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Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:44 PM

All the presidents at the Bush funeral service together recited this core prayer. Except one.

Source: Washington Post

By Michelle Boorstein December 5 at 10:00 PM

The Apostles' Creed is one of the prayers most core to Christianity. It states in a few lines the basic narrative of Jesusís life, is the statement of faith in one God and is said daily by Christians across the globe.

On Wednesday, one Christian didnít say it. And Twitter noticed.

Video from the funeral of George H.W. Bush showed a front row of presidents at Washington National Cathedral, standing and reciting it along with the program, as the voice of Episcopal Bishop Michael Curry boomed through the speakers to the thousands of mourners. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and their wives glanced up and down from the programs they held in front of them and spoke the prayer, along with everyone else visible in the video. The program, as is typical, calls for the Creed to be said in unison.

President Trump stood, with his hands folded in front of him, waist-high, the program in his left hand, his lips not moving. Melania Trump also did not speak, nor did she hold a program.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2018/12/05/all-presidents-bush-funeral-service-together-recited-this-core-prayer-except-trump/?utm_term=.f00198e54840

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Reply All the presidents at the Bush funeral service together recited this core prayer. Except one. (Original post)
Judi Lynn Dec 5 OP
Haggis for Breakfast Dec 5 #1
DesertRat Dec 5 #22
sheshe2 Dec 5 #26
bdamomma Thursday #56
PSPS Thursday #27
dalton99a Dec 5 #2
violetpastille Dec 5 #13
dalton99a Dec 5 #16
sandensea Thursday #37
DeminPennswoods Thursday #40
Wuddles440 Thursday #65
Stuart G Dec 5 #3
LakeSuperiorView Dec 5 #5
DesertRat Dec 5 #23
Haggis for Breakfast Dec 5 #24
47of74 Thursday #28
Haggis for Breakfast Thursday #30
lamp_shade Thursday #33
47of74 Thursday #52
lamp_shade Thursday #71
Retrograde Thursday #68
lamp_shade Thursday #72
Haggis for Breakfast Thursday #76
Haggis for Breakfast Thursday #74
sarisataka Thursday #49
47of74 Thursday #51
Haggis for Breakfast Thursday #75
politicaljunkie41910 Thursday #43
Drahthaardogs Thursday #35
Kingofalldems Thursday #61
RobinA Thursday #63
amcgrath Dec 5 #4
fierywoman Dec 5 #10
George II Dec 5 #6
radical noodle Thursday #29
SergeStorms Thursday #34
bdamomma Thursday #57
SergeStorms Thursday #70
George II Thursday #39
scarytomcat Thursday #42
Tracer Thursday #45
George II Thursday #47
badhair77 Thursday #78
George II Thursday #79
radical noodle Thursday #46
scarytomcat Thursday #55
sarisataka Thursday #48
milestogo Dec 5 #7
Haggis for Breakfast Dec 5 #25
bdamomma Thursday #58
RockRaven Dec 5 #8
shenmue Dec 5 #11
violetpastille Dec 5 #21
csziggy Thursday #31
Stuart G Dec 5 #18
Hortensis Thursday #54
RobinA Thursday #64
LuvNewcastle Friday #80
Stuart G Dec 5 #9
fierywoman Dec 5 #12
Dave Starsky Thursday #44
SummerSnow Dec 5 #14
KWR65 Dec 5 #15
truthisfreedom Dec 5 #17
cilla4progress Dec 5 #19
Dave Starsky Thursday #50
iluvtennis Dec 5 #20
murielm99 Thursday #32
Bob Loblaw Thursday #36
Whiskeytide Thursday #38
MissMillie Thursday #41
moriah Thursday #62
MissMillie Thursday #67
Jrsygrl96 Thursday #53
MicaelS Thursday #59
RussBLib Thursday #60
LakeSuperiorView Thursday #66
Retrograde Thursday #69
BlueTsunami2018 Thursday #73
JoeOtterbein Thursday #77

Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:48 PM

1. Can't wait to see how the religious right twists this one.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:36 PM

22. I checked Discussionist

The trump apologists over there are saying that it's no big deal.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:50 PM

26. Of course they did.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:42 AM

56. no big deal huh?

boy, they continue to see no wrong with this jerk.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:12 AM

27. They just pull the lever on the mulligan-o-mat

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:49 PM

2. He was thinking "What the hell is the Apostles' Creed?"

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:04 PM

13. Apollo Creed?

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Response to violetpastille (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:09 PM

16. "Black guy worked for me. Very tough, very rough"

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 06:39 AM

37. +1

I shouldn't; but I had a LOL. I can picture him saying the very thing as I read that.

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Response to violetpastille (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 07:20 AM

40. LOL!

good one

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Response to violetpastille (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:12 PM

65. Funny for the Day!!!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:50 PM

3. Is there a link to the exact words of the prayer? I am not familiar with it..thank you for posting.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:53 PM

5. Google knows darn near everything.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Apostles%27+Creed&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

Like everything, there are multiple versions/translations. Here's one.

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

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Response to LakeSuperiorView (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:38 PM

23. Melania says she's a Catholic

The Apostles' Creed is recited at Catholic mass. She should know it by heart. I wonder why she stayed silent too.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:47 PM

24. Good question.

Every Catholic knows this without needing to consult a pamphlet.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:13 AM

28. Actually they probably know the Nicene Creed by heart.

A good number of Catholics probably don't know the Apostles Creed by heart because that particular prayer isn't said as often as the Nicene Creed is.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:57 AM

30. I remember both of them being said at every single Mass.

Now, maybe that was just my parish . . .

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:02 AM

33. Mine too. Before 1964 it was said in Latin and I can still

sing, in gregorian chant style, the first couple of phrases. Boy am I old.

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Response to lamp_shade (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:52 AM

52. Credo in unum deum...

...Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium, Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 07:50 PM

71. Here ya go.....

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Response to lamp_shade (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:51 PM

68. So can I

I don't know it in English - I have to think of the Latin and translate as I go.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #68)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 07:51 PM

72. See my Post #71.... and enjoy.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #68)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:35 PM

76. I feel older than dirt now.

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Response to lamp_shade (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:33 PM

74. You and me both !

I remember catechism lessons that went on forever. Nuns trying to teach Latin to a bunch of squiggling, impatient little kids. Then, after years of struggling to get it all down, the Mass was put into English after Vatican Council II. My Gran never recovered from that. She insisted on going to a Catholic Church that kept one Mass in Latin for years.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:46 AM

49. Why would you say both

At the same mass? That would be very redundant

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:51 AM

51. People don't.

At least as far as I know people don't do that. It's usually the Nicene Creed at Mass and the Apostolic Creed at other services. They wouldn't say both in the same service because yes, that would be redundant.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:34 PM

75. Very old traditional church.

One came at the beginning, the other in the middle. And we said it in Latin.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:25 AM

43. Every Catholic should know it by heart. It's recited at every Mass and once you know it; you know

it always. You might not know it by name; (I knew it as the Apostles Creed) and even now at age 60 and having attended a non-denominational Church Service for the past 30 years, I knew it immediately while watching Bush's funeral service having recited it weekly for the first half of my life. Maybe the reason Trump doesn't know it is because it's not next to his favorite passage,
2 Corinthians.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 06:02 AM

35. It's also the start of a rosary prayer

Which is about as Catholic as you can get.

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Response to DesertRat (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:37 AM

61. I used to recite it every day at Catholic school.

Absolutely embedded into my memory.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:00 PM

63. I Was Raised

attending a Presbyterian church and I never heard that in my life until I visited a catholic church. I though it was Catholic. Although I would probably have faked it in his position. In my position I don't fake religious stuff.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:52 PM

4. Well.......

I bet Hilary couldn't have stayed silent in six languages..............

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Response to amcgrath (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:03 PM

10. (LOL!)

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:54 PM

6. Respectfully, that one Christian is NOT a Christian. I was stunned that he stood there mute.

He didn't know the words to the Apostle's Creed, just as he doesn't know the words to the Pledge of Allegiance or the National Anthem.

If he can't get paid for doing it, he's not going to memorize ANYTHING. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even know his Social Security Number or his birthday.

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Response to George II (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:18 AM

29. The words were in the program

I'm fairly sure. I thought some were reading it. Of course, that would mean trump would have to be able to read...

I haven't been to church for 30 years, but I still know the United Methodist version of the Creed by heart. There's little difference between the versions and anyone who has spent any time in a church would likely recognize it.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:18 AM

34. Trump can't read anything...

unless there is mention of HIM in the text, and Melanie was too busy, "being best" to read along. You can actually see Melanie concentrating so hard at "being best" that it looks as if her facelift scars would just burst! Now that's dedication folks.

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Response to SergeStorms (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:47 AM

57. what troubled me

Melania had her legs crossed not very respectful she could of crossed her ankles together. No class whatsoever.

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 05:44 PM

70. Let's face it...

Melanie is essentially a high-priced call girl. That's what attracted His Orange Assholiness in the first place. He's likes "professional'' women, if ya' get my drift.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 07:07 AM

39. Later last night CNN had a video of the entire front row, all were reading it from the program...

... except he and Melania, who stood there stone-faced.

I know the words but probably would have read it too.

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Response to George II (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:24 AM

42. pledging to the catholic church if you are not catholic? If catholic you best speak it loudly.

I would have remained quiet also
but I probably would have read along

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Response to scarytomcat (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:32 AM

45. When the word "catholic" is used with a lower case "c",

it means "universal".

When there is a capital "C", it refers to the Catholic church.

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Response to Tracer (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:38 AM

47. Yes, we used to recite it in our Methodist Church with the small c, our minister explained why....

....in my confirmation class.

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Response to George II (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:05 PM

78. In the 60s in my United Methodist church we changed Catholic to Christian.

Then as a Lutheran it was catholic. Of course one of our members, an older woman, called us JV Catholics in our particular church. She also said we were only late for church if we missed the offering. And if the sermon was too long she let the pastor know. Loved her.

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Response to badhair77 (Reply #78)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:25 PM

79. Hah....older congregants can be very outspoken, no matter what the denomination or church....

If you get a chance (if you're interested) watch the movie "Mass Appeal" with Jack Lemon. Very good movie with insight into how the priests see the congregation and their jobs.

If you're a Methodist, you know that you're not supposed to drink alcohol. But when I was a kid my father was one of the bazaar organizers. Every year after the annual bazaar was over, the MINISTER would pull out a bottle of wine and they'd celebrate a successful event.

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Response to scarytomcat (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:34 AM

46. The word "catholic" in the text

is not capitalized. It means the whole or universal Christian church. Not the Roman Catholic church.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:41 AM

55. I did not know that

I just didn't capitalize out of disrespect

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Response to scarytomcat (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:38 AM

48. It is important to understand

The difference between catholic and Catholic.

Even the Nicene Creed in the Catholic mass refers to the catholic church

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:57 PM

7. He expects God to pray to him.

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Response to milestogo (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:48 PM

25. In his mind, he IS god.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:49 AM

58. he probably does

jerk.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:01 PM

8. Nobody should be expected to participate in someone else's religion or their rites.

Sitting quietly while others recite their preferred ritualistic prayers is not poor behavior. I don't much care for some of the headlines I've seen which insinuate Trump ought to be saying Christian prayers just because he is POTUS and at a POTUS funeral. There is no religious test for elected office, and we should eschew informal applications of that same noxious principle.

BUT....... and it is a big but... Trump claims to be Presbyterian. In general they say this prayer. If he had a particular, explainable reason for refraining (such as it does not comport with his personal religious beliefs), it raises a question about why he claims to be a Presbyterian but refrains from doing things which Presbyterians do. Maybe he was passive-aggressively refusing to participate out of antipathy twoards the Bushes. Maybe he was pouting. Maybe he has dementia so bad he can't remember the prayer. Maybe he never knew it because he is not really Presbyterian (*cough* *cough* this one). Maybe his ego won't allow himself to be seen wearing reading glasses in public. That is what takes this out of the real of ridiculous criticism and puts it into the realm of curious, possibly boorish, behavior.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:03 PM

11. He is a Presbyterian.

He should have said it.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:20 PM

21. Is he? I thought he was all into Prosperity Gospel and Norman Vincent Peale (If anything)

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Response to violetpastille (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:15 AM

31. Wikipedia says he's Presbyterian

Trump is a Presbyterian.[57][58][59] His ancestors were Lutheran on his paternal grandfather's side in Germany[60] and Presbyterian on his mother's side in Scotland.[61] His parents married in a Manhattan Presbyterian church in 1936.[62] As a child, he attended the First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica, Queens, where he had his confirmation.[42] In the 1970s, his parents joined the Marble Collegiate Church in Manhattan,[63] part of the Reformed Church.[64] The pastor at Marble, Norman Vincent Peale, ministered to Trump's family and mentored him until Peale's death in 1993.[65][63] Trump has cited Peale and his works during interviews when asked about the role of religion in his personal life.[63] In August 2015 Trump told reporters, "I am Presbyterian Protestant. I go to Marble Collegiate Church," adding that he attends many different churches because he travels a lot.[66] The Marble Collegiate Church then issued a statement noting that Trump and his family have a "longstanding history" with the church, but that he "is not an active member".[64]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Religion


Apparently they have plenty of references to support their statements.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:12 PM

18. You just said it all..He couldn't read it, because he couldn't see it. (reading glasses)

He didn't want to go through the torture of putting those reading glasses on, and it would look bad for him to reach into his suit jacket and get those reading glasses. He couldn't read the prayer and doesn't know it...

..He isn't being mean and evil,..he can't read the prayer, because he can't see the words of the prayer, and didn't want to put on his glasses in front of everyone.. He is a 8 year old who doesn't want to look bad putting his glasses on..(or is it a 6 year old?)

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:23 AM

54. Rock, Trump's been posturing as a devout Christian, and

religious right leaders have been posturing as believing it and adopting him as their own in order to piggyback on his power.

I had to look up the Apostles' Creed myself, but it's entirely appropriate to point out this proof of the lying hypocrisy of not just these leaders but millions who also pretend to believe he's one of their own.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:10 PM

64. I Never Heard

this prayer or of this prayer growing up attending a Presbyterian church fairly regularly. I'm going to have to take a pass on bashing him for this one. Dissing somebody for not saying a prayer, no matter how otherwise dissable he is, just doesn't work for me.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 08:25 AM

80. I agree.

I'm not going to criticize someone for not saying a creed. Maybe he couldn't see it; maybe he didn't believe in it. In a situation where you have people in a service who come from a variety of religions, you're going to have some who see and hear things that they don't really agree with. There's nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't have said it, either.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:03 PM

9. Am I correct that the prayer was in the program?

All Trump had to do was read the prayer from the program. Is that correct?..I am not Christian, a totally different religion. I could have read most of it out loud, looked at it, when it came to words I didn't want to say, I could have shut up. At least looked like I was interested. I don't know what was in Trump's mind. What ever is up there, it sure isn't spiritual or religious. One word describes it completely....."evil."

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:04 PM

12. Stuff like this is always printed out in programs like these.

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:27 AM

44. The others in the row were reading it from the program.

Only Mr. and Mrs. Dumbfuck sat there in stony silence.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:07 PM

14. He looks very angry that he is there. Should've stayed home.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:08 PM

15. It is not a prayer, but a creed or statement of faith. Christians don't believe in making people...

say this statement against their will.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:12 PM

17. No doubt it was in VERY LARGE TYPE given the average age

Of the living prezzies.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:18 PM

19. I hope all the trump humpers who believe Obama is a secret Muslim

choked on their hatred and ignorance.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:49 AM

50. Isn't it ironic?

There were the Obama Cryptomuslims testifying to their faith in the Lord Jesus, while the champion of the Evangelicals and his wife just sat there in stony silence.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:18 PM

20. Trump is the anti christ, so no surprise to me.

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Response to iluvtennis (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:44 AM

32. He just might be.

I know people who believe sincerely that he is the anti-Christ.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 06:31 AM

36. I would dispute that he is a Christian

He does absolutely nothing thats appears to follow the teachings of Christianity. I'm not sure one must attend church to have a faith but when was the last time there was any footage of the Trumps darkening the door of a church? No religious test is required to be the president unless right wing radio determines one is a Muslim. I'll never understand how the religious right squares their support for him with their faith, and I work with a lot of them who seem like good and faithful believers.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 07:02 AM

38. He's not a Christian. He's a hypocrite. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 08:54 AM

41. Can't think of many things that matter less

And it irks me that the Washington Post thinks this is news.

Sorry, but this is trivial.

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Response to MissMillie (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:50 AM

62. I know Trump's religious hypocrisy isn't precisely *news*...

... as anyone who actually believes he's devout or has spent much time in church, missed him referring to Communion as "a little cracker and a little wine" and saying the title of a certain Bible book wrong.

But the hypocrisy of more such demonstrations after attacking Obama as being a closet Muslim (which shouldn't have mattered anyway, we're not supposed to have a religious test for public office, etc), and the fact too many people who voted for Trump claim to have done it because they, at least, are Christian....

That's not precisely trivial. It's sad as hell.

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Response to moriah (Reply #62)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:52 PM

67. It is sad...

...but it's not news. He shows all kinds of hypocrisy every day.

An how or whether or not any public servant chooses to worship matters very little (or should matter very little) in the every day lives of the American voters.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:03 AM

53. They didn't sing either.

The antichrist would not be able to mutter words to God. Oh wait, that's what the wing nuts said for 8 years about Obama, the Muslim! Who recited the prayers AND sang the hymns!

The Nicene Creed is generally said at Mass, but sometimes the Apostle's Creed is said in its place. It also is the first prayer when saying the rosary. If the "so-called" first lady is Catholic, she should know both. And besudes, they had the words in the programs in their hands!!!

Christian, my ass! His God is himself and the only thing he worships is money. PERIOD!! I am surprised the roof of the cathedral didn't cave in!

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:30 AM

59. Proves to me he really can't read. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:35 AM

60. as an atheist, I'm ok with Trump not reciting that junk

as a human and an American citizen, I am disgusted by that piece of shit.

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Response to RussBLib (Reply #60)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:41 PM

66. He doesn't believe it, but when has that stopped him from lying before?

A funeral service is not about oneself (although tRump could never comprehend that). It is about the deceased and their family. I see no problem in following along, as best one can, with the service. I don't see a problem with him not saying anything either.

I do think it is hypocritical of him to claim to be religious when he clearly is not.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:59 PM

69. It pretty much defines what it is to be a Christian

The Apostle's Creed is a simplified version of the Nicene Creed (slight differences, but they don't contradict each other). It's an affirmation of what it means to be an orthodox Christian, and what Christians are expected to believe.

I go further and maintain that one can not call oneself a Christian if one does not accept it in its entirety as faith, despite what a lot of self-proclaimed evangelicals claim, and that's why I don't think Mormons are Christians, but that's a whole other discussion.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 08:45 PM

73. His obvious atheism is one thing I don't have a problem with.

The problem is with his lying and pretending to be religious and the idiots who canít see through the fact that heís very obviously lying about it.

The actual dismissal of mythology itself is a point in his favor. He should own it.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:40 PM

77. We should not use this as an issue. I was forced to recite to mouth those words for...

years when I was a child. I will not recite them now for any reason.

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