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Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

Bernie Sanders on Andrew Gillium and Stacey Abrams: Many Whites 'Uncomfortable' Voting for Black...

Source: The Daily Beast




Bernie Sanders on Andrew Gillium and Stacey Abrams: Many Whites 'Uncomfortable' Voting for Black Candidates

The progressive leader says Democratic senators who lost in GOP states should’ve been more like Beto O’Rourke, and that race may be responsible for near-misses in the South.

Gideon Resnick
11.08.18 10:05 AM ET

Democratic officials woke Wednesday morning searching for answers as to why the party was unable to win several marquee Senate and gubernatorial races the night before. But for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) the explanation was simple. The candidates who underperformed weren’t progressive enough; those who didn’t shy away from progressivism were undone, in part, by their race.

“I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,” Sanders told The Daily Beast, referencing the close contests involving Andrew Gillum in Florida and Stacey Abrams in Georgia. “I think next time around by the way it will be a lot easier for them to do that.”

Sanders wasn’t speaking as a mere observer but, rather, as someone who had invested time and reputation on many of the midterm contests. The Vermonter, who is potentially considering another bid for the presidency in 2020, mounted an aggressive campaign travel schedule over the past few months and endorsed both Abrams and Gillum. He also has a personal political investment in the notion that unapologetic, authentic progressive populism can be sold throughout the country and not just in states and districts that lean left.

Surveying the victories and the carnage of Tuesday’s results, Sanders framed it as a vindication of that vision. The candidates who performed well even in loss, he said, offered positive progressive views for the future of their states, including Gillum, Abrams and Texas Democratic Senate candidate Beto O’Rourke. Those who were heavily defeated, Sanders said, didn’t galvanized young voters, people of color and typically non-active voters.


Read more: https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-on-andrew-gillium-and-stacey-abrams-many-whites-uncomfortable-voting-for-black-candidates?ref=home

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Reply Bernie Sanders on Andrew Gillium and Stacey Abrams: Many Whites 'Uncomfortable' Voting for Black... (Original post)
DonViejo Nov 8 OP
RandySF Nov 8 #1
ananda Nov 8 #2
zonkers Nov 8 #4
brush Nov 8 #7
tymorial Nov 8 #27
agingdem Nov 8 #31
tymorial Nov 8 #33
agingdem Nov 8 #43
brush Nov 8 #44
dameatball Nov 8 #52
brush Nov 8 #58
dameatball Nov 8 #60
Sunlei Nov 11 #116
True_Blue Nov 8 #101
delisen Nov 8 #73
trueblue2007 Monday #135
tazkcmo Nov 8 #53
delisen Nov 8 #70
Sunlei Nov 11 #115
jrthin Nov 8 #3
marylandblue Nov 8 #5
PeeJ52 Nov 8 #6
deurbano Nov 8 #24
TexasBushwhacker Nov 8 #34
apnu Nov 8 #39
brush Nov 8 #45
apnu Nov 8 #87
LiberalLovinLug Nov 8 #77
apnu Nov 8 #85
lovemydogs Nov 8 #35
mcar Nov 8 #8
ismnotwasm Nov 8 #9
mr_liberal Nov 8 #12
mcar Nov 8 #13
mr_liberal Nov 8 #16
lovemydogs Nov 8 #36
dawg day Nov 8 #65
rockfordfile Nov 8 #63
Pisces Nov 8 #22
delisen Nov 8 #71
tymorial Nov 8 #30
Me. Nov 8 #55
mcar Nov 8 #79
mr_liberal Nov 8 #10
Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 8 #11
David__77 Nov 8 #15
MissMillie Monday #121
R B Garr Nov 8 #20
qazplm135 Nov 8 #40
Polybius Nov 8 #108
DonCoquixote Nov 8 #14
Pisces Nov 8 #23
wryter2000 Nov 8 #29
David__77 Nov 8 #17
GeorgeGist Nov 8 #61
Nitram Nov 8 #18
ehrnst Nov 8 #25
SunSeeker Nov 8 #49
Gothmog Nov 8 #90
Post removed Nov 8 #19
NurseJackie Nov 8 #21
MontanaMama Nov 8 #26
beachbum bob Nov 8 #28
lovemydogs Nov 8 #32
TexasBushwhacker Nov 8 #37
lovemydogs Nov 8 #41
brush Nov 8 #46
Adrahil Nov 8 #50
Nitram Nov 9 #110
lovemydogs Nov 8 #38
emulatorloo Nov 8 #42
brush Nov 8 #48
Adrahil Nov 8 #51
Donkees Nov 8 #95
Nitram Nov 9 #111
Wintryjade Nov 8 #47
Me. Nov 8 #59
Wintryjade Nov 8 #69
Me. Nov 8 #72
Wintryjade Nov 8 #75
Me. Nov 8 #80
Wintryjade Nov 8 #83
Me. Nov 8 #93
Wintryjade Nov 8 #94
Me. Nov 8 #96
Wintryjade Nov 8 #97
Me. Nov 8 #98
Wintryjade Nov 8 #104
Sunlei Nov 11 #117
libdem4life Nov 8 #54
comradebillyboy Nov 8 #56
libdem4life Nov 8 #66
dawg day Nov 8 #57
Tumbulu Nov 8 #88
andym Nov 8 #62
hopeforchange2008 Nov 8 #64
libdem4life Nov 8 #67
ehrnst Nov 8 #68
murielm99 Nov 8 #74
HopeAgain Nov 8 #76
Wintryjade Nov 8 #84
DinahMoeHum Nov 8 #78
Blue_Tires Nov 8 #81
Me. Nov 8 #99
tinrobot Nov 8 #82
Tumbulu Nov 8 #89
juxtaposed Nov 8 #86
bullimiami Nov 8 #106
MrsCoffee Nov 8 #107
TruckFump Nov 8 #91
Gothmog Nov 8 #92
Raven Nov 8 #100
guillaumeb Nov 8 #102
Mike Nelson Nov 8 #103
bullimiami Nov 8 #105
AnnieBW Nov 8 #109
Gothmog Nov 11 #112
ellie Nov 11 #113
Sunlei Nov 11 #114
geralmar Monday #118
dansolo Monday #120
geralmar Monday #125
dansolo Monday #119
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Eric J in MN Monday #127

Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:32 AM

2. Voter fraud and suppression is why.

Period

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Response to ananda (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:40 AM

4. Yes.

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Response to ananda (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:07 AM

7. The voter suppression was blatantly obvious.

Kemp purged tens of thousands of votes in the last years and actively tried to suppress votes just recently in majority AA precincts.

It's been all over the news. Why doesn't Sanders know this and acknowledge it?

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Response to brush (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:55 AM

27. I am tired of seeing his face, reading his name and reading his pronouncements

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Response to tymorial (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:15 PM

31. Me too

if you don't vote for a qualified candidate because he's black then yes you are a racist...period!!!

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Response to agingdem (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:23 PM

33. Yes indeed though I prefer liberal Democrat to qualified :)

Black Republicans are likely qualified to hold their office though I question their motivation for remaining in such a repugnant and horrible party. I am splitting hairs I know. Please take no offense

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Response to tymorial (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:25 PM

43. liberal Democrat goes without saying always

no offense taken...

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Response to tymorial (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:28 PM

44. I don't get black republicans either, or maybe I do. IHMO many...

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)

are opportunists who know that there's a niche in the repug party they can slide into and be "different".

They ignore the fact though that the repug party is the party of racists/white supremacists who will use them as evidence that the party isn't really racist.

They also ignore the fact that there's room for conservative Democratic in the party, but then they wouldn't be "different" and would have to compete with other African Americans and POCs who actually don't want to be in a party that welcomes racists and white supremacists.

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Response to brush (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:48 PM

52. But there are also people such as Colin Powell that had different backgrounds and histories than

some other people. I do not see where he was an opportunist. But in general you may have a point.

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Response to dameatball (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:03 PM

58. Point taken. But I doubt Powell or other moderate Republicans from an earlier...

time would be part of today's repug/trump party.

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Response to brush (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:07 PM

60. Absolutely. I believe he is an honorable man. His support of Bush/Cheney was disappointing.

but he is head and shoulders above the Trump crowd.

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Response to brush (Reply #58)

Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:59 PM

116. I'm always so disappointed with people like Powell(and McCain) they never step-up to speak

for "The People" of America. They'll take the truth to their graves.

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Response to agingdem (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:18 PM

101. +1000

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Response to tymorial (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:06 PM

73. A Vermont state legislator resigned due to racial harassment this year

I wish Bernie would address it.

<https://www.apnews.com/e7d6a41a335b477698e818cae7c4e032>

BENNINGTON, Vt. (AP) — Voters in this very liberal, very white state made Kiah Morris a pioneer when in 2014 they elected her as its first black female legislator. Two years later, another Vermont surfaced: racist threats that eventually forced her to leave office in fear and frustration.

After she won the Democratic primary for re-election to the state legislature in 2016, someone tweeted a cartoon caricature of a black person at her, along with a vulgar phrase rendered in ebonics. The tweeter threatened to come to rallies and stalk her, Morris said. She won a protective order against him but once that expired, the harassment continued, she said.


The harassment escalated into a break-in while the family was home, vandalism and death threats seen by her young son. Even after she announced she wouldn’t seek re-election, despite running unopposed, a group of youths pounded on her windows and doors at night, forcing her and her husband, convalescing after heart surgery, to leave town.

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Response to tymorial (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 04:14 PM

135. Me too.

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Response to brush (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:51 PM

53. Actually

It was HUNDREDS of thousands...grrrrrrr.

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Response to ananda (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:48 PM

70. Shallow analysis.Look at previous votes for Gov in GA-Jason Carter 44.8%

Jason Carter got 44.8 percent of vote in GA in 2014 less than projected. Jason is Jimmy Carter's grandson

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Response to ananda (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:55 PM

115. and a good dose of "uncomfortable American voters". a good point to discuss.

Bernie campaigned with Andrew Gillum in Florida and Stacey Abrams in Georgia. I bet they discussed those "uncomfortable voters" a lot.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:37 AM

3. If Bernie Sanders believes this, then why does he

not believe in identity politics?

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Response to jrthin (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:44 AM

5. Because identity politics scares white people, who then retreat to their identities

I read a brilliant insight recently- the first practitioners of identity politics in America was the KKK. Progressive populism can overcome it by emphasizes shared values that transcends race.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:00 AM

6. As a transplanted Buckeye Floridian, I agree with Bernie...

I believe that's what throws off the polling so much. As much as white people want you to believe they aren't prejudiced, once they get in the privacy of the voting booth their racist fears take over and they vote white. They probably even come out and say they voted Gillum in the post polling. I came down here to central Florida, out of high school, in the early 70's just as integration was taking hold. It was an eye opener for me... Still very racist here... I did vote Gillum though, honest...

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Response to PeeJ52 (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:41 AM

24. As someone born in the MS Delta and raised in CA's Central Valley, I agree with you, not Sanders.

He called them "not necessarily racist," but there is no other explanation for being "uncomfortable" about voting for candidates because they are black.

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Response to deurbano (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:28 PM

34. It's the "not necessarily racist" part that's bullshit

It IS racist to "feel uncomfortable". It may be involuntary and/or subconscious, but IT IS RACIST. As a 61 year old white lady, I recognize that my occassional, otherwise unexplained, discomfort with black people IS RACIST! I'm not proud of it. I do not defend it. I acknowlege it and do my best to work past it.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:44 PM

39. White people, like myself, were raised this way.

I was raised with prejudice and racism. Not overt KKK stuff, but "soft" racism like being told all black people are lazy and other disgusting stereotypes. That stuff sits in your psyche. I know, I spent years with it and had to come to my own reckoning about it. And still habits die hard.

That's what needs to change.

As much as America has been horrible and evil to non-whites, it has also been abusive to whites, teaching us this stuff.

The best I can do is remind myself that I'm not a racist and that's a choice I have to keep making every day. And teach my kids to not be racists too so the don't grow up damaged like I am.

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Response to apnu (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:31 PM

45. Good post. Thanks for this as a reminder that people have to work against...

how society indoctrinates whites with "soft" racism.

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Response to brush (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 04:29 PM

87. Thanks

We often talk about the burden of non-privileged people, but we don't often talk about how to change privileged people to create space. At least not in the post-university adult world I find myself in.

BLM and MeToo do a great job of interrupting the conversation and changing it so we have the opportunity to talk about these problems, but little is done or talked about on the topic of what comes next.

How do we change the culture so that black lives matter and sexual assault stops? Behavior hasn't changed. Its easy to raise a hand, but we can't wait around for someone else to fix it. We can't be content with just raising a hand and saying "Harvey Weinstein is a creepy rapist". Sure Harvey is out and jail bound, but has that stopped anything? No.

We have cultural problems to address if we are going to live up to the promise of America we all think is there. And that work will be the hardest America has ever done.

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Response to apnu (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:24 PM

77. Yes. I wish we could discuss this subject more on here

The nuances. Instead of it being a "black and white" issue, no pun intended.

Racism is such a vile extreme accusation. So because of that, no one who calls themselves liberal, or a Democrat, ever would admit, even to themselves, that they harbour any tiny bit of that. That even how you are raised, or from what community, has no affect on you in that regard.

Personally, I think most everyone has a bit of racism in them. Black, white, Asian, you name it. But "racism" is the wrong word for the scope it has come to be defined as. To put it another way....everyone feels uncomfortable, at least at first, in the company of people that are outside of their normal community. Whether its atheists in church, or vegans in a burger joint. Even between boys and girls when we were young. And that includes any person, of any color, who are raised ensconced primarily in their own community for their youth, and then leave that community, and are surrounded by people outside of their own culture they were raised in.

I was raised in an overwhelmingly white town in Canada. Its not unusual. As a child, if I ever saw a black person, it was an unusual event. They looked "different". But it was not because I HATED them for the colour of their skin. It was simply that I was not used to seeing human beings look or talk the way I was used to. And that experience did not mean that, as I matured, and lived in more cosmopolitan communities, that I not only was comfortble in mixed company, but made friends with people of all races and genders.

If we can't even admit we can get uncomfortable in the presence of what we see initially as the "other" and immediately jump to the word "racist", then how do we ever move forward? It does not mean we can't eventually mature, and get enlightened and completely comfortable with folks of all cultures and races.

I think this is a place to be able start the discussion, separating the normal human response to 'different', and an overt hatred and belief in a supremacy of other races over your own.

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Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #77)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 04:07 PM

85. Good points. There are a many sides and degrees in this.

I think many white people mean well but aren't equipped because we are indoctrinated in a racist America. We've never in our history really confronted it. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supposed to be the first step. Instead it was the only step. Instead of learning from it, many people were angry and resentful being exposed with this problem.

If we are ever going to change, and this is true for every 'ism', we have to change the broken people like myself. There are always going to be some people who won't change and thrive on hate, but that's really a small amount of the population. But the rest, there needs to be a path for those who want to change and someone with the patience to show them the way.

Waiting it out isn't going to work. I can tell you that we hand our traditions down to the next generation, and if those traditions are racist, be they "soft" or "hard" racism, they will be passed on.

Interesting aside related to your Canadian upbringing. A friend of mine, who's African American, who is in a mixed marriage and have a mixed daughter, lived in Singapore for a few years because of a job out there. Most people in Singapore had never seen a mixed black and white person before and they were fascinated by her curly hair. My friend tells me that old ladies would walk up to them out of the blue on the street and start pawing his daughter's hair with out even greeting them. They were that curious they threw every social norm out the window. It took him a while to figure out they didn't mean anything by it, it used to really freak him out. Eventually people in his neighborhood adjusted and stopped doing it, but his daughter must have been touched by a few hundred people in this way.

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Response to PeeJ52 (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:30 PM

35. There is an article today saying the same as you

People like a candiate and democratic ideas but, cannot bring themselves to vote for a minority once in the booth. Especially the first time.

They lets stereotypes seep in.
A minority cannot do the job the same as a white man.
A woman is not up to the job. Too emotional
Ect. ect.

This is not new. It's been known for awhile.
It's called the Bradley effect.
A ton of white people said they would vote for Bradley in Ca. decades ago and then the votes disappeared on voting day.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:11 AM

8. If they were uncomfortable voting for an African American candidate

They are racist.

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Response to mcar (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:13 AM

9. Exactly

What is so hard to understand about this?

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Response to mcar (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:18 AM

12. Some of theses people probably voted for Obama though. Gillum, and Abrams, was just too far left. nt

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:19 AM

13. So they voted for a RWNJ racist instead?

Sorry, that still makes them racist.

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Response to mcar (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:22 AM

16. Or just didn't vote because Gillum was too far left. nt

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:32 PM

36. It's called the Bradley effect.,

whites say they will vote for a minority candidate and then end up not doing so. They cannot bring themselves to vote for a minority
It's a known phenomenon.
It has nothing to do with being too far left or centrist.
It has to do with a white having a hard time voting for a minority or woman

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:20 PM

65. I kept hearing about the "Bill Bradley" effect --

this last week, and was so puzzled-- what does the white senator who used to play basketball have to do with anything?

Then I realized the reporters didn't realize it was about TOM Bradley, the former mayor of LA.

It was sort of amusing... we really need to understand the context of our catchphrases.

I had a young student who wrote about the need to take a "burr-sized view." (Birds-eye view.)

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:14 PM

63. Not true. Usually that's the excuse.

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:39 AM

22. No, Obama's half white so they felt more comfortable. Rascist is as racist does Bernie.

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:59 PM

71. Jimmy Carter's grandson only got 44.8% of GOV vote in 2014

and his winning opponent Nathan Deal had a big ethics problem.

Without voter suppression-which had increased in the four years since Abrams wound have won.

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Response to mcar (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:13 PM

30. If the voter and the candidate share political ideology and supports the candidate's agenda

Then yes I think it is fair to question motive. That being said, if a minority candidate with the political ideology of Clarence Thomas ran for office, hell will freeze over twice before I support him or her.

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Response to mcar (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:02 PM

55. JUst Like You Can't Be A Little Bit Pregnant

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Response to Me. (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:28 PM

79. Yep

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:16 AM

10. If you run a black candidate in a purple state they have to be a moderate.

Its hard for a liberal to win in a purple state, but add black to that and its almost impossible.

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:18 AM

11. Yup, I agree. n/t

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:21 AM

15. "Moderate blacks only."

"They have to be," huh? Lordy...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 07:41 AM

121. I agree w/ Zing, but...

(and I think I'm speaking for us both) it's not about our personal preference for a moderate candidate, but rather for a candidate that can win.

As much as I would hope that a progressive candidate could win, I don't have a lot of faith that enough purple state voters have overcome their racism.

I think Zing's statement is more about strategy than about personal preference. And as such, I agree with Zing.

I wish it were not so.

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:36 AM

20. Sure looks that way, not to mention, Gillum was forced to explain

socialism or at least the far left proposals that are currently circulating in ways that others have not been required to do. What a shame.

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Response to mr_liberal (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:45 PM

40. we ran a moderate white

he got almost the exact same numbers so that kinda blows up your theory doesn't it.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #40)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:21 PM

108. He ran against a far stronger candidate in Scott

No fan of Scott, but he's a tougher candidate and less racist than DeSantis. Nelson would have easily beaten DeSantis, and Scott would have easily beaten Gillum.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:20 AM

14. Bernie thanks for reminding many of us brown and black people

Why you did not earn our trust, and likely never will. Stop trying to provide cover for the people who say "they are not racist, but I cannot vote for..."

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:39 AM

23. Exactly

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:11 PM

29. This crap

P*sses off this white person, too.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:25 AM

17. I do NOT think Sanders should adjudicate who's not racist in this manner.

"who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable..."

I don't like this line at all. I get it - and, I don't like it. I think my mother has discomfort with the idea of black candidates, and she also considers herself quite liberal. I don't think she needs to be excused as "not necessarily racist."

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Response to David__77 (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:09 PM

61. Sounds to me that Bernie believes white privilege ...

is something to still respect.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:29 AM

18. I'm sorry, but that sounds like confirmation that Bernie doesn't really undersand racism.

What could be more racist than not voting for a black Democratic candidate because a voter feels "uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American"

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Response to Nitram (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:43 AM

25. +1000 (nt)

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Response to Nitram (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:40 PM

49. Exactly. And don't be sorry to tell the truth. nt

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Response to Nitram (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:05 PM

90. Agreed

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:37 AM

21. ...

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:52 AM

26. So the people

who might be uncomfortable electing POC to positions of power chose to vote for RW racist assholes who used racism as a tool in their campaigns. Definition of fucking RACISTS. Bernie. Stop just stop.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:07 PM

28. What is bernies definition of many, I call him on his bullshit

It's SOME...

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:22 PM

32. I've thought the same thing

I just read an article on Huffington Post saying the same thing. People love democratic ideas but, not the candidates because they are not white and male.

I find it strange in this day and age. My first vote was cast for Jesse Jackson as President. So, this old white female in Illinois has been voting for all kinds of people. My husband and I even drove 3 hours to Springfield Il, to hear Obama announce for President in 9 degree weather,

But, some whites just cannot bring themselves to vote for a minority.






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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:33 PM

37. Bernie, substitute "Jew" in this scenario

and tell me again how it's not racist. Of course it's racist. It may not be alt-right, Nazi salute, white sheet wearing racist, but it's STILL RACIST!!!

I love Bernie, but when he says things like this, it pisses this old white lady off.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:45 PM

41. It's not outright racism. It's more about some old deep attitudes.

They don't hate blalcks or minorities but, cannot bring themselves to vote for a minority for the first time.
It's especially true the older a person is when they are faced with it.

They come from a time when politicians were white and male.

It happens when voting for women as well. Some people would not vote for Hillary because they thought a woman should not be President or could not handle it.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:37 PM

46. It's still racism, no matter how the individual or Sanders tries to justify it.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:44 PM

50. Yeah, that's still racism.

The reason racism is so insidious is exactly BECAUSE of these "old deep attitudes." That's what systemic racism IS. It doesn't require you to wear a sheet or wave the Confederate flag. It just requires that you be "uncomfortable." There are degrees of racism for sure, but it IS racist.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #41)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 08:18 AM

110. It's racism. Unconscious, perhaps, but racism nevertheless.

The unconscious kind is the most pernicious.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:41 PM

38. I think some here are letting their strange hate for Sanders blur them to facts.

The phenomenon is known as the Bradley effect.

It came when Tom Bradley ran for office in California:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

However, there is this strange hostility to anything Sanders says or does. This viseral hatred is beyond their dislike of Trump.
You can dislike a person but, the hate is beyond reason.
I don't understand it and never will.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:55 PM

42. I like Sanders. He says dumb shit sometimes. "What Bernie REALLY meant to say" doesn't cut it here

“I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,”

One can’t really explain his statement away by claiming he was REALLY talking about the Brady Effect, sorry.

Claiming that people who take issue with this statement only because they “hate” Sanders is problematic as well as far as I am concerned.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:38 PM

48. Come on, The Bradley Effect is still racism. See post 39 below.

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:45 PM

51. You can still like him. This was an incredibly ignorant thing to say, regardless. NT

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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:01 PM

95. There's an audio of the interview. In context, he discussed the ramping up of racism and hate ...

in the campaign and in this administration.


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Response to lovemydogs (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 08:21 AM

111. lovemydogs, you are imagining things. Calling out racism does not mean we hate Bernie.

How do you see hate in a suggestion that Bernie doesn't understand racism? Your unconditional love of Bernie has blinded you to the obvious.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:37 PM

47. I read this on another thread, and the more I think about this, I have to ask, what is his point?

Why is he making this specific statement. Personally I think it is all about bigotry and even in his convoluted manner of justifying it, it still smells of racism. But, why is a supposed Democratic possible making this statement here and now?

I am not liking the conclusions I am drawing from this statement. I am not liking what he is trying to create for the 2020 run. We really do not need more excuses to exclude POC and women, especially within our own party.

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Response to Wintryjade (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:06 PM

59. For One

I don't view him as a possible Dem candidate, those spaces are reserved for Dems only and as he has told us many times over, he's not a Dem. Further, I think he has finally reached his sell-by date. Though I don't actually think he's serious about a run, he must certainly know he doesn't have a chance. My thought is that he's in it for the money.

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Response to Me. (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:29 PM

69. He is not a Democrat. Sanders states he isn't a Democrat. D is not behind his name, I is.

He becomes a factual Democrat with a D when he runs for a race.

I get that you do not consider him a possibility, but, he must. Or, he is running as third party.

I, as a Democrat; the base of the Democratic Party, would like to know exactly what party he is running as.

I really do not think that is too much to ask, two years out. Opposition or Allie. We have to know. We have work to do. We finished with 2018. Next is 2020. Sanders is presenting himself as a candidate for 2020. We should get to know what party he is running under.

My ACA matters to me.

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Response to Wintryjade (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:06 PM

72. He Will Never Say Until It SErves HIm To Do So

I have to disagree about him running as a DEm, I think such a dust storm would be kicked up if that was tried again. Also, someone who is always bashing DEms is not an ally not now and not in 2020. His insults are not a sign of affection. But given his missteps lately, with the recent racist one, I don't think he has a chance.

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Response to Me. (Reply #72)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:22 PM

75. But, this is not about Bernie Sanders. It is about our Democratic Party and the 2020 race.

I really do not care what Sanders wants. Identifying his party is a given. It just is. He has to state his party. Democratic Party has to allow him to run. There are questions to be had.

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Response to Wintryjade (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:32 PM

80. I Don't Quite Get Your Point Then

He has said he is an INdie over and over and over and while there is no formal party for that, there is a place on the ballots for those with that stated preference.

But as I said I don't think he's actually in it to run but for the money, all those fundraising emails he sends out. Ca-Ching, Ca-Ching.

I want to win next time around and that isn't him.

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Response to Me. (Reply #80)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:43 PM

83. My point. Sanders must state now if he is running and what party he expects to run with.

The Democrats need the opportunity to say no, then we see if it is third party. If it is third party that Sanders is running in, he is the opposition and no longer a part of our coloration.

That Democratic Party is owed that basic courtesy. The Democratic Base is owed that basic courtesy. To know if a candidate is an ally or foe.

That is my only point. When we have this information, we can address the rest. I personally do not feel that Sanders has a chance with the Democratic base. His comment about racism simply cements that.

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Response to Wintryjade (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:31 PM

93. But You Keep Insisting It's His Choice

It isn't so it doesn't matter

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Response to Me. (Reply #93)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 07:12 PM

94. It is his choice if he runs or not. Right?

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:07 PM - Edit history (2)

I am not totally confident the Democratic Party will say no if he decides he wants to run as a Democrat again. I want them to say no. I do not always get what I want, though.

Also, an edit here. But then, I was listening to another Democrat pondering that even if he runs as a Dem, he does not have the vote. I prefer he not be allowed to run as a Democrat.

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Response to Wintryjade (Reply #94)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:06 PM

96. He Can Run

Though I think he won't but the choice of running as a Dem will not be his. He is not the end all and be all and the final say on his running as a Dem will not be his.

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Response to Me. (Reply #96)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:08 PM

97. Ok. So all I am saying is I would like that conversation now as opposed to later.

But I am agreeing with you on your stance and position. To be clear.

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Response to Wintryjade (Reply #97)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:11 PM

98. Who Knows If There Will Be Any Conversation At All

he's not helping himself being a gadfly and flapping his mouth in unfortunate ways. Fact is he's becoming shopworn.

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Response to Me. (Reply #98)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:29 PM

104. You got that right.

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Response to Wintryjade (Reply #83)

Sun Nov 11, 2018, 09:07 PM

117. Hey Bernie & Hillary you're going to team-up early 2020 primary & let us D voters

decide who will be President & who VP by our Primary votes. We'll ALL be engaged with the Dream Team.

you read it here on DU first!, Sunlei 11/2018

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:53 PM

54. Fred Astaire (I think)..."Both women and men can dance.

But women have to do it in high heels and backward." Some things may likely never change...at least until we have it switched to men dancing in high heels and backward????? Sounds kind of silly?

Same goes for POC. Western European Patriarchy is white and male. We're caught in a multi-millennial cultural phenomenom. Change is always gradual, but it is inching its way along the timeline of history.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:03 PM

56. Ginger Rogers, Fred Astair's dance partner.

'After all, Ginger Rogers did everything that Fred Astaire did. She just did it backwards and in high heels.'

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #56)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:25 PM

66. Thanks. I knew it went something like that. Still too true. n/t

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:03 PM

57. Obama won a whole lot of votes...

... a majority twice.

And in his first and only national elections.

Just a reminder. I know sanders is predicting next election these "uncomfortable white voters" will be more open, but all over the country, that's already happening. Women, minorities, women of color, gay men and women, all won all over the country (including in Kansas!).
I'm glad they didn't wait. I think maybe if more older established candidates-- incumbents-- would step aside and wholeheartedly endorse and mentor younger candidates, that will be accelerating another blue wave.
(And I'm almost as old as Bernie. There is a time to step aside and let the younger people have their chance. They're too polite these days and won't just shove us out of the way like WE did in the 70s and 80s.)

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Response to dawg day (Reply #57)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:01 PM

88. yes, glad that this got pointed out

although, why did it take so long?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:11 PM

62. Is it true that some white people are uncomfortable voting for African Americans?

Certainly. The next question is how many are conscious of it, and how many are not? The conscious ones are overt racists and for the most part irredeemable (although George Wallace post-shooting is a counterexample), the unconscious ones are bigoted without knowing it, or knowing it only subconsciously. Of this latter group, the key question arises how many would change their votes and more importantly their perspective, if a mirror were held up to them revealing the truth? Hopefully the answer is some. Then how can they be made aware that they are not perceiving and acting fairly? That is the key. Not everyone can be changed but it is important for America's future that as many people act as unprejudiced as is humanly possible. Obviously, subconscious bigotry has negative effects socially that go beyond elections and helps to degrade the civility that is required to maintain the USA.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:16 PM

64. And there are many women who are uncomfortable voting for a woman. /nt

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Response to hopeforchange2008 (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:27 PM

67. As a Boomer...I remember "Stand By Your Man". HRC got caught up in that one.

Baking cookies and all.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:29 PM

68. Imagine if Hillary had said that.

The fur would fly....

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:15 PM

74. This is the same as saying,

"I'm not a racist, but..."

Or, "Some of my best friends are black."

This is apologizing for racism. I am glad that he is not an actual Democrat. He should be embarrassed to say such a thing.

Black people have been running for office for many years. How is there anything new about black candidates?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:23 PM

76. I want Bernie's socialism without Bernie. eom

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #76)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 04:03 PM

84. The Democrats push "Bernie's socialism" every single day and for years. Well before Sanders,

on occasion.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:25 PM

78. ". . .first time in their lives. . ." ???. Excuse me, but. . .

. . .I didn't notice Barack Obama was white.

If Bernie wants the help of the Democrats, then he should actually join the Democratic Party and shed the "Independent" BS label for permanently.

Otherwise the Democrats damn well better not allow Bernie into the party after this remark.

If he wants to run, let him do it as an Independent. No more glomming on to the Democratic Party for his supporting cast.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:34 PM

81. No hate, no snark, just a serious question:

Bernie Sanders has been on the *national* stage for three solid years now... Why does he remain so inept when it comes to winning PoC (aside from the college kids) over to his side?? Why does he still have chronic Foot-in-Mouth disease when discussing race? (Remember, this isn't the first offense from him and the people in his advisory circle). Why is he so obsessed with coddling Trump voters, as if they will somehow magically not be racist anymore and vote straight Dem if only the old toaster oven factory could came back to Iowa Falls? Why have no lessons been learned whatsoever??

Sanders has pretty much had the stage all to himself for TWO YEARS as a presumptive, likely-to-run candidate for 2020 and even with the universal public belief that he'd crush Trump (who has only gotten less popular) head-to-head, why does it feel like he's regressing instead of in the ascendancy?? Who the hell is advising him?



(And I voted for Sanders in the VA primary, so skip it...)

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #81)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:13 PM

99. ShopWorn

Been on the stage too long

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:39 PM

82. Because nobody voted for Obama?

Jeez... Bernie.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #82)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:02 PM

89. yes, right? NT

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 04:23 PM

86. Bernie keeps hitting the nail on the noggin

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #86)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:42 PM

106. And he keeps hitting the nail with his noggin.

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Response to bullimiami (Reply #106)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:06 PM

107. Exactly.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:12 PM

91. I am white and old.

I have not seen the color of anyone for a very long time. I just have no problem with people who are not exactly like me. They don't scare me and, in fact, I love to find out new things because I have spent time talking to someone who looks different, sounds different, or both. I have friends who are old, young, gay straight -- even Republican! I know Trump lovers and haters and all in between. I just have no problem with differences. I think it would be awful if we were all alike. Very boring.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:17 PM

92. sanders will get far less support than in 2016 if he runs

sanders will not get any meaningful support from key demographic groups if he runs in 2020. These comments will seal sanders chances of getting support from key groups in the Democratic coalition

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:15 PM

100. Speak for yourself, pal, not for me. n/t

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:23 PM

102. Undeniable. The GOP is the party of racists. eom

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:27 PM

103. I'm not sure what...

Bernie is trying to do, here... maybe he's trying to appeal to Republican voters for 2020? Whatever it is, it won't work... he will lose more than he gains...

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 08:41 PM

105. Sorry Bernie.

Not voting for them just because they are Black is the Definition of Racist.

They may want to do a little introspection and stop excusing themselves.

It may not be Overt Racism but it is "on the spectrum".

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:29 PM

109. Add Ben Jealous to That

Granted, Jealous wasn't that great of a candidate. But a lot of white people here in Maryland may live next to black people, work with them, and socialize with them. But, get them behind the voting screen, and they're not comfortable voting for one. Even after voting for Obama twice.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2018, 04:01 PM

112. It seems that some of sanders progressives were the margin of victory for DeSantis

It seems that a sufficient number of sanders progressive base decided that they could not vote for a true progressive like Gillum and instead voted for white independent candidates. These votes appear to be DeSantis margin of victory


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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2018, 04:03 PM

113. We call those people

racists.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:45 PM

114. I agree nexttime it will be easier for Andrew Gillum in Florida and Stacey Abrams in Georgia.

We Ds have to make sure every ballot is counted, everyone gets their VOTE.

Was so close those races, and both Georgia & Florida had way to many 'problems' with uncounted ballots to be just simple mistakes.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to geralmar (Reply #118)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 06:56 AM

120. We are talking about the general election, not primaries

Sorry, but the "unelectable" argument doesn't apply here. You are not only defending Bernie, but making his point for him.

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Response to dansolo (Reply #120)


Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 06:41 AM

119. This is all about campaigning for 2020

I think Bernie is planting seeds to argue why he should be selected as the Democratic nominee in 2020.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #122)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 01:36 PM

124. Dems continue to lose? Where the hell were you last week?

And the rest of your little rant is laughable to say the least. Those poor folks had to flock to Jack Pine so they could call Hillary the c-word.

Womp womp.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 01:18 PM

123. Neither Clinton nor Sanders nor Warren nor Deval nor Biden

Has any chance of winning the Presidency. They are all very old news.
Bernie said a racist thing.
Again.
Can we just move on?
There are serious threats to our Democracy.
Today.
Raise money for the recounts and Espy's campaign.

https://secure.actblue.com/donate/2018recounts

Thanks!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 01:59 PM

126. Please Bernie I beg you, get out of the way of some more viable Democratic candidates.

YOU ARE NOT A DEMOCRAT! Go away.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #126)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 02:08 PM

128. After this racial statement, I dare question his self professed claim as a 'Progressive Leader'.

This is Regressive. Not progressive.

I have no idea anymore as to what Party or political group he id's with.

Who exactly is he talking to with such statements?

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Response to Bfd (Reply #128)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 02:20 PM

129. Not any party I belong to.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #129)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 02:26 PM

130. Nor one I would ever belong to. I don't know what base he's speaking to, but its not ours.

It really is quite disturbing.
It took a moment of reactionary recoil before grasping the totality of what he had just said.

Eewwww



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Response to Bfd (Reply #130)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 02:32 PM

131. I knew the real Bernie would come out, and it did unfortunately.

We sacrificed Hillary for this guy.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #131)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 03:16 PM

132. An assault from the right & the left. In motion before HRC ever formally announced her candidacy.

The boys from the Ukraine were already 'all in'.

The sacrifice was both her & our country.
Some sick shite, huh.

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Response to Bfd (Reply #132)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 03:18 PM

133. Yep, and I'm not sure Bernie wasn't in on it.

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #133)

Mon Nov 12, 2018, 03:32 PM

134. He knew exactly what he was there for. We all knew it was odd.

He's a multi millionaire now, right?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

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