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Fri Aug 31, 2012, 04:46 PM

(UK) NHS rationing is putting health at risk, says doctors' leader

Source: The Guardian

The NHS is putting patients' health at risk by denying them drugs and operations because of growing rationing being imposed to save money, the new leader of Britain's doctors has warned.

The drive to meet demanding efficiency targets is so serious that the NHS is offering some GPs surgeries extra money if they send fewer patients for tests and treatment in hospital a move condemned as "morally wrong" by Dr Mark Porter, the British Medical Association's recently elected chair of council.

In his first interview since taking up the post Porter said the NHS was offering fewer and fewer services to patients and that many had been "cut out", often against doctors' wishes.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/aug/31/nhs-rationing-risking-lives-doctors-leader



Expect this story to come up in anti Obamacare attacks.

24 replies, 4130 views

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Reply (UK) NHS rationing is putting health at risk, says doctors' leader (Original post)
alp227 Aug 2012 OP
xtraxritical Aug 2012 #1
oldsarge54 Aug 2012 #7
SoapBox Aug 2012 #10
oldsarge54 Aug 2012 #22
SkyDaddy7 Aug 2012 #24
valerief Aug 2012 #15
riverbendviewgal Aug 2012 #2
dipsydoodle Aug 2012 #5
CountAllVotes Aug 2012 #17
Lydia Leftcoast Aug 2012 #19
CountAllVotes Aug 2012 #20
drm604 Aug 2012 #3
dipsydoodle Aug 2012 #4
drm604 Aug 2012 #16
bucolic_frolic Aug 2012 #6
TexasBushwhacker Aug 2012 #8
wordpix Aug 2012 #13
nolabear Aug 2012 #9
SoapBox Aug 2012 #11
DavidL Aug 2012 #12
cheapdate Aug 2012 #14
McCamy Taylor Aug 2012 #18
Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2012 #21
davidpdx Aug 2012 #23

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 04:56 PM

1. Well, like the USA, if they squanderd less money on useless wars the people could have some care.

 

The USA Department of Defense does not even know accurately how many military bases it has around the world, this is a fact! It does know that they have 181 military golf courses around the world. Welfare for the 1%.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 05:45 PM

7. FIrst of All

Define military bases. A twelve man listening post, is that a base? How about a bunker holding a squad or two? Define base. Second, golf courses are part of MWR (or whatever it is called this decade. Those are funded by the clubs, AAFES profits, and fees. And by the way, the military are not on welfare, nor are they the one freaking per cent. The problem with the Brits is that they are part of Europe, and they too have adopted a Republican type austerity plan. So in this case, lay off the military. You sure don't have a clue about it.

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Response to oldsarge54 (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:36 PM

10. I disagree...

I would like an honest answer about ALL bases, stations, etc. that we are paying for.

Simply saying "lay off" the military just raises monetary red flags.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 10:29 PM

22. Sorry, lost my temper

xtracritical made several anti-military comments that really offended me. I have a lot of patience (you try a decade as a middle school teacher), but that person pushed my button into the floor. That was as close as I get to foxtrot uniform address to a person.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 10:49 PM

24. Seriously?

The other poster was 100% correct about US military bases...When it comes to money wasted there are countless other more important issues than what defines a military base & how many there are. They were also correct about the fact Right Wing governments in Europe & the UK are pulling money from NHS when they should be pulling money from other sources the military being one of them.

Like you, I don't agree with the poster saying "lay-off" the military.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 07:48 PM

15. Too bad defense contractors make shit we don't need or want when they could be making things

that would help our country.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 05:18 PM

2. My son lives in UK

There is no problem at the moment. I believe an election will fix this.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 05:32 PM

5. Fix this how?

.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:09 PM

17. really?

When I was in northern Ireland a few years ago I ran into a woman that had a lump "the size of an apple" in her breast. She was on a waiting list for 6 more mos. waiting to see a doctor about this.

She is likely dead and gone by now.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 09:32 PM

19. But when I was in the UK a few years ago,

my landlady said that she had gone into surgery and chemo two weeks after her GP first suspected cancer.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 10:01 PM

20. This was in the north of Ireland

And said woman was a Catholic. Lots of prejudice there still like it or not.

I wondered if this was part of the reason she could not get any medical attention?

It was very sad, I remember that much.

Northern Ireland has the same health ins. system as is had in England.

It is not part of the EU.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 05:25 PM

3. According to the article the problems are at least partly caused by privatization.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 05:30 PM

4. That's excessive expenditure on PFI's

.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:06 PM

16. What are PFIs?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 05:38 PM

6. They're doing that here already

When my elder got old her GP did nothing. Stopped testing for diabetes.
I was told to monitor blood sugar. 98-113 was fine. Then came 129, that
was fine. Then 150 that was ok, 178 not to worry.

Now I see there is quite a correlation between Diabetes and Dementia and
Alzheimers. He got worse as a doctor as the years went by. Some should
hang it up.

He hardly ran blood tests. I think he was getting bonuses from the Big Insurers
for keeping costs down.

If you don't beg and plead and offer more money, you get no place. Should have
gone the alternative doctor route and pushed them to do more.

What we really need is a dialogue about old age and dying naturally. They all say
they don't want to die in a hospital hooked up to tubes. Yet many if not most wind
up there. Hospice is humane, but there are good ones and bad ones. Some are
admitted to hospice early, some far too late. Some are admitted so early that they
come out of hospice for awhile.

There is humane treatment, and some that is painful and just prolongs life and misery.

I suppose all should be able to choose. But it is expensive. And many reach a point
where an advanced directive is the guiding light, interpreted by relatives.

Not sure I want to be on that boat.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:15 PM

8. I agree about the dialogue

The thing is, you need to have the dialogue with your family before you get ill and you need to put your wishes in writing in the form of a living will. I think we have to question the wisdom of doing elaborate and expensive procedures and treatments on the elderly. Neil Armstrong underwent surgery for blocked coronary arteries on August 7th and died less than 3 weeks later. That was an expensive and risky surgery that ultimately didn't extend his life. At 82, how much could they expect to extend his life anyway?

I've lost both my parents. They were both on Medicare. My mother chose to discontinue chemotherapy because it wasn't helping anymore, even though her oncologist was willing to continue treating her. Of course she was willing. She was still getting paid by Medicare! My father died from complications following a massive stroke. One of his doctors told his wife that he would never recover, but she refused to accept that. So she let the other doctors put in a pacemaker, and then a feeding tube, and then when he got a 4th degree bedsore on his tailbone they did a colostomy and eventually put him on a ventilator. This was over a span of 4 months, about 6 weeks in ICU. I can't even begin to imagine how much Medicare was charged for my father to die. Not for him to live. That was never going to happen. For him to die. All I can hope is that he wasn't in any physical pain. There are doctors and hospitals who will treat and charge as much as they can to Medicare and Medicaid, even if it's not in the best interest of the patient. We as patients and caregivers need to make that stop.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 07:03 PM

13. same thing happened to my father, in ICU at Johns Hopkins 7 wks, gave operations & he died

First, dad went in for an op at age 82, feeling sick to his stomach for a year. They suggested a lung op (!) because they found "a spot." I had a bad feeling but dad and his wife went for it. My son had a major knee op at age 18 and it took him, a healthy kid in the prime of life, 3 months to recuperate, so I never thought dad should have the first operation.

Then he did not recover well and they gave him a pacemaker.

Then he ran a high fever and begged to be left alone and die but the docs told his wife there was a chance he could make it with an intestinal op because he probably had a c diff infection that was causing the fever. Wife had POA, no one would listen to me to just leave him alone and let's make him comfortable, etc.

So they gave the 3rd operation and soon after he died.

I will never EVER forgive Johns Hopkins for what they did. And that cost the taxpayers plenty. I saw ONE bill, it was $100K, and that was for only part of the torture they put my dad through. I could not help but think that since it's a teaching hospital, of course they would like the kids to learn how to operate on a real person and better an old man than a younger person.

I advise all out there: do not let your loved one get a major operation after age 80.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:34 PM

9. Cue GOP cherry-picking in 3..2..1...

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Response to nolabear (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:38 PM

11. ...ditto.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 06:48 PM

12. Are you taking this in the proper context?

 

The objections mentioned in this article are about LIMITATIONS for diagnosis and treatment, and PRIVATIZATION of some services.

In other words, folks, the doctors are sticking up for patients' needs.

Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary, said: "When the leading doctor in the land warns that the government has put the NHS on a fast track to privatisation then it is time for people to sit up, take notice and rally to its defence. The N in NHS is now under sustained attack."


From the same article:

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 07:43 PM

14. And in the UK they're having a public discussion about the problem.

Here, the insurance companies just fucked people over and few made a fuss over it. Were they profitable? That's all the "conservatives" cared about. Or 43 million uninsured just completely out of sight and out of mind.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:22 PM

18. Dudes, this is happening in the US. They call it "Managed Care."

This has been going on here for at least two decades.

If they give all the seniors a voucher to buy private insurance, the only insurance that will take them will come with "managed care" strings attached. We have all seen how blood thirsty private insurers are when it comes to denying care.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 10:20 PM

21. The Conservative government government will privatize the NHS

hopefully the Tories and their weird LibDem friends will be out at the next election

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 31, 2012, 10:47 PM

23. The conservative party here in South Korea was trying to do the same thing

with our health care. We have universal health care here and it covers everything except a small copay.

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