Priest criticized teenager who killed himself at funeral
Source: Associated Press
Updated 7:44 pm CST, Friday, December 14, 2018
TEMPERANCE, Mich. (AP) — The Catholic Archdiocese of Detroit says it regrets that a priest officiating at a teen's funeral questioned whether he would get to heaven after killing himself.
Maison Hullibarger's father tells the Detroit Free Press that he asked the priest to stop talking during the Dec. 8 funeral Mass. But Jeff Hullibarger says the Rev. Don LaCuesta continued giving a critical sermon at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church in Temperance.
Hullibarger says some mourners left the church crying.
The archdiocese released a statement Thursday saying it's sorry that an "unbearable situation was made even more difficult." The archdiocese says LaCuesta will not preach at funerals "for the foreseeable future."
Read more: https://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Priest-criticized-teenager-who-killed-himself-at-13468083.php
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Gore1FL
(22,335 posts)My friend and his mother are Lutheran (LCMS). His father was Jewish.
The presiding Lutheran Pastor saw fit to consider whether there was enough Christianity near him (probably knew some of the songs and such) to get him into heaven despite his being Jewish.
He probably had the best of intentions, but it was insane.
marble falls
(64,140 posts)to aich-eee-double-hockeysticks and that dinosaur bones were bunk in fourth grade.
Raine
(30,730 posts)it was the other branch of the Lutheran church I think at that time it was ACL. ACL was liberal, we had science and did all kinds of experiments, took field trips to the science museum in Los Angeles etc.
marble falls
(64,140 posts)
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,932 posts)lie to us, would they??
marble falls
(64,140 posts)they'll come in handy.
Raine
(30,730 posts)it was the liberal branch of the Lutheran church, they would never have allowed that kind of bigotry, disgusting! 
dalton99a
(87,554 posts)47of74
(18,470 posts)Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)to pay for the Crusades.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)"questioned"
Is the Catholic faith/religion so weak that it has no solid position on the issue?
Whether it is yay or nay, say it definitively.
thesquanderer
(12,538 posts)I suspect the priest made himself quite clear.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)Possible... But the RCC has left in in limbo.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)Theologians were hard pressed to find a way out of the dilemma that people, including innocent babies, could not enter heaven is they were not baptized. This nonsense can be traced to what many considered as heresy being propagated by especially Augustine and Jerome. Many opposed their radical views such as predestination and original sin. It is ironic that many of the Protestant Reformation's leading theologians based their opposition based primarily on the writing of some of the most radical of the early third century church leaders as a reaction to the Catholic leadership's moral decline.
Christianity's infatuation with the inherent evilness of human sexuality, except for strictly the propagation of the race, can be traced to the efforts of these same pair of theologians. They actually connected the doctrine of original and its manner of transference to innocent children with the sexual climax which they termed as concupiscence. They were not without opposition, but their concepts did prevail. Most people don't realize the doctrine of original sin and the need for apologetic teaching such as limbo, were never part of the beliefs of the Jewish theologians. They have have consistently determined that sin is something you commit not something that is inherited. I didn't mean to start a theological discussion, but these facts have bearing on the present situation. The death of the young boy must be regarded as tragic and not used to bolster asinine heretical teachings. People who make themselves Christian authorities should ask the simple question. What would Jesus do? I think they will find the answer to very simple.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)That's Purgatory. I mean limbo as a vague, unspecified doctrine.
I understand Purgatory to be a way station on the way to Heaven.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)But the position would be that he literally murdered himself, thus Hell a possibility.
The question comes in if the sin was mortal. For a sin to be mortal you must 1) know it is a sin 2)commit it willingly and freely.
We would not know if he was depressed, on drugs, etc. nor do we know if he knew it was a sin.
Basically only God would know the state of his mind and condition of his heart.
Does that help?
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)It's ok either way.
The Church does not seem to have a definitive position in explaining their way out of this.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I just told you the Doctrine. Even the Pope would say only God knows who is in Hell.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)That's my point.
The Church is playing public relations.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)A priest would even say they assume Hitler is in Hell but can't be sure. That's doctrine.
What the priest did was fucked up, but what were you looking for him to say?
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)I see you are arguing just for the sake of arguing.
"but what were you looking for him to say?"
It's beyond the priest now.
It's what the Church has to say.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)It was a simple enough question. What were you looking for?
You're being cryptic on purpose because you have no idea what you are talking about. "It's what the Church has to say" WTF does that mean?
flying rabbit
(4,830 posts)What is the lack of sensitivity compared to God's will? 
rickyhall
(5,014 posts)And the rest her life her mother told her she was going to Hell for it
Catholics have always taught suicides go to Hell
milestogo
(20,003 posts)Kids repeat what they've heard from authority figures.
I guess Catholics teach that non-Catholics are going to hell.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Yes, that is taught.
But for God, all things are possible is the other part.
Sgent
(5,858 posts)abondoned at Vatican II -- although just because the church changed its teaching doesn't mean the individual parishoers changed their understanding.
Oneironaut
(5,925 posts)Murder 50 people, repent? You’re ok - go to heaven
Kill yourself from mental illness - eternal torture
The Christian God is a monster. He’s even worse than Satan.
defacto7
(13,990 posts)who enable such ideas. One good read through the history of philosophy lays out how and why humans have set such thinking in motion. The book "Doubt" by Jennifer Michael Hecht is a good balanced read on the subject.
Oneironaut
(5,925 posts)It isn’t just the people, imo. It’s the belief system that people hide behind. It is perpetuated in our culture, and allows it’s followers to justify backwards beliefs.
defacto7
(13,990 posts)I can't separate the people, who have the only mechanism to perpetuate belief or gods, from those systems, that mechanism being their brain. People think and ponder and choose. The systems separated from the person are the system's holy texts written by other people. The books don't ponder, but people and those who they select as teachers do. If people are caught in a system by their culture, background or just exposure, it's still the human that continues the incivility in person and through the intent of the historical texts or visions of their choosing. The only remedy that I can see is fact based education.
This is from the viewpoint of a non-believer. If one believes in a deity then of course that person can marginally blame the deity and its proclamations.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)they did eventually find one..old semi retired...no connection to the family
he couldn't remember the kids name.......
but he muddled thru and was of some comfort
a funeral is more for the living than the dead.....
has to be priest school 101
guess he slept thru that class
JudyM
(29,540 posts)She was very religious and seemed to be wanting to kindly offer me hope for the ultimate disposition of my soul. I picked my jaw up off the floor and lost interest in the relationship. How do some otherwise intelligent people live so deeply in that reality that they don’t realize their certain ‘knowledge’ is based on pure supposition?!
I had known her for a couple of years, we had fun together and this was what was lurking in her mind?! 
You phrased that so beautifully and succinctly that I am saving your quote.
And remember, OF COURSE we can join in the happy Christmas celebrations, because Xmas is for everyone (I find at least one or two people tell me that every year)!
JudyM
(29,540 posts)And they feel it is their responsibility (to wit, privilege) to share the gospel (small g).
This priest no doubt felt both superior and entrusted with a holy responsibility to share what he was certain is the hard truth. His selfish ignorance of the actual big picture fueled by pomposity may have caused lifelong psychic pain for the family.
(Thanks for the compliment, wish we didn’t need to think about these things... let’s hope for better from people in the future.)
Duppers
(28,307 posts)And I agree with PennyK above, you said it beautifully.
JudyM
(29,540 posts)
vlyons
(10,252 posts)that some people are totally clueless. In Buddhism, we have this concept, called "right speech." It means that if you can't say something that is beneficial and helpful, don't say anything at all. If their ideology didn't support the belief that a suicide gets to heaven, the least they could have said was the hope that he would rest in peace. That he was at last free of the problems and suffering that burdened him in life were now over.
Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.
Duppers
(28,307 posts)Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)Our conscience does not die. The universe does not create life, life creates the universe. Do I really understand all of this or even most of this, of course not. I am not a biologist and a physicist which you must be both to begin to understand. Besides, it beats dying.
Farmer-Rick
(11,702 posts)So, who was around to watch the big bang?
The universe created an intelligent creature to understand it. Will all that intelligence just go poof in the end? I'm not saying there is a god. I'm just saying that consciousness is somehow tied up with time.
Crash2Parties
(6,017 posts)When I was a child the Church taught that suicide was worse than murder.
Families who had a suicide were shamed into not having a Catholic funeral.
No service, no closure. Just shame.
The Church's treatment of bullying, despair and mental illnesses is right up there with their denial of heliocentricity, or the belief that epilepsy is caused by demonic possession.
They are afraid to admit that in the face of actual knowledge, their Canon can be fallible.
Jedi Guy
(3,328 posts)I was raised in a Protestant household, and we were taught that modern medicine is legit, and that illness isn't caused by demonic possession or spiritual malaise and such. I'd actually be shocked to learn that Catholic doctrine is that epilepsy and similar conditions are caused by possession. Or that they still believe the Earth is the center of the universe, for that matter...
I know that the Church does believe that demonic possession is a real thing, but my understanding is that they generally consider it to be a last resort after possible medical conditions have been eliminated as a cause. I was under the impression that before the Church would grant an exorcism, it must be demonstrated that the sufferer has seen medical professionals and that disease/illness has been ruled out.
Crash2Parties
(6,017 posts)I intended those as historic examples.
Jedi Guy
(3,328 posts)I was legit scared there for a moment that they actually taught and believed those things in the 21st century.
Also, didn't the Pope (one of them, anyway) acknowledge that evolution is factual, but the process is/was guided by God? If so, I suppose that's progress of a sort.
Totally Tunsie
(10,887 posts)I highly doubt this teenager killed himself at the funeral.
What has happened to our language?
onenote
(45,014 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)That he killed himself at the funeral.
Jedi Guy
(3,328 posts)Jeez, why would you say something like that to someone's grieving family? Is it not enough that they lost a loved one?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It sounds like the teenager killed himself AT a funeral.
May not be the most elegant but the correct way would be at funeral first, as in
Priest at funeral [criticizes] teenager who committed suicide
Still not happy about criticizes.
(copyediting neurotic, sorry)
rampartc
(5,835 posts)and may not be buried in holy ground.
on the other hand, funerals are to comfort the living, and hardly a time for "fire and brimstone."
https://bulldogcatholic.org/the-church-and-suicide/
"Catholics must take an absolute stand against every form of suicide. Suicide is “contrary to the love of God”. It is truly evil. Now, please understand me here. In saying that suicide is evil, I am not saying that a person is evil. Catholics believe that each human person is intrinsically good. But we can choose to do evil actions. There are some actions which are evil in and of themselves, regardless of motivation or circumstance. Of these, suicide is one."
akraven
(1,975 posts)Especially "religious" ones just don't understand compassion or humanity.