that gives the warmth

of an incandescent bulb.

Am I missing something?

probably so...

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 07:00 PM

28. Dollar Tree has been selling LED's for $1 for a 2 pack (I bought the 100w equivalents)

I have been using them above my kitchen sink and other high use locations where they have held up great so far with instant soft brightness. Last year Duke Energy also had a special mail order deal where they were only $2 a bulb.

I kept some incandescents just for a couple of outside motion lights that don't get used much because they are supposed to be better in cold temps and I have a couple of ceiling lights that the LED bulbs are too big for and small CFL's fit better.

We replaced all of our 4 shop lights (as their fluorescent tubes went out) with LED fixtures last year and love them too.

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Response to wishstar (Reply #28)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 02:00 AM

30. Thanks for that TIP! 💡

I need bulbs and will ck them out.



❤ for ya.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 10:33 PM

29. huh? efficient lighting regulations went into effect back in 2012

You can't even hardly find any incandescent bulbs for sale anymore. Go to your local Target or Home Depot and I doubt any more than 1% of the bulbs for sale are incandescent.

There is no market for them anymore. Manufacturers have already switched over. The "roll back" is meaningless. It is like telling the auto industry they don't have to build cars with crumple zones anymore. That's nice... but they aren't going to retool all their plants at the cost of millions of dollars just to build something unneeded and unwanted by the consumer.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 08:38 AM

32. Stores will be slow to react to the tRump rollback

It starts on the first day of an election year. With any luck he will be pink slipped or convicted and this rollback will be repealed.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:02 AM

37. Hate the piercing LED security lights

you know the ones - bright as a welders torch - that are popping up everywhere, always unshaded. When did we decide lampshades were passé?

The interior LEDs are nice though, but are there any real-world stats on longevity? CFLs were supposed to last 10 years too, but they didn't in practice. I would think some degree of planned obsolesence would be baked in by the bulb makers.

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Response to Blues Heron (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 11:58 AM

44. That's a lighting design problem, not an LED problem.

I switched completely 12 years ago and have seen the minor problems ironed out over time.

The problems manufacturers and users are dealing with now are correct design and lamp selection, phosphor color consistency, output stability over time, and filling out the selection of all less common lamp sizes and shapes.

Buyers need time to learn how to select them, because it's more than a matter of just picking wattage and shape -color temperature and profile, lumen output, light beam pattern, and dimability are the new variables.

Longevity is a tricky thing to measure. Designs are constantly changing. You can get longer life with lower output and over designed heat-sinks. Testing by the EU two years ago showed about 25% failure between 6,000 and 10,000 hours. Ignore outrageous claims. Is 10,000 hours not good enough? That's five years for a light that's heavily used.

And there is no baked-in obsolescence, only a set of design and manufacturing trade-offs.

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Response to Iterate (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 12:18 PM

45. True, a lot of this comes down to personal behavior

If there's twice as many bulbs out there at half the wattage, we're back where we started. Let's not eat up our efficiency gains by lighting up our neighborhoods to look like prison yards.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:05 AM

38. Money and private business over the common good of the country. Oh so Republican.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 10:33 AM

41. Pretty incredible

That the Trump Administration really does choose the side of evil and corruption in EVERY SINGLE CIRCUMSTANCE.

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